Can You Scout?

interesting concept crack

what jumps out to me is his bull rush and his ability to get off blockers in the run game . he looks like an every down player in the mold of our very own Bryan Thomas , solid but not spectacular . he looks like he could do a very good job setting the edge .
i think he needs to add some more moves and get a bit more violent with his hands at the next level . he also has a few bad habits when standing up that makes me think he would be better as a DE in a 4-3 defence .

follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16

Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland

by tinley24 on Feb 21, 2012 8:18 AM EST reply actions

also rec'd for a great idea . hope there are more of these posts on the way

follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16

Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland

by tinley24 on Feb 21, 2012 8:20 AM EST reply actions

same

absolutely fantastic idea. i just havent had the time to sit down and analyze it yet

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Feb 21, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions

I'll take a stab at it.

Vernon seems extremely quick of the ball, great at pushing his man into the backfield and holding point of attack; however he doesn’t disengage that great, has a problem dipping the shoulder to turn the corner, very raw with limited pass rush moves. will need time to develope into either DE or OLB since I don’t know how big this kid is. One thing I do like is his versatility since he lined up all over the place, reminds me of a less talented and raw Ingram.

by JETSFAN IN SC on Feb 21, 2012 8:42 AM EST reply actions

I just looked him up at draft scout

Not bad If he can run his 40 anywhere in the 4.65 range I’d say late 2nd day or early 3rd, although he could be a bit of a knucklehead.

by JETSFAN IN SC on Feb 21, 2012 9:10 AM EST up reply actions

I like this idea, here goes:

Vernon has average strength, and can get a nice burst with his good speed off the snap of the ball. He plays low, but cannot really take advantage of it because he is n’t very balanced and his athleticism is average at best. Cannot handle low blocks or even changing directions after the ballcarrier at times. When in good pursuit, Vernon is bound to make the tackle. His motor seems consistent, and he takes a good angle to the ball when necessary. However, he’s not very instinctive, which in my mind, separates him from the pack. Without smarts/instincts, he doesn’t do enough things well do be an elite prospect. This tells me that he should be a late round pick because of his upside. He isn’t dominate enough or enough of a playmaker to become a contributor at the next level immediately.

by JetKing55 on Feb 21, 2012 9:24 AM EST reply actions

Not really intriguing

He has a nice motor, a decent burst, a good frame, and a solid base, but his pass rush repertoire is extremely limited (bull rush, rip move… and that’s it), he doesn’t look that great in space, he’s not jump off the screen athletic, and he gets blocked too easily. Looks like a 5th rounder or later IMO. He was also slow to react on the read option plays.

I came away mildly impressed with Miami’s DT #98 Darius Smith, he was drawing double teams and holding his ground and at times pushing them back, though later into the clips he started to look less so. Perhaps he has stamina issues. He’s as big as a house though, 6-2 358 pounds.

by J-Nasty on Feb 21, 2012 12:07 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

Looking further into him and with his career production, I don't think I'd even bother dropping anything higher than a late 6-7th on him

Immature, terrible attitude, was suspended, only 9 career sacks over 3 years.

by J-Nasty on Feb 21, 2012 3:37 PM EST reply actions

honestly i wasnt particularly impressed

didnt think he had great burst, so-so awareness, not many pass rush moves. didnt see him dominate, although he was a factor a decent amt of the time. i think based on his size he’d a better 3-4 olb than a 4-3 de, but i think at his very very best he’d be a poor mans bryan thomas. we dont need that right now

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Feb 21, 2012 6:17 PM EST reply actions

Love the idea

Here’s what I took away from the clip. Nice size best fit is a 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE. He has a decent motor, chases down ball carriers. He doesn’t explode off the line and does not play with great leverage. He stands straight up on contact, never good regardless of what position you play. Versus the run he sets the edge pretty well, on the one option play FSU ran he seemed unsure of whether he had the QB or not. He’s pretty strong at the point of attack but still he doesn’t play with good leverage. Versus the pass he doesn’t use his hands consistently well but when he does show the ability to at times. Looks lost when dropping into coverage. He looks like someone that will test well at the combine ( I was surprised by how fast he was chasing down RB’s but doesn’t play with that same speed or explosion). He kind of reminds me of Vernon Gholston. I project he goes from 6-UFA. Again I love this idea, no fun if you cheat.

by RevisIsland&Alcrotraz on Feb 21, 2012 7:06 PM EST reply actions

I cheated

I couldn’t figure out who I was supposed to be watching so I went and looked up his jersey number. Then since I was already at a site, I just read what they had to say.

by CervezaVerde on Feb 21, 2012 7:17 PM EST reply actions

He really seems to get held a lot, which could prove benefitial.

Two of his teammates got to the ball carrier before he was halfway there on a majority of plays. Not encouraging. While he played hard to the end of every down, he looks slow and I disagree with those who say he will start as an every down player right away. Clearly needs to start situationally as a pass rusher. Could grow into an every down LB. Even though he was on the line or edge most plays, I don’t think he has a future as a DE in the NFL.

Seems to have a decent burst, seemingly better up the middle than on the edges. Probably my favorite part about the way Vernon plays ball in this video is how he never takes his focus off the ball carrier when up front, no matter how many people are blocking around him. That’s fantastic awareness. He also displayed not-so-fantastic awareness when he wrestled with the ball carrier on the ground for what seemed two minutes and didn’t seem to notice the ball had been sitting on the ground.

Others have complimented his motor, which seems consistent and at a pro level. At least in this he doesn’t seem to give up, which is good, but it’s not good that it’s his best quality. There’s something to be said for his push at the start of the play (call it burst, explosion, whatever innuendo you like).

Seems strong against the run and better at disrupting the backfield, he appears too large and slow to work far from the line. I’m assuming by his stature and speed that he will be a LB or line player in the pros and, in spite of his low jersey number. That’s pretty obvious from the contents of the video though, all his best work is up front.

He seems to do an excellent job taking the legs out from underneath his targets, but I think his tackling ability might not cut it in the NFL. His coverage was beyond awful, and even on running and pressure plays it was disturbing how far away 35 appeared to be from the point of downing by contact.

I’m probably exposing my ignorance and lack of technical/college ball knowledge, but this guy appears to be borderline UDFA status. I think a needy team may draft him in the seventh, or that the very earliest late sixth if at all. Absolutely no way he’s taken in the fifth or earlier.

Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
GangGreenNation.com

by Bro Namath on Feb 21, 2012 7:34 PM EST reply actions

I Have Mixed Feelings About This Kid but love this concept rec'd

The thing that stands out most positively about him is his hustle. He never gives up on plays. On one play, he was blocked to the ground, got up quickly, pursued the ball carrier and made the tackle. Sometimes he got caught up in traffic and a receiver or runner got through the LOS and into the secondary, and he took off after them, sometimes still making the tackle or assisting int he tackle.

He looks to have decent speed, but looks to me that he needs to get a lot stronger, develop better hand use, and learn some additional pass rush moves. All I saw was a bull rush or speed rush. No swim move, no spin, and on the speed rush, it was just straight ahead. I didn’t see him dip his shoulder and lean one time to get around the OT and to the QB. On one rush he got his hands up and may have deflected the pass. He didn’t jump which forced the QB to throw the ball. The pass was completed, but for a short gain.

The negatives I saw are that he seems to have trouble locating the ball at times, allows himself to get too caught up in traffic and doesn’t seem to have the strength or technique to disengage from blockers or quickly get through the traffic. His pad level needs some work so he can get more consistent leverage. His change of direction isn’t very good. He’s definitely not a “quick-twitch” type athlete. He also seems inconsistent. On one play he allowed a blocker to easily get to his feet and knock him down. On another, he successfully fought off a low block attempt. Sometimes he seemed to use his hands well, and at other times not at all. At times he seems to play out of control, off balance.

Positives are his motor, hustle, frame, and he looks to be a solid tackler. He also looked to be somewhat versatile. He lined up both as RDE and LDE and even sometimes at DT.

He looked fairly fluid in his back pedal dropping back into coverage, but then seemed to get lost and wasn’t near the receiver.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Feb 21, 2012 11:55 PM EST reply actions

Mixed Feelings 2 - You & Bro.....Kudos to Crack for setting this up...Excellent +++++

I’m not going to repeat a lot of the good work that Tinley, BroNamath, Joe and others have put on here to help Crack foster an opinion……just kidding you Crack. This kid has some good intangibles: got some naturally given physical tools in size – legs – length of arms(wingspan), presents a good initial burst against the pass…he does follow all plays but there is a short delay…works well from stance and from brief view I’d say he can hold his own when comes to manning the edge. what on the flipside – well those physical assets….he presents them too early in the passing situations….a) takes the power out of his burst by standing up straight aand he presents a much easier target to find and block for the O Line and especially the Tackles. I didn’t see much in moves either…looked pretty much..“Here I come”. He does follow through on the play but there seems to be a miss with his tracking mechanism….its a couple of steamboats slow with him picking up where the play is. Once located he gets there quickly.

I’d say that all things considered here and the other tangibles…character and his full play of work including sacks and all the other juicy stats I say 5th Round as he has somewhat “Project” scribbled on him. Basically he’s Work in Progress…and that’s not a bad thing to have.

"It's only through change we learn to grow".

by Canadian Jet on Feb 23, 2012 6:13 AM EST up reply actions

3-4

OLB/DE. Can handle himself well against a Tackle but with his quickness and speed would be better used in a versatile role….he could command a chip and then take that away by dropping into coverage. Looks as though he is explosive enough to stunt inside where his quickness could be of great advantage in disruption.

by Fernando47okc on Feb 22, 2012 12:52 AM EST reply actions

3rd and 7, 5:25 left...

look at him explode into the O lineman.

by Fernando47okc on Feb 22, 2012 12:53 AM EST reply actions

3-4 OLB

At first I was thinking Aaron Maybin 2.0 but then I saw that he’s bigger than Maybin and more able to both get around a block and to act against the run.
Positives: ability to get around blockers, seems to have good play-reading ability and manages to position himself near the play. Solid tackler.
Negatives: slow in pursuit and coverage.
Projected round: 5th or 6th.

"Wired into a different set of circuits from the rest of McWorld" (David Ignatius)
... and vaffanculo to all other jurisdictions!

Debe ser verde y volante - Πράσινο και να πετάει - It's gotta be green and it's gotta fly!

by Rabbit T on Feb 22, 2012 3:04 PM EST reply actions

So Crack

Where’s your scouting report? I’m curious to see what you think about him.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Feb 23, 2012 2:04 AM EST reply actions

Yah,,,

No holding out to the Draft in April to post your reply like last year…..or was it the year before? …..oooops my mistake Crack….you’re right this is a first go around…..but it just shows we’re really anxious to see your 2 cents worth.

"It's only through change we learn to grow".

by Canadian Jet on Feb 23, 2012 6:17 AM EST up reply actions

Ok, I'll give it a stab...

First, I want to thank everybody that participated. Its cool to see such a range of opinions from so many smart people.

I see a guy that has all the physical tools. He has prototypical size, very good athleticism, he has plus strength, good speed, seems to have long arms and legs. I think he’s a good piece of wood.

But why I find him intriguing is because his mechanics suck. He often seems slow out of his stance, gets his pad level high, doesn’t use his hands nearly enough (if at all), he doesn’t have any moves really. So why is a guy intriguing if his skills are so limited? Because he seems to win every snap anyway. A guy that does everything wrong in a legit D-1 football should be getting smoked off the ball. He shouldn’t be able to come out of his stance slow, high, without any hand technique, lets his man into his frame, and then proceed to push his man 5 yards into the backfield. Thats just not supposed to happen.

This kid is as raw as raw could be. But he dominates the guy in front of him with pure power and athleticism. He’s shoving around guards and tackles like they’re on skates. That impresses me.

I think this guy could beast as an OLB in a 34 defense. He doesn’t have a good first step, he doesn’t explode out of his stance, but I think his speed and long strides will allow him to close well if he gets leverage. And he WILL get leverage. I think if you stand him up on the edge, he’ll be really tough to handle. He’s got the speed to threaten OTs around the bend, and the power to bull rush straight through if they over-extend themselves. All this kid has to do, imo, is learn how to use his hands with violence and pick up a couple of moves. He’s not going to be any good in one-on-one coverage (who cares?), but the concept of dropping back into space and reading the QB’s eyes isn’t foreign to him. He’s very versatile and has been moved all over the front 7.

I like his tape a lot from about the 4:24 mark and on (particularly 4:49 where he actually uses his hands to beat a double-team out in space on the edge and makes the tackle).

I think his floor if Bryan Thomas. He’ll be able to set the edge in the run game with no problem, with an occasional spurt of output with the pass rush. I think his ceiling is pretty high, though, if he’ll take the coaching. With the right coaching and the right environment, I think this kid could be a really really good player.

by Crackback on Feb 23, 2012 10:47 AM EST reply actions 1 recs

Good Stuff, Buddy

Thanks. It was fun.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Feb 23, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions

Damn it I knew I waited too long

What sucks about not having regular access to a computer is that 3G internet sucks and makes watching YouTube videos a god damn hassle. So of course this morning I’m sitting around waiting for the ball-n-chain to get ready so I sit and watch this vid on my phone finally because I’ve wanted to do this for a while now. So I watched it, had all the mental notes ready and was gonna post but awp she’s ready time to go. And now that I have some midday downtime Crackback’s already posted up his thing. Bahhhhhh

ANYWAY basically yeah what he said. What struck me the most at first was just his straight up speed. He’s around the ball on 95% of the plays in that video including the pass plays down the sidelines. And then he’s knocking back linemen (especially the guards when he lines up at DT a couple times, the guys that are supposed to be the drive blockers) even though he’s pushing them back from their shoulders.

So obviously he needs a lot of work with technique but damn if he ain’t an impressive physical specimen.

by Exystence on Feb 23, 2012 3:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

Yup

I pretty much said all the same things. I like the perspective you’re looking at him from. I compared him to Gholston in terms of the measurables and raw strength but lack of technique. But yeah if he puts it all together he could be a monster. But like we learned with Vernon you can’t win in the NFL with just raw strength and speed.

by RevisIsland&Alcrotraz on Feb 23, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions

Keep this stuff coming loved it lots of fun great job! CB

by JETSFAN IN SC on Feb 23, 2012 6:32 PM EST up reply actions

Thanks dude. I think I’m gonna put up another one soon.

by Crackback on Feb 23, 2012 10:55 PM EST up reply actions

A few suggestions at OLB: Jon Massaquoi and Jake Bequette

by CervezaVerde on Feb 23, 2012 11:00 PM EST up reply actions

Those are both kinda known names though, no?

by Crackback on Feb 23, 2012 11:38 PM EST up reply actions

I mean, I know them enough to say I need to know more about them

They are right up the Jets alley but it begs the question why they are rated lower than the best known names. Just a suggestion because they are realistic for the Jets on day two.

by CervezaVerde on Feb 23, 2012 11:44 PM EST up reply actions

I like them both a lot. Might do something on them individually. But for the “Can You Scout?” thing, I’m kinda shooting for no-names so that people are less likely to have their opinions influenced by “experts.”

by Crackback on Feb 24, 2012 12:07 AM EST up reply actions

i'm just waiting for you to post

on a big bruising running back who nobody’s heard of to see our take on it….

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Feb 24, 2012 1:38 AM EST up reply actions

We got him, John Connor

Just need to run him behind Keller or Baker at H-Back

by CervezaVerde on Feb 24, 2012 1:52 AM EST up reply actions

Great concept!! Was fun to play and look fwd to nect chance.

"It's only through change we learn to grow".

by Canadian Jet on Feb 24, 2012 6:57 AM EST up reply actions

I have a feeling

He’s gonna put up huge numbers at the combine and his pro day and he’s gonna start rising on everyone’s radar. He won’t go up too high but I wouldn’t be surprised to see someone take him in the 4th round or so.

by Exystence on Feb 23, 2012 11:22 PM EST via mobile reply actions

Kinda late to the party, but great concept Crack

Ok, I was not overly impress with Vernon. he seem decent in his pass rush, but far too many times he took his self or was taken out of the play. I didn’t see a high motor at all times. Yeah I seen great hustle but not every play. He got off of blocks in the run game, but not so much when he was rushing the passer.
He bull rushed a few times, but not a good move when you are rushing from the outside unless you have Reggie White or Kris Jenkins power. The bull rush should be your last resort when you are an edge rusher. Which tells me, he needs work with his hands learning how to shed blockers. I’ve played DE and OL and unless you was extremely powerful and came off that line in an blink of an eye, I welcome a D-lineman/OLB to bull rush me. I felt you did my job for me, you help me stay in front of you. I feel this kid is doing the same.
I would pass on this kid. I see some potential, but not enough to beat a NFL O-lineman on a consistent basis. Really see him being an UDFA

by BIG OH!!!!! on Feb 24, 2012 7:47 AM EST reply actions

Same

Although I could see someone cashing in a 7th for him.

Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
GangGreenNation.com

by Bro Namath on Feb 24, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions

Vernon...

… would be a good fit for “Gang Green” and will be taken early in round 3 at the latest. I enjoyed watching the video as the other DE #71 is A. Chickillo (true freshman)who’s father(Tony) played at The U and also had a short stint with the Jets(put him on your futures list or watch again and focus on #71 and think true freshman). His Grandfather(Nick) was an All-American and played pro-ball as well(bloodlines). If we want him(Vernon to be OLB/DE) he will have to slip through the crack in round 2(late) and round 3(early) which could happen and I would be thrilled.

by keith.beckett2 on Feb 26, 2012 12:23 AM EST reply actions

the vast majority of draft analysts would disagree with you

personally I would be livid if we went above the fifth round for him, and even then I really don’t like it at all.

Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
GangGreenNation.com

by Bro Namath on Feb 26, 2012 8:59 AM EST up reply actions

Crack...

… UM had the Nations top efficiency rating on offense. With OT B.Washington,RB L. Miller and WR’s Streeter and Benjamin going in this years draft to name a few. Then there is the speedster from UF RB/WR C. Rainey who can fly as well as the two OT from FSU. Are there any players from my home state on your radar yet? We all know which side of the ball needs the most help, but I am thinking improved coaching will impact both lines next season and Shottys complex systems will be gone allowing players to play. Competition will be open at every position and Rex/Mark both mature allowing their best to shine through.
I am hearing the Jets say no way to an early OL pick which means V. Ducass/W. Hunter will compete for RT(slim pickins in FA)so hopefully this is the year for Vlad to bloom. Last season yielded a good pick at 16, this year will too. I have liked C. Upshaw all year and if he is gone someone else will fall . Taking Coples,Ingram,Richardson, Floyd or Hightower(BPA)all improve the team immediately. The needs are many but we must draft a safety and I like SS A. Allen in round two as he is capable of run stuffing and covering TE’s. When you find the time to scout these players please do a fanpost, the first paragraph has one player with a (late) first round grade. I also like P B. Anger as a late round pick. The second paragraph fills three needs, I am aiming for five players to contribute immediately. Current needs: OLB/DE,Sx2,WR,QBb/u,TE,K and P. If we lose FA without replacement the list grows i.e.(Pouha/Burris/LT) so I am thinking we need 5 FA and a HR with 5 drafted contibuters. I bring back B. Edwards and D. Lowery, sign TE F. Davis making D. Keller the #2 TE,those 3 FA p/u won’t break the bank by any means. I would love to sign Avril but am thinking it may not be feasable but we do have “The Baum” who is a cap genious. So I have found six replacements to improve the roster, help me locate the other six(we need depth)and we can celebrate the 2012 AFC East Title(this goes out to all fans of Gang Green).

by keith.beckett2 on Feb 26, 2012 1:38 AM EST reply actions

If we take him in the 2nd, I will flip the f*** out

This guy seems to completely struggle getting unblocked. Even with prototype athleticism (which I don’t see), if you can’t get off blocks, you won’t do much.

by J-Nasty on Feb 26, 2012 9:49 AM EST reply actions

Me too...

… and I would rather take another player in round three( Ioka or Streeter) depending on who we get in rounds 1 and 2. I am hoping it’s OLB/DE in the first (BPA) and SS in the 2nd(BPA) and WR in the 3rd(BPA). The thing about this is you never know what the teams ahead of you will do. If T. Richardson is there at 16 I would go RB and that is why the Jets should p/u a pass rusher,safety,receiver, tight end,OT/G and back up QB in FA. If LT is not resigned I would hope T. Richardson falls to 16, otherwise I start thinking about L. Miller and D. Wilson and hope one is there in round 2(or wait for one to go then move up to get the other). The more needs filled during FA allows greater flex-ability. It was not popular to let T. Jones or L. Washington go but it turned out to be wise moves in both cases as RB value goes.

by keith.beckett2 on Feb 26, 2012 2:04 PM EST reply actions