Analysis of Mike Tannenbaum as the Jets' GM - Finale Pt. 1

I appreciate the hard work and time put forward in these posts

But nobody could ever know which moves were gonna pan out. If you go and do posts on every other GM in the league, you will come up with the exact same stuff. I dont agree with every move Tanny has made (Thanks for the Barlow reminder, yuck) but overall he has been pretty good. Im very happy with him and look forward to his remaining on the job.

While he has final say as GM, lets also place some blame on some of the other guys on his staff too. Yes Terry, Im looking at you.

Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.

by YankeesJets on Feb 11, 2012 12:46 AM EST reply actions

sorry ill take mangold over ngata.

mangold is a guy you can build a line around. Ngata is a great player and an all star but still Mangold has more value at his position than Ngata. How many great centers do you hear of? 1-3? how many DT’s are great any given year about 5-8. I’ll take mangold over him slightly.
As for your other critiques. Some are very valid points. Especially the Tui pickup and also the barlow. the biggest mistake in my mind the last 5 years has been Mike T’s obsession with putting in unproven players into the offensive line. So far he’s 50-50 with Woody and slauson being good moves. The other two (hunter and adrien clarke were total disasters. I think thats my biggest gripe with him besides not getting any depth.

by sp0rtsfan86 on Feb 11, 2012 1:52 AM EST reply actions

I Think Probably 90%

of football fans would disagree with you. In general, C is not that important a position. You don’t have to have a Pro Bowler at C to have a very good and very effective OL. Ngata can take over games. Those types of players have a much greater impact on games than a C does. Ngata is the type of player you have to game plan and account for. Mangold isn’t.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Feb 11, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions

I have to disagree with you on that argument

Nick mangold is so good because he completely erases these dominant nose tackles from the game week in and week out, and pretty much anchors down the entire offensive line in general. And Center is a very important position, just take a look at what happened to the line when Colin Baxter went into the game.

by darshv3 on Feb 11, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions

That's Fine

but I disagree with your notion that Mangold “completely erases these dominant nose tackles”. He doesn’t. If he did, the Jets would be able to run it up the gut at will. Mangold’s good, but I think most Jets fans waaaay overrate him.

What happened when Colin Baxter went into the game happened because Baxter was a raw rookie with zero experience, not enough strength, size and quite possibly talent. That was more a product of how bad and inexperienced Baxter was/is. There has been a noticeable dropoff when Turner goes in for Mangold, but not nearly as drastic or severe. Look at other NFL teams. They don’t have Mangold, yet are able to run the ball effectively, if not better than the Jets and also able to pass the ball quite well, again perhaps better than the Jets.

In terms of players straight up and the importance of their positions, I’d take Ngata any day over Mangold and twice on Sunday. The only negative to having taken Ngata would be that we’d still probably be stuck with Mangini and wouldn’t have Rex.

As far as the center position itself, yes, it’s important, but not as important as the DE position either in NFL history or in the general thinking of most people in the NFL.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Feb 11, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions

Either way you can’t bash Mike T for drafting Mangold. I mean cmon, he got the best offensive lineman in football, you can’t kill him for not taking the who would end up being best player in the draft.

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by Ryan Alfieri on Feb 13, 2012 8:37 PM EST up reply actions

The Best OL in Football?

Come on, you can’t be serious.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Feb 17, 2012 2:00 AM EST up reply actions

Ngata was not that great this season. You could probably say Sione had a better year than him.

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by Ryan Alfieri on Feb 13, 2012 8:36 PM EST up reply actions

No real results

In Ts six years as a GM, we have only 2 players who are considered TOP talent In Mangold and Revis.That is not close to being enough. We have been through numerous qb changes, numerous coaching changes at all levels, and have not dedicated to building through the draft to sustain a winning team that can make it over the hump. Despite some flashes when new coaches came in (Mangini, now Rex), we havent been able to sustain the momentum and both times fell back to mediocrity with gaping holes. This reflects that we havent been maximizing through the drafts and have given up the most picks the last several years than any team. We have relyed on trying to hit the home runs and FA as the all solution which obviously it has not been. We have latetly took on other teams malcontents to try to patch up our holes and have let many of our top leaders walk. This backfired. I see an organization that has to get back to the core values of real building,. We are now in a hole as the quick fixes wear off fast when its all sugar and no substance. T needs a philosophy change in his approach. This season is critical as we will have many overpayed FAs being cut in 2013 and that combined with all our present gaping holes makes this draft huge. We need almost a flawless draft. That is the situation that one gets in with years of trying to make the big splash and with poor talent evaluation. All these needs just dont pop up overnight. While T might might not be the worst GM, he is very far from the best. Results only matter and I dont see them, just a team again with mass needs. Ts MO so far is show flashes and give some teases, but then right back to mediocrity with gaping holes. Lets just hope he hits the jackpot this year,I dont want to hit 50 years with no SB. I am not satisfied with just a acouple of flashes here and there that cant be sustained.

by joeyboy790 on Feb 11, 2012 2:56 AM EST reply actions 1 recs

+1

follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16

Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland

by tinley24 on Feb 12, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions

Agree 100%

by flixenuz on Feb 12, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions

+3 rec'd

Well said.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Feb 12, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions

Point consideration

Woody took control in 2000. In 12 seasons, The Jets are 98-94 and 6-6 in playoffs. Tannenbaum and Bradway switched positions @ GM under the new regime. Given the history of this franchise, there record is a huge improvement since Johnson bought the team. As for missed opportunities, in past drafts, all NFL teams erred. The Draft is a crap shoot. Overall, I’m satisfied with the team’s direction. Since Rex became coach, the team is transitional. The problem of depth can & will be fixed.

by boblivius on Feb 11, 2012 10:15 AM EST reply actions

I Understand & Accept That

Overall, I’m satisfied too, but is that really enough for you? It isn’t for me. I’m not content to settle for average or even slightly above average. I want the Jets to be great and dominant. They’ll never get there with Tanny as GM. Bank on it.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Feb 11, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions

Demeco Ryans can go f himself, I'll take Mangold

most other places we are in agreement.

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by Bro Namath on Feb 11, 2012 2:56 PM EST reply actions

Oh and the "could have dones" could be said about almost every single GM

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by Bro Namath on Feb 11, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions

Of Course They Could

That still doesn’t mean it’s not one way of looking at the GM’s effectiveness/job performance.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Feb 11, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions

And that guy

from SF, Baalke, did pretty well managing their 2010 and 2011 drafts, as well as handling their FA acquisitions in 2011. The Giants’ Reese did well too. We need the same level of performance from T this off-season. It’s possible…I’m just not that confident we’ll get it.

by elmoron on Feb 12, 2012 9:15 PM EST up reply actions

I don't think Baalke would be getting such critical acclaim

if the 49ers had not gotten so far this season. It would have been quite the opposite if they continued to slide under Harbaugh.

Fans have such short term memories. Mike T was almost universally praised when we were making our runs to the AFCC.

by PowerBar on Feb 12, 2012 11:34 PM EST up reply actions

I understand,

but that’s the point…the Niners did get far with some pretty good draft picks these last two years, including lower round value. I don’t care much for Harbaugh, but he did have some weapons at his disposal which provided impact, flexibilty, youth and depth. I can’t say that about our OL, S, WR, RB, even QB last season. I even thought Baalke pulled a better “Tannebaum” last off-season, ie; signing lower cost FAs who contributed and provided depth. As for short-term memory, I’ve grown progressively more concerned about T’s performance these last 3 years and dared to say so publicly on several Jets blogs. I was often immediately castigated for it. But you’re right, I certainly enjoyed the AFCCs. However, despite its inherent limitations, this series analyzing T’s performance, in as objective a manner as joeklecko has done, is both interesting and compelling.

by elmoron on Feb 13, 2012 1:19 AM EST up reply actions

Expanding on boblivius points above.

The GM works for the owner. I think people don’t give enough weight to how much Woody’s opinions and influence have on all the off season moves. Without going all the way back to 2000, the common cycle here seems to be trying to build a solid foundation, getting impatient and over valuing the talent we have, trying to bring in a few big name FA’s to bring us to a championship, only to have to re-tool when that fails. If anything, without nit picking and playing out a lot of “what if” scenarios, the fact that we have had only 23 draft picks in 5 years is the biggest reason why Tanny hasn’t done a good job. But how much of that is on the owner and how much is on him only they can say. If that patten doesn’t change we are not going to see much growth beyond being an average to above average team year in and year out.

by Traveling Man on Feb 11, 2012 7:08 PM EST reply actions

Good points.

by elmoron on Feb 12, 2012 9:16 PM EST up reply actions

I think a large point missed

is how much we were handcuffed under the final four rules.

by PowerBar on Feb 12, 2012 11:35 PM EST up reply actions

Sorry, That's Just BS

You need to let go of that. It’s patently not true. The final four rules only affect FA, NOT the draft, and Tanny shouldn’t be trying to build the team through big name, fat contract FAs anyway. You’re just showing your ignorance of how to build a team in the NFL. This isn’t Madden. It’s reality and there are consequences for actions.

There’s over 50 years of NFL history. Check it out and see how the best teams have been built. The last owner and GM who tried to build a team through signing big name STAR FAs was Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato. How did that work out exactly? A few other teams tried the same approach of trading away their draft picks for older veterans, and it was an epic fail with them too.

Maybe you and/or some other naive fans were universally praising Tanny, but not me. I knew the day would come when all those trade ups and signing over the hill FAs and over paying them was gonna bite the team in the butt, and it has.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Feb 12, 2012 11:48 PM EST up reply actions

sorry but when did I say we are to purely build through FA?

Whether you like it or not, those rules existed and did handicap our off season efforts for the past 2 years. One of them being 1 win away from the big game. Who’s to say that Tanny would have made so many trades if he weren’t handcuffed by those rules? Did you take that into account? I don’t remember reading about that.

We are not the Redskins and we do not scoop up every big name FA out there and sign them to horrible contracts. We’ve supplemented our draftees with appropriate FAs and Tanny’s been pretty good at working the cap. I’m pretty sure he saw these rules and worked around them.

Again, I’m not naively praising Tanny, I’m giving credit where it’s due. Kind of like Sanchez detractors, I’m not a Sanchez fanboy, but he’s not the sole problem. You act as if things are so cut and clear when evaluating and making player acquisitions when in reality it’s a crap shoot. In fact, one could say YOU’RE the one playing Madden. One player isn’t ranked 98 all the time for everyone to see and pick.

So if you think you’re such a hotshot at building a team, how about you make a mock draft and tell us exactly how good each player is, where they’ll land, and where they’ll be in 3 years. Then tell me how naive I am.

by PowerBar on Feb 13, 2012 8:45 AM EST up reply actions

There is None So Blind as He Who Will Not See

Whatever, dude. You obviously don’t want to think that he might not be as good as you think. That threatens or scares you in some form or manner.

The final four rules hindered the team some, but not nearly as much as you claim. If Tanny were more interested in building the team through the draft instead of quick fixes in FA, then the effect would have been even less. Again, his focus should be on building the team through the draft not constantly looking at FA as the quick fix. Yes, it’s a tool that can be used, but should be used only to supplement not fill the basic needs as Tanny tried to do. If you truly think that the final four rules hindered the Jets that much, then imo you don’t know squat about building a team and what makes a good GM or a bad GM. Try doing some research. Go back and look at how the great teams have been built and how the dynasties stayed at the top for so long. In addition, look at those teams who relied too much on FA and who routinely gave away their draft picks.

What about Nnamdi last year? What about LT? What about Calvin Pace? What What about Braylon? What about Brett Favre? What about Cromartie? They were all bigger name players either sought via FA, signed via FA or were traded for using draft picks. Then there’s also Lito Sheppard, Kevan Barlow from SF Tanny traded for, and probably several others I’ve forgotten about. That’s getting pretty close to the Redskins.

Giving credit where it’s due? How does being paralyzed by the final four rules deserve any credit? Other teams have been affected by the same rule, and it doesn’t kill their chances of improving their team.

Yes, the draft is a crap shoot and not all teams view players the same. All GMs miss, but the best ones get it right much more often than they’re wrong, and they building through the draft. They don’t constantly trade up or trade away draft picks, thus creating holes and depth issues.

I’m not a kid. I’ve never played Madden, nor had any desire to.

I don’t have access to the Scouting Dept. Info and resources that Tanny does, nor the experience working in the NFL, but I DO think I could do a better job than him putting a team together. I’ve been watching football for 48 years and have a pretty good eye for talent. One thing is for sure, I know a flawed philosophy and know bad work when I see it, and I definitely see it with Tanny.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Feb 13, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions

you really like to put words in my mouth

Whatever, dude. You obviously don’t want to think that he might not be as good as you think. That threatens or scares you in some form or manner.

I never said he was the best GM, nor did I say he’s the POS that won’t ever bring us the hardware. I’m merely stating he’s not as bad as you claim him to be and I know the majority of fans in general agree. Why an assessment of Tanny would scare me I have no idea…he has no bearing on my everyday life. You’re clearly grasping at straws here.

What about Nnamdi last year? What about LT? What about Calvin Pace? What What about Braylon? What about Brett Favre? What about Cromartie?

First of all, we never got Nnamdi. Second of all, unlike the Redskins, those moves helped us get to the AFCC and we’ve never had a season under .500. For all the fail that you attribute to him, many other GMs have gone under .500 for more than 1 season. They’ve all been productive and contributive players unlike those for the Redskins, so your claims are highly exaggerated.

.All GMs miss, but the best ones get it right much more often than they’re wrong, and they building through the draft.

I think many would agree that Tanny’s hit more than he’s missed when it comes to the draft. Whether you think he’s building through the draft or not is arguable, but he’s landed more than he’s bust.

I’m not a kid. I’ve never played Madden, nor had any desire to.

If you’ve never played Madden, then don’t use it as an analogy. Saying it’s only for kids is in itself just childish banter.

I don’t have access to the Scouting Dept. Info and resources that Tanny does, nor the experience working in the NFL, but I DO think I could do a better job than him putting a team together. I’ve been watching football for 48 years and have a pretty good eye for talent.

So now you’re saying you could do a better job than him, but you don’t have the resources? This is why your posts lack credibility. Because you criticize his every move AFTER the fact when hindsight is 20/20 and yet you don’t respect the difficulty of the job itself. Being a GM is far more than picking names off of draft boards and FA lists.

The fact is that you can’t argue about AFCC appearances in 2 out of the last 3 years.

by PowerBar on Feb 13, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions

RIF

No, I didn’t put words in your mouth. IMO you defend Tanny as if it would somehow threaten you. I’ve seen a lot of that on Jets boards over the years, defending coaches, players, the GM. It’s like they’re related to the player, coach, etc., being discussed.

I didn’t say he was a POS. I just said I don’t think he will bring us a Lombardi Trophy unless he changes his approach. I’ve pointed out good things that he has done. Just because the majority of Jets fans may agree with you doesn’t make you right. At one time, the majority of Jets fans thought both Herm and Mangini were good HCs, that Testaverde was a great QB for the Jets, and that BS was a good OC and should be retained.

Not getting Nnamdi has nothing to do with it. It certainly wasn’t for want of trying that they didn’t get him.

As for those moves helping the team make the AFCCG, perhaps, but perhaps with the moves I’ve suggested the team would have not only made the AFCCG, but the SB and actually won it.

Other GMs don’t have Rex as their HC. Even with not a lot of talent, he’ still had the D as one of the best in the NFL. With some real talent, they would be the best and the Jets could very well have won a SB or two by now.

When you trade picks, and wind up without very many, you darned well better hit more than you miss. It’s pretty easy to not miss when you trade up to take a consensus higher-rated player. It’s harder when you have to find talent where your pick is.

Don’t tell me what to use as an analogy. It fits. If you don’t like it, tough.

No, I said I could do a better job than him with the resources he has. RIF This is the last time I respond to you. You’re not worth the effort or time.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Feb 13, 2012 4:37 PM EST up reply actions

Eventually,

I think this year coming up going be our year. Barring injuries, all we really need to plug is the spots at Safety and OLB. If Tanny strike gold in the draft or FA at those two positions. Its a good chance we might win it all.

Every other aspect of the team is either great or enough to win. The two positions I mentioned is our must fix. As much I do not like Hunter. He might improve with the threat of being cut and losing a starting position.

Born a Jet. Die a Jet. On XBOX Madden 2012. I Play like a Jet!!!

by oneg82 on Feb 12, 2012 3:41 AM EST reply actions

"all we really need to plug is the spots at Safety and OLB"

Ummm….. you might want to also consider plugging that giant gaping quarterback eating maw that is Wayne Hunter at RT. Not to mention below average play at QB, WR1, WR2, Blocking TE, P, K, and only average play at RB. Other than that, yep, we’re SB bound!

by Smackdad on Feb 12, 2012 6:15 AM EST up reply actions

ummm

QB: Can improve
WR1: Tone’ll probably be back to himself
WR2: Draft or FA
Blocking TE: Simple, draft or FA
P: FA
K:FA
RB: Just gotta keep running the football and blocking well

by darshv3 on Feb 12, 2012 7:38 AM EST up reply actions

"Tone'll probably back to himself"

Agreed — that is, a well below average WR1. Tone has been in the league 6 years, and has always been a starter. In that time, he has had exactly 1 season over 950 yds, exactly 1 season over 55 catches, exactly two seasons over 6TDs, zero seasons over 8 TDs. An average Holmes year has been 56 catches, 950 yards and 6 TDs, and those numbers are skewed by one giant career year in 2009. Given his mediocre production in every other year of his career, it would be more accurate to say 2009 was an aberration, and Holmes is already back to himself, which is a well below average WR1.

by Smackdad on Feb 12, 2012 11:47 PM EST up reply actions

Sorry

but I think you’re being waaaay too much of an optimistic homer. Injuries happen. The Jets have practically zero depth. Even the best rookies can take some time to develop into starters. With the potential of a rookie starting at OLB, FS and RT, and possibly even WR, in addition to having a new OC who is totally unproven as an OC, Pace being another year older and slower, the OL adapting to going back to a man blocking scheme, etc. I think the Jets will be lucky to make the playoffs in 2012.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Feb 12, 2012 9:19 AM EST up reply actions

I think that's a stretch

I don’t think you need to be THAT pessimistic about the season. I think at least making the playoffs is realistic.

by darshv3 on Feb 12, 2012 9:55 AM EST up reply actions

It's Not a Matter of "Needing" That's Just How I See It

IMO it would be expecting a lot, even with a full offseason, for the Jets to get used to an almost totally new offensive CS, new system, resolve the locker room issues, fix the RT spot (with Hunter still here), work in a bunch of rookies, and see things improve by at least 3 wins (I think it will take at least 11 wins to make the playoffs out of the AFC East). Buffalo and Miami will be improved more than likely. NE will be NE, and if they sign some of the premier FA DBs and have a good draft, the Jets may as well forget about catching them until after Brady retires.

With potential injuries, things could get even worse. I think to say that making the playoffs is realistic is a stretch. Everything, or just about everything will have to go perfectly for them in FA and the draft, and with the transition to Sparano. It’s certainly possible that they can make the playoffs, just not that likely at this point. Perhaps if Tanny does a great job with FA and the draft, my perspective may change, but I have little confidence in him and the Jets’ Scouting Dept.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Feb 12, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions

Fair enough

The way I see it, a new offensive system is like a breath of fresh air, having a new OC can only help some of the problems that we had on that side of the ball. Personnel stuff is always a question mark, but I have enough trust in the FO to fix at least some of the holes to the point where they can compensate for each other. No team is gonna be 100% rock solid star-studded everywhere thanks to the salary cap. Injuries haven’t really been a huge issue in the Rex era, and for the most part whenever did someone get hurt we were able to get by (except with Jimmy this year).

As I’ve said, you’re entitled to your opinion, but every team starts at 0-0 at the beginning of every season, and the playoff hunt is wide open to everyone. And about NE, we’ve beaten them before in the rex era, and we were capable of beating them again this past year if we didn’t keep shooting ourselves in the foot over and over again. My point is, I look at the glass as half full, but that’s just me.

by darshv3 on Feb 12, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions

You Make Some Good Points

The new offensive system and OC IS or at least should be, like a breath of fresh air. I can’t imagine the play calling possibly being any worse. If Plax is gone, that should help somewhat with the selfish, cancerous players in the locker room. Hopefully, Holmes will get his ego in check, and get back on the same page with the rest of the team. The latter is a lot to hope for imo. I just can’t see him apologizing to his teammates, and all of his teammates being willing to accept him without that apology. I think there will be an uneasy tension in the locker room and on the field, unless Sparano is better than I give him credit for. I have some hopes for Sparano, but not a lot. At least Rex and he will be on the same page, in terms of running the ball, but he just doesn’t have a lot of experience, and while his team never quit on him in Miami, the offenses there didn’t overwhelm anyone.

No, no team is gonna be 100% set, but this team has a loooooooooong way to go before it can even get remotely close to that. Unless something changes drastically, there is still no depth on the OL and huge question marks with Hunter and Ducasse. Will Sparano and his OL coach be able to coach them up or will the Jets bring in someone better? How will Keller fit in, or will he even still be here? Can Cumberland come back from his injury? Will LT be back? Will the Jets add a new RB and demote or trade Greene? Who will the WRs be? Will Sanchez make much progress with the same QB coach? Will Sanchez progress and adapt to Sparano’s system? After the beating he took in the media from some of his teammates and the media, and even the Jets’ FO talking about bringing in some one to “push” him, will his confidence be totally shot?

Will the Jets finally address the pass rush in the draft in a significant manner? Will Tanny foolishly trade up again. waisting picks? Will they be able to sign a FA S? If not, will they be able to draft some of the better S prospects? Will Rex get a better handle on the team? Will he learn about and have positive contributions to the offense? Will Cro play as well as he did this past year or revert to 2010 form? Will Maybin progress any? Will Wilkerson and Ellis continue to improve with a full off season? Will Pouha be back?

Will the Jets be able to upgrade the P and possibly the K positions as well?

Yes, the Jets have been lucky with injuries so far, but how long will that luck continue? What if Sanchez or another key player or players go(es) down with a serious injury?

Yes, everyone starts 0-0, but if you think everyone’s chances of having a good team and making the playoffs are really equal, then you’re very naive.

Yes, the Jets have beaten the Pats, but have they ever done it really convincingly as the Pats have pounded the Jets? Also, it’s not just a matter of beating the Pats. The Jets have to learn how to beat Baltimore.

We’re all entitled to our opinions, and you know what “they” say about opinions. They really don’t mean squat. Not yours, not mine, not crack’s when it comes to how well the team will do. That’s on Tanny, Rex & Co. They haven’t exactly inspired me or a lot of other Jets fans with overwhelming confidence so far. It’s certainly been more fun, more interesting, and we’ve had more hope under Rex than under Herm or Mangini, but he still has a lot to learn about being a HC. By the time he does, will he still be HC of the Jets, and even if he is, will it be in time to win with Ferguson, Mangold and Revis, or will it be the next generation of Jets?

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Feb 12, 2012 5:45 PM EST up reply actions

That's a lot of questions, and all valid ones too

We can all choose to look at what we think the outcomes will be however we please. Personally, i’m aware that success isn’t a sure thing for next year, but i see it as a glass-half full kind of thing. And with the 0-0 thing, i’m aware that not EVERY team is gonna be a legit contender to be in the playoffs, but I think we have the chance to at least complete for a playoff berth. Heck, with our really flawed team we were sitting at 8-5 in control of our own destiny before the team kinda just inexplicably imploded.

For the record, I find this to be an intriguing conversation.

by darshv3 on Feb 12, 2012 9:36 PM EST up reply actions

Me Too

and I appreciate your thoughtful responses. Who knows? You could be totally right, everything could click, and this could be the year that everything finally falls into place for the Jets.

I’m a much more optimistic in “life” but after 48 years of being a Jets fan and being disappointed and frustrated time and time again, I’ve learned to temper my enthusiasm and hopefulness when it comes to the Jets. Take last year. I got really excited following the draft, even though I thought Tanny had screwed the pooch (and the team) with the way he handled FA and allowing almost a quarter of the team to leave. By the time of the third or fourth game of the season, I could see the handwriting on the wall and knew I was right. I KNEW the Jets weren’t going to make the playoffs, and even if they did, it would be one and done.

Believe me, I’d love for you to be right, and me to be totally surprised with how things work out this year and next for the Jets, but unless Tanny (Woody) changes his approach to building the roster 180 degrees, then I just don’t see it happening.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Feb 12, 2012 11:58 PM EST up reply actions

48 years?

Geez, you’ve been through it all haven’t you? For what it’s worth you’ve gotten a lot of respect from me.

by darshv3 on Feb 13, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions

I agree with your analysis to an extent

I really think Tannenbaum needs to change his approach on bringing in veteran FA and trading away most of his picks but the choices he has taken were usually very good. His success rate with picks is probably alot higher than most teams but having like a 75% success rate with 4 picks isnt as good as a 50% success rate with 8 picks. Overall i think he has done an OK job, im neither happy nor upset with his overall approach, just neutral. If the jets continue on their decline for the next two years without bringing in some promising young talent i will consider him a sub-par GM, if he can bring in some good young talent and start to really build the core of the team he can be seen as a decent GM

by flixenuz on Feb 12, 2012 1:02 PM EST reply actions

Tannebaum's true failure isn't the what if's or the lack of depth

the more I think about it, his true failure since he took over is finding true impact players, playmakers to give the team someone to rally around. Someone that can make that home run play consistently to change the momentum of the game.

That said, a lot of it has to do with coaches putting the players in a position to succeed. I think it’s been difficult to find that playmaker because we’ve been spending our time drafting and FAing offensive players that couldn’t be properly used under an inept coach. Hopefully this year we’ll have a more defensive draft from top to bottom and Rex can mold an Ed Reed or Ray Lewis out of one of these picks.

by PowerBar on Feb 12, 2012 11:46 PM EST reply actions

Ironic Isn't It?

While Tanny was trying to find those stars, those “can’t miss” impact players by trading up and signing big name FAs, he has pretty much failed to find any. Instead of going about his job like other GMs and trying to find those gems in the middle and lower rounds, trading down occasionally to acquire extra picks to help upgrade the overall team depth and speed, he swung or the fences and mostly hit singles. He has also missed out on getting some of those “impact” players with his constant trading up, trading of draft picks for vets, and drafting OL in the first two rounds.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Feb 13, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions

that's part of it

but as I said in my reply, it may be because he’s been busy drafting players for the offense that has been incompetently mismanaged. Rex seemed to be nice enough to defer the draft to the offense. What would have happened if Rex demanded more players for the defense through the draft? We might have had a star or two in the making by now.

by PowerBar on Feb 13, 2012 8:50 AM EST up reply actions

A Topnotch GM

would have gotten Rex those stars by now. Imagine what Rex could do if he had a couple of dynamic playmakers, impact players on the front 7 to go with Revis.

Tanny will probably use too much of this draft and FA period on the offense yet again, and it still won’t be fixed. There’s a reason for that. Poor coaching and system was a big part of the problem, but it goes beyond that. It goes to Tanny’s basic ability or lack thereof to do his job well.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Feb 13, 2012 10:20 AM EST up reply actions

we'll see

i’m pretty sure they’re going to focus on the D more this time on the draft. Look no further than the Pats to see how important the coaching and system are when you don’t have game breaking talent.

by PowerBar on Feb 13, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions