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Draft By Draft Analysis of Mike Tannenbaum - Pt. 2 2007

In this series, my intent is to try to get to the truth. I am going to try to be fair, and point out good moves as well as those I think are questionable. I'm going to try to point out when he didn't cave to temptation to make a big move, trade up, or didn't take a flawed player high even though that player was highly rated and would have addressed a position of need. If I miss something, I know I can count on you guys to set me straight.

More after the jump.

Star-divide

As many of you have pointed out, looking at the draft is hindsight for us fans. I would hasten to point out that it isn't so much for the GM AND his Scouting Dept. That is their job. They are the ones charged with figuring out who the most talented players are, but more than that, the players that will be the best fits in the Jets' schemes, players who love the game and give it their all, and the character and leadership issues cannot be ignored. With some players, the scouts have followed them for years. They have spoken with them, their teammates and former coaches. They have put some of the players through drills, questioned them, and watched them at the Combine and post season All-Star games like the Senior Bowl and East-West Shrine Bowl. Even though there are always some surprised, they should have a pretty good idea of which players will succeed and which ones won't.

It's hard for us on the outside to accurately determine what is the Scouting Dept. and what is the GM when it comes to the draft. On one hand, he should trust his Scouting Dept. On the other, he is supposed to be knowledgeable enough and have a discerning eye for himself. Still, there's little or no doubt that when a GM fails in a draft, the Scouting Dept. probably has to share in at least some part of the blame, unless he just totally ignores what they report to them.

That said, it is my understanding that scouts are just looking at talented players who might fit the systems in place with the team. The GM has to look at the big picture. He has to look at the team payroll structure years ahead. He has to evaluate whether current players figure in their future plans. He has to figure out where the cap dollars will go. He has to look at both future potential draft classes and future FA classes to try to determine what help might be available, and plan his current FA and draft moves accordingly. (This is info we never have which makes us have to evaluate things in hindsight.) It isn't an easy job. Regardless, the buck stops with the GM. He hires the scouts, player personnel people, the coaches and makes the final decision on whom is drafted and which players are traded for or signed as FAs. If the Scouting Dept. screws up and he follows their advice, he gets the blame. The only ways we have of evaluating GMs are the W-L record of the team, the caliber of the team he has assembled, AND the players he pass on in FA and the draft.

2007 Offseason

FA: The Jets FAs were RB BJ. Askew, DE Dave Ball, OT Anthony Clement, RB James Hodgins, DT Rashad Moore, TE Sean Ryan, C Wade Smith and LB Cody Spencer. They re-signed Clement, Ryan, Smith and Spencer. They released Patrick Ramsey and Curtis Martin retired.

The FAs the Jets signed were: Marques Tuiasosopo, Andre Wadsworth, and Michael Haynes. Wadsworth and Haynes didn't make it into the season and Tuiasosopo never threw a pass. I couldn't find any cap info, but assume they must have been tight up against the cap as both Wadsworth and Haynes were cheaper signings and never made the team. Tuiasosopo was a career backup and fairly cheap. Whatever cap room they must have had must have gone to Thomas Jones.

Other QBs who were available in 2007 were: Matt Schaub, Tim Rattay, Jeff Garcia, Drew Bledsoe, Aaron Brooks, Rohan Davey, Brad Johnson, Shaun King, John Navarre and Anthony Wright. I sure hope they were tight up against the cap, because if they had the cap space, Matt Schaub could and perhaps should have been the Jets QB of the future. Also, Jeff Garcia was a very good QB. They still had Chad, so probably were only looking for a backup, and I'm sure Garcia would have wanted a starting job. He was with Tampa Bay in 2007-2008 (started), then back with Philly in 2009. He apparently was out of the NFL in 2010, but was with Houston this past season. 2007 was Chad's last season with the Jets. If the Jets had the cap space, I can understand not signing Schaub, as Chad was their guy, but with his already having been seriously injured at least once and probably twice, I think they would have been much better served bringing in either Schaub or Garcia even though I was a Chad fan. I'm not sure they even expressed any interest in either of them.

Trades: In a salary dispute, they traded OL Pete Kendall to the Washington Redskins for their 5th round pick. That, imo, was the first major mishandling of the roster in general and OL in particular. As the Adrien Clarke reign of error at OG (disaster) was soon to begin. An OG should have been drafted or the Jets should have signed a veteran FA. Floyd Womack and Erich Steinbach were available. Without the trade for Jones, the Jets would have had the money to sign one of them or one of the other FAs (I'm not sure which are OGs and which are OTs or Cs): Jordan Black, Dwayne Carswell, Kris Dielman, Derrick Dockery, Chris Gray, Norm Katnik, Ryan Lilja, Sean Locklear, Damion McIntosh, Roman Oben, and Brian Rimpf. Any one of those guys would have had to have been better than Clarke.

They also acquired Thomas Jones from the Chicago Bears in an exchange of 2nd round picks. At the time, I thought that was a creative and excellent deal and a very good deal for the Jets, as the Jets' rushing offense was one of the worst in the NFL in 2006. I think most Jets fans probably still think that was an excellent trade. I wonder what they will think after they see this. The problem is that if the Jets hadn't made that trade, they would have been picking at #37. See below to see what players they missed by making that trade. In retrospect, that trade really hurt the team. Jones was a pretty good player, a solid citizen and leader for the Jets, but not only did he cost them one of the players they could have taken at #37, but due to his contract also probably prevented the team from signing a FA OG to replace Kendall instead of Adrien Clarke, or possibly even from signing Jeff Garcia or Matt Schaub. Also, RB is THE easiest position for a rookie to come in and play at a high level. Acquiring a veteran RB isn't necessary to upgrade the rushing attack.

Draft: The Jets only had picks in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th & 6th rounds. Their 4th round pick went to SF in 2006 for Kevan Barlow. The Jets' 7th round pick had gone to Green Bay in 2005 for OL Steve Morley. The Jets also had additional 6th (from Carolina in the Revis Trade) and 7th round (from Detroit for Jon McGraw) picks. They traded their original 6th to Dallas for DB Pete Hunter on April 16, 2007 and their original 7th to Dallas for TE Sean Ryan on August 31, 2006. The 4 picks the Jets had in this draft were the fewest in franchise history.

The Jets traded their #1 (25th), #2 (59th), and #5 (164) picks to the Carolina Panthers for their #1 (14th) and #6 (191st) picks. With the #14 pick they took Darrelle Revis. The Jets paid a pretty big price to move up, but Revis has been worth it.

The Jets later traded their other 2nd round pick (63rd) , their 3rd (89th and the 6th they acquired from Carolina in the Revis trade to Green Bay for the Packers 2nd (47th) and 7th round (235th) picks. With the 47th pick, the Jets took David Harris. Harris has been a very good player for the Jets, but he is slow and I think he is a bit overpaid for his actual production. As mentioned earlier, had the Jets not traded for Thomas Jones, they could have had LaMarr Woodley at OLB and they wouldn't have had to overpay for Pace in 2008. I would rather have Woodley than Harris. That also means the Jets would have had more cap space in 2008 to address needs and wouldn't have the cap issues they have this year or have had for the last couple of years because of Pace's exorbitant contract.

It is also worth mentioning, however, that the Panthers took Ryan Kalil at pick #59. He is considered a very solid center. So, while I'm glad the Jets got Revis and probably also Harris, if the Jets had waited until 2007 to address their OL, they could have added Joe Staley and Ryan Kalil with the same trade up in the first as for Revis,but probably a good bit cheaper to move up just a few spots to take Kalil. Had the Jets gone that way, they could have nabbed Haloti Ngata and DeMeco Ryans in 2006. I think Ngata is definitely the equal of Revis at his position and Ryans, if not equal, is very close, so the point could arguably be made that the Jets would be better off with Ngata, Ryans, Staley and Kalil than with Revis, Harris, Ferguson and Mangold. Staley is also a Pro Bowl LT, and is probably better blocking in the rushing attack than Ferguson. Ryans is definitely better than Harris. Mangold is probably better than Kalil, although Kalil was also a Pro Bowler, and Ngata and Revis are a wash or maybe Revis has a slight edge.

The Jets had traded their 4th round pick in this draft to SF in 2006 for Kevan Barlow, who lasted only one season in NY and was a total waste (rushed for only 370 yards, a 2.8 ypc avg).

With their 6th round pick, the Jets select OT Jacob Bender. With that pick they could have selected either K Nick Folk (LOL) or K Mason Crosby. I would rather have Crosby. The Jets probably wouldn't have had any kicking issues had they gone that route.

With the 7th round pick they got from Carolina, the Jets selected WR Chansi Stuckey. I think this was a very good pick. That said, the Jets also could have had either Jason Snelling or Ahmad Bradshaw. With Bradshaw, the Jets wouldn't have had to trade up to get Greene in 2009. Had they spotted his potential, they also wouldn't have had to make that trade for Thomas Jones, which in turn caused them to miss out on other talent. I think most football fans would say that Bradshaw is a better RB than Greene. With Snelling, the Jets could have used the 5th round pick they used on John Conner in 2010 elsewhere.

Players by-passed in taking Revis: Jon Beason OLB (not really a fit), Anthony Spencer DE/OLB, Robert Meachem WR, Ben Grubbs OG and Joe Staley OT. None approach Revis.

Players by-passed in trading for Thomas Jones: SS Eric Weddle (eliminates a huge hole in the secondary and greatly lessens their inability to cover TEs and RBs over the middle), TE Zach Miller (which would mean they wouldn't have had to trade up for Keller), CB Chris Houston (which means they wouldn't have had to trade a 2nd to SD for Cromartie in 2010), WR Sidney Rice or DE/OLB LaMarr Woodley (wouldn't have had to overpay for Calvin Pace in 2008).

Players by-passed in trading up for David Harris: James Jones, Ray McDonald, Paul Soliai, Michael Bush

Players by-passed in trading their 4th round pick (#124) to SF for Kevan Barlow in 2006: Jermon Bushrod (Pro Bowl OT for the Saints), Dashon Goldson (another Pro Bowler who some here would like the Jets to sign as a FA), TE Scott Chandler, FB Le'Ron McClain, WR Steve Breaston, TE Kevin Boss, TE Brent Celek, OT Clint Oldenburg, WR Legedu Naanee

In fairness, this is a bit of cherry picking,as there are a lot of names from the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds of that draft that either are just backups in the NFL or are no longer in the NFL as far as I know. Some of you might recognize the names of some good players or starters for other teams from among those names that I missed. Still, the point remains that there was talent to be had. Any one of those players I mentioned above in the 4th or 5th round would eliminate a hole on the Jets today. That's a LOT of talent that Tanny and/or the Jets' Scouting Dept. missed out on because of the stupid trade for Kevan Barlow who had never been that good. Imagine bookend OTs like Ferguson or Staley and Bushrod or Oldenburg. Imagine Weddle and Goldson as the Safeties. Imagine any of those TEs and NO Matt Mulligan. Imagine a speedy field stretching WR like Breaston or Naanee instead of Holmes (plus the player the Jets could have gotten with the 5th round pick they used to acquire Holmes from the Steelers). McClain is a Pro Bowler and much better than Conner.

No, Tanny and the Jets' Scouting Dept. wasn't the only team to miss some of those players, but there were a number of teams who didn't miss. Undoubtedly, some of that may have been luck, but there was some skill involved as well. Saying that it's ok that the Jets missed out because other teams did too doesn't make sense to me. That leaves the Jets average or mediocre. You should want our GM and Scouting Dept. to be above average, to be one of the ones that more consistently finds those gems in a bad draft. The Jets could have actually traded down in this draft and acquired some of the players named above.

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I think the hindsight "we could've traded to X and taken Y" is a futile argument to make

The Jets scouting department identified players they thought would be good and for the most part they were. All this “we could’ve done hypothetical trade that may have no basis in reality” stuff is ridiculous, and quite frankly too much work to follow. This would be much better if you just analyzed the Jets choices based on what was known at the time coupled with the Jets needs. Saying the Jets should’ve signed some stop gap POS like Justin Hartwig and went somewhere else over taking Mangold
and instead have DeMeco Ryans would’ve been crazy talk at the time. Hell, that’s bad even in hindsight.

Also, Schaub wasn’t an option, he was a tendered restricted free agent who was traded to Houston on the condition that Houston signs him long term, and they did. Houston paid a hefty price.

by J-Nasty on Jan 31, 2012 7:48 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

RIF

I didn’t say they should have made a hypothetical trade, so don’t know where you got that. I talk about trades Tanny actually made that wound up costing the team big time.

Regarding Mangold and Hartwig, in your opinion it’s crazy talk, in mine it isn’t. You can’t have a Pro Bowler at every position on the team. The Jets needed LBs at the time, particularly speed ones who could make plays and pressure the QB. Ryans was an outstanding prospect. In the very next draft, the Jets could have added Kalil. Suffering through a Hartwig for one season when they were in the process of rebuilting or re-tooling the team, in order to wind up with BOTH Ryans and Kalil is not crazy. Sorry that you’re so blind that you can’t see that. That is one of the things that the best GMs do.

With regards to Schaub, what did Houston actually pay? To get a franchise caliber QB, was it too much? I don’t remember what the cost was, but know that many Jets fans (including myself) thought it was the way the team should have gone. I never wanted Sanchez or any of the QBs in the 2009 draft. We all know that Tanny is aggressive. If the Jets could have actually paid the same price as Houston and chose not to because they weren’t high on Schaub, then that goes against their player evaluation abiltiies and decision making.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Jan 31, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Houston gave up a Second rd pick

by dawg1331 on Jan 31, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

good points

i’m always annoyed when we see what we could have had from the draft . when i look back and see the quality they missed out on i always ask " why are we missing these guys . people get paid decent money to evaluate talent and when they miss it shows a lack of skill in their jobs .
but i think the main reasons we miss on talent is because tanny drafts for now and not the future . he strike me as a guy with very little consideration for the future and has a very win now mentality . that came be both good and bad but when you are missing so many pieces of the puzzle after 6 or so years in the job then i think tanny needs to change his strategy when it comes to FA , trades and the draft .
New York is the biggest market in th U.S and it always puzzled me why he seems to overpay for players to come here . playing in New York should give these players the best chance of making money outside of football and i think tanny doesn’t sell this to players well enough to entice them to come here .
EXAMPLE
if a player is a FA and tanny want him , we should be able to sign him without offering the most money . why? because tanny should be able to show what type of extra earning potential signing for the jets brings . if we offer 1m less to a player he should be able to sell to this guy he could potentially earn the difference and lots more just by playing in the biggest market in the NFL .

follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16

Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland

by tinley24 on Jan 31, 2012 7:51 AM EST reply actions  

Unless you are a star, I highly doubt the earning potential of the field is different in any city

Especially to offset the extremely high taxes and cost of living in this area.

Is a guy like Calvin Pace going to make so much more endorsement money just because he’s in NY as opposed to Miami or Dallas? I mean, let’s be real, he’s not, because he’s not a marketable player. In which case, would you rather pay extremely high taxes and pay possibly as much as double for property, or play where there is lesser income tax levels (or in Florida or Texas, no state income tax at all) and the cost of property and living in general is much less? You aren’t going to convince someone to play for less and pay more. That’s why Tanny has to offer a competitive contract if not overpay. Besides, as big as the NFL is, there’s almost no market weaknesses around the league, and other teams have a lot more franchise history (and thus, marketability) behind them than the Jets.

by J-Nasty on Jan 31, 2012 8:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Yes, even Brett Favre at his salary and after all those years earning it, remarked that the North East was shockingly expensive

Its ridiculous here. Add in a few states, for example, Texas, with no income tax, and New York sucks for earnings and conservative living.

by CervezaVerde on Jan 31, 2012 8:13 AM EST up reply actions  

good to know

i’ve never been to america so this was what is portrayed from the outside looking in .
i always thought NY was the place to be as the main city in the U.S but i bow to your first hand knowledge on the subject and stand corrected .

thank you for your polite rebuttal .

follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16

Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland

by tinley24 on Jan 31, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

All this talk doesn't count for NY QBs. They get endorsements disproportionately to the rest of the country.

Unless you are in the rest of the country and won the superbowl. Then you will have commercials for years.

by CervezaVerde on Jan 31, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

The Jets as much as we hate

are equivelent to the Mets and Nets. They are New Yorks 2nd team so the answer is yes you have to over pay, because no one likes to play for the little brother. Look at the Mets Carlos Beltran wanted to go to the Yankees, in order for the Mets to get him they needed to pay 150% of what he was looking for to play in the same city.

by ncquake24 on Jan 31, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

As mentioned earlier, had the Jets not traded for Thomas Jones, they could have had LaMarr Woodley at OLB and they wouldn’t have had to overpay for Pace in 2008.

And if we hadn’t traded for Thomas Jones. We’d have no starting RB.

With Bradshaw, the Jets wouldn’t have had to trade up to get Greene in 2009. Had they spotted his potential, they also wouldn’t have had to make that trade for Thomas Jones, which in turn caused them to miss out on other talent.

If only we had looked into our crystal ball and saw #1 what bradshaw would be and #2 that he would fall to us because you seem really against trading up.

You also seem to be analyzing moves in this one and the previous one (imo) based on a Rex Ryan coached team which we didn’t have at these times.

by ncquake24 on Jan 31, 2012 11:13 AM EST reply actions  

Read Much???
And if we hadn’t traded for Thomas Jones. We’d have no starting RB.

Ahmad Bradshaw was taken in the 7th round. I’m sure there were other good RBs taken in that draft as well. RB is the easiest position for a rookie to come in, start, and play well. That trade for Jones was a big mistake.


If only we had looked into our crystal ball and saw #1 what bradshaw would be and #2 that he would fall to us because you seem really against trading up.

Crystal balls have nothing to do with it. Tanny and the Scouts are PAID to find talent in the draft. That is their full time job, not a hobby like for us fans. Supposedly, they know what to look for in terms of speed, athleticism, coachability, football instincts, strength, intelligence, heart, discipline, etc. Just because a lot of other GMs missed out, doesn’t make Tanny any better at his job.

You also seem to be analyzing moves in this one and the previous one (imo) based on a Rex Ryan coached team which we didn’t have at these times.

Simply wrong. Mangini ran a 3-4 D. The Jets needed a RB. It’s not rocket science or brain surgery.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Jan 31, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, Tannenhouse and the scouts are paid to find talent - so are all of the other teams’ GM and scouts. If despite all of their efforts, an Ahmad Bradshaw slipped to the 7th round, then perhaps you should exercise a bit of humility regarding their efforts to find these stars?

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by OldProspects on Jan 31, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

So Because Other GMs Missed the Boat

we just excuse Tanny and the Jets Scouting Dept? It’s ok to be mediocre and not one of the best at finding talent in the draft? I want the Jets to be like the Giants, Green Bay, Pittsburgh or Baltimore and more consistently find excellent talent in the drafts. Let some other team be average/mediocre like all the rest.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Jan 31, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Players performance depends on a lot of things

For all we know the only reason Bradshaw is good is because something the Giants Coaching staff said clicked, or because he plays his entire career with something to prove, and that if he was picked in the first or second he wouldn’t have played that way and would instead have been a bust. If the general media hadn’t been shaky with Cam Newton being the #1 overall pick would he have set all those records? He definitely played with something to prove this year.

by ncquake24 on Jan 31, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

There Are No Guarantees

but I think the majority of players who make it with one team, would make it with most others unless the CS tried to fit them into a system or style of play that didn’t fit their skill set or temperament. There are probably exceptions in the opposite way, but I think those that are busts or who only become mediocre players, would reach the same level with most other teams.

Some coaches are better teachers than others. Some are better motivators. Some adapt their systems to the strengths of the players they have rather than trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

Similarly, some players thrive under pressure, others wilt and need to brought along more slowly. Some play well in big cities, others don’t. Some love the game, some are only playing for the money. That’s why NFL teams interview players, talk to their former coaches, teammates, parents, have the kids take tests to try to get a handle on the mindset/psychological makeup of the player. It’s not an exact science, but they have a lot more tools today than GMs had even 15-20 years ago.

I think Cam Newton would have made it this year almost regardless of where he wound up. Why? Because he has off the charts talent, instincts, wants it and has the right psychological makeup. Anyone who could win a national Jr. College Championship one year, then go to a new school the following year and win the National Championship playing the toughest schedule of any team and under the spotlight and surrounded with all the controversy he had to deal with, was going to make it in the NFL.

I think the only way he wouldn’t have is if he wound up in a system where the OC/HC totally mishandled him and put him in a system that didn’t suit his talents or was too complex (like Schotty’s).

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Jan 31, 2012 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I understand Mangini ran a 3-4 but Ryan runs a more smash mouth and agressive defense
Ahmad Bradshaw was taken in the 7th round. I’m sure there were other good RBs taken in that draft as well. RB is the easiest position for a rookie to come in, start, and play well. That trade for Jones was a big mistake.

Yes RB may be the easiest position to come in immediately in your opinion (I disagree just look at Joe McKnight and Bilal Powel both were not impressive their rookie year), but Tanny has shown a win now mentality which you need in NY, and in order to win now you make the trade and get the veteran RB you know will perform well over the young rookie RB that could’ve been a bust. Maybe you could have taken the risk by selecting a rookie running back and it turned out to be a better move, but it would be just as likely that you selected a bust and the team would’ve been screwed in the RB position. You seem to think Tanny is lacking in skills when in fact the thing is you disagree with the style. Tannenbaum is not a great builder he has very little football experience and understands that which is why he doesn’t try to build a team like Belichick does because he’s not as good an evaluator. What he is good at is negotiating and making trades which is perfect for his win now style and the win now demands of the city.

by ncquake24 on Jan 31, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

It's a Known Fact, Not Just My Opinion

the RB is THE easiest position for a rookie to come in, start and do well. You obviously haven’t been watching football very long. Announcers say that about every season. Just because McKnight and Powell struggled doesn’t mean jack. That probably has more to do with Schotty’s BS offense or being bad picks than it does the reality of the situation.

Dude, you made my point for me. In one sentence you say I think Tanny is lacking in skills when in fact what I disagree with is style, then you turn right around and say Tanny is not a great builder and has little football experience. Exactly!!!!! That’s why he should not be building the Jets’ roster!!

Who cares what NYC and what some dumb fans want who’d rather try to “win now” and then have the team screwed for years there after!!! They’ve been there, done that before. The Jets need to have a real, experienced football man running things, so they can build a solid team, compete for a long time and win a SB finally.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Feb 4, 2012 12:11 AM EST up reply actions  

I have no problem with your post

I believe if you could find media reports or grades on how the off season was looked at, at that time. Fans takes on how they viewed the past off season would also be helpful. I also realize that doing these things would involve a whole lot of research, so I don’t expect you to do it, but I would like to see how the fans and media view those off seasons as they happened. Keep up the good work.

by BIG OH!!!!! on Jan 31, 2012 11:45 AM EST reply actions  

We are the "fans" and the media sucks

So this is an attempt to have the fans comment if you will.

by CervezaVerde on Jan 31, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

What i'm saying (probably a poor attempt) is for him to go back and research media or fan comments at the time of that draft

Example: When the Jets drafted Mark Sanchez or any other current or past jet. What was the media saying? What were the fans saying at the time of this move. If the fans were in support of drafting Sanchez and now think it was a stupid move, then you probably can’r blame Tanny, since you first supported the move. Same thing with the media. What were their take on picking Sanchez or any other draft pick or FA move. Not expecting him to do it, but I would love to see that added to his posts.

by BIG OH!!!!! on Jan 31, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

think Ngata is definitely the equal of Revis at his position and Ryans, if not equal, is very close, so the point could arguably be made that the Jets would be better off with Ngata, Ryans, Staley and Kalil than with Revis, Harris, Ferguson and Mangold.

No

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by John B on Jan 31, 2012 4:05 PM EST reply actions  

The Draft was great that year. They ended up with Revis, Harris, Stuckey, and signed Devito as a UDFA. Add in the Jones trade and they acquired five contributors and four starters through the Draft. That’s incredible.

Editor-In-Chief
Gang Green Nation
SB Nation's Jets Blog
http://www.ganggreennation.com

by John B on Jan 31, 2012 4:12 PM EST reply actions  

that builds on a point I made on the last part of this series

Anyone can say a GM sucks for what they didn’t do, it’s what they DID do that makes them stand out. And I think Tanny has done a good job getting us some good players. That being said, we do need some more depth.

by darshv3 on Jan 31, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Tanny certainly has some things to answer for, but I don’t agree with my friend Joe about this one.

The 2007 offseason was a really bad one, but some of the suggestions weren’t plausible within the context of the times. After Week 1 the year before, Mike Nugent didn’t miss from inside 50 yards so there was no chance of the Jets taking a kicker. Pennington was coming off a good year, and Clemens was the guy of the future so there was no chance of a move for Schaub or Garcia. This is, however, an area where you can legitimately hit Tanny IMO, the quarterbacks he has picked in the Draft.

I think the great failure of the 2007 offseason, though, was free agency. Mike and Mangini got a bit too full of themselves for the soft schedule they succeeded against in 2006 and thought they could coach up anybody (sounds strangely familiar). Outside the Jones trade and the Draft, their only moves were small reclamation projects on busts like Haynes and Wadsworth. There were real and serious holes on the team. Anthony Clement was no answer at right tackle. Dewayne Robertson was no answer at nose tackle. Victor Hobson was no 3-4 outside linebacker, etc. etc. Even with cap space, the Jets made no real moves to fill their holes.

I think I’ll agree with the next post more because 2008 was a legitimately bad Draft.

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by John B on Jan 31, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh yes

He-who-shall-not-be-named…at least we got Keller and lowery

by darshv3 on Jan 31, 2012 6:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Good Points

I had forgotten that Nugent had a good year the year before, and I know they were high on Chad and liked Clemens. I still think their evaluation was flawed. Schaub had already shown that he had legitimate starting ability in the NFL. Chad had already proven himself to be fragile. At the very least, they needed to seriously uprade the OL in that draft or FA if they could to protect Chad.

Tanny would have known in 2006 that Schaub was going to be an RFA in 2007. He knew trading for Schaub would be an option. I remember the Jets board that I was posting on at that time and almost every one of us wanted the Jets to go after Schaub. Very few of us liked Clemens and thought he was a good prospect. If I’m not mistaken, I think BS was the one who was high on Clemens. Even if I’m wrong about Schaub and Clemens, your point about Tanny’s choice of QBs is valid.

I agree that neither Clement, Hobson or Robertson were the answer at their positions and the Jets had holes. I’d also add Adrien Clarke to that list. He was the worst, imo. Do you remember if they had cap space? I don’t and couldn’t find any info on what their cap was like in 2007. Since they made so few moves, I figured they must have been tight up against the cap and were unable to financially. Not trading for Jones would have given them some money to sign an upgrade over Adrien Clarke or Clement or possibly both. If they had the cap space and didn’t use it, then they definitely screwed the pooch.

I may be able to begin the 3rd installment tomorrow night, but it may be the weekend before I’m able to even begin and most certainly before I can complete it.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Jan 31, 2012 11:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Subtract the Jones Trade

and they still could have 5 contributors/5 starters and because they then would have been able to sign a FA, at a minimum the team would have better depth, and possibly would have had even another starter and contributor.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Jan 31, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Jones was a two for one deal. The Jets got Jones AND a second round pick for a second round pick.

Editor-In-Chief
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by John B on Jan 31, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I Know That

but the 2nd round pick went from #37 to #63. BIG difference in the talent that was available.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Jan 31, 2012 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

But they didn’t get nothing. Something very valuable was added in exchange, a guy who ran for 1,000 yards three times.

If you traded down from 37 to 63, you are probably getting a midround pick. Odds that you strike a three time 1,000 yard rusher with that pick aren’t very good. If one of the criticisms of Tannenbaum is that he trades up too much, I don’t think it’s quite fair to get on him when trades down to add a productive back and manages to stay in the second round.

Editor-In-Chief
Gang Green Nation
SB Nation's Jets Blog
http://www.ganggreennation.com

by John B on Jan 31, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I Do Obviously

As I said, I liked the trade originally. That said, what is the purpose of the team? Is it just to find a 1,000 rusher, or is it to build a SB winner and a team that will be very good and competitive for a long time? Is Jones still on the team? Would the player that the Jets could have taken with that pick still be on the team and a productive starter (and have addressed one of the current holes on the roster)? Who knows but the answer to the previous three questions could and should be yes. Further, would the FA the Jets could have signed with that money they gave to Jones have helped the team? Would either have prevented the team from having to overpay to bring in a FA to address a glaring need within a year or two. The answer is yes.

As I see it, the problem with you and too many Jets fans is you’re too easily satisfied and contented, too willing to settle for average, and stick too much to “in the box” thinking. FA signings and draft picks don’t happen in a vacuum. They impact every future move the team makes and are cumulative. I think by the time I have finished this series that one will be able to see (if one really wants to see it) that with just a few different moves over Tanny’s 6 years as GM, that the team would be a lot more talented, and have fewer, and possibly zero holes.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Jan 31, 2012 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Zero holes? Really?

So why not rip the Jets in the 80’s for not getting Marino? or 94 for Brady or Keyshawn later in the 90’s. Those moves left holes, no? The difference between those drafts and our drafts of late has we’ve hit a lot of good talent, sometimes they were great but most often they were nothing spectacular.
I mean you value Ngata as good as Revis. That’s not even close.
Your trying to rewrite history and say he did a bad job because he didn’t hit every star. Neither has GB…. they have had a lot of picks that were great, but they’ve had their fair share of misses too.

by sp0rtsfan86 on Jan 31, 2012 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Because

the 80s are ancient history. In Tanny’s case we’re talking about the present, not the past.

I disagree with you regarding Revis and Ngata, and I think a lot of NFL fans would. Jets fans are biased. Revis is a great player, but so is Ngata.

I am not trying to rewrite history. Nowhere have I said he did a bad job because he didn’t hit every star. I’ve pointed out positives and negative, and pointed out some alternative moves he could have made. Where I have mentioned other excellent players, it is because they could/would have filled positions of need on the team and were good fits.

I didn’t say that GB was perfect either. I invite you to re-read these two posts, or just skip this series of posts altogether since you seem to be perfectly happy with Tanny. I don’t like people twisting my words. As I have said numerous times, there are moves and drafts of Tanny’s that I liked early on, but rather than seeing him getting better and better, I think he’s getting worse. Each post isn’t complete in and of itself. It’s a part of a whole where I will attempt to tie it all together into a pattern. I couldn’t post it all at once because it would be too big.

Thanks for your response anyway. Sorry you aren’t willing to wait, read the whole series then form your opinion, but that’s your choice.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Jan 31, 2012 11:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I've Already Said it Was

As I also said, I’m just methodically going through each draft. One draft doesn’t give the complete picture. I also said that Tanny started out very well and I liked him a lot at first, but I think he’s been going precipitously downhill in the last few years. You’re tilting at a windmill with this post.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Jan 31, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I appreciate the time and work put into these Posts but I cant really see what the point is

I understand its an evaluation of the job Tanny has done but what GM hasnt had some misses? Im yet to see any team have a perfect draft. In my eyes, Tanny built teams that were very close to the big game. Those rosters had plenty of flaws, but what teams dont. Look at the Pats right now, they have a terrible defense which was built through the draft, yet they got to the SB.

As far as going after Schaub, didnt they just use a 2nd rounder the year before on the QB of the future? Clemens didnt turn out being that guy(thanks in part to the worst line Ive ever seen) but I think it wouldve been pretty dumb to give up on a 2nd rounder after one season. I seem to recall many “experts” thinking Clemens was a decent pick.

Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.

by YankeesJets on Jan 31, 2012 7:09 PM EST reply actions  

I Understand Your Questions

All GMs have misses and there is no such thing as a perfect draft. That doesn’t mean that even the best drafts couldn’t have been better or equally as good, however. Tanny built teams that were very close to the big game, but did they make it to and win the big game? Did they make it back to the AFC Championship Game or even the playoffs this year? Obviously, the team he built didn’t last. He tore the teams of 2009 and 2010 apart because he felt there were flaws and he thought he could make them better.

I’m not saying they should have taken Schaub after having taken Clemens the year before. That would have been stupid. I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear. My point was that the Jets should not have taken Clemens. Tanny would have known that Schaub was scheduled to be an RFA in 2007. Schaub had already proven himself a quality NFL player with real starting potential. As I remember it most of the experts were very high on Schaub, as were most of the Jets fans on the site(s) where I posted. I only remember one or two experts (Jaworski, I think) who thought Clemens was a good prospect, and most of the draftniks on the board or boards where I was posting weren’t high on Clemens at all. I think the Jets would have been better served in 2006 signing a FA to back up Chad, and they could have taken a developmental QB in the lower rounds, then going after Schaub or a better QB prospect in the 2007 draft. Even though the Jets liked Chad, he had proven himself fragile by that point, and I don’t think they drafted Clemens in the 2nd round with the idea of his being a career clipboard holder. I think they had already made up their minds that Chad would be “the guy” for much longer. Thus, I think a big mistake was made in going for Clemens over Schaub. If not Schaub, then I also think Jeff Garcia would have been a better option than Clemens. He could have given them a number of years as a quality starter, and they would have had a veteran in place to tutor whatever young developmental QB they wound up securing in a future draft.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Feb 1, 2012 12:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Im really not sure why they never bothered with Schaub as he was always considered to be the real deal

Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.

by YankeesJets on Feb 1, 2012 12:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Everybody saying this was a great draft for the Jets,

you are correct. But it is also a terrible one. It sounds like a paradox yes. I’ve been researching to write a fanpost on this actually and think joeklecko is doing a very good job. As a GM Tanny isn’t only responsible to put starters on the field he is responsible to have adequate backups and quality prospects that can be future starters. With the drafts Tanny has had you can look at them and go “WOW he got 2 pro bowlers and a solid starter from the draft in year XXXX and thats been a theme throughout all of his time here!” but in reality it should be “He drafted a very limited number of players, who many of whom are great players, but crippled the team by leaving depth problems from all of his trades up.”

3 teams that have been very successful over the past two years are the Packers of last year, and the Pats and Giants of this year. Green Bay had the depth that they were fielding players on defense that nobody had ever heard of. The Pats were devastated by injuries in the defense. The Giants got hit hard by injuries early in the year to their LBs and some D lineman. All of these teams are still successful. Why? Because they picked players in the draft for DEPTH and developed them. Last year Jim Leonard goes down and the defense falls apart for a few games until the coaches start changing the defensive calls to suite a more soft coverage D. This year Leonard goes down again and the defense slips, and who is there to replace him! The safety we have been grooming for a year or two that we picked up late in the draft? No, we play the safety that got benched this year because of poor play and sign a few undrafted free agents to help fill the holes.

The problem with Tanny’s style is he wants an Madden video game style team, Pro bowlers at every position. What sucks with that is he takes holes in the roster and trades picks for players. He gets quality players in the trades but they all are at the end of their contract and usually walk or want big money. So they leave after a year or two and now leave a gaping hole in the roster, less picks in the draft so they can’t be replaced, and it usually leads to a old player being signed as a hired gun (see Jason Taylor, Derrick Mason, Plax etc). If he just kept the picks in the first place and tried to develop some young talent the team would have much fewer holes.

Stop saying these posts are wastes of time. They are valid assessments of the GM position and should be looked at objectively, most people seem to be very offended by the idea of criticizing Tannenbaum. Read the work and appreciate the effort even if you don’t agree. Also try to not nitpick EVERY argument made by a person, yeah a few thing some people say may be mistaken or exaggerated, get the point he is trying to make and make a valid argument to oppose it, as opposed to pointing fingers and going “line 18 has something that’s not true, so your argument sucks!”

by flixenuz on Jan 31, 2012 7:26 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

+1

well said . the fans who pay the guys wages should be able to give an honest and in joe’s case a very in depth one .
yes tanny made some good picks and some bad picks but he is also the main reason we always seem to be battling to get under the cap . he uses draft picks on older guys who want bigger contracts in trades rather than getting players who cost less from the draft . people say tanny is a cap genius but is it really genius to keep having to fix the same problem year after year ?

follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16

Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland

by tinley24 on Jan 31, 2012 7:48 PM EST up reply actions  

absolutely disagree
Green Bay had the depth that they were fielding players on defense that nobody had ever heard of.

No, actually Green Bay’s defense sucks.

The Pats were devastated by injuries in the defense.

Once again, their defense sucks. Their success in overcoming their defensive inadequacies have nothing to do with their depth and everything to do with their coaching and offense.

The Giants got hit hard by injuries early in the year to their LBs and some D lineman.

Yes, and in the beginning of the year, the Giants sucked.

All of these teams are still successful. Why? Because they picked players in the draft for DEPTH and developed them.

Excuse me? All your examples had NOTHING to do with depth and everything to do with their offensive players picking up the slack. The only case you can make are the Packers last year that suffered injuries to both sides of the ball, yet had Rodgers establish himself has THE elite QB in the league.

The problem with Tanny’s style is he wants an Madden video game style team, Pro bowlers at every position.

Actually, it sounds like joeklecko is playing a Madden video game, where he can see the exact ranked “abilities” of his players and cherry pick them throughout the rounds of the draft with a crystal ball to make his Pro Bowl team. There is no GM on earth that has that kind of foresight that you’d almost have to call clairvoyance.

Yes Tanny likes to trade up. But I’m pretty sure his plan was to get his team players, spend some on FA but HEAVILY supplement his team with UDFA bargain basement guys. He’s relying on his coaching staff to coach players up to their potential. Guys like Pouha, Devito Pitoitua, and Maybin. Whether it’s been successful or not is debatable. We’ve reached the AFCC twice and once was under the final four rules.

Stop saying these posts are wastes of time. They are valid assessments of the GM position and should be looked at objectively, most people seem to be very offended by the idea of criticizing Tannenbaum.

Actually I’m sure most of us have criticized Tannenbaum more than once this year. The point is, this isn’t as objective or valid an assessment as it seems. Because when you deny two successful draft years and the crux of your argument is bordering on pure hypotheticals, you can only have pure hypotheticals as a response. That is why this is a waste of time (did anyone even say that?).

And I don’t mean to offend the OP, but there is a serious flaw to the logic in the article. You can say he is at fault for not drafting for depth, but faulting him for missing picks when the general consensus was that he had a very successful draft is just ridiculous.

by PowerBar on Jan 31, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Hang in There

If you still feel I’m cherry picking and disagree with my logic/premises at the end, fine. I won’t have a problem with that. I appreciate your reading and trying to keep an open mind.

Actually, it sounds like joeklecko is playing a Madden video game, where he can see the exact ranked "abilities" of his players and cherry pick them throughout the rounds of the draft with a crystal ball to make his Pro Bowl team. There is no GM on earth that has that kind of foresight that you’d almost have to call clairvoyance.

As I’ve responded to others I’m not just picking “stars” that Tanny didn’t take. I’m naming players that I know who were right there within reach of those draft picks, many of whom I remember reading reports on and having watched and new they were good prospects, and who would have been good fits, and filled needs or upgraded positions on the Jets of that time. I readily admit that I’m not that knowledgeable of 2nd tier players and backups on other teams any more. In going back and reviewing the two drafts so far, I’ve seen lots of names I don’t know. Some may be starters on other teams, some may be backups, and perhaps many of them may no longer be in the NFL. I invite you and others to go back and look at the 2006 and 2007 drafts. Look at where the Jets picked and who was available. Perhaps you will see some 2nd tier or backup types that the Jets possibly could have added at those picks as well. If so, please include them in a post. I would have if I recognized their names.

To spell it out more clearly, it would take probably 3x the number of posts I have planned and would take a ton more research to be really thorough and try to prove my points more clearly. I don’t have time for that, and am not being paid for these articles. LOL. I don’t claim to be an expert, but do consider myself a knowledgeable fan who’s been watching the game for 50 years. I’ve posted on a lot of boards, learned a lot from more knowledgeable fans than myself, and have seen successful franchises/dynasties were built using certain fundamental principles which Tanny frequently seems to ignore.

Yes Tanny likes to trade up. But I’m pretty sure his plan was to get his team players, spend some on FA but HEAVILY supplement his team with UDFA bargain basement guys. He’s relying on his coaching staff to coach players up to their potential. Guys like Pouha, Devito Pitoitua, and Maybin. Whether it’s been successful or not is debatable. We’ve reached the AFCC twice and once was under the final four rules.

If indeed that’s his plan, then I think he’s an idiot and worse than suspected. Historically, the top teams have had few UDFAs and for good reason. Generally those players go undrafted for a reason. Players from smaller schools, players who lack elite measurables are often ignored and/or not given the same scrutiny as those from the big-time programs. They don’t look at those players “hearts” and desire.

And I don’t mean to offend the OP, but there is a serious flaw to the logic in the article. You can say he is at fault for not drafting for depth, but faulting him for missing picks when the general consensus was that he had a very successful draft is just ridiculous.

No offense taken, but I disagree regarding my logic. Who cares what the “general consensus” is? Certainly not me. I think for myself. I don’t believe something just because a lot of other people say it’s true. Also, just because a draft was very successful, doesn’t mean that it couldn’t have been better. It doesn’t mean it was “bad”, but it could have simply been better. I am a professional singer. I’ve sung many excellent performances where there were still things I could have done differently or “better”. It doesn’t mean I wasn’t pleased with my performance, just that I wish I had done a few things better. There’s no such thing as a perfect draft. There’s always room for improvement and something one can learn.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Jan 31, 2012 11:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Would you rather read and comment on a well written/ thought out article like this one?

Or 95% of the regurgitated drivel that is spewed all over these boards, pushing legitimate reads off the page?

by Clarke W. Griswald on Feb 3, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks For the Support

I KNEW this series wouldn’t be very popular and would incite some passionate negative responses. For some reason lots of Jets fans are unwilling to objectively look at their players and CS and/or criticize them early on. It takes a couple of seasons or more of really bad screwups before they’re willing to open their eyes and start criticizing. If the player, coach or FO person is mediocre or average, they are quite content to support him and hope for the best. Most people are afraid to risk greatness. They fear going back to be awful. In some ways, it’s totally understandable when one considers the Jets’ history.

Look how long it took for people to realize how bad Schotty is. I don’t like patting myself on the back, but I think that for whatever reason (Probably just so many years of seeing bad decisions and bad play by the Jets’ FO, CS and players! LOL) I have the ability to see the potential flaws and actual flaws before many other fans do. I saw then in Herm within his first month or two with the team and pointed them out on the Jets boards where I was posting at the time. I was told to shut up. I saw them in Testaverde and CuMar and am still being told to shut up. LOL I saw them in Mangini early on and again was told I was wrong, not a real Jets fan and to shut up.

I could wind up being wrong about Tanny, and hope I am because it would mean the team is closer than I think to winning a SB, but know in my heart of hearts that I’ve been proven right many more times than wrong over the years in these things. Still, I don’t expect people to change their minds. I’m hoping I can plant a few seeds and open a few eyes, or at least get people thinking more analytically and outside the box.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Jan 31, 2012 11:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I think your really doing a revisionist history but have good intentions.

I get your point that we could have Ahmad Bradshaw in the 7th. I’d take thomas jones who you knew what you were getting, over one back out of many in the 7th round. And only one had a notable career right? If your going to do the odds, why not also talk about the busts too at rounds 3 and 4 as well as the surprises? Hell, your cherry picking stars out of 200+ picks, and of those players we drafted probably 4-5 every year who have had good solid careers.

by sp0rtsfan86 on Jan 31, 2012 9:01 PM EST reply actions  

I agree with the good intentions

and I’m very interested as to how he’s going to approach the more recent and not as successful drafts.

by PowerBar on Jan 31, 2012 11:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Please Do Me a Favor

and try to keep an open mind until the last article is posted. I will attempt to tie things together and clarify questions and points that you and others have raised in response to my posts.

I’m not trying to re-write history. My intent wasn’t to just pick “stars.” As I told another responder, please go back and look at the 2006 and 2007 drafts and see what players were available around the Jets’ picks, paying special attention to players whose skills would have fit in the Jets’ systems or would have filled needs. Make a list of them and mention them in your responses. Because I don’t have time to follow every team in the NFL, there are lots of players mentioned that I have no clue who they are or whether they would have fit in with the Jets. There might be lots of additional players whom Tanny could have drafted that may not have become stars, but could have been solid backups and role players.

Yes, busts happen too. Gholston notwithstanding, in general Tanny has done a pretty good job avoiding them, because he has traded up for players who were considered to be “surer things” than some of the players down where the Jets would have been picking.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler

by joeklecko on Feb 1, 2012 12:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Revis...

Revis alone made 2007 off season and draft our best in a long time. Harris sweetened it. Anyone that thinks that 2007 off season was one bad need to reevaluate being a NY Jets fan.

Born a Jet. Die a Jet. On XBOX Madden 2012. I Play like a Jet!!!

by oneg82 on Feb 1, 2012 2:37 AM EST reply actions  

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