Rex Ryan, Not Brian Schottenheimer Now Owns Offensive Woes
by John B on Jan 3, 2012 10:11 AM EST
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Rex Ryan's tenure with the Jets resembles the tenures of the last two Super Bowl winning coaches quite a bit. Sean Payton and Mike McCarthy shocked the NFL with quick trips to a conference championship game early in their careers. Like Rex, both have very good minds on one side of the ball. They have been hands on with their offenses and molded them into consistently two of the top units in the league just as Rex Ryan has done with the defense.
Both McCarthy and Payton hit rough patches after the early success, though. While the Packers and Saints were successful offensively, their below average defenses caused both teams to suffer underachieving years.
McCarthy and Payton were offensive oriented guys. They knew they did not have the answers themselves. They knew they had to go out and get strong defensive minds with established track records they could trust with a lot of autonomy. The Saints hired Gregg Williams. The Packers hired Dom Capers. The results speak for themselves. The defenses for the 2009 Saints and the 2010 Packers might not be remembered as legendary units, but they improved enough and made enough plays for these teams' dominant offenses to carry them to championships.
Building a staff is one of the most important things a head coach does. A good head coach surrounds himself with people who compliment his strengths and compensate for his weaknesses. I think Mike Pettine is a good example of a good assistant for Rex. Rex is relatively hands on with the defense even if he has taken a step back since becoming head coach of the Jets. Pettine is comfortable helping Rex to implement his system and does so effectively. At the same time, Pettine provides a good contrast with Rex. He was behind the zone based coverage schemes the team used so effectively in the Playoffs last year, contrasted with Rex's preferred attack style defense. He also provides a level headed foil to Rex's passionate, impulsive side. There were times in those Playoffs where Pettine talked Rex out of blitzing and abandoning the team's plan.
Rex's specialty is not offense. That is no excuse, however, for an offense near the bottom of the league. No matter how much he improves the defense, he is not the coordinator. He is responsible for the entire team. He cannot act shocked when the team throws it 67 times like he did after the Giants game. If he is surprised and angry about something that happpens with his offense, it is clear he cannot trust the guy running his offense with the kind of autonomy required. This, of course, is one of many issues with the aforementioned coordinator.
Unlike Payton and McCarthy, Ryan has decided to not make a change on the other side of the ball. He is not attempting to fix what has not worked. He is not going to turn autonomy over to a seasoned hand. His career is now tied with that of Brian Schottenheimer. It is his choice. If Schottenheimer continues to fail, he deserves to be the one to go down. Perhaps Woody Johnson or Mike Tannenbaum is forcing Schottenheimer down his throat. These two hired Rex for a reason. Woody just a few days ago called Rex a genius. We all know the kind of salesman Rex can be. Surely he could have convinced Johnson that his subordinate was not cutting it and was holding the team back if that was what he believes. Maybe the team is just being nice to Schottenheimer or hoping he gets a head coaching job so the Jets do not have to pay his salary. That would be such a convoluted plan with such meager upside even if everything fell into place that Schottenheimer could have designed it.
As of right now, though, there are no changes. Here is a brief timeline of how next season will play out with Schottenheimer back. In the preseason, Rex will predict a Super Bowl, and we will hear stories about how the Jets plan to give Mark Sanchez more responsibility and ask him to carry more of the load. By midseason with the offense struggling, we will hear stories of Rex Ryan being enraged at the offense's struggles and demanding the team go back to ground and pound. At the end of the year, Rex will be astonished the team did not win it all and predict it next year. It has become the same story.
The Jets offense in the 2012 season is shaping up to be the worst idea for a sequel since Weekend at Bernie's II, and the ending could destroy what looked like a promising coaching era.
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Rex
I know Rex is not a quitter, but if I were him, I would quit because the organization is forcing Schottenhiemer on him.
Rex didn't even hire Schottenheimer either, Mike T should take the blame for the offense
and Mike T has insisted on keeping Schottenheimer, and Rex is forced to back him up
by MetalVagabond on Jan 4, 2012 7:15 AM EST up reply actions
Where is the accountability in this organization?
Running a below average offense for 5 of 6 years with 3 different QB’s is not enough to get fired Rex?
Hey Rex, if your goal really is to win the Super Bowl in 2012, you just lost by keeping BS. I guess next we will hear that it was a travesty that Eric Smith and Wayne Hunter were not elected to the Pro Bowl????
There’s always 2013, but when Rex is fired, they will just hire Brian Schottenheimer as the HC and turn the entire team into hot garbage
It will get better
I’m just astonished at how negative this blog has turned. It’s frankly a turnoff. I visit everyday to truly learn and listen to what is being said on here because of my love of the JETS. It’s borderline criminal the indictment of Rex as a coach when he’s delivered two great years and one okay year with glimers of hope, and it’s even worse the criticism of Mark Sanchez who is truly worthy of the title Franchise Quarterback for this team. Nobody studies and plays their ass off more than this guy. Even if the results weren’t what we expected, he never gave up.
Instead of focusing on all the bad shit that happened you should be commending Rex for the good he’s done this season. He came in wanting to change two things: 1) Improved Red Zone efficiencies. We’re #1 – mission accomlished. 2) Win Home Games — check.
This shows me that when he focuses on something there’s nothing he can’t do. I think there was probably to great an emphasis on these two things to the point of naseuam where it probably took away from the focus on winning period. Let’s not also forget that there was a lot of new kids on the block getting play time who will only get better. I think guys like Wilkerson, Ellis, and Kirley will go beast mode in 2012 and contribute significantly to the game. Cro has improved this year and we’ll add to the depth in places we need.
I think 2012 is going to be a great year for this team. Things have a way of working themselves out, and I predict that changes will happen. I respect the fact that Rex stands up for his coaches. None of us are in the meetings, practices, or in the office late at night so we can only make bold statements of negativity based on the results when we don’t even know who’s fault it is on that particular play. I’ve seen Sanchez make bad throws, receivers not run their routes, and bad play calling. I’ve also seen Sanchez make brilliant throws, receivers improvise on routes making circus catches, and excellent playcalling.
All this negativity is the equivalent of booing your quarterback before he even takes a snap.
If we’re truly JETS fans, then we will stand with the team and it’s leaders through the good and bad. I think Mark and Rex have earned the respect and support of the fans, given their body of work so far. I’m for one am inclined to visit this blog less and less if this negativity and criticism continues to escalate.
by Rei34 on Jan 3, 2012 10:29 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
I agree in that I think Rex is a very good coach.
Now he just has to quit treating the players and coaches like they are all his sons / brothers. It’s ok to hold people responsible. By not holding Tone / Shotty / Hunter / Mark / Smith etc. responsible, you are letting down the guys who do what they are told and do it well.
I had the same problem myself as a director at my last job….I treated people too nice and defended them to upper management and it ended up screwing me.
As far as the negativity goes, I would take it with a grain of salt. Everyone here who is a true Jets fan has been one through much worse times, and will all be wearing green no matter what happens. Anyone else who thinks this is REALLY the worst time in the franchise, I laugh at you, cause if you think THIS is bad, then you haven’t been a Jets fan for long.
I think this site has some very knowledgable people who have a right to get angry. Shit, I’m angry myself…..and what happened this season was an embarassment. But I think we will have a better year next year.
Being born in New York and rooting for the Islanders, Jets, and Mets. Yeah, I know.
Twitter: cmauceri524
by CharlieIsles on Jan 3, 2012 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
+ 1
"It's only through change we learn to grow".
by Canadian Jet on Jan 3, 2012 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
I tend to agree with both of you...
….excpet that I’m sick and tired of being disappointed. Yes, I remember the 1-15 season, the Rich Kotite years, the year we lost to Denver in the AFC title game (and I live in Denver now, so you can guess how much fun that is), and being abandoned by both Parcells and Belichick. For the first time, I finally feel like we have a HC that really believes in the team, wants to be here, and wants to make the Jets great. But the dangling of the SB right in front of our noses for the last 2 years to be followed by this disastrous year has become too much for me, and I cannot stand behind Schotty any longer. He might not be the whole reason why the team did so poorly this year, but he certainly didn’t do anything to help. When the offense is getting 4-5 YPC running on 1st and 2nd downs, then a pass play is called on 3rd down and they don’t make it, that’s Schotty call, and I saw it too many times to count this year.
I love Rex and will continue to be behind him, but Schotty has to go—whatever good he may have done for this team has come to an end. We need a change, and it has to come at the OC position.
Although I’m obviously not going to start visiting GGN less, I think this is a fantastic post. Despite this being a down year there are still a lot of positives to take from it. Good job.
www.ganggreennation.com
by bobdolethesnapplelady on Jan 3, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Name 10 positives, either players that improved or organizational moves that have helped the team.
by DesertJetFan on Jan 3, 2012 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
1. Draft picks doing well, Willkerson, Kerley, Wilson, McKnight.
2. Revis improving from last year’s “down year.”
3. Red-zone efficiency.
4. Acquiring Maybin.
5. Cromartie becoming much more consistent as the season went on.
6. Greene’s hands becoming much softer.
7. Seeing more two-TE sets when Cumberland was healthy.
8. Ducasse seeing the field and doing his assigned job well.
9. Slauson becoming a dependable rock on the field.
10. Pouha becoming one of the best interior linemen in the NFL.
www.ganggreennation.com
by bobdolethesnapplelady on Jan 3, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
Thank you for this.
I need some positives right now.
I loved seeing the team play with the 2 TE sets. Really looking forward to a healthy Cumberland next season.
Okay then chief I will
1. Sanchez despite failing at times posted career numbers in yards, TDs and Accuracy.
2. Despite bitching for more Keller he was the lead receiver on the team.
3. We saw a few 2 TE formations with Keller/Cumberland and at the end of the year Keller/Baker.
4. #1 Red-zone efficiency team in the NFL at 66%.
5. Greene posting his first 1k rushing year and becoming the bell cow.
6. Drastic removal of the wildcat, only seen a handful of times to success, including a perfect Kerley spiral to stone hands Mulligan.
7. Maybin, sack leader of the Jets with only what 12 games?
8. Emergence of draft picks Wilkerson, Kerley, Wilson, Mcknight and Connor in his first solo year.
9. Slauson becoming dependable LG and dropping his flags from last year.
10. Pouha being the damn leader of that d-line and keeping it together.
11. Ducasse finding his role as blocking TE, eventually could lead to being a RT.
12. Cromartie becoming more consistent and giving us three #1s at CB.
13. Dixon, MTV, Ropati, becoming a strong rotation on the D-Line.
14. Plax being a red zone machine.
15. Reduction of LDT’s use.
And the home of the .... JETS!!!
Now lets get a G-D snack!!!
"You might not like that. You might be very cynical about that. Well, f**k it, I don't care what you think."-Roy McDonald
this was done at the same time bob did his I didn't see his response until after I posted it.
And the home of the .... JETS!!!
Now lets get a G-D snack!!!
"You might not like that. You might be very cynical about that. Well, f**k it, I don't care what you think."-Roy McDonald
Great list.
www.ganggreennation.com
by bobdolethesnapplelady on Jan 3, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
was saving it for my fanpost later this week.
And the home of the .... JETS!!!
Now lets get a G-D snack!!!
"You might not like that. You might be very cynical about that. Well, f**k it, I don't care what you think."-Roy McDonald
I was going to say it should be a fanpost.
So people like me with a salty taste in my mouth about the last month can find reasons to chill about the team.
by DesertJetFan on Jan 3, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Check the front page. Just saw your post, Noble, so sorry if I stole your thunder.
www.ganggreennation.com
by bobdolethesnapplelady on Jan 3, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
Absolutely not Bobdole.
Mine is going to be a ridiculously long post with positives, FA recruiting, and Drafting prospects. But I thank you for the credit in your front page article =)
And the home of the .... JETS!!!
Now lets get a G-D snack!!!
"You might not like that. You might be very cynical about that. Well, f**k it, I don't care what you think."-Roy McDonald
With all due respect
In my opinion, unconditional support for a team does not entail unconditional support for the way the team is being run. In many ways, I think unconditional support for the way the team is being run is conditional support for the team.
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Not sure I phrased that correctly
I wasn’t implying you are a conditional supporter so don’t take it that way.
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John; Question for you….first per your bloq yesterday…just wanted to let you know I took your advice and went to the Jets site and put in my 2 cents and thena few dollars worth to the Jets on what I thought of Team Management and the Front Office for the debacle of 2011. Thank you for urging Jets supporters to get off our collective duffs to do so.
Now that the Polians have been let go from Indy would you be all inclined to have them given a shot in taking the NY Jets to the next level? Your thoughts are most appreciated.
"It's only through change we learn to grow".
by Canadian Jet on Jan 3, 2012 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
Blind love for the team does not make you a better fan IMO
It’s great that we improved in the red zone and won more home games. Unfortunately we regressed in other areas…like, say, total wins.
I love the Jets too, but I don’t watch them in the hopes they improve in the red zone from year to year…I watch them in the hopes that they win, and the Jets didn’t do that enough this year.
I don’t think the purpose of this blog is to just say how great everything is with the Jets when things are obviously not great. Let Rex do that. I think we fans can say exactly what we think is wrong with the team when things are obviously wrong, and hope that someone with a little sanity in the organization will get the message and make the necessary changes. The blog lets us have a voice…what’s wrong with using it constructively?
I completely and utterly disagree
The biggest problem with your post is that it completely ignores one very important concept – accountability. As the HC, Rex is accountable for the performance of his team and his coaching staff. One of the biggest problems with the offense is lack of a consistent philosophy. In words, Rex said we were ground and pound which basically means running the ball more than you pass it to grind out yards and wear down defenses. What happened to that? How in the world did we have a game where we threw the ball 67 times? Rex doesn’t hold his coaches or his players accountable for their performance as a good HC should. You list two areas where we improved and consider it mission accomplished? The idea is to make those improvements while not getting worse in other areas. What about rushing? We were terrible. Sacks? Both getting and giving up we were terrible. Road wins? Terrible. Overall defense? We declined significantly. Overall offense? 25th in the league. Should I go on?
John posted very reasonable articles which sought accountability for the way the Jets played this past year as well as concerns about the future. All of them were extremely valid. If you want to live in a pollyanna world where things just “work themselves out” that’s your choice. Me, I like to live in a place called reality where people say the truth. That doesn’t make me any less of a Jets fan than you, it just makes me a realistic one.
"I just build our guys up. If it's trash talking that I believe in our football team, then, yes, I agree with that statement. I'm the biggest trash talker there is." Rex Ryan
by OldJetsFanatic on Jan 3, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Shop Holmes now, get what you can for him and run, the guy is a cancer. After watching Stanford play, i would try to trade up to draft Luck, he is the closest thing to a sure shot NFl proQb as you will see. Forget about Peyton Manning coming here. Irsay fired Polian in Indy because he wanted to draft Luck and shop peyton. Irsay wants to keep Peyton at all costs. Also Polian’s son is a coach at Stanford and highly endorsed Luck, as he should. I am an OK state alumni,and Luck looked great, even though i am happy Stanford lost in OT.
What????
Trade up to get Luck? First of all, you say that like you can just snap your fingers and do it. Not exactly the case. We currently own the 16th pick in the draft! You think Indy is going to jump at that? With what sweetener? Not gonna happen.
Second, you’re right, Peyton Manning isn’t coming here. He’ll be in Indy with Luck as his backup.
by struckanerve9 on Jan 3, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
Let's not forget McElroy
He wasn’t looking to bad before he got hurt.
If people are expecting a different Rex Ryan in 2012, think again....
“I’ll never change” he vowed on Sunday.
He’ll keep running his mouth about Super Bowls and will put his coaching career and the teams hopes on the line for the likes of Tone, Sanchez and Schotty. By doing so, it forces fans to do the same. He and his backers will keep gripping on b2b AFCCG’s that they lost.
Rex’s collapse and losing of the team was as bad if not worse than the way Mangini lost the team in 2008-09 and Tanny canned Mangini for it.
the buck stops with the HC
rex needs to take more responsibility for everything that happens on this team .if he really thinks schotty is doing a good job then he doesn’t know as much about football as he says .
if rex was still DC for the ravens he would see all the weaknesses on our offence and exploit them . now he is our HC he fails to see them?
if schotty is coming back next year Rex needs to put his job on the line and tell management " if schotty stays then i go" .
if its for you it won't pass you
I think the OC issue is on Tanny/Woody more than Rex
As noted, Schotty was forced down Rex’s throat. Most of the coaches Rex brought in were and are good. Maybe Rex should be more firm in his opinions on Schotty (if they in fact are different from Tanny/Woody), but that’s a tough position for a coach to be in to go against both the GM and owner.
It is a little strange the loyalty the team shows to Schotty, though, when they have not really shown it to anyone else in the organization. Maybe Schotty has some more foot pictures on Rex or something…
i know it won't happen...
but i would love to see it. i was very impressed with watching Luck last nite., and i am a critical former Ok state guy. hey …..we traded up for the “Sanchize”, just depends on what you are willing to give up, but that first pick will be shopped by the colts.
That trade would make the Julio Jones trade look like a pittance.
www.ganggreennation.com
by bobdolethesnapplelady on Jan 3, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
With good reason IMO
Luck seems like as safe of a bet to be a franchise QB as you’ll see in the Draft. A franchise QB is almost a necessity to win big these days.
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It would likely take, in our spot, at least three 1st round picks and probably a second and third in there too.
www.ganggreennation.com
by bobdolethesnapplelady on Jan 3, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
I've also heard 2 #1s and a pair of #2s
And the home of the .... JETS!!!
Now lets get a G-D snack!!!
"You might not like that. You might be very cynical about that. Well, f**k it, I don't care what you think."-Roy McDonald
Just so we're clear
I didn’t necessarily say I wanted the Jets to do this. Only that the Colts should command a king’s ransom.
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Oh I'm not either, that's just a rumor I heard about it as well.
And the home of the .... JETS!!!
Now lets get a G-D snack!!!
"You might not like that. You might be very cynical about that. Well, f**k it, I don't care what you think."-Roy McDonald
Good
This is how rex wanted it put the blame on him he can handle it
Meh, here's a better solution to the QB problem
And he’ll sign for peanuts, too!
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Jan 3, 2012 11:26 AM EST reply actions
Can he make weight?
Tanny likes gym rats.
and the HOLMES of the... JETS!!!
Gang Green Nation | David Vill on Twitter
Am I just me? Or am I hot in here?
John- yesterday you said the entire team needed to be blown up
Now your fortelling next seasons giant envitable failure as long as Shotty is on this team.
What happened to this site? Can we at least balance some of this cliff jumping with something sounding like constraint or maybe an ounce of realism?
The team has an 8-8 season and all of a sudden the Jets gets cast back into the dark ages???
Jets fans are so fickle. The team HAS to make all the moves the fans want and exactly WHEN the fans want them to happen and if they don’t we all start seeing Rich Kotite in our sleep.
Just because he didn’t get a boot in his ass yesterday in front of all the fans doesn’t mean he’s not gone this offseason. NONE OF US KNOW WHATS GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES!
There are a ton of HC’s that are expected to take a step back to coordinator positions next year and a handful of head coaching positions open for this guy to slip into.
I have said this a million times. The Jets organization LIKES BRIAN SHOTTENHEIMER! If this kid is gonna go on to a better position it’s in the best interest to remain friendly with him like they did with Mangini. THAT WAY YOU CAN PICK EACHOTHERS POCKETS WHILE HE BUILDS HIS TEAM THE WAY HE WANTS. It’s not all about the fans people! This is a business ran by millionares who value business relationships over anything else besides the all mighty dollar. Fans are not even close to the top of the list no matter what you all really think.
Shotty is a young guy who is gonna be in the leage for a LIFETIME! There is no reason to cave to the fans and make a spectacle of this situation for no reason when the end result could very well be the same. Shotty gone!
The sky’s falling stuff is JUMPING THE GUN BY MONTHS.
Get ahold of yourselves people.
John- yesterday you said the entire team needed to be blown up
I did not.
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That wasn't your quote from yesterday?
It’s not safe for all of us to assume that saying the organization needs to clean house is akin to blowing up the tea?
They sound one in the same to me.
Not the roster, the HC and GM.
If this HC and GM don’t fire Schottenheimer they are in my opinion incapable of identifying a critical problem and probably aren’t the group to lead us to glory.
If they just held this press conference to try and trick Jacksonville into hiring Schotty, that’s the way a Mickey Mouse operation works to me. That’s my opinion.
I certainly won’t bar others from disagreeing. Bobdolethesnapplelady just had a positive post on the year. It’s certainly not prohibited, but I’m not going to hide my opinion just because it’s negative. I have defended the team and members of it at times it was an unpopular opinion in the past.
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Nobody is tellin you to hide your opinion.
You can say whatever you want. More so than any other on this site in fact and for good reasons. The site is yours.
But don’t be so suprised when your view is soo one sided and based in negativity that people challenge you.
You can run this site however you want and you do a damn good job at it.
But I will say something- The site, with the exception of about 5 mins ago has been totally consumed with Brian Shottenheimer when it could have been summing up the season and had a wider focus that could leave a t least a small space for some positives or even room to talk about other negatives.
Your a fair guy and thats how I know you wont be offended at my observation. I just think the site fell into an obsession with one aspect of the team and fed into fans jumping the gun on loosing their minds about Shotty being here next season.
We have plenty of time to get to and will certainly evaluate the rest of the team. This is, however, the news of the moment and important news at that so it gets extra billing. It seems more relevant to me than talking about Bart Scott flipping the bird.
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by John B on Jan 3, 2012 12:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Granted.
I’m looking forward to it too.
I hope you don’t mind but I’m gonna continue to be a proponent for patience of this particular matter with shotty. I don’t see an need to think poorly on the organization just yet. Like I said before We are a few months away from that imo.
I have a feeling if Schotty really does come back, some of our more negative posters will start saying I’m going too easy on the Jets.
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Thats possible.
But if that happens I’ll have your back and anyone else who want to keep a moderate amount of positivity around here. I have always tried to be that guy even in the face of some of the worst times the team has seen. I’m always at least a little positive.
Rec'd
Keep up the good, honest articles.
"I just build our guys up. If it's trash talking that I believe in our football team, then, yes, I agree with that statement. I'm the biggest trash talker there is." Rex Ryan
by OldJetsFanatic on Jan 3, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
The team has an 8-8 season and all of a sudden the Jets gets cast back into the dark ages???
Jets fans are so fickle. The team HAS to make all the moves the fans want and exactly WHEN the fans want them to happen and if they don’t we all start seeing Rich Kotite in our sleep.
Also not what I said. Nobody said Dark Ages or compared this to the Rich Kotite days.
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There’s a difference between mediocrity and Kotite.
I posted a while back that I felt the way Rex handled Schottenheimer this year could define his tenure with the team. I think I’ve been consistent.
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Again were just gonna have to disagree on terminology
The term “mediocrity” doesn’t exactly agree with the tone you have been writing with over the past 2 days.
Comparing Tanny and Rex to the 3 stooges.
Saying they needed to “clean house”.
Titles like “The Jets are run by incompetent boobs” and “Incompetence Illustrated”
All this ignited over the handling of an end of the season news conference seems more like
“End of the world, Sky is falling” type stuff. Just my opinion. Thats all.
That’s just the way I view things. I think there are literally a handful of guys good at their job in the NFL, and everybody else stinks (to varying degrees). For a time, I thought Mike T and Rex were among the good. Now I’m not so sure.
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Think about this though.
Being a terrible team under Kotite brought about changes that led to this franchise improving drastically. When was the last time being mediocre brought about changes?
In my opinion, going .500 is probably the worst thing that can happen to your favorite team in sports. If you totally tank, then you get a great pick and generally changes within the organization. Maybe that pick busts and the changes make no difference, but there’s the opportunity and chance that it changes things. When you’re .500, nothing changes. Your coach and his staff all come back, you get an average group of draft picks, everything’s in stasis. Meh.
by Exystence on Jan 3, 2012 1:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Thats a possibility
I think this year having the 15 pick in a solid draft gives this team room to make a huge improvment with little movement.
I agree with the coaching staff point for the most part. At 8-8 the team could be convinced that a “meh” season like this one was an abnormality to what should be expected.
But with trader Mike and a committed owner, I’m still expecting the team to remain very active. Plus I think the unnatural swings that the offense has taken this year are a little too hard to ignore.
Well here’s to hoping I guess. lol
Interesting View
I like your reasoning, but you have to remember that as Jets’ fans we are like dogs who have suffered cruelty. We are very handshy and expect the worst.
When other teams are chopping off heads both before the end of the season and on Black Monday (regardless of business relationships) and we hear our guys say nothing will change unless Schotty leaves on his own, we are inclined to believe them and assume that Murphy has parked his ass in Florham Park permanently
by Black Dog Jet on Jan 3, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think we are there just yet.
But I really do think there is some stock to be put in the relationships that these guys keep throughout the years.
Look at all the connections Bill B has in NE.
You don’t get to that point by shit canning your OC’s in full view of the paper and fans.
You have to build these guys up so that they get a pay raise with their next job and they toss you a few bones when they rebuild their team.
He may even want to take a few with him when he goes. Mutually beneficial trades are not unheard of. We have been doing it with the Browns for years.
Here’s the thing, though. We fired Mangini.
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Right
But did they do it after a fan uprising or after the media started a witch hunt for the guy despite rumors that ownership and FO people had soured on him? No. They did it with a moderate amount of respect to maintain the relationship.
Like I said before. I’m didn’t saying they are not gonna fire Shotty.
When your OC doesn't follow the philosophy of the HC then you do fire him
Why the hell would you build up your OC and five him a raise when he had the 25th offense in the league. That’s simply assinine. You fire him and then you tell everyone else that they have to get better or they will follow him out the door. We didn’t make the playoffs and we should have and you think I should be happy with the fact that Rex can sit around and sing kumbaya with a team and coaches who for the most part underperformed? Unbelieveable.
"I just build our guys up. If it's trash talking that I believe in our football team, then, yes, I agree with that statement. I'm the biggest trash talker there is." Rex Ryan
by OldJetsFanatic on Jan 3, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
This isn't high school bud.
There is nothing “unbelieveable” about my view.
It’s been proven time and time again that coaches, Owners, and GM’s will work to put members of staff and even players on a pedestal to increase value and deter questions of loyalty to the franchise and possible problems a new employer might have.
Like it or not that is how this league works. Coaches build respect through relationships and look to call in favors from thoes good relationships on a regular basis.
What, so because the team didn’t strap Shotty to the front of that table yesterday so fans and media can throw stones at him that means they didn’t handle the situation the way you like? Thats too bad and you know why? Because fans opinions don’t matter. Only winning. And If the team thinks that shotty should ride out of town on his own terms to maintain a business relationship thats exactly what they are gonna do because you’ll still be sitting in your seat next season watching the game no matter what.
This Team benefited from letting Mangini go in a civil manner and they are gonna try to do the same thing with shotty. Deal with it because in a month when Shotty is gone one way or another your not gonna give a crap how it got done but your gonna love the little trades he willing to do with this team.
I'm not sure what your point is about high school
Because in the world of adults it is performance that matters. And yes, I found your views to be unbelieveable. Your point about pedestals is equally uniformed as hasn’t been proven over and over again. In fact, quite the opposite is true. Coaches get fired and players get benched or at least help accountable for their failures around the league. Go ask Spanoula or Raheem Morris or the Polians. And you neglected to even address the central issue of my post which was about accountability. Rex saying “I take the blame” but then not holding his staff and players responsilbe isn’t accountability, it’s excusing their performance by blaming himself. That doesn’t do anyone any good whatsoever. There were plenty of teams that had to buy seats so their games weren’t blacked out this season. Go tell those owners that fans opinions don’t matter.
"I just build our guys up. If it's trash talking that I believe in our football team, then, yes, I agree with that statement. I'm the biggest trash talker there is." Rex Ryan
by OldJetsFanatic on Jan 3, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
Spags and Raheem coached LOOSING franchises. Like it or not the Jets are giving some slack to Shotty because he has been apart of a successful team and they might even be of the opinion that Mark is the problem and not Brian. I don’t like it, you don’t like it but thats a fact. It sucks but unless you and I are willing to cheer for another team we are stuck with it.
And my point about High School is perfectly valid. Your acting like this coach needs to pull his whole staff and players infront of a bunch of cameras and grab them all by the short hairs and scream “shape up or gtfo” like he’s dealing with a bunch of 16 year olds in a high school locker room.THAT IS NOT THE WAY THE NFL WORKS. Your never going to see anything like that.
Did the Jets say they fired Mangini because his team collapsed and he gave up after being in first place? NO. They said they respected him and liked him but that it was time to go in another direction. This business is centered around formality and your screaming because the Jets didn’t strap Shotty to that conference table so we could all throw stones at him.
What the hell is the sense of bitching about coaches and accountability when were not in the locker room? We have no effing clue what this guy is like behind closed doors and thats a good thing. I’d rather not know everything that goes on. It means this franchise and this coach has learned a thing or 2 over the last few years about keeping things in house.
I disagree.
You’re in the sense that you don’t have a public tar and feathering of the man. But u also don’t insult the intelligence of ur fanbase and talk about how wonderful of a coach he is when we ALL know that nothing could be further from the truth.
You know what they did with that press conferece? They made themselves look like giant jackasses and you know it.
If they keep him, then they all deserve to be fired. His incompetence have been proven for years. And they also look like jackasses if they fire him, bc they went out and gushed over him to try and get him hired away.
Competent professionals in their positions would have said nothing. But what they did was a circus display.
by Crackback on Jan 4, 2012 9:48 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I never said they didn't look like Jackasses, Crack.
I’m just speculating as to what their thinking was. Your right in that this display held the other day was unreal. But i look at it differently. I think fans got excited when they all heard the plans had been changed and rex would be joined by Mike. Everyone thought that the reason was because they were gonna can Shotty. I didn’t. The first thing I thought of was Tanny was gonna help Rex answer questions about Shotty because Rex is a nightmare when it comes to the media.
Huge mistake, sure. But again, I never for one second thought the team was firing Shotty monday so I’m not outraged at all and my reaction to it is some what indifferent. Hell, I was saying a little over a month ago that there was little to no chance the guy left at all.
Basically what I'm saying is
The reason why the fans are feeling like they were made fools of was how the situation was handled.
They jumped right into the issue with Shotty without a single question being posed by a reporter and looked like morons in doing so as they practically licked his sac in full view. But again, I didn’t expect anything less. It actually made me laugh.
I think the fact that i’m not shocked by all this is making me seem like I agree with how things went down. Thats not true at all.
And we saw how your method works
Rex made Santonio a captain and he didn’t step up at all, was a problem more than once during the season, gave up at the end and had to be pulled off the field after fighting in the huddle with teammates. Your way didn’t work. All over the NFL coaches get fired and players get benched when they don’t perform. That’s professional sports, not high school.
"I just build our guys up. If it's trash talking that I believe in our football team, then, yes, I agree with that statement. I'm the biggest trash talker there is." Rex Ryan
by OldJetsFanatic on Jan 5, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Am I telling you that you need to be happy?
Am I telling you that you can’t be mad? You can be a crank ass all you want. All I’m doing is expressing a different side of this whole thing that nobody seems to think is a possibility despite being proven time and time again in this league. This situation is far from over and your acting like the season starts tomarrow.
All I am saying is be patient.
You were complaining about the negativity
You were the one who was telling John B. how his negativity was ruining the site and people wouldn’t come back. Seems to me you’re the one who can’t handle the truth and wants to live in a pollyanna world where problems just magically work themselves out. That’s simply not realistic. And I am fine with being patient when the leadership of the team is addressing the problems head on, not whitewashing them.
"I just build our guys up. If it's trash talking that I believe in our football team, then, yes, I agree with that statement. I'm the biggest trash talker there is." Rex Ryan
by OldJetsFanatic on Jan 3, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
Ruining the site? Really?
Polyanna world? Boy, i’m gonna have to google that one. When did I say people wouldn’t come back?
I can handle the truth just fine. Shotty sucks and I want him gone just like any of you. But again. These things NEVER work out the way the fans want them to. I’m just preaching patience. THATS ALL. I still think this is going to happen (at least I hope I do)and when It does I’m not gonna think any less of the team or the franchise for how it happened.
Just because I didn’t pick up a torch with the rest of you doesn’t mean I live in fantasy world. It just means I’m not suprised by any of this. I’m not outraged because I expected it. Thats all. What exactly is wrong with any of that?
Patience
I think that Woody and Tannenbaum are hoping that Schottenheimer will go away voluntarily. IMO, they are being penny-wise, pound-foolish. But until it plays itself out, it is premature to judge their actions to be disastrous. There is still the possibility that, a month from now, Schotty will be history and a top-flight OC like Turner will be in place.
John B writes: “Unlike Payton and McCarthy, Ryan has decided to not make a change on the other side of the ball.”
Rex gave the offensive keys to Schotty in the hope that he could handle it without supervision. It didn’t work. We still don’t know Rex’s true feelings.
We just don’t know if Rex has been lobbying for Schotty’s ouster or whether his bosses have listened if Rex was making that case. It is unfair to compare Payton to Rex when Payton obviously had ownership behind him.
I agree
Patience for a little, until the interview situation plays out. But can anyone honestly say that the Jags would hire the Jets’ OC over the Patriots’ OC. Obviously chemistry with the Jags organization has to be a consideration, but the results that each of these coordinators bring to the table are SO different.
Were we (Jets’ fans), who watched every play of every game the past few years and especially this season, missing something with respect to Schotty’s abilities?
by Black Dog Jet on Jan 3, 2012 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Some perspective is in order
In one way, Rex Ryan has been incredibly successful. When he arrived, he believed that it would be impossible for the Jets to win the Super Bowl unless people raised their expectations for the team.
Mission Accomplished: Jets fans are ready to jump off a cliff because back to back conference championship appearances were followed by “only” a .500 season. Say what you want, but Rex got the fans and the press to expect the team to be elite.
WRT Sanchez, I’m not saying that he’s definitely the long term answer, but people need some perspective. He’s a QB with a 78 rating. That’s not great. But it isn’t a disaster. The difference between 2009-2010 and this year isn’t that Sanchez got worse. He didn’t. He mostly got better, although certain troubling behaviors have emerged.
Sanchez’ completion % remains troubling, but even in the loss to Miami, even with the 3 INTs, Sanchez threw for over 65%.
With another year of maturity and a better OC & QB coach, I would expect Sanchez to put up at least a 85 rating. That’s good enough for a clutch QB to win a lot of games with a top defense.
If someone can convince me that the Jets can get Luck or even Manning without dismantling the rest of the team, I’m all for it. But the idea that the Jets NEED a new QB is just wrong.
Jets fans are ready to jump off a cliff because back to back conference championship appearances were followed by "only" a .500 season.
People are upset because after one day, the team said in public it would not correct one of the root causes of this season’s failure.
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based on what we see from the outside
we don’t know how it works inside, but i’ve heard rex critisize the baltimore offense when he was the DC there. I think he knows what a good offense should look like. Rex wants to win a superbowl so if he thought firing his coach was the best way he would haven’t skipped a bit. There probably is more to it than we the public know. Woody has kept Schotty there for 6 years without demanding a change, so maybe Rex’s hands are tied. Who knows, we can all speculate but we’ll never know what’s really going on inside there..
Again, people need to chillax. It will work itself out….
BTW, I wasn’t pledging blind allegence, just some patience. They earned it, I think.
Again, people need to chillax. It will work itself out….
Problem is…this is not true. Things don’t just work themselves out. Someone has to first admit that there are problems, identify those problems, and proactively work towards fixing them rather than applying patches or simply ignoring them altogether.
Honestly, I think reaching the AFCCG two years in a row has made it seem as if the current “formula” works. But our offense has looked just as bad those years…we just got hot after we barely made it to the playoffs. If we won our final game and the other cards fell in our favor allowing us to get the final wildcard spot, I’m sure that we’d most definitely see the same crap next year. Also, the media wouldn no’t be mentioning Schotty as a possible fall-guy (which is the first time I can recall them FINALLY putting him on the hot seat).
I know that we’re just fans and we have no clue what really goes on inside the organization, but if they truly believe that nothing needs to be addressed/changed before next season, they are truly a disillusioned bunch.
I'm not criticizing
I think it is a good thing that Jets fans expect winning and not mediocrity or worse.
I’ll be just as disappointed if Schotty is still here next year. I’m just not as convinced that the press conference reflected a willingness to bring Schotty back. I’m in the “they’re being nice to Schotty and cheap” camp. I’ll give it a couple of weeks before I freak out.
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