And then God made Trent Richardson
Trent Richardson Highlights 2011 (via TheU305Miami)
5-11, 225, freak of nature.
In 2011, Trent rushed for over 1600 yards at 6 yards per clip. He rushed for 21 TDs and caught 3 more for a total of 24. He played in the toughest, most talented division in college football in the SEC and he was virtually the only real threat on his offense. Needless to say, that kind of production is... impressive.
Sometimes you come across people that were born to do a thing. Well, it isn't hard to tell whats Trent Richardson's thing. Beethoven had music, Shakespear had drama, and Richardson has football. As a running back, he's an absolutely perfect specimen. He has a rugged, compact frame. He has the speed to reach the edge, the quickness make people miss, the strength to move the pile, the power to run through contact, the vision to see daylight, the instincts to anticipate flow, the patience to allow things to develop, the burst to explode to the next level, the hands to make plays in the passing game... and I could go on but my fingers are getting tired.
Yeah yeah, I bloviated a bit over David Wilson. And I still really like Wilson. But lets be serious, Trent Richardson is on another level. Trent is the best back to come along since Adrian Peterson. Trent is better than Peterson. I said it. And I'll say it again, "Trent Richardson is better than Adrian Peterson." And I said IS better, not will be. And thats not because of the knee. Peterson takes on too much contact, in my opinion. He's got this weird thing about proving his machismo or something. But by doing this he not only leaves yards on the field, but he's shortening his career. You'll notice that Trent rarely runs towards contact. He always seems to avoid the big hit with a slight move or jump cut. And when he does take on contact, he's the one doing the hitting. Curtis Martin avoided contact in much the same way. And by avoiding the big hit, he was able to play at a higher level for longer.
Richardson is special. A generational talent. He's sort of some psycho hybrid mix of Emmit Smith, Barry Sanders, Ricky Williams and Marshall Faulk. Want hear a really cool, really crazy stat? Trent Richardson fumbled once in his college career. Don't go back, you read that right. I wrote ONCE. Thats ONCE. In over 500 touches, dude fumbled ONCE. Crazy. Its like God was like, "Ok... gotta give him one or everybody's gonna know."
You can put Trent in the power-I, line him up in a single-back shot-gun, stick him in the slot... It doesn't matter. He can do it all. Dude was born to ball. He busts runs with good blocking, he busts runs with no blocking (see "the run" vs Ole Miss). He can burst to the edge or pick his way through traffic. He can run around you, by you, or through you. Trent Richardson can do his thing.
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If he's available I think we take him.
He’s a freak and he’d create a 3 headed monster with him being one himself lol. I doubt he falls to us, but if he did…. Radio city would get hot
Let's Make sure we play like the f***in NEW YORK JETS
and not some f***in slapd**k team!
by jets4life24 on Jan 25, 2012 7:13 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I don't know I really like Shonn Greene and think he has the ability to be #1
Shonn would have probably had over 1200 yards this year, if we actually ran the ball this year.
He really is a hit the hole back and has poor field vision to find secondary holes.
So many of his plays last year he’d just plow into the back of his own linemen. He really runs alot like a fullback at best, and daintily at worst with arm tackles frequently taking him down.
I do doubt Richardson will will drop to up and I don’t think he’s that dire of a need to trade up for him. McKnight with Greene is a perfectly fine combination to roll with next year, and who knows maybe Powell develops into something other then a back that fumbles in the red zone.
Against inferior players.....
The NFL is a new caliber. The best players he played against in college are probably the worst skill level he will see in the NFL.
I’m not arguing hes great, I just think that stat is irrelevant
by BringBackNamath on Jan 26, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
That stat is better than say...
12 fumbles in 614 touches
by CervezaVerde on Jan 26, 2012 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
The average player maybe, not the best...
he played in the SEC, against numerous future first and second round picks, probably the best warm-up you could have aside from actually playing in the NFL.
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Nice, that's a stat I hadn't before from him
speaking of fumbling apparently Greene never turned the ball over this season.
And OLBs be damned if T-Rich is there at 16 we take him and put Powell in the woodchipper.
And the home of the .... JETS!!!
Now lets get a G-D snack!!!
"You might not like that. You might be very cynical about that. Well, f**k it, I don't care what you think."-Roy McDonald
It's tough to fumble when you run into the back of your linemen and fall over.
Like Greene did most of the time last year.
I'd much rather steal Polk in the 3rd or Martin in like the 5th.
Much better value considering we could use our first to nab Ingram or Upshaw.
AGREED!
I really don’t think TR will get out of the Top 10. I he does, then, 9 of those 10 teams are NUTS! If he fell to #16 and we didn’t take him, I’d want Tannenbaum’s head on a platter. And, I have a lot of respect for Mr. T. But, Richardson is truly special. And, having both Greene and Richardson would give Sparano more wet dreams now than he ever had as a kid! Geez, I’d have more, too!
but do you like him ? lol
to say he is better than peterson is crazy . he hasn’t even played a snap in the NFL . peterson would have ran all over that LSU defence , stopped , came back , and ran all over them again . trent looked unimpressive both time he played them .
history has shown that even the best prospects bust so even though he looks like a sure thing only time will tell . teams will always get bye with the undrafted foster type players or a 6th round brady . using a 1st round pick on a RB who isn’t call usain bolt is a massive waste .
you could say richardson will run for 1500yds in a year but that might mean Greene only run for 500yds . i bet we could find a guy later in the draft that wouldn’t be to far behind that type of production when you add Greene’s yards in .
does that make him worthy of a 1st round pick when we have so many holes on the team ? i’m not convinced.
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
teams will always get bye with the undrafted foster type players or a 6th round brady .
What hell does that even mean? You can find a good anything later in the draft. Special is special. And when special is there for the taking, slapping you in the face, then you take it. Trent Richardson is obviously special. If he falls within range we better take him without blinking.
he didn't look special against LSU twice
its easy to say a guy is special but a RB needs to be hall of fame for me to want to use a 1st round pick on .
i’d rather have Forte , Rice , Foster or McCoy over him because they are proven players and none of them were 1st round picks . i’d rather a special RB like those guys and draft a special guy at any other position .
RB has lost so much value that i reckon TE will overtake it as a more important position of value in the draft sooner rather than later .
if he was so special he would be a top 3 pick , hell indy would draft the guy to take the pressure off Manning . the reason RB’s fall is because they are a dime …………. you can finish the saying . that’s how low RB’s value are in the NFL now , they are the only position where they have a saying directed at them to show how much value they have lost
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i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
by tinley24 on Jan 25, 2012 8:52 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I really like Trent but
if he falls to us, i say we trade that pick to get a bunch extra picks in return.
rec'd
Totally agree.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler
Hah
I had to look up Usain Bolt. Nice reference!
cheers
but i see him more of a wr lol
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
i've always salivated at the thought of bolt as a wr
you kidding? a guy 6’5" and that fast!!!!!!!!
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
he is so fast he could play QB and catch his own passes
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
Renaldo Nehemiah. Plus every receiver for the Raiders ever. It just never works.
Staff Writer
www.ganggreennation.com
by bobdolethesnapplelady on Jan 26, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
it'd be intriguing though
bolt is the fastest dude alive. i’m sorry, but every raiders receiver ever would be blown to dust by the guy
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
And if he gets stiff armed off the line by a CB, it doesn’t matter. He’s running 100 yards or whatever without anyone coming near him. You don’t have the same speed with people pushing and shoving and not letting you get a clean break. Then you have to actually CATCH the ball, something he’s never had to do.
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by bobdolethesnapplelady on Jan 27, 2012 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
thats why i'm intrigued
i wonder what would happen if he worked on that stuff. yeah sure the dude couldnt come straight in and play but give him a yr of practice. granted it probably couldnt work but it certainly isnt insanely far fetched. the guy makes chris johnson (the non-2011 version) look slow
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
of course it is
but he’s still way way faster than any current nfl player
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
Yeah there are a few exceptions but generally, it never works.
Staff Writer
www.ganggreennation.com
by bobdolethesnapplelady on Jan 27, 2012 9:06 AM EST up reply actions
just looking at the above footage
some of his big runs you could drive a bus through those holes they were that big . he is impressive build and speed wise but a 1st round RB are almost extinct . will he have a good career ? probably . will he have a great career ? maybe.
can we find a guy later in the draft to have a good career ? yes . can we find a guy later in the draft to have a great career ? yes .
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
Some of his runs you can drive a bus through? Really?
My God man, did you see the run against Ole Miss? Drive a truck through that.
show me a run against LSU where he did something special or broke something through a small gap
could you not see some of his big runs you could drive a bus through ? i’m not making it up , i’m just pointing out that some of the defending was shocking .
LSU was the only time he came up against a quality defence , all the others are a million miles away from the type of defences he will face week in week out in the NFL
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
Thats a DL he trucks when he runs through one of those holes “you can drive a bus through.” Nonsense. Dude rushed for 6 per in the freaking SEC. Don’t talk to me about quality defenses.
kent st 2.4 ypc
not exactly AP or special
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
North Texas 15.2
Are we really gonna play the cherry-picking game?
oh and he ran for 5.9 not that it makes much difference
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
the thing about this type of footage
is there is also some that shows him losing yards too. doesn’t prove anything either way
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
You ask for footage, you get it. You get it, and then you say it doesn't mean anything.
This is comical. Haterz gonna hate.
no realist gonna be real
if we had the 1st pick of the draft would you still take him ?
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
would you give up our top 4 picks to get him
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
catch and run was a blown coverage . AP would have taken that to the house .
and on truck this i thought i was watching a re run of mendenhall against us last year , some poor tackles but he took advantage well
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
so stop taking them lol
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
god
he’s going to be great. crack, what’s his projected 40 time? he’s a machine. i’d still rather go with needs though.
"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengel
i cant spell a nosebleed
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I retract my earlier statement.
If we can get a king’s ransom for someone wanting him, I say sell the pick. Personally a 1st and an early 2rd would make me happy for it,
And the home of the .... JETS!!!
Now lets get a G-D snack!!!
"You might not like that. You might be very cynical about that. Well, f**k it, I don't care what you think."-Roy McDonald
that's the thing
nobody will pay a kings ransom to move up for a RB . why would they , they could take Polk in the 2nd
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
so why not give a 1st and 3rd for Ray Rice ?
Bryan Thomas and Shonn Greene is not what i would consider a " kings ransom " and Richardson isn’t fit to clean Jim Browns jock strap .
see my above comment about drugs lol
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
I love him and have been bumping him on here for about two months now...
but if Upshaw and him were both available at 16….I think I’d rather get Upshaw. Just a bigger need and he is exactly the type of player we NEED. Richardson is basically a luxury. If Upshaw was gone and Richardson was there at 16 then I’d love us taking him.
"Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
Leo Durocher
I'm on Twitter: @LiveLoveNYJets
Frequent blogger for GGN and MTD
Staff Blogger for nflmocks.com
funny
Just a bigger need and he is exactly the type of player we NEED.
i remember arguing with you about the bpa principle. i believe you wanted to go with the bpa. what made you change your mind?
"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengel
i cant spell a nosebleed
The Official Seinfeld Gif-Man of GGN!!!!!!!!
i'm a moderator for GGN. I will accept tribute.
Well if Trent and Upshaw fell to us, I really don’t think the dropoff in value would be that big. I think Upshaw is a top 10 prospect while Richardson is a top 5. If the value gap is only 5 picks, then I think I’d rather go with the player who will satisfy a big need the Jets have as well.
"Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
Leo Durocher
I'm on Twitter: @LiveLoveNYJets
Frequent blogger for GGN and MTD
Staff Blogger for nflmocks.com
by LiveLoveNYJets on Jan 25, 2012 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
i guess
but if trent can be one of the best rb’s in the league, and we’re going to go back to 50/50, you have to wonder what we might do. there are so many possibilities.
"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengel
i cant spell a nosebleed
The Official Seinfeld Gif-Man of GGN!!!!!!!!
i'm a moderator for GGN. I will accept tribute.
I know. It's really enticing.
I really hope both don’t fall to us lol. It’d be really hard to decide which direction to go.
"Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
Leo Durocher
I'm on Twitter: @LiveLoveNYJets
Frequent blogger for GGN and MTD
Staff Blogger for nflmocks.com
by LiveLoveNYJets on Jan 25, 2012 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
I would like to say a few things based on what I've watched over the last three years.
Honestly, this year was nothing. I really mean that, this year was nothing; I still believe I have never seen Richardson’s full potential. However, this year is an excellent sign of things to come. Look at the Ole Miss run, for example. He sees an outside hole when all the reads are to look inside, he cuts in between two defenders without even having to do anything, and he knows exactly where to go. He has amazing vision; a lot of his success this year was due to the blocking scheme we had. Basically, the offensive line would try to open up anything (ANYTHING) and Richardson would burst through the first hole he sees. It is very rare that I have seen a back with the vision to be able to do that.
Point #2: I have never seen anyone post this, but Richardson is a workout FREAK. He is LIMITED to benching 475 pounds. He is LIMITED to squatting 650 pounds. Seriously, he was probably one of the stronger people on the Alabama team this year. Last year, I remember that someone from Ole Miss said that Richardson has a higher bench press than their defensive lineman RECORD. He was Florida state weightlifting champion in high school. It’s rare to have a running back that strong.
Point #3: He is a lot faster than people have seen this year. All this year he has been suffering from a nagging hamstring injury. I didn’t see the burst that he used to have until the LSU national championship where he bounced it outside and outran everyone. If he can avoid hammy problems, he is deceptively fast.
Point #4: Look at the way his body is set up. His point of attack is low. This is what makes Trent so successful… He can burst out of this stance at once, be it toward the defender, to the side, or backwards. And he can get back up to speed on a dime.
Point #5: Did I mention he was strong?
Finally, I will leave you with a highlight from the Auburn game this year. Please scroll to 2:59. You will understand. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OpOsX-etLc
You may be wondering how I love Alabama AND I love the Jets... I'll just tell you that the answer is complicated and will take too long to explain.
I AM WITH YOU
Crackback I am all in on the t rich bandwagon, we are gonna be a big time running team he is our solution not greene (and I love greene) I just think t rich is gonna be sick at the next level. Our O line disappointed all year, they wont be with this kid. We need the homerun threat out of the backfield.
just a hunch crack
but something tells me you really like this richardson fellow…… ;)
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
you love
all god rb’s, don’t you? that video above and what bamajets said is all i need. he’s going to be good.
"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengel
i cant spell a nosebleed
The Official Seinfeld Gif-Man of GGN!!!!!!!!
i'm a moderator for GGN. I will accept tribute.
well well well
all god rb’s
hmmmmm rtj, something tells me our religion frowns upon that…….. ;)
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
whoops
i usualy catch that one.
"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengel
i cant spell a nosebleed
The Official Seinfeld Gif-Man of GGN!!!!!!!!
i'm a moderator for GGN. I will accept tribute.
Love It
Honestly if there’s at 16 I don’t see how we don’t take him. He’d be the best player available imo. Only way I would see us not taking him is if Upshaw was there too. But honestly I’m not really a huge fan of upshaw. Everyone talks about his pass rush ability but he’s only had 16.5 sacks in the past two years. He’s short, and doesn’t have that quick a burst off the ball. I’m not sure he really turns the corner and bends like some of the better pass rushers to have come recently have. I mean hopefully I’m wrong. I questioned how good Clay Matthews was going to be after never having that type of sack production before but he was great in his first two seasons with the Packers.
by RevisIsland&Alcrotraz on Jan 25, 2012 10:42 PM EST reply actions
BTW
Anybody else notice that on that run against Ole Miss the guy who he jukes the hell out of on the way to scoring is the very first guy who’s tackle he breaks. Haha I think that’s hilarious
by RevisIsland&Alcrotraz on Jan 25, 2012 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
this
is why i’m happy we finaly have a middle round draft pick. a guy falls down a little bit, we got him. there is always 1 or 2 top ten guys who slip a little.
"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengel
i cant spell a nosebleed
The Official Seinfeld Gif-Man of GGN!!!!!!!!
i'm a moderator for GGN. I will accept tribute.
by rexthejet on Jan 25, 2012 11:41 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Well, it isn’t hard to tell whats Trent Richardson’s thing. Beethoven had music, Shakespear had drama, and Richardson has football
ok, rec’d. you got me
"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengel
i cant spell a nosebleed
The Official Seinfeld Gif-Man of GGN!!!!!!!!
i'm a moderator for GGN. I will accept tribute.
Citing Curtis Martin as a similar RB
doesn’t help your case any. In fact it’s an insult to Richardson. CuMar left a TON of yards on the field during his career. He’d go down if defenders looked at him sternly. He’d run out of bounds, he’d get tripped up and go down immediately. He never delivered hits to defenders.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler
Oh I get it. We’re going to take a very specific example of a thing applied in a very limited sense and we’re going to use that to make very broad and sweeping generalizations about an unrelated topic just for the sake of being oppositional. Cool story.
Nowhere did I say he was a similar RB to Curtis Martin. I said he has a knack for avoiding the big hit by making a quick move or cut, which is something that Martin used to do. But to take that very small and limited example and to extrapolate from that “Richardson is like Martin” is stupid. Thank God you’re not the GM of this team.
by Crackback on Jan 26, 2012 1:14 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
But since you brought him up…
Martin was as tough as they come. Dude strapped up every game regardless of the pain he was in, and you never noticed so much as a limp from him. Dude had an uncanny ability to find a sliver to burst through when there appeared to be nothing there. He had as much heart as any player I’ve ever seen.
How dare you come on to a Jets site and shit on Curtis Martin!!! What the hell is the matter with you?!?!!
by Crackback on Jan 26, 2012 1:17 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
chill crack chill
i agree w/ you about curtis but calm down
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
FOFLMAO
Whatever dude. Looking at your responses to Tinley, you were already pissed that someone dared to disagree with you. Been drinking too much tonight or a little too full of ourself today?
You’re the one who made the comparison with Martin in that specific regard to Curtis avoiding big hits. You made no distinctions and conveniently didn’t tell the whole story with regards to CuMar’s avoiding big hits. I just pointed out the whole story with CuMar’s avoiding big hits. You can’t just say that the way CuMar avoided big hits is by making a “slight move or jump cut” because that isn’t true in any way, shape or form.
IMO CuMar is the most overrated and overhyped player in Jets’ history. All the talk about his being a “warrior” was ridiculous. He was NOT an elite RB. He wasn’t even great. He was just very good at a lot of different things. He was lucky to avoid injury for so long, but helped create that luck by never fighting for extra yardage and going down so easily. He never kept opposing DCs up at night figuring out how to stop him. It took him 2-3 times the carries to get his yards that it took other RBs to get the same yards. Too much of the offense was centered around him. He had a compulsive need to cut back. The number of times I saw him make unnecessary cut backs and run right into a defender is ridiculous.
I have every right to state my opinion on any Jets player. I don’ blindly worship ever player that’s put on a Jets’ uniform. This is a Jets’ site. If you disagree with my take on Martin fine. I know that lots of others do too, but I also know that I’m not alone. There are a lot of Jets fans who agree with me. I think he held the team back for years. For someone who “never” fumbled, he had the two biggest fumbles of any player during his tenure with the Jets that cost the team more than any other turnover. He fumbled in the Denver playoff game and fumbled on the play in the opening game vs NE that caused Vinny to tear his achilles.
You just don’t like it when anyone disagrees with you and challenges your opinions. You need to get over yourself.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler
Joe, Why so hard on CuMar? Man rushed for a ton of yards in his career and he didn’t get all of that by running E <→W. Agree there are different types of Running Backs….some are more Finesse in their style and others are down right Punishing. But those styles can also effect the runner’s longevity in the league.
"It's only through change we learn to grow".
Sorry
but that’s just my honest opinions of him as a player. He was a solid citizen and teammate, I just think he was overrated by fans and the Jets CS and FO and he was the focus of the offense for too long yet he wasn’t a player that inspired fear in anyone. He couldn’t take it to the house from anywhere on the field. If opposing Ds were disciplined, then the cutback lanes disappeared. In big games he disappeared. Most of his yardage came against weaker teams. He was a very good back, but not great by any stretch of the imagination imo. That’s just the way I see it. The stats also back me up.
Look at his career YPC and how many rushes it took for him to amass those yards. Other backs were getting similar yards every year, scoring more TDs and on less carries. He had one career year towards the end that put him over the top. Take that year away and I doubt some fans would love him as much as they do.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler
Sorry but I cant agree with ya
Im with you on the blind worship crap I see here from many but as far as Martin goes, you are wrong. Was he Barry Sanders or Jim Brown? Hell no. Curtis was a guy who was consistent though. Every Sunday you knew what you were going to get out of Martin. The guy is no doubt going to the HOF, and you dont get in there just being an average player. Maybe in MLB you can get in as an average player but not in the NFL.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
That's Cool
I know that many Jets fans disagree with me regarding CuMar. I can live with that. I don’t think I’m wrong. I think you and those who overvalue him are wrong. I didn’t say he was average. I said he was very good. I just don’t think he’s “great” or HOF material. He compiled the yardage he did because he stayed healthy and got so many carries. He stayed healthy primarily because he ran out of bounds rather than try to gain an extra 3-5 yards or went down always at first contact. I saw every game of his Jets career, and I think I saw him break a tackle only 1-2 times in all those years.
Listen for a few years, CuMar was the ONLY offense the Jets had. Then they started getting some other weapons but didn’t use them because they ran CuMar so much. Go back and look at his carries. They usually go something like this: 3 yards, 0 yards, -1 yard, 5 yards, -2 yards, 20 yards, 0 yards, 1 yard, 2 yards, -5 yards, etc. I’ll bet if they compiled the statistic, CuMar would have more runs for negative yardage than any RB in NFL history. He said himself that he had to line up 8 yards deep in order to be able to see the holes. The problem is that he was not very fast and by the time he’d start getting close to the LOS the hole would close, he’d have nowhere to go, and not having the speed to outrun defenders, he’d get tackled for a loss. Now the point can fairly be made that the Jets’ OL wasn’t good enough to take full advantage of what CuMar did well. I agree with that. Still, he just went down too easily. Many Jets fans are just too young or were too young at the time to have seen him accurately with a more adult perspective.
The thing that CuMar could do was cut at full speed. He was a very good blocker. He was a very good receiver out fo the backfield. He rarely fumbled. He was very good at everything he did except maximizing yardage on his carries. Heck, even his own mother criticized him one offseason for not trying harder on the field. The result, the next year he had a career year and led the NFL in rushing I think for the ONLY time in his career. IMO HOF RBs should consistently lead the NFL in rushing or be in the top 3.
He was a great Jet because of his attitude, work ethic, etc., but I just don’t see him as being as great as many portray him.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler
I actually agree with your assessments of Martin as a player, I disagree with the way you value them
If the guy leaves 2 yards on the field to get down and save his body, so be it. It may not fit with the “sacrifice your body for da team!!” mantra, but it kept him productive and healthy for a very long time. Emmitt Smith did the same thing. Maybe Martin wasn’t as talented or as magical as a guy like Thurman Thomas or Marshall Faulk or Terrell Davis at their peak, but he was able to be a very good back for a longer time than any of them and was able to turn in his best season of his career at an advanced age.
That's Fair
I did say he was a very good back.
I don’t recall Emmitt Smith going down as easily as CuMar. I remember him as a player that fought for extra yards, but perhaps since I hate the Cowboys and didn’t watch them that often I am mistaken.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler
He did fight but he was smart about it
Beyond his canny for making himself small, he often went out of bounds rather than fight for a yard and take a big hit if he had the first.
by J-Nasty on Jan 26, 2012 4:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Crack….thx for sticking up for #28…..he was truly a favourite to watch.
"It's only through change we learn to grow".
here's to hoping he gets that HOF vote....
it’ll be well deserved
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
I think if Trent falls to #16 you have to take him.
He’ll be the BPA there. And enough of the BS about the value you can get in the later rounds. If you can get the next AD, then you get him regardless of when you’re picking.
Sorry Crack,
usually I agree with your prospects, but not this one. Greene had almost an identical stat line his last year at Iowa – 307 att, 1850 yds, 6 ypc, and 20 TDs. He also was essentially the Hawkeyes only offensive threat that season, with no WR having more than 4 TDs on the year! Not to mention, physically, they’re almost carbon copies of each other – Richardson at 5’11" 224 lbs., Greene 5’11" 227 lbs. Richardson has the edge in speed, but that’s about it.
Iowa’s Big Ten, which may not be as stout as the SEC, but ain’t exactly 1 – AA either, and was a much weaker overall team than ’Bama’s been the last few years. I live in NO and have watched Richardson his whole carreer. He’s good, very good, but he’s nowhere near AP. There’s a reason Ingram started over Richardson when he was healthy, and it’s not seniority – seniority doesn’t get you very far in the best conference in college football. Richardson certainly has speed – I’ve heard rumors he runs a sub 4.4 40 – but I see more of a power runner than anything else.
I was at the National Championship game and the one great play he had was the 34 yd TD in the fourth. LSU had essentially given up the ghost at that point and was barely even trying to contain. Oddly enough, LSU seemed to come out of the half looking defeated. For the record, I actually root for Alabama in the SEC – LSU fans drive me f-ing crazy – so there’s no personal preference here, just calling it like I see it. I think whoever does grab Richardson in the Top 10 is reaching and may end up severely disappointed. Regardless, there is NO way the Jet’s should pick him at 16 with so many other more pressing needs. Like him or not, Greene did have a 1,000 yd season and average almost 5 ypc in the last 8 games. With a stronger line and McKnight continuing to develop, I just don’t see RB as a priority.
+ 1
lots of players are great prospects but that doesn’t make then better than AP . whatever Richardson would add would be nullified by a drop in production from Greene and McKnight . that’s why i don’t see RB’s as a 1st round player
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
Absolutely not. Substituting Trent for Greene is a marked increase in production (even if we pretended all else was equal and went by hands alone). And substituting Tomlinson’s run with a more rested and intense Greene would also be a huge increase in production by virtue of Tomlinson’s utter crappiness. And substituting McKnight for Tomlinson in strictly 3rd down scenarios would also be a huge uptick bc Joe’s explosiveness would gobble up much more turf.
but you could say that about 6 or 7 RB 's this year
you are not a fan of Greene so your statement would be true for more that just Richardson . you could add wilson or polk and you would still believe that
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
Greene is not
Tomlinson. If anything, he gets more intense and productive as the game/season wears on, hence his significantly higher ypc in the second half of the season. Greene doens’t have the agility or pass catching ability to take Tomlinson’s role. If we do bring in Richardson we might as well see what we could get for Greene and have McKnight take over LDT’s role. A “more rested” Greene is counter-productive – he doesn’t wear down but instead wears down opposing D’s as the game progresses.
On a side note, while all the disdain for Tomlinson? When he wasn’t being ground into dust like in ‘10, he was pretty good at what the Jets asked him to do. For that matter, he still managed to put up nearly 1000 yds in 2010. He’s also one of the few remaining veterans that seemed to show any leadership qualities and his toughness and devotion this year were pretty impressive. A future HOFer risking severe injury by asking the HC to let him go out and block after sustaining an injury which he knew would prevent him from gaining yardage with the ball – well, you just don’t see that every day. And no, I don’t hold his postseason comments against him – at least he was man enough to put his name to what he said, and really didn’t “bash” anyone. Stay classy, LDT!
Cannot disagree more.
Greene lacks vision and the ability to make people miss in tight spaces. He needs good o-line play to be effective. You routinely see Trent quick moves in close quarters and leave defenders with nothing but air. You routinely see Trent use good vision to find holes to burst through when plays are slow to develop.
Greene also has brick hands and Trent catches the ball very smoothly.
Trent is just as big, probably faster, definitely stronger, definitely quicker, definitely has better vision and hands, and he’s much more instinctual and can use his blockers better and anticipate flow much better.
but all those thing we saw Greene do in college just like Richardson
you say " You routinely see Trent quick moves in close quarters and leave defenders with nothing but air. You routinely see Trent use good vision to find holes to burst through when plays are slow to develop."
i could say the exact same thing about Greene when he played in college and it would be true . the only difference is his hands . but that doesn’t make one guy a 3rd round pick and the other the best RB ever .
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
If there's a reason that Ingram started over Richardson other than seniority... what was the reason?
Really?
Do you honestly believe an SEC powerhouse would start a weaker RB just because he had “tenure?” Ingram started because he was the better option. He won the Heisman as a Sophomore, with a better passing game propelled by McElroy, on a national championship team. His 1658 yds and 17 TDs on the ground along with 334 rec yds and 3 TDs through the air were just as good as Richadson’s Junior year. Even after being out the first two games due to injury in 2010, Ingram’s first game back was a 151 yd 2 TD performance, more than earning him his starting job back.
If it happens at the pro level, why would the SEC be different?
Yes, I honestly believe coaches go with what they are comfortable with. Coaches, and people in general, are creatures of habit. Your post amounts basically to “Ingram started because he’s better, and he’s better because he started”. If you can watch Ingram and Richardson play, and tell me Ingram’s a better RB prospect than Richardson, I’d say most GMs would say you are off your rocker. Which will be reflected when Richardson goes top 10-15 and Ingram almost fell out of Round 1. He’s bigger, he’s faster, he’s stronger, he’s more agile. You don’t need to be a coach to see that.
if richardson is bigger faster etc , it don't matter
ingram had identical stats to richardson but the difference was when ingram played the weren’t concentrating on the run game as much as they do now
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
I completely agree
Trent Richardson is the exact prototype of what you want in a running back: size, speed, vision, the ability to juke past or plow over defenders – he will definitely be an elite back in the nfl. The fact that he only fumbled once in his college career is awesome, but not surprising when you look at how he carries the ball. In every play he has the ball high and tight to his body, and if you were teaching anyone how to carry a football, you’d show them trent richardson. These little things show that he is extremely dedicated to his craft and is willing to do make sure even the minor details are perfect, a characteristic of the best in any position. That being said, I think the Jets have so many other needs they have to address in the draft that I don’t think they can afford to draft Richardson unless they can flip greene for a quality olb/ot/s/wr.
Mark Ingram had the same stats
2009-10 Alabama 14 271 1658 17
He ran for 6 yards a clip and had 1 fumble. I think Trent Richardson is good, but he’s also a product of the system. He’s a pro bowl running back, but I don’t think he’s a need for them in the first round. When I say need I mean look at Lagerette Blount, and Arian Foster. They are undrafted. Is taking a guy in the first at running back that much better than getting a guy later that can give you 1100+ yards and 10+ touchdowns. Forte is another one. Sorry, but I don’t think taking a back in the 1st is worth it anymore. Do agree he’s a pro bowl kind of guy, but don’t agree that the Jets need him much.
Fill the needs with the most talented guys and that’s at pass rusher and tackle.
agreed that you can get a guy later but thats the same at all positions
marques colston was 7th round and victor cruz undrafted. steve smith on the panthers was a 3rd rounder. the list goes on and on at virtually every position. point is, the likelihood of getting a stud is earlier in the early rounds. whats the likelihood of the jets miraculously landing an arian foster late in the draft. i’d assume it isnt very high
lets face it the jets desperately need playmakers on offense now. i’d love to have richardson….
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
What are the chances TR falls to the Jets?
I feel like there is an awful lot of talk about him, when there is almost no chance of him being a Jet….stop me if I’m wrong here….
by mangold'sbeard on Jan 26, 2012 11:14 AM EST reply actions
That is the last player we need
right now. You can find a starting RB in the 4th round
bilal powell? joe mcknight? shonn greene?
we’ve tried that route of picking up guys later on and it hasnt exactly worked…..
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
That's Due
to Tanny’s and/or the Scouting Depts.’ failings, not because one can’t find quality guys later.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler
true
but acting like its a given that we’ll be able to get a quality back that late just b/c it happens every once in awhile is foolishness
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
True, But
I don’t see anyone saying that it’s a given. It’s more than “every once in a while.” Some teams are much better at it than others.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler
what teams have been particularly good at finding those players?
the broncos were great at finding rb’s late but that had more to do w/ their system than anything else. finding good players late is at best an inexact science and at worst complete luck. it wouldnt be smart for the team to hope that they’ll somehow pull quality players out late in the draft. thats not exactly a very smart strategy. the team right now needs better play from the rb’s and if they think that can be fixed by getting richardson i dont think they’d be wrong for picking him
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
I Didn't Say That It Would Be the Strategy
I’ll have to research to verify, but certain teams consistently do well in the draft: Pittsbugh and Baltimore to name two. Houston has done an excellent job recently. The Giants usually do well in the draft.
It may take a few days, but I’ll respond as soon as I can.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler
You can find a starting anything in any round
I don’t see how this guy isn’t the best player on the board if he’s there at #16. I wouldn’t trade up for him, but an offense that can’t move the ball is going to look at this dude and say “no thanks, I’m going to take some other, inferior player” if he falls to 16? I sure as hell wouldn’t, dude is too sick.
by J-Nasty on Jan 26, 2012 12:20 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
jeffery is sicker
he will be the BPA at 16 if he is still there . he tore the best college defence apart with ease ( bama ) and made them look silly . not even richardson can say that lol.
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
it is possible that jeffrey is sicker
and i wouldnt mind having jeffrey either. but j-nasty is right. the offense needs playmakers, be they at wr or rb. i would not have any prob if they decided to go w/ richardson
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
but is joe not the play maker everyone on GGN wanted to see more of last season ?
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
we wanted to see more of him yes
as in they barely featured him at all and we’d like to see him incorporated at least a bit. however, in no way was joe ready to be a focal part of the offense. this team needs a playmaker who can be a focal point…..
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
Must take him
I dont know how we can pass on T-Rich if hes around at 16, guys just a flat out beast. Guys with this talent dont come around this often.
Reality
Hey Crack I love ya man. I love this article I am a big Bama guy and if TR is there at 16 I say take him But I don’t believe he will be. I think if he is there someone will offer up the farm to get him. I feel the first thing we reallt need to get is an OLB. then we need a tackle and a safety. That being said I believe that TR will have a Walter Payton type career. I don’t know how many people saw the Ole Miss game but that juke he did was unbelievable hard to see Greene doing that kind of move
Soooo...
You’d pass on what you believe will be a “Walter Payton” type career to grab some OLB or safety?
Not what I said
What I said was take him however if someone was willing to offer the right amount like a first and secon round pick for example I might consider that. So letting someone purchase the pick for some outrageous amount while highly unlikely would probably be acceptable.
Crack -- great all around info and perspective.
In my opinion the first round is used or should be used to draft a guy who fits your biggest need after free agency.. However, if the talent drop off is very steep you can take the best available.. Trent, while maybe the best player out there, still will not open up holes at RT or provide any protection for Sanchez. I don’t care what QB / RB you have without a good line they cannot do well. IMO RT is that much more important than Richardson if after going through free agency you need someone to start at RT. That being said, if we do take care of our needs, I would love him to fall to us at 16 and have a good two headed attack.
Eff that. Special is special. If Trent is there praise Jesus an take him. If he slips out of the top 5, you get on the horn to figure what it takes to move up.
Watch him turn a routine 7 yard run into a 20 yarder at 4:00. Watch him turn a busted play 2 yard loss into a fucking 76 yard TD at 5:00 (juking #21 out of his jock… twice!!!). And then watch him pick his way through traffic and break like 6 tackles for an 11 yard TD at around 5:20.
Dude is sick. He’s like Emmit, but bigger and faster.
And That's Why
I thank God every day that you aren’t the GM of the Jets. Totally effing clueless!
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler
Funny how you never make posts of your own Joe. You’ll right a thesis in the comments section of every post, but never put yourself out there at all. You’re either a condescending crank who rants “Argh, thank God you’re not the GM, you know nothing!!!.” Or you write 1000 words to say something that could be said in 10.
Why don’t you grow a sack and put up a prospect profile yourself Mr. GM? Instead of constantly deriding Tanny with your 20/20 hindsight, or chasing people off your lawn with a hose because they bring up an option other than an OLB in the first round. C’mon Mr. Knows Everything About Everything… Put up or shut up.
Not True
Last offseason I made quite a few posts. This year has been different. After the strike-shortened offseason where Tanny wasted it chasing Nnamdi and didn’t address any of the team’s needs in FA and allowed several good players to leave for elsewhere, I had a feeling the season would head south. When Turner went down and I saw that Tanny had the team heading into the season with Hunter at RT with no insurance and no veteran depth, I truly feared that the season could be a disaster and said as much here and was ripped a new one here for being so negative. I got tired of the blind homerism.
About that time, things got crazy. My mother’s health got much worse then she had a stroke and died. My father fell and broke his hip and was in nursing care facility rehabbing his hip. I went to see him every day and take him the papers and mail and did his laundry. I also got more students. Priorities and life took over.
I’m back now to reading and posting. Things have calmed down some with my Father, but I also have another job. I don’t have a lot of time to research and write an original article. The things I respond to here don’t take research (or very little). They are common sense things and a part of my general football knowledge.
Having a “sack” has nothing to do with it. You are really a pathetic piece of work. When I comment, at least it’s thoughtful and realistic. Half of your comments and posts are ridiculous. You develop puppy love or a mancrush on some player. You make way over the top comments and suggestions that have little basis in reality or fact. I’ve started thinking that half of your posts are written when you’re drunk. And you wanna talk about cranky? I never have written a post like you did regarding mock drafts on any site. I may get a little condescending at times, but you are routinely downright rude and insulting, calling people “fools” and the like. The day I degenerate into that level of posting, I stop posting on internet sites.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler
sad to hear bout that joe
i was actually wondering throughout the season where you were. i frequently dont agree w/ what you have to say but at the same time you are fairly informative and its always good to have a dissenting voice
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
that being said fellas (not to be all high and mighty here)
it would probably benefit everyone on the site if you and crack just respected each others opinions and didnt spend so much time sniping at each other. both of you have very intriguing analysis and good points of view. its one thing if a guy is spouting complete garbage but neither of you does that. just b/c you may disagree w/ another guy doesnt mean he’s a complete fool and idiot
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
Thanks
Hey, dissenting opinions are what makes these sites interesting and fun. I appreciate your missing me even if you often disagree with me. I have no problem with that. I like the give and take, and I don’t have a problem with having my opinions challenged as long as they are challenged civilly and/or respectfully.
For the record, I do respect crack in spite of the fact that he often chooses to disrespect me. After a rough start when I first joined this site, for a while this past year I thought we were actually getting to be on pretty good terms and that was behind us. Eventually, however, he attacked and insulted me. He was the one that started this latest pissing match. I don’t hold grudges, and I normally let things slide, but I have my limits. I get tired of the constant rudeness and attacks and making it personal, especially when it seems that he just doesn’t like to have his opinion criticized.
He IS knowledgeable, but he also makes outrageous statements and posts as well, which is more than a little ironic considering his rationale for his post on the mock drafts was that so much of the claims were unrealistic and outrageous, and it was too early. Well, his comment that Richardson is better than Peterson is way premature, totally lacking in fact and outrageous. Because he is knowledgeable and makes a lot of good posts, lots of posters here take his word as “gospel.” I’m sorry, but I can’t sit back and ignore when I think he makes a statement that is way over the top and lacking in reality or rationality. I never mean my posts as personal attacks, unless I am personally attacked first. I am willing to let bygones be bygones if he is. I don’t like being at odds with people. I’d rather get along with everyone here. It’s up to him.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler
Was gonna just drop it but then you go and get all “I never mean my posts as personal attacks, unless I am personally attacked first.”
For the record, I’m sorry about your mom and the situation with your dad. That sucks.
All I did was throw a comment at you that you use as whats basically you calling card (i.e. “such and such is stupid, thank God you’re not the GM”). All I did was throw your line in your face Joe. If thats a problem for you, maybe you should think about that.
This is the second time you brought up my post about mock drafts, as if it was some sort of insult to your sensibilities. But if I remember correctly, you weren’t shy about letting everybody know that you rec’d it.
Dude why do you care about what people’s opinions are about me? Why is that thought even creeping into your mind? Nobody takes anybody’s word as “gospel” around here, least of all me. I’ve back and forth with everybody at some point or another. Like you said, the debate is what makes this site what it is.
There’s a time and place to write colorfully. And there’s a time and place to use measure. I use both. By no means am I an expert, but I do try to be interesting and thought provoking. And I do try to think for myself and express original opinions.
I don’t hate to be criticized. I love that shit. I love to go back and forth and to have all sides of an argument fleshed out. I will state my piece with strength and will explain myself the best way I know how. Sometimes I get over the top, sometimes I get playful, and every once in a while I nail it with take that you might not have thought of.
I’m not always classy. I talk to people like they friends (eg what are you high? you on drugs? etc). If i don’t agree with a take, I’m clear about it. I don’t get wishy washy. You’re not exactly Mr. Pleasantness, so its ironic that you’re acting all butt-hurt over my style. I don’t attack people personally Joe. Thats your forte chief (“pathetic piece of work” “drunk” you call people stupid all the time…).
my take
i look forward to reading both you guys posts and comments and both of you talk sense 99% of the time . crack is the master of imagination ie making some wonderful new play to creat more mis matches on offence , whereas joe is more factual and methodical about his views .
people clash all the time over views but i think crack can sometimes forget to practice what he preaches . by that i mean he sometimes takes offence when people, who think for themselves , don’t agree with his way of thinking and can respond with an " i know best " type of reply
joe uses history to make his mind up lots of the time . he looks at mistakes the organisation has make before and tries to stay away from ideas that he sees as the same mistakes been made again . i think in this case he is not annoyed at Crack but instead with the people who follow him like mindless slaves .
i bet if Crack said " lets draft a punter in the 1st round " you would get guys coming on saying " looks good , lets get him " . i think joe sees Crack as a guy who thinks for himself and respects that but that seems to lead other people to stop thinking for themselves and that’s what rubs joe the wrong way .
i think both guys are wonderful ambassadors for what is great on GGN , but they just think from ends of the spectrum .
to use a political comparison one guy is republican and one is democrat . i’m more of a slide voter who moves depending on the subject discussed .
i’ve had my fall outs with many guys opinion wise , but i am open to having my opinions changed and its for that reason i will always respect guys who know what they are talking about . Crack and Joe are 2 of top guys on GGN who know their stuff and both will always have my respect
the above comment is not meant to disrespect either Crack or Joe so i hope they take it that way
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
We all fail to practice what we preach sometimes
With that said here’s my take:
If you’re going to engage in name calling or borderline potshots or sniping, whatever you want to call it; don’t call other people out for the same thing as you do it.
And a little less butt hurt goes a long way. Especially when you dole it out. I’m as guilty as anyone else.
Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
GangGreenNation.com
First of All, Thanks For Your Condolences
If I have said “I’m glad you’re not the GM” first to anyone on here, then I humbly apologize. I can get carried away at times, and admit that could be possible. I really try to show posters more respect than that, however.
Your post about the draft wasn’t an insult to my sensibilities. I DID rec it. Please re-read what I said with regard to that. While the overall tone was perhaps a bit harsh, I agree with the sentiment. What I was attempting to point out was that you turn around and do the same basic things that you decried in your post (being outrageous and over the top and premature in claims).
As Tinley said, I don’t care what others think about you. It isn’t personal at all. I care about what other posters think about the subject at hand (whatever that may be). I like this site a lot, but one of the things that drives me nuts about any site are posts that ignore facts and are totally unrealistic. I realize that often times those posts are made by very young fans, or fans new to the Jets, and what I care about is that they see things as correctly as possible so the level of discussion can remain as high as possible. When I first started posting, I benefitted (and still do) from posters who know more than me on some aspect of the game or the Jets. That’s all I am attempting to do for those younger or newer Jets fans.
If I misread your tone or intent when responding to me and take it as being harsher than you meant, then I apologize, but since we don’t know each other well, all I can go by is what I literally see on the screen. I try not to “read into” or “read between” the lines because that’s where I think people get into trouble on discussion lists like that. So when I see a “are you on drugs” or “get a sack” or something like that, it seems uncivil to me.
I don’t call posters on this list “stupid”. I may think their opinion is stupid and say so, but that’s different. We can all think and say stupid things at times. When I feel attacked, then I attack back. I don’t bend over and take it. I’ve spent most of my life taking crap from people and am tired of it, so rarely do it any more when I don’t have to.
If I offended you with the “drunk too much” comment, I apologize, but some of your comments are so over the top or your tone such a polar opposite from other posts, that it made me wonder why. IMO, “having drunk too much” was a logical place to go since I have known a lot of Jets fans on these boards who drink at night when they post and many have said that they often drink too much while positing. If that isn’t you, then again I apologize.
In spite of what you may think, I do respect your knowledge and am glad you are here. I like your out of the box thinking and creativity.
At any rate, if not for our own sake, but for the whole site’s sake, let’s call it a truce. Peace.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler
I actually mentioned that Crackback had his own following, which I affectionately call the “Crackies”, in another post. I know exactly what you mean about some posters having blind faith in whatever he says and swaying their opinions to his. Everyone told me it wasnt the case. I thought I was crazy or something, I guess I aint the only crazy one around here Joe.
I'm the only person that said anything to you.
You had a really weak argument too.
Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
GangGreenNation.com
well
joe, i do have to say, i wish you posted more.
"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengel
i cant spell a nosebleed
The Official Seinfeld Gif-Man of GGN!!!!!!!!
i'm a moderator for GGN. I will accept tribute.
See I disagree with your philosophy, but I agree with your analysis.
Richardson at 16 would be great. I’d love him on our team. BUT the big issue is we do not have a line to protect our QB which is paramount to us getting the ball down the field. Once again, I think it comes down to who we get in Free Agency, we need fill needs before you get excess. (Would you get brand new Brazilian mahogany flooring, if the roof is leaking?)
To me, we need to really have a good draft this year and I really believe it starts with having a good free agency.
by sp0rtsfan86 on Jan 27, 2012 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
Nah, you grab a generational talent when the opportunity presents itself and worry about the other shit later.
i agree w/ this
the only question is (based on what it appears the argument is here) is richardson in fact a generational talent. if, as you are convinced he is, a generational talent i’d agree that we should snatch him up no question. i’m not entirely convinced yet though that he is
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
The first round should be used to draft a guy who is going to be the best player when you pick
As well as any pick in the draft.
not necessarily
Remember Denver drafting Tebow even though Orton and Quinn signed. Or CJ spiller in buffalo. Even though they may have been “best available” they do not make enough of a contribution to make up for the other shortfalls. Think of this way, if I can improve the one need position, then I can make 3 other positions better rather than improve one.
by sp0rtsfan86 on Jan 27, 2012 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
Spiller would be a useful player if he was what people thought he was going to be
Especially after Fred Jackson went down.
Tebow was in no way the “best available”, that was Josh McDaniels chasing a gadget and a story. Of course, within 1.5 years Tim Tebow was their starting quarterback, so that’s no knock on the draft strategy because if the guy was Aaron Rodgers or something the Broncos would be profiting right now.
FFS
I’m gonna off myself if we draft a running back early.
Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
GangGreenNation.com
Brian Leonard
I’d personally see if we can engineer a trade for Brian Leonard of the Bengals
The RB/FB/HB would be an ideal roster addition, being able to spell Greene, line up alongside Greene and also receive out of backfield
Lol I don't get why...
he hasn’t really done anything in his career and he’s going on 29 years of age. Why wouldn’t we get a proven running back who can spell green instead of an undersized fullback who has seen limited action?
"Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
Leo Durocher
I'm on Twitter: @LiveLoveNYJets
Frequent blogger for GGN and MTD
Staff Blogger for nflmocks.com
by LiveLoveNYJets on Jan 27, 2012 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
He's 27
and because he’s a team player rather than a whiny cancer, he gets over looked.
At Rutgers in his senior season, he elected to take a diminshed role to support Ray Rice as his blocking role made it best for the team ….. VOLUNTEERED to assume the less glorified role.
At the combine he ran a 4.49 despite being 230lbs and bench pressed more than any other RB.
At St Louis Rams he backed up one of the top RBs in the league, Stephen Jackson, he was specifically used to spell him and also support him, yet was able to contribute a 100yds game when called upon.
At the Bengals, they decided to go with Benson and Larry Johnson, yet used as a 230lbs 3rd down back has still able to contribute numerous vital conversions.
He suffers from almost being a Mike Alstott type … not a true RB, not a true FB, but he’s the type of player and character every team needs.
How many teams take a chance on a guy who has maybe seen limited action elsewhere and turns out to be an absolute star for them …. Patriots, Packers, those teams that win Championships.
Dude, I'm a huge Rutgers fan... but Brian Leonard sucks. There's no reason to put him on this team.
Engineer a trade for a guy who had a single 100 yard game like 4 years ago and “numerous vital conversions”? We could do that with a guy who is much younger and won’t require trade assets like… well, almost any back out there.
a very interesting fact
we hace all been told that Richardson is special ,made to play football , yada , yada, yada .
but does everyone know how many of this year’s pro bowl RB’s were taken in the 1st round ?
none , nada , zip , a big fat zero 0% . amazing fact or what . but wait it gets better .
we have also been told we can find a pass rusher in the later rounds, but out of the 34 pro bowl defensive players this year can anyone guess how many of them were taken in the 1st round ?
26 of the 34 defensive players are 1st round picks . thats an amazing 76% .
now i’m not a mathematician but going by those numbers you are 3 times more likely to find a pro bowl defensive player in the 1st round and 100 times more likely to find a pro bowl RB in the later rounds .
just something to think over before people start to go crazy about taking a RB( luxury ) before an OLB ( need ) in the 1st round .
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
you could say that about every defensive position if that's the case
does an olb play offence or defence ?
i find it interesting you name those guys who played RB in the pro bowl below to prove your point but you fail to call out the olb’s who were voted to the pro bowl who we not picked in the 1st round .
is that because if you did name the olb’s you would end up proving my point or are you the one that doesn’t want the truth get in the way of your non point ?
i’ll give you the list of the 6 top voted pro bowl olb’s and the you can tell me if in fact i was telling the truth about it being harder to find a pro bowl olb after the 1st round
ware
hali
suggs
mathewes
briggs
miller
now go ahead and call my integrity into doubt about this statement also
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
Because me naming the OLBs is completely irrelevant to my "non-point"
That being that you can find Pro Bowl backs in the first round. Because it wasn’t whatever strawman you are trying to create for me. Not that this means anything, it’s all irrelevant to the question of should we draft Trent Richardson, just that your reasoning was flawed and terrible.
Hey, more Pro Bowl OLBers come out the first round than RBs in 2011, this would have been a concise and correct way to make your point, which is cool and all though not really relevant to if you should take Richardson or not, but I guess it scores you some points.
by J-Nasty on Jan 30, 2012 9:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
By the way...
Marshawn Lynch, Willis McGahee, and Ryan Mathews were 1st round picks. The statement looks nice until truth gets involved. McCoy, Rice, Forte, and MJD were 2nd round picks.
the 6 RB's voted to the pro bowl were
mc coy
rice
forte
mjd
foster
gore
are you saying i’m lying ?
if rice , foster and gore were available/ fit the other 3 guys would have be looking at the game on TV ,why ? because they didn’t get enough votes .
i’m actually quite pissed that you’d call my integrity into doubt with your above statement saying i wasn’t telling the truth . i try to be as factual as possible when i post/comment on GGN . if i’m not sure about something stats wise i will put up the stat and place the words " i think " in brackets after it so as not to mislead people .
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
My bad, I took your statement at face value
I mean, when I saw that you wrote that 0 of the Pro Bowl backs were drafted first round, I thought you might’ve meant the backs that were actually were on the Pro Bowl roster. Not sure how I could’ve came up with that interpretation. Of course you meant the top 3 in each conference when you said Pro Bowl backs.
By the way, if I were calling you a liar, I would’ve… called you a liar. I’m not here to beat around the bush and play the PC game. I said your statement was factually untrue, which, minus the backpedal/clarifying statement, it was. I’m sorry of that hurts your feelings.
As for your last response about the rate of good backs making the playoffs… doesn’t even deserve a response. It implies not only that a good back should carry a team (which is silly), it could also imply that having a good back is counter-productive (which is sillier).
by J-Nasty on Jan 30, 2012 10:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
you can't blame me for getting a little pissed
when you wrote " The statement looks nice until truth gets involved " either means my facts are wrong or i’m posting stuff to mislead people . either way i feel you could have responded with more class or tact by asking me to clarify my comment or point out an error you feel i might have made, without making little of me .
its all good tho , i’m not gonna fall out with you over a little misunderstanding .
on my comment below i am just trying to imply that a 1st round RB is not needed to reach the playoffs or win the SB . i’m just saying teams manage just fine with lower round picks at that position and doesn’t seem to impede their chance of success .
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
Out of the top 15 rushers this season...
8 were 1st round picks
Ryan Mathews, Willis McGahee, Marshawn Lynch, Steven Jackson, Reggie Bush, Cedric Benson, Chris Johnson, Beanie Wells
3 more were 2nd round picks
MJD, Ray Rice, LeSean McCoy
2 more were 3rd round picks
Frank Gore (who would’ve went 1st round if not for his knee injury), Shonn Greene
Only Michael Turner and Arian Foster were drafted 4th round or later. And this is not even including probably the best running back in the league in Peterson who went top 7.
interesting fact
of the 15 guys you have above only 40% ( 6) made it to the playoff’s this year. and 0% will win the superbowl . of that 40% ( 6) only 13.33% ( 2 ) were 1st round picks .
if you were trying to say drafting a rb in the 1st is worthwhile then i think you actually proved the opposite ie failed miserably
feel free to respond if you think i’m lying about my above facts . i would think a guy who is supposedly " all about the truth " could also put his hands up and say my facts and comments are not misleading and are in fact truthful .
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
Hmmm...
now i’m not a mathematician but going by those numbers you are 3 times more likely to find a pro bowl defensive player in the 1st round and 100 times more likely to find a pro bowl RB in the later rounds .
I don’t think math works like that. But yeah, it is interesting. Ray Rice, Maurice Jones Drew, Matt Forte were 2nd rounders. Frank Gore a 3rd and Arian Foster UDFA.
Running Backs don’t have the value they used to.
your right
if there was 1% then it would be 100 times lol
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
im sorry but Crack is right here
specifically on the premise that we wouldnt draft him to “replace” greene. All the playoff teams this year, with possibly the exception of baltimore, used two or more backs extensively.
if we get trent, we would have one of the better 1-2 punches in the league. We would be the 2009 Jets.
"Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect."
Only player I'd want in the first not named Mark Barron...
Upshaw would be fine if Barron was off the board.
founding member of PACOS (People Against the Constant Overuse of Sarcastic font)
GGN-Moderator
Please Post
an analysis of Barron including links to video. I respect your opinion and posts, but I just don’t see what you see in this kid. I think he’s overrated.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler
awe look at you 2 in agreement about something
they grow up so fast , ( tear ) . i feel the love growing between you two guys lol
now if only we can get sanchez and tone back on the same page we will be set
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
Here's a video...
founding member of PACOS (People Against the Constant Overuse of Sarcastic font)
GGN-Moderator
Judge, u gotta tell me what you like about Barron. I honestly don’t see it. He sems like Eric Smith 2.0.
by Crackback on Jan 28, 2012 1:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Oh he has much much better ball skills and much better coverage skills than Smith...
teams basically stop throwing at him after his 7 int 2009 season. He has better height, speed, and plays more in control than Smith, the only thing they have in common is hitting hard as hell. The only question mark I have about Barron is his speed (still better than Smith) but I mean how many S have that great of speed anyway. A lot will depend on how he does at the combine though, but if he can show 4.5 speed or below I think he’s a good fit.
founding member of PACOS (People Against the Constant Overuse of Sarcastic font)
GGN-Moderator
i'm sure barron will be there at 26 never mind 16
i would rate at least 4 olb’s better than barron in this years draft .
only way i’d be happy with getting barron is by trading down at getting another 2 round pick
barron
curry
mcnutt/ irvin
if we came out of the first 2 rounds with a draft looking like above , i could live with it
follow me on TWITTER @tinley24
i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
U R Too Funny
my friend.
I agree with you regarding Barron, but I wouldn’t be too happy with the draft you mention above. One of the things the Jets need most is speed. Based on what I’ve seen/read about those players, only Irvin is considered fast.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler
Depends very much on the combine
founding member of PACOS (People Against the Constant Overuse of Sarcastic font)
GGN-Moderator
He Certainly Looked Fast Enough
in the video clip that you provided, but I don’t remember his making an impression at all in the last game vs LSU. I don’t remember the first, and I may be mistaken about the second. If the Jets are interested in him, then I sure hope you’re right and I’m wrong!
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." Alexander Tyler
I've always been a fan of drafting by need, not the best player
so I wouldn’t take him. but Tannenbaum disagrees with me so I can see it happening
"You can't believe everything you read on the Internet"
-Abraham Lincoln

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