Can We Afford to Lose Sione Pouha? Can We Afford to Keep Him?
For some perspective, Miami Dolphin NT Paul Soliai was franchised (an average of the top 5 salaries of players at the same position) last off-season and netted over $12 million. What this could mean for 2011's best NT is anybody's guess.
Pouha was very good in 2011 and seemed to only get better as the season wore on. The reason for that could be that Pouha finally got the snaps to develop his game. He held his own for a season and a half after Jenkins went down. He steadily improved over a couple of seasons and off-seasons, and then came into his own in 2011. Maybe 2011 was a launching point for the dominance that is to come as he continues to make strides. But its also hard to ignore the fact that maybe Pouha was a little extra motivated by being in a walk year. We've seen many an athlete, in many professional sports, light it up and cash in on their performance in their season before free agency. Pouha was no doubt an intrical part of the Jets defense in 2010 and 2011. And it very well may be the case that we won't really know how good he is/was until he's gone.
The Jets, however, are not without options if Pouha cashes in elsewhere. Mike Devito has looked excellent at the position in limited snaps. Devito, like Pouha, is very strong at the point of attack and could no doubt hunker down and anchor the middle of the defensive front. Devito has also flashed penchant for being a penetrating and disruptive force in the running game. However, Pouha gets little credit for increasing his effectiveness in being disruptive in the passing game, which is a weakness of Devito. Mo Wilkerson also has the size and athleticism to be freaky good as a NT. He's not as good against the run right now, but he would be a demon against the pass. Kenrick Ellis, with an off-season improving his strength and technique, very well could be ready by next season and he has the raw talent and ability to be elite. Martin Tevaseau has the size and ability to hold down the fort at the nose. Ropati Pitoitua also could hold his own, but his lengthy frame may not make him as well suited as others to man the NT position.
Pouha was a fantastic player in 2011, and his departure may be devastating if he signs elsewhere. However, he may command a price that makes him unafforable. Then again, we might already have a replacement on the roster thats just as good, if not better (a la Pouha when Jenkins went down). Whats say you? Can we afford to lose Pouha? Can we afford to keep him?
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Depends on how much money he's after
But he definitely earned a new contract with us, on and off the field.
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so did edwards
look how that turned out
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i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
I hope we bring Pouha back... but i see the jets pulling the usual by offering him something cheap.
I hope i’m wrong… because sione is a workhorse, and a presence down low. Signing him back at the respectable price should be rex and tanny’s priority.
Let's Make sure we play like the f***in NEW YORK JETS
and not some f***in slapd**k team!
yeah
Ropati Pitoitua also could hold his own, but his lengthy frame may not make him as well suited as others to man the NT position.
i don’t think he’s a otion at NT. i hope we can keep pouha, but i have the feeling that mike t’s plan of getting a replacement in the draft a year before might tell us that he’s not coming back. the question is, how many years will we have to offer pouha. i think ellis is our NT of the future, and pouha is 32. i have a bad feeling he’s not going to be brought back. we don’t have a lot of money and we need help elsewhere. we appear to have a number of solutions to the NT problem, unlike saftey and rt.
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It comes down to cost
I think we’ve probably got a max of $13m in cap space of which half needs to go on our draft picks
Ultimately if Pouha asks for too much we won’t be able to keep him.
Tanny will have to get creative here
Something with some signing bonus money to sign, but only a $800k salary next year. It will probably also have some giant roster bonus a few years down that will let Pouha know that he will be cut before then.
Effectively, we’ll take the cap hit for Pouha in 2012 and 2013 in 2014 or so.
i think he should be brought back
a 3 yearr 20m contract would probably be the max i’d offer and i think that would be a good contract for a 32 year old guy .
this is also the last year we could have cap problems with lots of big paid guys on the chopping block next year so maybe something like 4.5m this year 6.5 next year and 9m the final year would be way i’d break up the 20m .
cutting hunter and smith would pay his contract this year , cutting scott next year will pay his contract next year then we have the option of cutting him the year he is due 9m and hope ellis is ready to take over
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i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
If you're Pouha are you going to go for a back-loaded deal?
He’s not stupid. Thats basically a 2-yr 11m deal from a team with a young, deep DL. No chance he sees that 3rd year. At his age, he’s going to want $$$ over years.
i agree its a risk
but if we offer him big money we price ourselves out of the FA market . 20m for a 32 year old is a decent enough contract , i just can’t see the jets offering him much more than that . is he worth more? to other teams yes .
at least if he turns down our offer we get a decent comp pick( 4th round ) in next years draft if he signs a bigger contract than what we offer .
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i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
If we can't keep him...
I feel that it’d be smart to move Devito to NT and rotate Marcus Dixon and Ropati at DE until Kenrick Ellis comes into his own.
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Pouha
It’s a matter of $ and cap space. Other options will avail begining with FA and the draft. I hope he remains a Jet, but at 33, it’s a value decision. I’m confident that the FO will decide correctly.
Damn, I didn't even think about this. Nice Crack.
As a 32 year old FA I don’t trust Pouha’s season as being legit. He’s bound for a drop off after getting his money. Paying him is not an option for me. He’s not good enough over the long run for me to warrant the money that would be spent. No way.
NT by commitee will have to do I guess.
I have questions about Ellis. He’s been blown off the ball more than I would like to see in a prospective NT. Rex is great with teaching D-lineman tho so I have no problem being patient.
Pit will never have a healthy season. I spoke about him a while back and my opinion is that his size is more curse than gift. He’s too tall to be able to play the game and still be able to protect his legs from injury.
Dixon and Devito are great guys. Slightly above average talent and the ability to make one or two big plays in a game when it counts.
Wilk… Hmm. I’m gonna say possibly but only in really short spurts . After a full camp and a carry over year on a weight training program we could see a bigger Wilkerson by about 10 or 12 pounds. I see him as a probowl talent. I still remember Kiper saying that Wilk could have been a lock for a top ten pick if he stayed anouther year at temple. NT isn’t really the perfect position for his ability. He likes to keep himself clean and keep his legs moving. But like I said, I don’t have a problem with small spurts.
Long story short. I think there is enough here to not cave to a big contract with Pouha. Too bad tho I really like him.
The more I think about this the closer I come to saying something I usually don't say
I actually trust Rex with coaching this position over any other on the field. His COACHING could actually cover for having a “patchwork” situation for a year or so. Young guys like MTV and Ellis showed promise and will continue to do so under Rex. I’m not worried about this at all.
I didn't really want to stay my opinion but I agree.
I really think that Devito plus a rotation can do the job. And I strongly agree that Rex can really coach up this position. Devito plus Rex makes me say walk to Pouha. I really like Pouha and everything he brings, but I don’t think there’s a significant enough drop off to warrant giving him ANY money. We can go with big 4-man fronts on early downs if we have to.
Kenrick is my guy, but the way he was smoked off the line at times has made me worry. I do think he’ll be a dominant force one day, but I don’t think it will be for at least another season. Who knows though, Pouha was his very good self until the Buffalo game this year. Then he had 7 tackles and willed himself to dominance in that game and the light seemed to go on. He was an absolute force in every game after. Maybe with a true off-season and some time to get one-on-one coaching and some work on his technique, Kenrick can have his light go on too.
wilkshake ?
NO WAY. Wilky is built for an ideal 3-4 END. LOng Arms and Legs. The 3-4 NT needs to be a squat guy or 350 pound monster, ala Jenkins. ELLIS was drafted with pouha’s demise in mind so he’s the guy with MTV as a back up. DEVITO is good in spurts but he doesn’t have the girth to consistently take on double teams. when he tried in 2009 he did so with mixed results. He’s better now as a player and might be able to handle the technique. It’s a risk.
Ellis with a full offseason and training camp, lets see.
Also lets not mess with WIlky, he did fine as rook at the position that he’s comfortable with, lets not start giving him 2-3 positions to learn. THa’s the prob with VLAD.
lol. Your acting like I said he should be moved to NT.
I did say it wasn’t his natural position. But he still does have size to gain in his frame and has always shown the ability to move around for scheme purposes. Rex Has actually kicked him inside on occasion.
Relax, I don’t want to move him anywhere.
And comparing a d-lineman learning his plays to a RT is night an day. Completely different.
You can learn your defensive responsibilities for the whole line in a week.
The Walk Year is a myth.
Sure there are a lot of people who perform really well in their last season, but there are just as many who perform poorly. I don’t expect Pouha to perform to this standard next year, but not because he has been paid, but because this was a career year for him, and so a decline next year would be expected. He is going to regress towards the mean.
At what cost? Do you sacrifice a RT and a safety for Pouha? Do you sacrifice a run at Mario Williams for Pouha? How much worse are we really without him?
4.5 million a year
Back in November 20, NYJETSCAP. COM did a definitive article on the cost of bringing Pouha back, Jason estimate was about 4.5, http://www.nyjetscap.com/pouhaextension.php
IMO you get that from Sanchez restructuring
I like that idea.
You tell Marky Mark, since he puts so much pressure on the defense, he has to start paying them for it.
by Clarke W. Griswald on Jan 26, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
and if he doesnt like....
CUT HIS ASS AND SIGN PEYTON MANNING!
Yea I went there…..relax I doubt he comes to NY.
However, If we are going to be paying QB’s good money I rather pay Peyton. IF hes healthy of course
by BringBackNamath on Jan 26, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Very risky
to let Pouha go and rely on Devito and Ellis especially who showed nothing. I will not be happy if we let Pouha go as he is a great player and one of our few leaders.
Frontloaded Contract
We should give him like a 4 yr 28 million dollar deal thats front loaded that basically allows us to cut him in the last two years or keep him based on how he plays out the first two years. We can’t let this guy who was a force in the middle of our defense just walk. He’ll help tremendously with the development of Mo and Ellis. Plus I wouldn’t want to see the job handed to Ellis so he could under perform and then we end up missing Pouha while he’s killing it for someone else. When Ellis becomes a beast (which I’m very confident he will) we can get rid of him. Also on Jenkins, he was an absolute freak and I don’t think we’ll ever know how much we really miss him because when Pouha was starting to get good the line was going to be Jenkins at NT, Pouha at DT( the other end ), and Shaun Ellis at DE. That line last year could’ve been unstoppable, and probably would’ve gotten us past the Steelers. Also Jenkins was a much better pass rusher than Pouha is, I’m hoping that Ellis can be what Jenkins was supposed to be in this system with all the athletic ability he possesses.
by RevisIsland&Alcrotraz on Jan 25, 2012 10:15 PM EST reply actions
def pay the guy
we need him back, and he deserves it. hes 32 but hes a young 32..he should have made the pro bowl this year but somehow Paul Soliai went..
hes a big part of our defense and this team needs to stop letting players leave just to get someone new. re-sign him and move on to the next guy.
honestly i might. id say 3 year 24mil. who would be his replacement? i don’t see them throwing in Ellis when he was inactive for 90% of the season. Devito is good at end, and Wilkerson as well. Dixon i like but hes a perfect backup player, and Ropati i don’t think is anything more than a backup. so why let him walk just to fill another hole? now im not saying just pay him whatever he demands but i think we could definitely give him a decent contract that fits both sides.i just dont know about any guy that would be cheaper and just as good a Pouha.
i agree
we tried that experiment last year by replacing our RT with his back up . how did that work-out for us ?
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i want jeffery in green at pick 16
Notre Dame vs. Navy: The Emerald Isle Classic
Date:Sept. 1, 2012
Location:Dublin, Ireland
You have to take calculated risks sometimes and you can't get stuck overpaying old guys.
We moved on from TJ, Leon and Faneca at the right time. Woody recently admitted that he would’ve spent the season on IR anyway. Hunter did play pretty decent at the end of 2010. Sliding Hunter into the starting role was the obvious choice. There was no indication at the time that he would be this bad. But he was. Gotta eat it and move on. Can’t use it as an excuse to be timid going forward though. 8m per is way to much for Pouha IMO.
I have never agreed with anything more than I agree with this comment
Do the Shumpty Shump, come on and do the Shumpty Shump
Tag
Honestly though I don’t see anyway he hits the open market. We’re probably going to Franchise tag him, then he won’t be able to negotiate with anybody else and we’ll just make our offer. If he doesn’t accept it then we use the year one year to get Ellis ready, and also use it as an opportunity to see if Pouha can sustain this level of play.
by RevisIsland&Alcrotraz on Jan 25, 2012 11:00 PM EST reply actions
Why?
Under the new CBA the tag isn’t so financially crippling. It might be the only way to keep him without getting bilked.
The guy is like Wilfork 2.0 There should be no question that his performance is tag worthy. if it comes to that.
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I don't agree.
I read in a couple spots that its likely to be around 8m. I just don’t think he’s worth that kinda chedda. I really do think that Devito could hold it down at the nose while we rotate in Kenrick or go with more 4-man fronts.
This is a dicey decision we have on our hands. Pouha’s performance over the last two years doesn’t guarantee that he will maintain or exceed those performance levels in the next 2 or 3 years. However, it doesn’t automatically make him an unreliable NT coming to camp for 2012. Its like anything today in the world of Sports……it’s all about the Dollars.
If the two parties can’t come up to a reasonable settlement then the only recourse will be to part ways. As pointed out here by many of you here at GGN. Pouha has been a beast for us at the NT ever since Kris Jenkins fell not once but twice for the Jets. He has gotten better and better at the position. He’s become a Plumber’s Dream – A “Clogger” – he just collects OL’s and jams up and stacks the line. By doing this he’s allowing the players around him to be better at what they are doing….especially our ILBs in stopping the running game. It all starts with the man up front.
So yes Mr. Pouha is very much an important part of our Defense and our Team. I think every effort should be made to sign him at a reasonable and fair contract to both parties. If it can’t happen…then it wasn’t meant to be(just don’t sign in NE). We’ll survive and move on because thats what JETs do.
"It's only through change we learn to grow".
it all depends on
How realistic a superbowl run is for 12-13. We have a good core but are missing some pieces. IF we can get the right pieces in place RT, OLB, Safety then Pouha needs to stay. If we can not get these pieces than the younger guys (K.Elis, Divito) need the time so they can be ready for 13-14.
So its up to the FO (that I have little faith in) to make a realistic determination and the right moves.
Really interesting; love Pouha
Pouha has a great work ethic. That he learned from Jenkins, which is why I wish the Jets would get smart and hire him as the DL coach. IMO Carrier is not really that good, since he has come aboard the DL play has gone down. Jenkins would teach the young guns how to be a high level pro, he also knows all the DL assignments.
So what to do about Pouha It’s a toss up really? He, and Devito are the leaders of the DL losing Pouha could be more of a loss than just his play. With Jenkins in as a DL coach, it will solidify that void, now it’s just a money thing if Pouha go’s with a high number let him walk.
The Jets have many more important holes to deal with. The Draft has some deep prospects that could fill his role, which would be cheaper. If the Jets were to trade back in the first, then get second #2in a high position maybe just maybe Poe would still be sitting there. If not their are some other day 2 as well as day 3, Alameda Ta amu, Nicolas Jean-Baptiste, Brandon Thompson, Akiem Hicks even Ethan Johnson

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