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Brian Schottenheimer: Stay or Go?

We will have profiles on all of the key people for the Jets as the offseason progresses, but I am anticipating an announcement about offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer's fate soon so we will start with him.

Schottenheimer's record speaks for itself. In four of his six years as offensive coordinator, the Jets have finished with an offense ranked in the 20's. He builds his system around the team he wishes he had instead of one around the strengths of his players. He relies on nonsensical gadgets to fool the opposition. There is no coherent theme to build upon from week to week. These are not just Mark Sanchez things either. They have been going on his entire tenure. I have plenty of examples. Remember how back in 2008 with a struggling Brett Favre and Thomas Jones leading the AFC in rushing a staple of the offense was going five wide on third and short?

His work with Mark Sanchez looks like malpractice on the surface. Sanchez looks less comfortable with his third year over than he did at the end of his first or second years. Sanchez seems unsure of himself and what to do on the field. He has had so many different contradictory messages beaten into him that he seems to be overthinking and not trusting what he sees when making decisions. When Sanchez struggles reading coverage shells, the answer is to give Mark Brunell first team reps to motivate him. When Sanchez makes mistakes, the answer is to color code his risk taking plays. The response to his mistakes is to tell him, "Don't make mistakes."

I have seen some defend Schottenheimer. I have never heard anybody give any sort of explanation beyond, "He's a good coach," and "Sanchez is horrible." The second might very well be, but nothing from his work before Sanchez was the quarterback suggests the first is true.

I vote go. How do you vote?

Poll
Should Brian Schottenheimer stay or go?
Stay
61 votes
Go
886 votes

947 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 69 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Comments

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Go and I have defended him at points over the last 2-3 years when people have been calling for his head. However he just doesn’t put it all together, like you say he seems to scheme for a team that he does not possess. Despite what the players say, I think that they have lost all confidence in him and Sanchez’s regression is absolutely worrying. So move him on, give Sanchez a year in another system, at the end of 2012 we will know what we have at the most important position on the field. The real question is who do you get to replace him?

Eternal optimist
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by David_Wyatt on Jan 2, 2012 6:13 AM EST reply actions  

Who to replace him?

1.)Norv Turner
2.)Bill Callahan
3.)Jason Garrett(if fired)

by chrebetsthebet on Jan 2, 2012 7:25 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

clements

he was an offensive coordinator for the bills in 04 and 05. his offense was ranked 25th in 04 and 28th in 05. i dont want him.

by revis24fan on Jan 2, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Probably not getting Turner

because Ryan insulted him and Turner shot back.

The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com

by Cory Braiterman on Jan 2, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

2.) Bill Callahan...

… Holds his O-Line “Accountable” promote the best offensive coach on the team and the entire offense gets held “Accountable”. He is needed now more than ever.

by BachsOfRain on Jan 3, 2012 1:06 AM EST up reply actions  

You knew this one was a he's gotta go from everyone on here.

Someone has to be made a scapegoat of this season. In his case though, he’s not a scapegoat, he actually is to blame. This is a run first, play action team. This guy skipped the run first right off the bat, and skipped the playaction when Hunter started getting beaten routinely. He reduced a good team with good players to a 60 pass dink and dunk offense. He should go coach the Buffalo Bills, because that’s what their offense is based on.

by manuvsteal on Jan 2, 2012 7:27 AM EST reply actions  

For this one...

did you really even have to ask or was it just for the sake of getting a gauge of how many people wanted him gone?

by Mac N Cheese on Jan 2, 2012 7:27 AM EST reply actions  

Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

X1000, looking at the Drew Brees story with him in San Diego would be enough to convince me.

by jackf on Jan 2, 2012 8:16 AM EST reply actions  

shott plays video games w the jets...

…it seems like hes’ just pushing buttons instead of watching whats going on on the field . if your line is giving up sacks , and you want to pass , and have a rollout qb , and a 45million dollar wr begging for the ball , why dump it off ? it just don’t make football sense . i can go on and on w/ simple solutions to simple problems . ….5 offsides in a half is an easy fix . RIDE THE PINE,… …open the lanes w/ a PITCHOUT , heeve one deep out of bounds and your short game will be wide open including the running game , ( circa Joe Walton ) has anyone told shott the opposition watches tapes ? then why open the game w/ a dump off on the 1st play from scrimmage ?…… chez not confortable in the pocket ? let the kid do what he does best , ROLL-THE-FCK-OUT !!!,…its’ not rocket science , neither is it a video game ,…shott gtg !

by g86jn on Jan 2, 2012 8:19 AM EST reply actions  

I agree.

He looses all momentum when he’s stuck in the pocket. When he needs to improvise, that’s when he’s at his best. But maybe that’s only because he doesn’t have Schottenheimer making the play calls anymore……

by jackf on Jan 2, 2012 8:34 AM EST up reply actions  

great take
has anyone told shott the opposition watches tapes ?

This may say it all.

There was a crazy snowball effect, I think. The Jets tried to create a short passing complex attack in order to be a don’t-turn-it-over offense and defenses just realized they don’t have to defend the whole field (Belichick was one of the first to figure this it seems). This trend started in the first two years but this year it really took off. Sanchez began facing teams that would only defend the first 15 yards more or less, and his passing window became smaller and smaller. He was somehow drilled into a check-down fast first QB, and as his windows shrank, so did his confidence. Already not a very accurate short pass QB, he became more inaccurate, and defenses closed in more. That he was throwing INTs on 5 yard and 10 yard passes was more than symptomatic. That he was throwing them to linemen in the last game on tiny dump offs really captures the picture. Sanchez was put into box that kept shrinking, and it eroded his mental ability to handle pressure. Throw in the protection issues and the lack of creativity to solve them like you suggest, and the Jet offense became a nightmare. This “nightmare” was orchestrated by only one man as far as we know, the OC.

by ________key on Jan 2, 2012 9:33 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

How does that Clash song go? “Darling you got to let me know. Should he go or should he go?” I’m missing something there, but that’s more or less it.
However I disagree that it will happen quickly. They’re going to push him for head coach jobs elsewhere, and firing him immediately will ruin his chances.

Proud owner of over 20,000 comments. (most of them in the wrong place) Oh yeah, and Buster Posey

by rxmeister on Jan 2, 2012 8:21 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

does anyone really think shott can control an entire nfl football team ,..lmfaooo,….he can’t even get his o-line to keep from jumping offsides . i’d love to know the stats . he creates confusion .

by g86jn on Jan 2, 2012 8:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Dolphin fans visiting GGN no doubt.

Eternal optimist
New York Jets
Gang Green Nation
www.ganggreennation.com
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by David_Wyatt on Jan 2, 2012 8:35 AM EST up reply actions  

ok let LOOK at whole picture here shall we

the jets like the other 31 teams have a HEAD COACH who Has the Job Of managing His Cordinators..Each week GamePlans Come from the Head Coach,and together with the players they Practise these plays..somewhere along the lines these gameplans arnt being played on the field, or as LT said and admitted to that there are TIMES he does miss a Block and puts pressure on the QB!! He also said that alot of the Rec;s arnt running there “routes” correctly..ALl these errors dont fall upon a OC, But the player;s themselves!!!

Rex states after the Giants game "they’ll never throw that many pass attempts again!!!! well they HAD to be in there Game-Plan to begin with in order too be called!!!! So REX knew they were In there BUT why didnt HE make the changes during the Game?.I mean HE Is the BOSS…His Cord. follow His decision,s!!!!

the main cause for all off-sides @ line is Ones snap-count and How they call them out, it is the QB that holds all blames for a count and the speed it is called out, and IF QB’s make those play changes @ line then that can and does cause off-sides because NOW snap-counts are changing!!!.Now a OC can not control how a player reacts to a snap-count..

Now while throwing a Int in a game is bad enough, throwing 2 to the same DL thats BAD!!!! as Sanchez stated he was just trying to throw it away while in Grasp of J.Taylor, But His ways of throwing it away NEEDS work big time!!!!…the Pick by the linebacker He failed to throw it towards sidelines and away from the defender, that is QB fault not the OC!!!!

Many former QB,s have been saying on alot of shows that Sanchez basically throws what is known as a FLAT-BALL Pass, his balls dont have a ARCH-Effect, which basically is a thrown ball that benefits HIS REC..and has a higher rate of getting a pass interference called against the other team defending…

so blaming a OL on the OC because there missing there blocking assignment is wrong!!!!

Now if ur blamming a OC then you also need to adress 3 other people..#1 the QB Coach..#2 Brunell who is Suppose to be working with the QB..#3 the Def Cord..all 3 of these people play a important aspect and game against “fins” they allowed a team to have 12 mins of Ball control..thats Bad if Not POOR DEF play calling.no other words for it..

But too me the Biggest BLUNDER came after the game in post game reports BY REX, saying He didnt know why Holmes was sitting on the Bench!!!! Holmes saying the COACH said he was being sent to side-lines..Only Coach who has that POWER is the Head-Coach!!!!…so I have questions about this matter!!! BIG Questions!!!!!

But when ur paying a REC that amount of $$$ and throw his way 1 time thats says something right there!!!!!

alot of games Mark locks into 1 rec and fails to see his “out-man”..All of HIS Pick-6;s are results of His own decision;s NOT a OC!!!!!

the players on the field are there to play the plays being called..there Coach;s arnt too be held accountable for there failed blocks!! drop balls..running wrong routes…BUT when a QB makes those Kill-Kill calls at the Line then that Play is all on His shoulders and HOW he is reading a Def Covergae, and alot of HIS mis-cues this yr have been direct results of the PLAYS he is changing @ the line!!!..and all falls on His NOT being able to READ into a Def-Coverage!!!!!

Now our #1 rival OC is also leaving that team Because He didnt like being Called-out On Nat’l TV!!!!.there saying that there former OC “Mcdaniels” is returning!!!!!!

area;s I see where jets have failed is in NOT having another QB to PUSH the Starting QB!!!!.Mark knows even if he makes errors in a game He wont be pulled!!!..He needs another QB pushing Him!!!!

I have said irt b/4 nd will say it again Jets have too many “ME-ME” players on that team!!!! and those players for whatever the reason(s) failed to accept that this is a TEAM EFFORT!!!!..another area is that JETS dont seem to do things like alot of other teams and Have player;s that can actually play more than 1 position.and that hurts when Our #1 player at said position is out!!!!

look at GB..ravens..Steelers..NE for example they have players that if a guard is out another on the line can step into that position, or even have a player that can play all line positions(except center) and 1 team has that in a player Plus can also play TE!!!!.these type players jets need to have or get!!!!

getting a New OC isnt the answer..because with a NEW OC thats is another learning cycle!!!! Moore was brought Him to go over game Films from His home and report back with HIS Finding.s He is and has always been a QB Coach..now past 3 games Has been on the Field working with Sanchez and in those 3 games I did not see vast improvements..ever think Maybe it was MOORE who suggested those pass plays?….BUT REX has major dissentations with-in that Team from Coachs to player;s..

I’ll say this when..“J-cro” asked to be either let go or traded that was a telling sign of such Locker room problems!! when a player is asking for a OUT!!! that is signs that something is badly a-miss within that TEAMS structure!!!!

Jets DEF allowed Miami back into the game during those 12 mins thay couldnt stop them gaining that leading TD!!!!!.then that put added pressures on the OFF….I think what Crommatie was "saying-not saying in His post game said it all!!!!

Jets need to clean house.but can they afford to be rid of HOLMES, I mean what team wants or is willing to assume that Contract!!? Plaxico has been in some games and in others going thru the motions!!!!.But trading lowery that was a major blunder on Coaching staff!!!!

we all know the Jets will fire Shotty..then what?..if there is indeed locker room issues then that BLAME falls directly UPON the HEAD COACH and His failures to correct it during this past season!!!!!..But to come out in a post Game show and say He didnt know why HOLMES was on the bench, I dont buy into His "excuse’ 1 bit!!!!! nor IS His right to TAKE the Blame for poor play..He needs to call out the players NOIT Baby them!!!! as he has a bad habit of doing!!!!!

by Jack2466 on Jan 2, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

don't encourage it.

This is the week that fanposts will be blasted up by anyone who thinks they have “the solution” to the Jets woes.

And the home of the .... JETS!!!
Now lets get a G-D snack!!!
"You might not like that. You might be very cynical about that. Well, f**k it, I don't care what you think."-Roy McDonald

by Noble_Lance on Jan 2, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

its actually really annoying

b/c i have some ideas for interesting fanposts and i’m not gonna even bother w/ them for at least a few wks cuz theres no point of even trying to put one up this wk

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Jan 2, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I just think anybody associated with this offense should be fired

Every coach associated with the offensive side of the ball, should be fired and the players put on notice. Since IT IS, Shotts offense…

by Clarke W. Griswald on Jan 2, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

#FireSchotty

The star-ledger is reporting that schotty may be demoted instead of fired. if true, it shows rex wasn’t able to banish the ‘same old jets’ curse.

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2012/01/jets_rex_ryan_says_reports_are.html

by Jets Phan on Jan 2, 2012 9:08 AM EST reply actions  

Brilliant

make him the QB coach. That’ll fix everything.

by Black Dog Jet on Jan 2, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Apparently, 19 Pats fans have voted in this poll.

Let's go have a beer, Doc.

Proud inventor of the "Oh Brett" meme.

by Crazy Nyce Dave on Jan 2, 2012 9:14 AM EST reply actions  

He must go

and he has to be replaced by a coach from outside the organization, one with a legit track record of success. My list goes like this:

1 Tom Clements: he is the Green Bay QB coach who Aaron Rodgers absolutely loves. Going from a QB coach to a coordinator is a promotion so I dont see why we cant get him.
2 Norv Turner: assuming he is fired by San Diego we all know Turner has a long and distinguished track record. This would be another good choice.
3 Josh McDaniels: I am not in love with this choice at all but he did have a nice offense last eason with Denver. Negatives include Bradford not showing much before getting injured last season and this is also the dope that thought Tebow was a legit QB.

I think if not one of these guys we need to look at coaches on staffs like Green Bay and New Orleans for our new coordinator. I absolutely want no part of Callahan or any other coach off of a staff with a bad offense. We also must hire a good QB coach because cavanagh is a complete hack.

Why exactly did this organization give Schottenheimer a two year extension at big money when this offense has never been good? I wonder if Woody is too cheap to eat the money that Schottenheimer has coming. Lets remember this team has a payroll several million below the cap and that is due to our owner being cheap.

by bklynbrewcrew on Jan 2, 2012 9:45 AM EST reply actions  

Going from a QB coach to a coordinator is a promotion so I dont see why we cant get him.

No, it isn’t. It’s considered a lateral move. If he is under contract, the Jets would need permission to speak with him.

Editor-In-Chief
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http://www.ganggreennation.com

by John B on Jan 2, 2012 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

How is that

possible that a position coach moving on to become a coordinator is considered a lateral move?

by bklynbrewcrew on Jan 2, 2012 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s the rule. The league views assistants equally no matter what assistant position it is. Green Bay has denied other teams the right to interview Clements in the past.

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by John B on Jan 2, 2012 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

No, Clements I think is still under contract.

Callahan is a coaching Free Agent this season.

And the home of the .... JETS!!!
Now lets get a G-D snack!!!
"You might not like that. You might be very cynical about that. Well, f**k it, I don't care what you think."-Roy McDonald

by Noble_Lance on Jan 2, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

if I understood that correctly.

And the home of the .... JETS!!!
Now lets get a G-D snack!!!
"You might not like that. You might be very cynical about that. Well, f**k it, I don't care what you think."-Roy McDonald

by Noble_Lance on Jan 2, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Right, remember how last year the Jets denied the Titans’ request to interview him for OC?

That’s probably the reason Callahan declined a contract extension. Now his contract has expired so he can interview with whomever he wants.

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by John B on Jan 2, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

From what I understand

A lot of coaches call plays, so they are often the de facto coordinator, so making it a lateral move would prevent teams from, for example, interviewing a QB coach for the OC job with no intention of letting him call any plays. That would basically be stealing a position coach by calling him a coordinator.

by SoReal on Jan 2, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes

This is essentially it. IIRC another issue at one point was hiring a guy for the same job but tacking on the meaningless Assistant Head Coach title.

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by John B on Jan 2, 2012 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

clements will take a head coaching job b/4 another cord job

Mcdaniels maybe headed back to NE because there OC is also leaving.sure woody will eat shotty contract BUt I also see him eating Holme;s contract as well along with many others..Jets have major locker-room dissentaions..MAJOR Issues!!!!! and even a Non-Jets fan can see that in the Players actions on the field!!!!

Alot of those “sacks” remind me of yrs past with another team when the OL —had lost all faith in there QB!!!!.(see J.Plunkett with NE)

.and I also sense at times even OUR Def plays like that as well…they stop a team 3 and out in comes OF and there seeing another sack..a fumble a thrown INT or a pick-6, sorry but that does do harm to these DEF players as well and there actions on the field..like why protect only to see it being “thrown-away”…I also have this feeling that TEAM play isnt as strong as head Coach is saying..Team players win and lose games.and a COACH is wrong for Saying HE is to BLAME for these BAD games!!! REX needs to stop treating them like Kids and CALL THEM OUT!!!!! but he doesnt why?….

by Jack2466 on Jan 2, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Todd Haley

I think I would prefer Haley over McDaniels.

by bklynbrewcrew on Jan 2, 2012 10:02 AM EST reply actions  

How many times do we have to go:

A) Shotgun on first down.
B) Empty backfield on 2nd or 3rd or 4th and short.
C) Not throw a long ball all game
D) Have an anemic offense for quarters, then halves, then whole games at a time.

Blame Sanchez if you will, but Sanchez isn’t creating game plans for himself, he’s actually blaming himself after every game.
Blame the offensive line if you will, but the offensive line is calling plays that that limit all protection in the backfield and limit line matchups to 1 on 1 (Empty backfield)
Blame the WRs if you will, but again, they are what they are, our OC is obviously not game planning with their inabilities in mind.
Blame our RBS if you will, but when they are rolling, they aren’t getting the ball consistently enough, when they aren’t rolling our plans go away from them entirely so they will never get back on track.
Blame the defense…actually don’t blame the defense, they are better then mediocre, and other then some spots don’t need a complete overhaul.

by Timmaht on Jan 2, 2012 10:25 AM EST reply actions  

If he's not being allowed to make the plays on the field what else can he do but follow the puppeteer?

And the home of the .... JETS!!!
Now lets get a G-D snack!!!
"You might not like that. You might be very cynical about that. Well, f**k it, I don't care what you think."-Roy McDonald

by Noble_Lance on Jan 2, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions  

in partial defense of Schotty...

Let me begin by saying that I want Schotty gone. Icompletely agree with John B’s analysis.

But to make this thread interesting, let me play devils advocate and offer a partial defense of Schotty.

I’ve read reports of Schotty’s methodical preparation and how he begins the week going over general principles with the players and progressing through the week to more specific situations.

To be honest, it sounds good. Ive just never been able to reconcile it with what I have seen on the field. What is on the field is NOT a team that systematically picks apart defenses. I will defend Schotty to the extent that I am willing to keep my mind open to the possibility that Rex or Schotty are radically altering what Schotty wants to.do, as unlikely as that seems.

My sense is that Schotty is strategically reactive but tactically unreactive: he reactively gameplans based on opposing defenses instead of his own team’s strengths. Then he fails to adjust during the game to what is actually working or not working.

by square1 on Jan 2, 2012 10:46 AM EST reply actions  

It’s one thing to intellectually understand concepts. It’s another to be able to effectively meld those concepts with the talent you have into something that works on the field.

Editor-In-Chief
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http://www.ganggreennation.com

by John B on Jan 2, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

I think this is why across many sports you will see a lot of coaches who are very unsuccessful as coaches but very good as television analysts.

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by John B on Jan 2, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

What I find troubiling

is that Holmes was benched and Schotty didn’t inform Rex about it. The fact that our HC is 100% out of anything relating to the offense, AND that our Coordinator didn’t feel the to inform the HC that he was sitting the teams #1 WR for a game deciding drive

by ncquake24 on Jan 2, 2012 11:02 AM EST reply actions  

I thought that was odd also

That was probably Schotty’s last act of defiance against Rex. I don’t think Santonio and Schotty ever had a good relationship. Remember when Schotty inexplicably pulled Tone in the 4th qtr of the AFC Championship? Tone was not happy with Schotty last year and those feelings carried over to this year.
Still no excuse to Tone’s behavior.

Love with a LEO is like a drug.. One taste and your addicted!

by MDGeekyGrl on Jan 2, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

It's really a microcosm of his whole coaching style

Don’t fix something till it comes to a head. Instead of nipping the Tone-tude problem in the bud weeks ago, he waits to bench him in the most important drive of the season? Doesn’t focus on the run game till the head coach basically calls him out in public about it pretty much every year since Rex arrived (and even then not really do that anyway)? He STILL hasn’t adjusted to Hunter sucking so bad properly, nor has he properly focused on Keller consistently, never involved McKnight in the offense, etc.

by Exystence on Jan 2, 2012 11:42 AM EST via Android app up reply actions  

GO.

I thought this was obvious. I’m convinced that no offense can function under him. Who the hellsaid stay?

by JetKing55 on Jan 2, 2012 12:47 PM EST reply actions  

And John B:

Is there any way we could only have polls available to members and/or frequent commenters because Pats fans are consistently swaying the vote.

by JetKing55 on Jan 2, 2012 12:49 PM EST reply actions  

yea.....

that 93% "go" vote is really close

The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com

by Cory Braiterman on Jan 2, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

It shouldn’t be an issue going forward.

Editor-In-Chief
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by John B on Jan 2, 2012 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

He's interviewing for the HC job in Jacksonville

i’d expect him to do so elsewhere too. In more unfortunate news, Norv Turner may not be leaving San Diego.

by darshv3 on Jan 2, 2012 2:21 PM EST reply actions  

What could they be thinking?

They watch game film from that abortion yesterday and say “We have to get ourselves some of that!”

by Black Dog Jet on Jan 2, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Logical Inconsistancy

The CBSSports.com article reads thusly:

“Schottenheimer joins the mix along with Panthers offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski and Falcons offensive coordinator Mike Mularkey for a Jaguars team that finished last in the league in offense and that features a rookie quarterback who had a disturbingly-bad season with one of the worst receiving corps in the league.”

Excepting the worst reciving corps part, what changes would the Jags expect by hiring Schotty. Looks like they’ve already achieved all the goals they set for themselves.

by Black Dog Jet on Jan 2, 2012 2:39 PM EST reply actions  

I Can't Believe

that there are 54 knuckleheads who still would keep BS as the OC. It’s simply amazing that people can watch game after game and have no clue what their seeing.

"Reality is purely the perception of the individual mind. It follows, that since no two minds are alike, no two perceptions of reality are alike. It further follows, that what reality is to one, may seem complete madness to someone else."

– Yefim Novikov

by joeklecko on Jan 2, 2012 5:33 PM EST reply actions  

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