Issues Mark Sanchez Article Presented Deserve Serious Consideration
by John B on Jan 12, 2012 12:21 PM EST
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PrintBack in the spring of 2005, former Major League Baseball outfielder Jose Canseco generated a lot of headlines by writing a book and later testifying in front of Congress about a rampant culture of steriods in baseball and accusing former friends and teammates of steriod use. Canseco was roundly criticized for his actions. They came off as self-serving. He was out to make a quick buck and get publicity for himself at the expense of others. This was all true. Canseco's behavior was extremely self-serving. That did not discredit the substance of what he was saying, however. In the years since, the substance of Canseco's comments has been vindicated. Most of what he said proved to be deadly accurate.
When we talk about Manish Mehta's controversial article in yesterday's Daily News, there are a couple of issues at hand. One is whether teammates should express a lack of confidence in their quarterback to the press. It is pretty obvious this is the wrong way to conduct business. There is a difference, however, between being critical of the way somebody expresses a viewpoint and saying that viewpoint is invalid.
It is true that the feelings expressed by the anonymous sources never should have made it to the newspaper. The fact the feelings exist, though, is noteworthy. Respect is something earned by a quarterback, not demanded. This story is big news. It is a big deal when the entire locker room does not support its quarterback. We can talk about all kinds of internal division. Few things are as divisive in the locker room as people lacking respect for the most important player on the field. The best reporter covering the Jets said a "consensus" wanting a different man at the position do not think Sanchez is good enough to simply be handed the starting job.
Manish Mehta is an extremely credible journalist. He has been during his entire time covering the Jets with two different publications. His Saturday features on certain people within the organization are proof of how thorough he is and the deep connections he has made within the organization. We found out last week the Jets were promoting an intern named Mike Smith to outside linebackers coach. Mehta had done a profile on the anonymous intern weeks before going into detail the work he put in with Aaron Maybin. Manish is not somebody who prints things for shock value. He is not Florio. He is not even Cimini. His track record does not suggest he is just talking to one malcontent and then framing it as gospel to manufacture a crisis and get himself publicity.
It is great to see Nick Mangold and others rush to the defense of a teammate facing public scrutiny, but he nor any of the others is in any position to comment on the validity of the article. He might feel a certain way, but he has no idea what others said to the reporter.
This might be nonsense, but it also might not be. True, you only heard positives about Sanchez's work ethic over the past three years, but nobody really knows. The team had plenty of incentive to pump up the reputation of the guy it risked and invested so much in. People change over time. Some guys might stop working or develop attitude problems suddenly. Many have remarked about Sanchez's bad body language on the field and his defeated demeanor going back to Week 4 against Baltimore. Sanchez might have taken a lot of hits because of bad offensive line play, but that comes with the territory. That doesn't make him a hero. His job when dropping back requires the knowledge he might get hit. Late in the year, there were plenty of times he shied away from a big hit and missed throws by not stepping all the way into throws when putting enough on the pass to complete it required taking a shot from an oncoming rusher. At some point, when you combine stuff like this with the comments of former teammates like Kris Jenkins and the Christmas report of the Jets considering other options, it is really starting to feel like there is an awful lot of smoke if there is no fire regarding real questions about his makeup.
Very few had a problem when even more vocal anonymous criticisms of Santonio Holmes got leaked to the media last week. Those were just as disconcerting. Given Holmes' public behavior all year, I think the reason nobody got upset is obvious. The accusations of selfishness match our perceptions of a guy who ripped his teammates in public, took a stupid and selfish penalty against the Eagles, and got himself benched on the last drive of the season. What we see in public is not the entire story, though. We do not know what happens behind the scenes. Neither does the press. The only ones who do are members of the team and its staff. Some seem to think Sanchez is not showing the stuff he needs to show. That might be true, but the troubling thing is that it shows not everybody is 100% behind the quarterback. Don't expect a cohesive unit until that happens. We all want to believe Sanchez is the answer and has the right makeup, but people in the fold who do not see this are not necessarily wrong.
I think this might end up being a good thing. This next year is going to show what Sanchez is made of. He is facing adversity. He needs to win over his locker room. Every excuse is now off the table. He has over 50 games of starting experience. The raw, young quarterback excuse is played out. So is the Schottenheimer excuse. We are about to find out whether or not Sanchez has the work ethic, the talent, and the attitude it will take to become this team's franchise quarterback. Guys who are really good tend to rise in times of adversity when they need to step up. Guys who are not tend to fade.
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Manish is somebody who prints things for shock value.
I’m sure you meant “does not print things for shock value”.
and the HOLMES of the... JETS!!!
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yea I was about to say that
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by Cory Braiterman on Jan 12, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
I did. Thanks for the catch.
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Manish may not be one to print for shock value...
But I’m sure the editors at the Daily News timed the release of this article to spoil any good feeling from the new hire of Sporano
by CervezaVerde on Jan 12, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Just think about it
Its not much of a conspiracy. Its the Daily News. Its Francessa taunting Revis. Its New York media coverage of the NYJ.
by CervezaVerde on Jan 13, 2012 4:37 AM EST up reply actions
Just to further a point...
The article was not written overnight; though most sports articles are. It apparently had multiple sources which should take time to gather. It was understood it would be a bit of a shocker. So either it just happened to be completed as the Jets coincidently agreed to Schotty’s departure and hired a new OC and announced a few coaching moves… or they timed the release to gain national attention to coincide with the story of the Jets coaching shake up. Not much of a conspiracy. If I worked in the papers, I could figure this out as an easy way to get more attention for my company. Geez, its pretty simple actually. Its not faking a moon landing. Its not spreading crack in poor neighborhoods. Its not planning atrocities to start a war over oil.
Its just making news when the news is a little slow (on a topic that is not really irresponsible to toy with).
by CervezaVerde on Jan 13, 2012 5:12 AM EST up reply actions
I think this will be Sanchez’s defining moment. Getting Sparano and Haley give Sanchez less friends more bosses. These two are passionate but serious, Haley gets in the face of people, and Sparano demands hard work. I think new coaches and the new internal pressure are either going to kick his ass in the right direction or kick him to the curb.
And the home of the .... JETS!!!
Now lets get a G-D snack!!!
"You might not like that. You might be very cynical about that. Well, f**k it, I don't care what you think."-Roy McDonald
Good read
The last paragraph is so true, next season, the spotlight is going to be directly pointed at Sanchez and he’s going to have to show, not even that he was worth moving up for, that he can be a starter in the N.F.L.
by Clarke W. Griswald on Jan 12, 2012 12:38 PM EST reply actions
What's funny to me is people who think Mcelroy looked good in the preseason.
I’m not saying he was necessarily bad, but all I saw was a dude running for his life. Sanchez got bad protection this year, behind the starters. Mcelroy was behind Matt Kroul and Ducasse, well he proved he’s tough, cause he lived to talk ish about it.
by Clarke W. Griswald on Jan 12, 2012 12:51 PM EST reply actions
McElroy
I do think he looked good by the last game he was hitting some passes in traffic and getting his timing down. Do I think he is ready to take over as starter the answer is no. It was unfortunate that he was out for the year it would have been good to see what he could do with a year of time under his belt. He is coming in with a slight advantage over a rookie.
On a side note I believe he is a very smart QB he has the potential to be a really good QB. Will he be Elite doubtfull. You never know Brady was a sixth round pick and look what happened there. Please do not say I am comparing him to Brady I’m not. I’m just saying just because he was a later rounder he can’t be written off.
I think this year will be a huge test for Sanchez. What happens in FA and the draft will determine where this team goes as well as the coaching changes. One thing I do know is this will be a different team from the one its been the last few years. I can’t wait to see how it pans out
McElroy is lucky if the Jets don't kick him to the curb.Imagine the balls to shoot his mouth off
in public about internal problems.Seventh round pick and wasn’t even on the 53 man roster.Shut up Rookie!
by Putnan Prince on Jan 12, 2012 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
Preseason doesnt mean all that much to me...
Remember David Clowney?
by RhodesRocks on Jan 13, 2012 8:02 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
"This story is big news. It is a big deal when the entire locker room does not support its quarterback."
Manish wouldn’t even tell ESPN how many “sources” he even talked to let alone names. It’s become pretty evident that it’s not the entire locker room.
The media is giving this garbage more life than it deserves. Is Mark Sanchez a great QB? No. Does he have potential? Yes. Does he work his ass off? Yes, according to everyone except “anonymous sources” he does.
The whole situation is eerily similar to Eli’s 3rd year in the league when it was a defense vs. offense thing going on. Strahan even said later on he would wince every time Eli dropped back to pass.
Poor body language comes from not playing well and being very young and still learning. It can also come from being in a system where he knows he’s more likely to fail than prosper.
IMHO it’s all speculation and not worth all the attention it’s already received let alone deserving of serious attention.
by GangGreen73 on Jan 12, 2012 12:52 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think it's a good thing they're doing some house cleaning with the offensive staff
Because their clearly were locker room issues and not only the Santonio thing. When Sanchez put a ball a little behind Greene he threw his arms up and looked really annoyed. I think like Nick Mangold said, the offense needed a breath of fresh air.
by Clarke W. Griswald on Jan 12, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Oh yeah the offensive coaching staff needed to be gutted
I’m all for the changes in the staff that are going on and I really believe next year we will see a better Mark Sanchez for it.
It’s been said time and time again here and other places that Schottenheimer’s offense was overly complicated just for the sake of being complicated, but somehow predictable at the same time.
Sanchez needs less BS motioning and more decisiveness in the play calling so he has time to look over the defense in front of him as well as the freedom to audible into what ever play he wants instead of the cookie cutter kill kill kill crap.
I agree - I know people lambast Sanchez for having trouble reading defenses.
And that might very well be the case. But I’ve also noticed in watching games that Sanchez is still motioning for the play-call and yelling at the sidelines up until about 5 seconds before the snap. It might be that getting rid of that problem, while not a cure-all, will result in some improvement in recognition.
but if u listened to reporters Interview he did state that wasnt Just players He chatted with
for all we know could have been the “Coach’s” that have left the Team…seems very strange How they(FO) dragged out the Schotty thing, then schotty says not coming back and Sprano is in?..was ths the plan all along? seems too be in My opinion….the other one that I am concerned with is Brother ROB,promoting the New WR Coach….whats the latest on the Def-Cord? is he staying or leaving?..re-vamping the whole Coaching staff has in ways of going down another road so to speak….and that can lead to many problems!!!!..but u have too agree jets need a decent backup QB on sidelines..as it now stands if Mark has a bad game nobody is coming in,and HE KNOWS THAT.in ways that is not helping Him at all if anything it keeps him making same mental errors over and over!!
Let the chips fall where they may !
I have been a Sanchez supporter since he got here . His first 2 years in the league , yuou couldn’t ask for more . Yes , we had a better defense than this year, and yes we had a better O-line in that time. I think what happened this year was primarily Shitty’s fault ! The kid did not know which way to turn from game to game . That said, let’s see where a different coaching approach leaves him, and go from there !
by bleedinggreen41 on Jan 12, 2012 1:03 PM EST reply actions
Its really up to sanchez.
Exactly my opinion. This hit snachez is taking is a good thing for him. I am tired of hearing he is the first one in and last one to leave the room. While that is good, it is not enough. Show us what you are made of now Sanchez. I am not expecting you to carry the team on your shoulder or become elite suddenly but you have to show progress each week, you have to cut down on mental errors, you have to psych yourself up in your mind to accept certain hit or pressure, I want to see you start spiking the ball in the endzone when you score a TD. and not the cheezy airplane dance, I want you to have that dangerous imma get em look when you throw an interception(Learn from Brady) And show your team mates that I sanchez is the leader of this team. I still believe in you and imma stop calling you cantchez and promise to stop changing the channel when you are talking. Lol…
by overloadblitz on Jan 12, 2012 1:05 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Sorry, I don't buy it
This was quoted in the NFL story: "I think the point of the story was to find out how the people in the building truly feel about their quarterback," Mehta said. "Let’s be honest, this was not all Mark Sanchez’s fault. The Jets did not miss the playoffs just because of their quarterback. … I don’t think it’s fair to lay it all on Mark Sanchez. But I also think that it’s not realistic to say everything is rosy regarding this quarterback."
This article was smoke and mirrors for trying to get a reaction so this guy can get on TV and Radio and have something to talk about. It was purely sensational journalism which is the worst kind. I think one one or two players in a 53 man roster is not a big deal. Those two guys might even be gone next season. There’s no real weight to this story. Period. It’s just a reporter trying to make himself seem spectacular when he’s just an idiot.
I agree with this
The coward wouldn’t even tell ESPN how many “sources” he supposedly got the information from. He accomplished what he wanted; Manish got some national attention. If I was a Jet I wouldn’t even look at this asshat let alone give him an interview.
The article Manish wrote seemed really out of character for him
I wonder if maybe his editor was after him to write something to catch everyone’s attention. So Manish pulled a Cimini and he went out to find a story.
When there are 53 guys in the locker room, you can always find someone to give you a couple of good quotes. Also, I hate to pull the race card but I have to say the lazy comment annoys me more than anything because it feeds into the stereotype that always seems to get placed on people of color. I’m surprised no one else in the media has picked up on that.
Love with a LEO is like a drug.. One taste and your addicted!
thank you!
I was even especially annoyed by Boomer who said Mark Sanchez looked like a Chiuaua.. There’s so much racist shit going it’s pretty disgusting.
Same here
I don’t like to go there most of the time…but sometimes you just can’ ignore it.
Love with a LEO is like a drug.. One taste and your addicted!
Screw Boomer
He sucked when he was here. He cried that he couldn’t bring his kids to the game because of the fans. He couldn’t handle the fans booing him when he SUCKED. And i wouldn’t throw out the racist card on boomer for saying Mark looked like a scared chiuaua.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
At this point, whether or not the article is true isn't that important
There are still going to be consequences to it. First off, it paints the Jets, or should I say it continues to paint the Jets in a bad light. The Jets have lost a lot of respect and this will only make it worse. Perhaps the biggest negative impact is that the lack of cohesion and perception of blame and back biting will minimize the attractiveness of the Jets to potential free agents. And we need to be able to land some good free agents this off season as the draft alone will not cure our woes. The second thing is that it will make Sanchez wary of who might have said it and will impact the way he interacts with the offense in the locker room. Again, not a good thing. As this is the first time I’ve heard that he was lazy and it was from unnamed sources I don’t give it a lot of weight. But my opinion doesn’t matter. The damage is done. The real question is will Rex show some leadership and do something about it?
"I just build our guys up. If it's trash talking that I believe in our football team, then, yes, I agree with that statement. I'm the biggest trash talker there is." Rex Ryan
Or, it might be washed out by the bringing in of new blood.
They can say, “we all knew the offense was in a disarray. We’re starting over now.”
That, by itself, is a more than viable retort. Just be glad that this story is so close after the end of the season, and not running into the next. People might dig the story back out, but generally the media’s attention is relatively short. This will be soundbited to “last year, there were some doubts about Sanchez.”
But if we start seeing stories like this going into OTAs, then we’re really in trouble.
I agree.
I bet there is at least something to the article. Also-did Sanchez ever really seem like a hard worker to you? I don’t mean “hard worker” in the sense of showing up on time, staying late, extra meetings. i mean the “hard work” that comes with the burning desire to really improve on your weaknesses. It is just a superficial thing, and maybe means nothing, but I see him more on the exercise bike than going over photos on the sideline. The hard work needed here is the kind that forces him to confront the hard things-reading defenses, progressing quickly, learning to throw the ball away properly, trying to be more accurate…specific things not just putting in extra time.
I think the problems stem from Sanchez doing GQ covers, etc. Once a guy starts thinking he is a model that soon in his career (I only put the “that soon in his career” tidbit in because clearly it has not affected Brady) and worrying about “outside” interests – be it acting, modeling, rapping, producing, etc – I think their production, preparation and work ethic start to decline. For this to have taken place after Sanchez’s first year – should have been a huge warning sign…
And to be honest, I have never listened or watched Sanchez and come across with the view that he is the sharpest pencil in the box. I worked with a guy who went thru the motions of really trying (coming in on time, staying late, appearing to read about markets, asking questions, etc) but he was really just going thru the motions and regurgitating what he heard/read without ever understanding or having the ability to comprehend what he was hearing/reading/repeating. So even if he were to work 25 hours a day 8 days a week (obviously I realize there are 24 hours, 7 days a week – its to make a point) he would have NEVER gotten it, understood it, or succeeded. It just was beyond his mental capacity.
Does anyone else get the feeling that maybe Sanchez is the first one in the building and the last one to leave at night, and goes thru the motions of studying tape, studying offenses/defenses, working on his technique, working on his body, etc but the mental aspect of the position are just too taxing for him and unfortunately, it is what it is?
I believe that he is distracted by the “Hollywood” type stuff (and let’s be fair – he is a 20 something QB in NYC with plenty of outside opportunities) and just not mentally competent enough to succeed at the position….combined that with the publicity and money that he gets – and guys in the locker room realize that and the Jets losing impacts their ability to get paid so they air their greivances out of frustration. The NFL is a very short career – you only have x number of games to leave your mark and make your money…..
Did you just call that man stupid?
Are you trying to say he is not mentally competent enough to be a NFL QB?
Love with a LEO is like a drug.. One taste and your addicted!
I agree wholeheartedly
He’s never appeared to have the know-how to read a defense, and has the confidence that’s as tough as a thin sheet of ice. He’s always looked like that to me, even when he was at USC.
IT WAS FOR CHARITY
he’s not doing it for his own image. He’s doing it for charity…
Also it was done during the off season
I will never understand why people expect athletes to do nothing but train and study during their downtime. Those guys are entitled to have a life.
Love with a LEO is like a drug.. One taste and your addicted!
To be a great QB in the NFL these days, it is just as much mental (football iq) as it is physical. The great ones have an incredible feel for the game that the average person will never have. Watch the way a Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Manning manages a game – they see things that the average guy will not see (or a split second later).
I am not convinced that Sanchez has that ability. And the way he struggles to read defenses and looks constantly confused out there – I think that is the perfect example of a man who may spend hours studying, etc but never really understands what he is studying. So the time spent is irrelevant if he can’t process the information.
And as for the GQ covers and endorsements, etc – it creates jealousy with other players. They see him as this Hollywood type guy who struggles to pick up concepts on offense – negatively affecting their careers/paydays.
I could care less what athletes do in their down time, but in instances where your production declines and players are relying on that playoff money (I wouldn’t be shocked if Bart Scott’s comments were not a joke – that he needed that money to meet his debts this offseason) it’s not surprising that they start to let out their greivances when they think a guy held them back from getting paid because he is not good at his job. You think the guys making $400k a year don’t feel jealous of a franchise player making $20m? That is a big reason why they changed the rookie salary structure in the new CBA.
Jealousy
Was not the reasoning behind the change of the rookie pay scale. I can understand teammates being upset with some of the things Sanchez does on the field but being jealous of a guy posing in a magazine sounds pretty petty to me.
I don’t know where you are getting the “Hollywood” label from. I don’t live in the NY/NJ area but I can tell you I have only thing I’ve seen Mark endorse is Pepsi. Jay Cutler is dating a reality star who posts just about everything that’s going on in their relationship online and no one calls him “Hollywood”. Oh and let’s not forget Mr. Jockey Shorts himself Tim Tebow, where is the “Hollywood” label there?
Oh and those GREAT ONE’s you wrote about are all QB’s who have been Pro QB’s for at least 4 years and with the exception of Bree’s, they all benefited from great coaching very early in their careers.
If the guy doesn’t know how to read defenses that is not a reflection of his inability to learn, it’s a reflection of how he’s being coached. From what we’ve seen, coaches are focusing more on hitting him with pads and giving him red light and green light signals than they are on giving him the tools he needs to learn how to read defenses.
Love with a LEO is like a drug.. One taste and your addicted!
Ok fair enough.
You’re entitled to your own opinion, which is defending this dude. But we’re also entitled to our own. Now, in all of your posts defending Sanchez and your position on him, can you say his play has been worth what our team is paying him? Or could we, and should we use that money that, quite honestly, I don’t think he deserves to address other needs on this team?
No way...Sanchez isn't close to being worth the money he's being paid
I also don’t think Stafford, Bradford or Freeman are worth the money they are being paid either. But the rookie pay scale wasn’t in place at that time so it is what it is.
I may be a Sanchez defender but I can look at things objectively enough to say if he doesn’t improve next year, he needs to move on. I also firmly believe Sanchez should not have been a starter until this season. He was too green when he came out of college. The guy needed to ride the bench while he watched a veteran QB run the show. The veteran could’ve been Favre but he decided to take his talents to Minny instead.
Love with a LEO is like a drug.. One taste and your addicted!
Stafford did throw for 5000 yards this season...
That’s worth a lot of bread to me. I mean, he IS only the 5th guy to do it. And about Favre, I think he only came here so he COULD drop his bags and run to Minnesota after the season. lol
Yeah but this is the first year he's made it through the entire season
One good hit and the guy is standing on the sidelines with his arm in a sling.
Love with a LEO is like a drug.. One taste and your addicted!
What if you switch him and Sanchez from the start of their careers?
Give Stafford the running game and O-Line Sanchez had the first two years of his career. Which QB has better stats and quite possibly a Ring? Of course, it’s all speculation.
Okay let's play the What if Game
What if Belli stayed on as the Jets HC and he drafted Tom Brady?
Would the Jets have 3 rings by now?
What if the Jets defense didn’t choke in the AFC Championship game last year?
Would they have beaten the Packers in the SuperBowl?
I can go on and on but the truth none of that happened so get over it.
Love with a LEO is like a drug.. One taste and your addicted!
You misunderstand me
All I was saying that Stafford is starting to prove that he’s worth a good portion of that deal he signed. Bradford actually played great too his rookie year, but the problem was that he had a revolving door in front of him, hence no protection. Sanchez on the other hand has only been an “OK” game manager up until this point.
I didn't misunderstand the point you were trying to make
I just wanted you to see how ridiculous it is to think that way. We will never know how successful Stafford would have been if he played for the Jets so there is no point in even asking that question.
I also find it strange how you can make excuses for Sam Bradford(another injury prone $60 million dollar QB) but you can’t give the QB of your team the benefit of the doubt.
Love with a LEO is like a drug.. One taste and your addicted!
I can't if I never liked him in the first place.
I hated the selection then, I still hate the selection now. You’ve seen my posts enough to know that
LOL...I can't remember what I wore yesterday
So you know I don’t remember most of the stuff that’s posted here.
But if you didn’t like him from the start then I understand why you don’t like him now. AND PROMISE NOT TO FORGET THIS TIME :O)
You are entitled to that opinion and I applaud you for sticking to what you believe.
Love with a LEO is like a drug.. One taste and your addicted!
Revolving door in front of him you say?
Wayne Hunter anyone?
by RhodesRocks on Jan 13, 2012 8:10 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Although I didn't think it was a problem...
I can agree that Sanchez may need to step away from the GQ covers and stuff like that. If someone really said those things about him it may stem from jealousy/envy. It might actually be a good public relations move on his part to not do those things at least until he really wins something or establishes himself as a top tier QB.
As far as Sanchez’s learning ability…there is a potential they just didn’t have the right guys teaching him. I took a psychology class and even they talked about the different ways people learn or how there isn’t only one type of intelligence (perhaps that falls into the intangibles). I personally could not take notes in school…I learned best by listening. Basically like I said…maybe they were trying to teach Sanchez in a way that does not benefit him. I forgot which QB it was but there is a left handed QB in the league that had difficulty until one of his coaches came along and was able to show him ways to do things left handed…If I recall correctly it might have been Todd Haley that did the porta-potti thing with the Receiving Corp in KC which yielded great results.
What you say is very valid but by the same token we won’t know until we are able to see how Sanchez develops with different (hopefully more competent) coaches on the offensive side of the ball.
by Mac N Cheese on Jan 12, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
I'd be curious to see if Sparano lets him get away with that.
I think the change at coordinator will either be the best thing in the world for Sanchez, or an implosion. It wouldn’t surprise me if Schotty’s hands-off, non-disciplinarian approach was to “let him cool off” and not do those things you mentioned. This is not to say that Sanchez shouldn’t be able to figure out that that’s what he needs to be doing, but maybe this change-up will reverberate
tha1ne
I think that Sanchez needs another year or two to develope. I think the best thing for them to do with him is to have him play behind and learn from an experiance veteran quaterback who knows how to win for about a year or two and then thrust him back out there as the starter. There are still some imporatant fundamentals that he may need to work on. Do I think he has the potential to eventually lead them to a superbowl? Yes I do, but not right now. Even though Mark may have seemed to regress, you just can’t place all of the blame on him. There are others that didn’t perform there job on the field to the best of there ability either. They definetly need to work on that O-line. I expect big and upcoming changes in the organization. They’ll be better next season!
Tha1ne
The difference is that Canseco put his name on it.
Whatever you want to say about Canseco, by putting his name on his claims it allowed journalists fans to judge whether the accusations had any merit. You could actually go back and look to see how much contact there was between Canseco and the other players to see whether Canseco could even be telling the truth.
Manish is not somebody who prints things for shock value.
Maybe that is true most of the time. But it isn’t true in this case. By providing the cover of anonymity, Manish guaranteed that we can’t know how much to weigh the accusations. Was the accusation by someone on offense? By someone in meetings with Sanchez? By someone who is likely to be gone next year and is chucking some bombs before he moves on?
We don’t know because Manish opened up his paper to print anonymous smears.
This is absurd. This isn’t Watergate. This Jets player isn’t a “whistleblower”. There is no good journalistic reason to be extending anonymity to athletes who want to express their personal opinions and settle grudges. Other than trying to sell papers.
Guess what? In this case, Manish was simply "somebody who prints things for shock value. "
There is no good journalistic reason to be extending anonymity
Of course there is. People are going to be much more honest in their assessments. If the idea is to get a gauge on how the team feels about Sanchez, this was the right move.
Editor-In-Chief
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http://www.ganggreennation.com
Sorry, wrong
I don’t give a damn about the “assessments” of anonymous persons, and neither should anyone else. Opinions, without context, are meaningless.
Now, to the extent that someone wants to leak actual FACTS to the media, then there can be situations where anonymity can be justified.
For example, “Mark Sanchez missed 4 meetings” is a FACT. “Mark Sanchez is lazy” is an OPINION.
The reason that FACTS can be reported anonymously is because they can be independently verified.
+1
I agree. If I hear Sanchez is hanging out late at the facility shooting the s**t with Schotty, then sure. Fine. But all you’re hearing are buzzwords like “lazy,” “complacent,” “comfortable.”
To clarify, I'm not saying Manish should reveal his source(s).
I’m just saying he shouldn’t have printed it in the first place.
You're a prominent sports writer
players are directly communicating the level of dysfunction with the team to you. Your job is to provide the biggest story. Do you write about 1.Tony Sparano’s passion for the game or 2.Gossip the players told you.
Keep in mind his job is not necessarily the appeasement of Jets fans by any stretch.
Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
GangGreenNation.com
I think you're absolutely right.
But I think that also makes it correct that this is a “gossip” story, not a legit “sports” story. If people want to attack Manish’s credibility as a go-to sports guy, and say he’s a gossip hound, I think that’s a legit gripe.
But if his purpose is to be a credible sports writer, then he shouldn’t have printed it.
The thing is, if multiple players are saying it to him at all
then it’s crossed from gossip into a credible story of dysfunction. At least that’s how I view it.
Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
GangGreenNation.com
Well, the phrasing of Mehta makes me suspect.
He uses phrases like “several players and members of the organization” – what does that mean? Two p-squad players and a towel boy?
There was one quote from a “well-respected player,” whatever that means (starter?) and there were some that were from a “Jets source” or a “teammate” (which is a term I hope Mehta was using ironically).
I guess to me this is just a “he said” article. I understand what Mehta’s point is – he’s sensing, from who knows where, a lack of support behind Sanchez.
I certainly know what good it did for Mehta and the NYDN; I just don’t think it did any justice to responsible, serious sports journalism. Though I do find the subsequent debate about anonymous locker room sources to be an interesting type of fallout. But that’s my opinion and you’re certainly entitled to yours, Bro.
I have no problem with what Manish wrote. He has to make a name for himself and get national exposure to advance his career.
I just wish he would have told the entire story like a Journalist is suppose to do. Manish made no effort to find out and report on the guys that support Mark Sanchez.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
There actually are quite a few quotes in the article of people who defend Sanchez, and he notes there are some on his side.
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If i remember, there was one guy who was quoted supporting mark, and his name wasn't used.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
There were a total of two quotes in the article and both also take a shot at him.
One was “He worked his ass off”
The other was “i don’t think he’s as bad as people are making him out to be”.
the story is completely one sided, and Manish made no effort to get quotes for guys that backed Sanchez.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
Everybody would be talking about how great of a writer Manish was if the people he asked all had glowing things to say about Sanchez.
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Not Miami, Buffalo and NE fans.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
I still think Manish is a good writer
I just think the article seems a little out of character for him.
Love with a LEO is like a drug.. One taste and your addicted!
Protecting the anonymity of sources is a cornerstone of journalism
sports or otherwise. if sources were not allowed to speak on the condition of anonymity there would be no news media period, sports or otherwise. It’s up to you, the individual, whether or not you choose to trust a writer and their sources. Every prominent writer in any industry likely uses a source speaking on the condition of anonymity at some point. If they were to break confidentiality, it would be an enormous hit to their reputation and their ability to break stories would be greatly diminished.
Disagree with it if you like, but there are several reasons for a journalist to extent the anonymity of a source.
Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
GangGreenNation.com
i agree ur right see example
back during that BS with camera placement a reporter with the Boston hearld didnt hold back named-names and where is he today? nowhere is where he is.Nobody will read HIS words.or belive a word he says..He stuck His neck out and now is paying the price..everyday in News u read a story where-by reporter cant name the names..it is the way it is in there field…
But this reporter also said He talked with ALL in building..if could have been some of the Coach;s now since departed we will never know..But a seed was planted well b/4 he even posted this report…actually the SEED was planted the day a player asked too be released…
ya ya we all know it was reported He wanted out because he wasnt seen as the #1 or #2 WR..believe that all you want..Myself I read into it as saying "He saw Internal-locker room Issues and wanted OUT!!!..ask around whenever a Player is asked too be released there is alot more reasons as too why this was asked, then what news media is printing!!!!
How many times this yr was Holmes saying things? sorry that didnt happen over-night,I say it began the 1st yr he came on Board and just progressed to point he opened up…
Mark failed during that Miami Game How? well He is also a Captain it was HIS JOB to quell Holmes not Hunter;s!!!….that right there will divide a team when there seeing a OL confront a player there CAPTAIN needed to confront!!
Couple of thing about the article
1st. Jose Canseco admitted he did roids and was more than willing to talk about what he know with his name on the book, and his face in the media. No annonymous, and no hiding.
2nd. the “Consensus” in the lockerroom was that Manning would be great on the Jets. That doesn’t mean that a “Consensus” doesn’t support Sanchez as the teams QB, just that Manning would be a great guy to have on the team. Only one guy said that with Manning the team wins a superbowl. And we have no idea who that guy is.
3rd and most important… If Manish didn’t have a story to PUSH and wasn’t trying to get his name out there, why didn’t he quote any of the guys who have come out publicly and thrown their support behind Sanchez? Why didn’t Manish present the balanced view that the lockerroom obviously has? And you can’t tell me that Mangold, Hunter, Dixon, Cole, and whoever else comes out wouldn’t have provided Manish with an answer to his questions. The only thing is… Those answers wouldn’t support the story Manish was pushing. And honestly… That’s not Journalism, that’s self promotion.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
the "Consensus" in the lockerroom was that Manning would be great on the Jets. That doesn’t mean that a "Consensus" doesn’t support Sanchez as the teams QB, just that Manning would be a great guy to have on the team.
I don’t think you’d hear that if you polled a team that believed in its quarterback.
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The only places you wouldn't hear a consensus of the team saying Manning would be great
Would be the Saints, Packers, and Patriots. Other than those three, i think every other team would say the same thing the “Consensus” of the Jets (who were interviewed) would say.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
I don’t agree at all. I don’t think you’d hear anybody from Detroit, Cincinnati, Carolina, or even Denver say they want to get rid of their young QB.
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Were they asked?
And they never said they wanted to get rid of Mark. The “Consensus” said that Manning would be great on the team.
I imagine that the question was…
Would you be open to the team getting Peyton Manning if he’s available?
I also think that line of questioning fits with the “Experienced veteran to push Mark Sanchez”.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
Spin, baby. Spin.
I imagined the same thing happening.
That’s like when they asked Mangold about if he’d like to have Payton – when he was on 1050 – he knew the context of the question and how it would come off. Hence the Joe Montana/Dan Marino response.
I get the sense that the editors/Manish found a way to make it sell. And boy did they.
Their job is to sell papers
I just hate that the media has become nothing but a bunch of people trying to push their agenda’s on everyone rather than report what is actually happening, give fair coverage to both sides and let the reader decide.
I would have had more respect for the story if it said, Mangold and Hunter are 100% behind Sanchez but some other members of the team have lost faith in him.
That sounds a lot more like what is actually happening that what Manish wrote.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
jetsbill who started this whole Manning crap
none other than the HEAD Coach.he is the one that 1st said He take Manning some saying he said in joke, maybe he did and maybe he didnt…a HC doesnt say that then turn around and say He backs his current QB 100%…for 3 yrs this locker-room has had freedom..and too say that next season that will come to a close I dont see it happening…look around the league at ur other TOP teams ,everyone of them took a good 2-3 seasons too be rid of locker-room Issues…
even 1 player showing a dis-trust in His QB is bad…all u need is 1 to begin a fall…I do feel and believe that those who are having 2nd thoughts about the current QB does exist.be it players or Coach;s or Both…there is internal problems with-in that locker-room and ALl I say began when a player ASKED TOO BE REleased!!!!!
good post john b
you make some excellent points.
i would be surprised after the season we just had if every player was fully behind sanchez , so in that respect its something i bet sanchez was expecting . he doesn’t have an ability issue , it seems more like a confidence issue . hopefully getting new coaches in place will help him get back on the horse , so to speak , and i think we see sanchez take a big jump this year .
year 3 is usually the year QB’s make the biggest jump but with sanchez i feel because of his lack of games in college i think this upcoming season is when we see that jump.
if its for you it won't pass you
Assuming he sensationalized the story.
He probably did not. He has a lot of connections with players on the team. A bunch gave there two cents, and it was the same two cents…. that Sanchez is lacking. It is a story worth telling, that Schotty may simply be the scapegoat for poor QB play and most of the blame falls on Sanchez.
I disagree with Woody and others about being “anonymous.” Easy for him to say, he’s retired. Some of these guys play for the team now, under contract and would get fined or cut if their names are divulged. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but assuming your opinion is always correct is ignorant.
Manish is writing what he has been told from multiple Jets. Now you all no, no more Schotty blame. If Sanchez still cannot scan the entire field and deliver accurate strikes from 5 yards and 20+ yards away, then the same result will unfold, even if Sean Payton was the OC.
It doesn't add up, Manish is my favorite and he's really credible too
But EVERYBODY says the kid works hard, so what’s going on? I could see content because he knows he’s not going to be benched, but even Woody J came out to say today that “He’s the first guy in the building every morning and the last guy to leave. So, the last thing he is is lazy.” And with the whole anonymity thing, he could have just asked everybody on the practice squad. I don’t know, it just doesn’t add up to what we know to be true.
"Chrebet is magic!"
Here is the other thing
It isn’t a QBs job to coach himself.
Sanchez is at the facility first and leaves last. I have no reason to believe this isn’t true, since plenty of Jets who are not too chicken shit to go on the record said so.
Therefore, if Sanchez is putting in the time and still looks confused reading defenses — which he does — then one of two things is true. Either Sanchez simply lacks the skills necessary to learn what he needs to learn or he has been coached poorly.
I learn toward blaming the coaches and management since there is no indication that they have tried alternative approaches with Sanchez: It took 3 years to get rid of Schotty and they brought back the same mentoring team of Cavanaugh and Brunell that has failed to develop Sanchez properly.
Until the coaches tell me that Sanchez isn’t studying what they tell him to study or that they have tried multiple approaches to teaching Sanchez and he simply can’t follow along, then I will lean towards blaming the coaching staff for his slow development.
The problem with a quote like “lazy” is that it is pure opinion. The anonymous “teammate” didn’t mention any actual facts that one could objectively confirm.
Has it occured to anyone, or does anyone else think that
Rex as well as the team brass only support Sanchez only just to keep his confidence intact? Because it’s well and clear that once his confidence goes, he goes weak in the knees and can’t hit the broad side of a warship.
I wonder what his stats are AFTER throwing an interception in a game. If we’re up and he throws an interception, no worries. Defense will probably stop them anyway… but if we’re down and he throws one… Game. Set. Match.
I think Rex supports him,
because Rex NEVER throws a player under the bus. He also appears to have developed an affection for Sanchez, but the bottom line is – and it’s been mentioned before – Rex is a totally non-starter when it comes to offensive coaching. I think he sees bursts of talent from Sanchez, moments when he carries his team on his back in the waning minutes, and is just wondering when the iron is going to get hot and stay hot.
So I disagree that they are doing it just to keep his confidence intact. That said, you’re absolutely right that when his confidence goes, his technique goes, his decision-making becomes suspect, and the passing game just falls into a black hole.
No doubt they need to keep his confidence up, but they need to shore up his confidence at practice and on the field, not in the media. In fact, I think Sanchez takes the media hits in stride pretty well. It’s the hits on the field that seem to hurt most (both the physical ones and the picks/fumbles/incompletions). He needs to be confident in his O-line and be confident in his skills – even ones he hasn’t really developed all that well yet, like reading defenses – and then you’ll see this canned PR crap about Sanchez stop.
I don't know if I agree that Rex fully supports him...
He may, but the way that Rex goes about showing it is at the root of why I think specifically these “unnnamed” players are saying they’d rather have Peyton Manning. I forgot when it was specifically but I remember when Rex was asked if he had the choice of Peyton Manning or Mark Sanchez, he made a joke and then went on to say “Who wouldn’t want Peyton Manning?” Why did he have to say that? That comment was throwing Sanchez under the bus. He could have simply said “I support Mark, he’s my QB and I don’t want anyone else” or he could have done even better than that, and simply not dignify that question with an answer. Instead he went the totally opposite way and did the “Rex thing”.
Now, these “unnamed” players see that the coach never had a problem saying it, so they might as well say their true thoughts and that is the whole problem. Rex created a bunch of mini-Rex’s in that locker room and now it’s imploded, leaking about and is becoming hard to stop.
by winnebagosun on Jan 12, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
If he actually does shut down,
It’s on the coaches and his team mates. If his teammates and coaches see that the kid is getting down on himself, they have to help him move past it. If this is an issue, i think Revis and Cro need to teach the kid how to get past it and give everything on the next play.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
No, I disagree.
He has control over how he reacts. If he’s REALLY student of the game like he says, he watches all those other great QB’s and sees how they react to when they make a mistake. He should know better all on his own. Plus, it’s basic knowledge. You have to have a short memory in this League.
That's just it
Everyone has their flaws. If sanchez’s flaw is that he gets down on himself and has trouble dealing with adversity, his teammates and coaches need to pick him up. And with playing in NY it’s even more of an issue. the media is going to run with whatever line they want to push.
What do you think would help more… Sanchez sitting on the sideline moping, or the D saying, don’t worry, we got this shit, and then the OC sitting down with him to uncover the mistake and then calling in the O and rallying around the QB? Seems pretty basic to me.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
But ultimately
it falls on Sanchez to want to correct his own flaws, isn’t it? I mean, if you tell me I have a flaw, I’m going to do everything in my power to correct it to better myself. Unless of course, what you’re saying is something that I don’t agree is a flaw at all. But in Sanchez’s case, it’s DEFINITELY a flaw.
Without a doubt.
Where i have the issue is that this is suppose to be a team, not a group of individuals. And when you’re on a team, you want those guys around you to be as good as they can, and help them overcome their flaws. And if a guy on your team has some confidence issues, it’s pretty easy to help him overcome them with some positive encouragement.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
Well said.
But it’s not just a team. It’s also a business. He is costing his other teammates money in the long run by causing so many turnovers that they miss the playoffs. You would think that his teammates WANT to help him, right? But we cannot say for sure what happens behind those locker room doors. What if they have been helping him, but to no avail? Perhaps they’re giving up, and if they’re giving up it falls on him again lol
I think you're right
And i think some of them did give up on Sanchez, and the team. And those are guys i don’t want on the team. I would rather have 11 losers than 1 quitter any day of the week.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
ur last statement holds alot of truth BUT?
we dont see that.look at Miami game as a example..he isnt going over his latest mis-cue,also have to look at the def side of ball for a few here..You go out and hold the other team, out comes OL..and nothing happens other than a INT..pick-6 after awhile that def has a tendency to say screw this,we keep backing Him and He keeps screwing up…
during the yr everytime he called out a Kill-Kill that play went nowhere..right there shows He still hasnt learned to read a Def..as 1 person said he can watch game film 365/24 and if he doesnt KNOW what he needs to be looking for he will never advance..and alot of His KILL-KILL plays show that too a “T”…
Evident in everything you saying and what I've been saying came from another source as well.
All these people want to attack Manish for giving the outlet sounds silly to me .
Did they ever hear of not killing the messenger (guess not) …..
But what do these people have to say about Damien Woody comments on Sanchez" being babied" in the organization and that they should bring in a veteran, but the most telling thing he said was…..
That he agrees that the Jets coaches and front office have avoided publicly criticizing Sanchez – and he thinks they’ve shielded him from the media. “you never hear any type of criticism”, Woody said. We all watch the games. We all see the obvious. Sometimes you just see people throwing statistics out there when we know. Come on your eyes don’t lie. (this to me sounds like he’s talking to Rex, you know the whole we are number one in the red zone thing)
I dont want to repost the whole article but one other thing he said was “the organization can do a better job of letting the man be a man and stand up and take the bullets like other players”…..
To me this may be why others players in the locker room see it as double standard for a player who hasn’t gotten it done and why he gets upset when the backup takes five snaps with the first team offence and he gets all ruffled about it when other players got to perform every time out or their job is taken in a week.
These words are from someone who was a leader for the Jets and has put his body on the line for Sanchez and is putting his name on his quotes. He appears to be honest. So what the excuse makers are going to say about this view.
The Hardest thing for some men to do is .... Believe what they see!
That comment was a reply for umohan21 and mrsunshine
The Hardest thing for some men to do is .... Believe what they see!
What I've seen from the outside jives with what D-Wood says.
I think some of the “opinion” quotes from the Mehta article are ridiculous – the ones about Sanchez being “lazy” or “content,” for example. But my issues with the article are more about the way it was presented by Mehta (i.e., with anonymous sources, where you don’t know the authority of those sources – calling a player “well-respected” doesn’t tell me if it’s Brandon Moore or the 53rd man on the roster). I can’t really opine on the other things that were said because no facts were presented to support the statements that Sanchez is “coddled” or “babied.”
That said, I think we all are seeing bits of things we recognize – Sanchez’s shaken confidence, his missed throws, the fact that the organization won’t say an unkind word about him (until Tanny’s recent comments about him not progressing how he should). And I think D-Wood’s comments fit in with the picture we see from the outside. If Sanchez’s OC and HC are his best buds, and Tanny’s reputation is staked on the Sanchez draft trade-up, it makes sense that they’re not hard enough on him.
Here’s hoping that Sparano does it differently and better.
The facts was presented from his own eyes from when he was part of the team
Also big Kris Jenkings said the exact same thing earlier this season right after the first losing streak before all the media came down on the anonymous guys and before all the blame went towards Holmes … These are former leaders on this team from one year ago you know they’re still connected to this team and are still respected.
The Hardest thing for some men to do is .... Believe what they see!
Yeah man, all the way.
I firmly believe what Rex thinks, and what Rex says about Sanchez are two different things. You’ve seen how fired up Rex has become, but why can’t he yell at that kid when he throws a pick, or especially a pick 6? Those kind of mistakes cost us games. But it’s because the kid has the confidence of a ten year old kid in front of a beautiful girl he has a crush on. Exactly, he has absolutely none. If Rex were to actually get a viable backup to fight for playing time, instead of rising up to the competition Sanchez would sink below it.
It should've always been competition for every position
Especially when he showed to be not catching on to the offensive system or He was being sensitive to tuff love.
The Hardest thing for some men to do is .... Believe what they see!
I can't believe I'm even reading this from you
First of all. The inside source is 80% chance of being Santonio Holmes. There’s a guy that is ignorant, would go to the media, and cares about stats for himself more than all else. That’s the reason the name wasn’t put in the source. He’d be off the team if he did. The fact that he was just talked about as a locker room cancer is proof that he wanted some get back. He felt slighted and wanted to throw some dirt.
How can Sanchez be a lazy QB, when he is the one calling the receiver meetings and extra film sessions AFTER PRACTICE on his own time? He’s lazy, despite Holmes standing in the back of the room and not even showing up? When half the guys on the team are standing up to defend you, that proves who you are. When one unnamed source tries to drag you down, that is just a telling statement about that unnamed source and the type of character they have.
Finally. I am not a Sanchez groupie. He is not perfect, and he does have his flaws. However, why does he have to prove himself according to you? Did his first 3 seasons not give enough “proof” as to him being a good and improving quarterback.
To be fair, he is right now on the level of a Jason Campbell. If you ever read the reports on Jason Campbell when he was a Redskin they went like this. He eats, breaths, and lives football. He is constantly studying film, he wants to get better. When he’s on the field, he has a strong arm, but he takes a while getting through his reads. Jason Cambell is in his 8th year, he is a career 60% thrower with 22 or so TD’s a year. Kyle Orton is the same kind of guy. Good, but not great. Slightly above average. Here’s the thing though. Those guys took 6 years to be at the level Sanchez is at in his 3rd year. Why is he under some scrutiny to be Payton Manning?
The Bears gave up 2 first round draft picks to get Jay Cutler, who at the time was the superstar QB they needed to get over the top. Look up Cutler’s career, and he’s never in his life had 1 season as good as the one Sanchez just had. And 2 1st round picks were traded for this guy!
I’m sorry to disagree, but enough with the Sanchez name calling. He’s not good enough, now he has to be lazy too? None of us are in the locker room, but the guys that had to practice with him on offense day in and day out dispel this rumor, that’s good enough for me.
These are the 1st round quarterbacks of 10 years. Tell me if you’d rather have Sanchez or these guys drafted in the 1st round.
David Carr- 1st overall pick of 2002
Joey Harrington- 3rd overall pick of 2002
Patrick Ramsey- 32nd overall pick of the 2002
Byron Leftwich- 7th overall pick of 2003
Kyle Boller- 19th overall pick of 2003
Rex Grossman- 22nd overall pick of 2003
J.P. Losman- 22nd pick of 2004
Alex Smith- 1st overall pick of 2005
Vince Young- 3rd overall pick of 2006
Matt Leinart- 10th overall pick of 2006
JaMarcus Russell- 1st overall pick of 2007
Brady Quinn- 22nd overall pick of 2007
Tim Tebow- 25th overall pick of 2010
That’s what you get the majority of the time. If you think you need a change, look at that list first. There’s good guys like Rodgers, Eli Manning, Rothlesburger, Rivers, and even Stafford, but those are maybe 1/4 of the guys your gonna get when you take a swing at a quarterback and say “Sanchez and his 32 TD’s are lazy and we need Manning”. Now I’m just pissed because whoever this unnamed “source” is, has other people wondering. If I wake up in June and see the next Joey Harrington got drafted because people swear Sanchez can’t cut it, I’m gonna have a seizure.
Manish said this is not just two or three guys.
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It's at least 2-3 former teammates as well that paint him in a somewhat unflattering light
So is everybody who nitpick at his game is jealous or an a-hole ….?
I don’t think so but one thing is evident and that is he does not demand respect universally in player circles.
I don’t want to hear from the aftermath support system PR swing thing, I know Mangold was doing/saying the right thing.
What I really want to see is him “Sanchize” do is some standing up for himself you know , to hell with the politically correct shit. Let the naysayers know that your here to get the job done if it’s the last thing you do. Where’s the fire and the passion he shows when he’s winning? …. Grow up and shed the sensitive hard knocks shit we saw a season ago!
The Hardest thing for some men to do is .... Believe what they see!
My guess is
Sanchez is hoping that by keeping his mouth shut the story fades away. Same thing happened with the 17-year-old-girl story from Deadspin last year which – if you recall – ALSO dropped right after the Jets’ season ended.
This is not to say standing up for himself would be the wrong thing, but that’s probably what his “people” are telling him to do. I wouldn’t mind hearing from him, but I’d put a wager on it we won’t hear a peep out of him – not a tweet, not an interview, NOTHING – until this thing fades away. And I bet, even then, anyone permitted to interview him will only be allowed to ask about it in the most cursory way. That’s the PR machine, baby.
Where do some of these claims come from?
Jay Cutler’s QB rating by year:89,88,86,77,86,86. He has only been under 60% completion percentage one time. Campbell was never a guy to throw a lot or for a lot of yards, but his completion percentages and QB ratings were higher (significantly) than Sanchez and from early on. Sanchez’ year this year is a lot worse than you make it out to be because it was a massively inflated passing year, and it is one where he played not a single game in the rain or snow, faced horrible passing defenses that knew they only had to play zone to beat him, and still he had a crap load of TOs and a completion percentage under 57%. You make some reasonable points but you do not do yourself a service by skewing the numbers or their meaning.
Mark Sanchez gave you 26 TD's and 18 INT's along with 6 rushing TD's. Jay Cutler Stats.
Passing
Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int
2006 Denver Broncos 5 5 137 81 59.1 1001 7.31 71 9 5
2007 Denver Broncos 16 16 467 297 63.6 3497 7.49 68 20 14
2008 Denver Broncos 16 16 616 384 62.3 4526 7.35 93 25 18
2009 Chicago Bears 16 16 555 336 60.5 3666 6.61 71 27 26
2010 Chicago Bears 15 15 432 261 60.4 3274 7.58 89 23 16
2011 Chicago Bears 10 10 314 182 58.0 2319 7.39 56 13 7
Jay has also fumbled the ball 8, 11, 5, 9, 10, and 7 times in 10 games this year. People talk about Mark not taking care of the ball. Mark has proven in my opinion to be a better QB than Cutler has been in any year of his career. The Broncos have always had a running game, weather or not they choose to use it is debatable. They have always had a good o-line and running game since Touchdown Terrell Davis was there.
This post isn’t about Mark and Jay Cutler though. I was just pointing out that people crap on him, but look at what he’s doing in year 3. He doesn’t need to prove anything in my mind because he already has. I used Cutler as an example because I think they are similar types of quarterbacks, strong armed, same size build, both streaky. However we say Mark has to turn a corner or he’s gone. No one has ever said that about Jay Cutler. Why is that? Jay also never rushed for more than 2 TD’s in a season by the way. That’s why I say this year of Sanchez is better than any Jay Cutler year.
Wait one second-
that is why we have aggregate stats. Things like DYAR, DVOA, QBR, Passer rating and EPA. Most of them take into account fumbles (except Passer rating). All of them take into account TDs, INTs and also completion percentage. Many take into account game situation. All of them say that Cutler has had several years better than Sanchez’ best. Same with Campbell. It matters because in effect you are trying to say that people are being too tough on Mark’s performace when in actuality he is closer so far to the Carr’s and Harrington’s of the world by performance than most who become successful. We can argue if 3 years is enough 9it probably is not-e.g. Eli) and we can argue if he alone is responsible (is not) but that is a different thing…
I'm not lying, just look up at the stats
Jay Cutler is not doing what Sanchez is doing. His passing stats are slightly better, and I say slightly because you have to take into account he’s thrown it 100 more times and only gotten 1 more TD passing for all those passes. He’s also a fumble prone guy in addition to being an interception prone guy. Then there’s the winning. Mark wins games, Jay is not a winner. Cutler gets all the props of being a “gunslinger” , but Mark is a lazy? Mark is bringing players out on his own money and holding off season mini camps, but this article claims he is lazy and not a leader. Cutler is sitting on the bench in the playoffs, while his team still has a chance of winning the game. Mark gets hit over and over and we say he is too slow in his reads. Jay gets abused and people say he needs better protection. Mark throws 18 picks and he is erratic throwing the ball. Cutler throws 26 INT’s and people say those Bears need to get him some weapons. It’s not important because this blog is about locker room snitches and not Jay vs Mark. I just firmly believe there is a double standard in the NFL.
Coincidentally, this is #1 pick Eli Manning’s first 3 years in the NFL. Put Mark Sanchez’s first 3 up against this.
2004 1000 yards passing 6 TD’s 9 INT’s 48.2% completions
2005 3700 yards passing 24 TD’s 17INT’s 52.8% completions
2006 3200 yards passing 24 TD’s 18INT’s 57.7% completions
That’s 1st round #1 pick Eli Manning who played 4 years of college football at Ole Miss. Were there playoff’s and NFC championship games in there? He fumbled the ball 9 times a season to go with those stats. Sanchez fumbled 10 this year. So there you have it. This is 3rd year Eli Manning to go with Jay Cutler.
Why is Mark Sanchez held to some ridiculous standard? Was Eli Manning ever about to get cut? This guy also had a young Jeremy Shockey and Plaxico Burress. There is clearly a double standard. Mark could have won a super bowl and people would still be saying garbage about him.
OK-I don't really want to get into an argument.
My point is that there are several well established aggregate stats and they all paint the same picture that Cutler usually is better than Sanchez at his best. Singling out the “passing stats” you like is beside the point because we can look at these as a better way to gauge things than cherry picking.
I agree about Eli. The funny thing about Eli is he was so poor in his 4th year that you really have to wonder if he didn’t win the superbowl what would have happened. 4 years and he was flat line crappy with calls for his head. It’s important to keep in mind however that while it might have been wrong for the Giants to get rid of Eli in retrospect, that does not mean that all QBs that are disappointing in the first several years will turn things around as they get older…
Stats
stats can be decieving one says he’s not so good and another is a comparison of Brees and E Manning in their 3rd year and its about the same as Sanchez. What bothers me more than anything is not the stats its the fact that he leads the league in giving up points. How many fumbles did he have that were returned for TD’s and How many pick 6’s did he have? Between the 2 they top the league. It kills your team. Even if the defence was number 1 in the league you could still loose the games. How many INT’s and fumbles that weren’t TD’s ended up deep in their own side of the field that ended up Fieldgoals or TS’s that count against the defence. These are the real problems. Having a 58% completion rate not great but throwing picks and fumbling the ball are much worse.
Yeah but a lot of that fluctuates and is not under the QBs control
as much as rate stats. I wouldn’t read too much into that other than he is a bit clueless in trying to do too much or holding the ball too long.
One more thing
Of all the games we played, I’d say there were a few we lost (i.e. Oakland/Denver) because our defense didn’t hold up. As far as I know, Offense almost evened out the game in Oakland and Mark played his butt off! If his knee would not have been ruled down on that last touchdown you kind of get the feeling that they could have won that game with an onside kick… but again, the defense really did a number on us. And that was w/o Mangold! Ravens game was just aweful because of O-Line, but even that interception for a runback was on Santonio Holmes who should have run his ass off and tackled the guy instead of throwing up his hands like a wimp ass bitch. Even against the Giants, the 99 yard by Victor Cruz was on the Defense. We were ahead by that point and just needed to hang on.. I think Mark’s getting the brunt of it undeserved. Just look at the Buffalo game (4 TD that won us the game) and people still bitched about his play. Haters will never be happy.
Another Excellent Article
The one thing I must take issue with, however, is that at the end of your 3rd paragraph, you state that there is a “consensus” wanting a different QB on the team. That is not accurate. What Mehta said was that there was a significant number of players who felt that way, and it was more than just 2 or 3. He said nothing about a “consensus”. A consensus indicates that it is the majority opinion. I have seen absolutely nothing to indicate that this is the majority opinion. In fact, Mehta says it isn’t the majority. He says,
Asked about the size of the anti-Sanchez camp, Mehta said that "it’s definitely more than a few isolated players, but I wouldn’t necessarily say that it’s just about every player. It’s a significant number, and it’s a number I’ve been keeping tabs on throughout the course of the season.
"Reality is purely the perception of the individual mind. It follows, that since no two minds are alike, no two perceptions of reality are alike. It further follows, that what reality is to one, may seem complete madness to someone else."
– Yefim Novikov
Consensus is Mehta’s word, not mine. It appears in the article.
Editor-In-Chief
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Sorry
I thought that was your word.
"Reality is purely the perception of the individual mind. It follows, that since no two minds are alike, no two perceptions of reality are alike. It further follows, that what reality is to one, may seem complete madness to someone else."
– Yefim Novikov
Actually
He said that there was a consensus that “at the very least, the Jets must sign a legitimate veteran backup to push their young quarterback.”
You said that there was a consensus that the players were “wanting a different man at the position.”
That is completely different. The fact that a word “appears” in an article, doesn’t mean that you can rip it out of context and apply it to a separate issue.
It appears that there are several claims being made, each with different levels of support:
1. Jets should sign legitimate backup: A consensus
2. Jets would be better with a different QB: “a significant number”
3. Sanchez is lazy: 1 (cowardly) guy
That is completely different. The fact that a word "appears" in an article, doesn’t mean that you can rip it out of context and apply it to a separate issue.
I just checked. I made an error and misread. I will correct it in this post.
I’d expect better from you than to imply that I’m intentionally taking things out of context to suit an agenda.
Editor-In-Chief
Gang Green Nation
SB Nation's Jets Blog
http://www.ganggreennation.com
That's why i like you John
when you screw up, you take the blame and fix it.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
Shhhhh, they'll hurt my family if you blow the lid off of the conspiracy
Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
GangGreenNation.com
Its like a Jets writer code with a secret hand shake and all...
Will you guys stop at nothing to destroy our mood about our beloved Jets!?!?
by CervezaVerde on Jan 12, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
lol
+1 for admitting your error.
-2 for trying to make me look bad for pointing it out.
I don’t think you are trying to intentionally deceive people. I think people see what they want to see and have a tendency to see facts in ways that reinforce their preconceptions.
This is why I took issue with interjecting the bitching from some anonymous source with an axe to grind into an otherwise reasonable article. Because readers will unintentionally, but subconsciously, associate and conflate the “lazy” comment made by one guy with legitimate concerns by many players that the Jets need a viable backup….as you just did.
by square1 on Jan 12, 2012 5:20 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Hell...
I like Sanchez and I think we need a legitimate backup. Even if we had Peyton Manning or Drew Brees… I don’t want Brunnel as my backup!
Mark performs bigger when the stage is bigger.
So make him fight for his job. I get the feeling it’s in his personality/character to step up. More than that, especially if they don’t find a solid replacement for Hunter (or if it’s someone who needs some adjustment time), it’ll be nice not to have to wince every time Sanchez takes a hit, knowing that Grandpa Brunell is next in line to the throne.
I've always supported sanchez
I like the guy, and i’m well aware that there are a lot of things he needs to get better at. In all realism, this is his make or break year. If he doesn’t prove to the management this year that he’s the answer, it may be time to move on.
I won't immediately expect success, I'll put it that way
my hope is that strengthening other parts of the offense improves Sanchez.
If he has a horrible year next season, it’s hard to justify retaining him.
Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
GangGreenNation.com
If they make the playoffs and do some damage next year
I don’t think he necessarily has to have fantastic stats or show a super quantum leap as long as he plays well and wins games. I think his fate could be somewhat tied to the playoffs.
if they can just implement a successful system like they did with Alex Smith
I think he can be much more than the low expectations we have for him now.
Just implement a system that is actually designed for him and not some other QB.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
exactly what I mean
they did it for Alex Smith, they did it for Tebow. And I think us Jet fans know for a fact that Sanchez has more talent than either of these two.
Well, and also,
in the 2010-2011 season, there was a string of about 4-5 games that were decided in the final minutes/OT. We made it to the playoffs – where Sanchez had a stellar performance – because those wins put us over the top numbers-wise.
This year, we didn’t win the close games. And some of them that should’ve been close were not that close. If we see a turnaround – that is, a swing in momentum – I think you’ll see the swagger come back.
darshv3
I don’t think that we should necessarily move on, but another option should be heavily weighed upon
If you look at joe flaccos numbers, he has a 1% better comp% 200 yds more then Sanchez. Sanchez has 11 more total TDs then him. No one is saying flacco is regressing because his team Is winning, It’s a bunch of horse shit if you tell me and also where is all the shit talk about josh freeman now. It’s amazing what happens when u play in NY
by dawg1331 on Jan 12, 2012 4:18 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Sanchez also wasn’t getting this kind of scrutiny when the Jets were winning.
Editor-In-Chief
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Exactly. But you never hear anything bad about flacco, who’s in his fourth year and has shitter numbers
by dawg1331 on Jan 12, 2012 5:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I heard today on Sirius XM NFL Baltimore press
is hard on Flacco. The press says that the team wins despite Flacco. He gets it hard but in his 4 seasons his team has made the playoffs every year. Our team didn’t lose because Sanchez they fell apart at the seams in every area. His loss of confidence hurt him and the team more than anyone obviously saw until now when all the teams frustrations are coming out. As much as I hate the article that Manish wrote, just so TMZ to me, he is not their friends and he needs to look out for himself and help sell papers. They all make a lot more money then him and maybe he got mad at Mark for unfollowing him on Twitter. :-) According to the Deadspin artlcle. How do they know that stuff. So silly.
by Dana Feldman on Jan 12, 2012 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
You're a stat guy Buzzy
Do you think he regressed? His stats actually improved.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
Lets see.
Flacco I think did regress or at least had a bad year for him. Sanchez is a bit more complicated. I think you can make a case for regressed, basically stayed the same, or mildly improved. I think a stronger case can be made for the first two. I would say that in an odd way he was no more valuable than he was in 2010, and if worse not by too much. Kind of wimpy, but many factors paint a really complicated picture here.
Pretty strange
How Flacco actually did regress, yet.. he’s not getting slammed like Sanchez, and Sanchez has a very similar stat wise year when compared to last year with a few improvements and a few regressions. Yet….
Flacco summed it up perfectly on ESPN… If i throw 50 times, the writers will say, What the hell are you doing. And if i throw 20 times, they’ll say we need to throw the ball more. Flacco basically said that he’s damned if he does and he’s damned if he doesn’t. And he’s right.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
I think that's true and there are several obvious reasons.
First, Flacco has several much better years to his credit. Second, the NY media are sharks and they sense blood. Third, as John said, when you win (and Flacco’s teams have averaged 11 wins a year and never less than 9) all’s cool. Most of these reasons are dumb, but the first is not in the sense that we are waiting to see Mark take a needed bigger step.
Can't wait for next year.
You want to go double or nothing on the $100 you owe me from last year?
I say Sanchez has a QBR over 85 for 2012. Can’t wait to see the kid in a new system not run by a complete idiot.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
Hmm
that is tempting for several reasons:
a)Although I lost that bet, it was amusing how close that came.
b)I like these kind of bets because when I lose I win (e.g. a guy I want to have success does).
c)you graciously never collected.
d)I think 85 is a good line. He can reach that and still be a mixed bag. It is not a huge leap but not a tiny one, and it would likely mean a real improvement and would make me happy and is possible, unlike if you said 95.
OK!
Ok-
It's bad for the soul not to collect a winning bet.At least a check to the Red Cross
who are always there when needed.
by Putnan Prince on Jan 12, 2012 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
I enjoy betting with people that aren't a-holes about it.
I actually won another bet last year and didn’t collect that one either. I never really like taking money from people that they worked hard for, i would rather just keep the relationship going with a double or nothing.
and when i win this one, i’ll end up going double or nothing with Buzzy again.
On a side note, i would never in a million years give money to the Red Cross. Aproximatly 10% of the money you donate to them actually goes to the person in need. The rest goes to overhead and fundraising. I would rather you give it to the church, at least that way, it all goes to helping people. And no, i dont’ go to church, and i’m not religious.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
Just so PP knows
the bet was that in 2010 Sanchez would not break a 75 QB rating. He finished at 75.3. Amazing…
Sorry pal but the church don’t give that money out to people who need either. The church is probably worse then the red cross. Just keep it for yourself.
by dawg1331 on Jan 13, 2012 12:02 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
You're talking about just this year. But even then...
Sanchez’s 26 turnovers vs. Flacco’s 18? I’ll take the 8 less turnovers to the 11 more total TDs. Either way, trust me when I say there are plenty of Flacco doubters out there. But here is the key difference—this is clearly Flacco’s worse year, including his rookie season, whereas this was Sanchez’s best or second best.
by Exystence on Jan 12, 2012 5:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
whereas this was Sanchez’s best or second best.
Haha what? Sanchez has only had 3 seasons….so what does that even mean?
That this has been him at the best we’ve seen out of him. We don’t know if this is as good as he can be. With Flacco, we KNOW he’s done better before. There’s more reason to believe Flacco will bounce back to his previous level than to believe Sanchez will get to be as good as Flacco’s ever been.
by Exystence on Jan 12, 2012 5:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't think Flacco is that great to begin with
but you’re right. That said, going beyond the #s, Sanchez has an uncharacteristically high number of fumbles lost (8 out of 10). Unless there’s a telling reason that’s not fixed, I think that number will regress to the mean of previous seasons (1 out of 9, 3 out of 10).
it should regress to close to 50%
not the mean of the previous years.
is it 50%?
it looks like it has been less than that around the league.
generally O/D recoveries
run about 50% over a large sample, but there may be some small variation with respect to position. See the excellent Brian Burke for this data:
http://www.advancednflstats.com/2010/01/fumble-rates-by-play-type.html
Great read John and I absolutely agree. It raises the issues that I think everyone deep down has about Sanchez, but may not want to speak about. His statistics are up and down, improving in some, regressing in others. However a QB is so much more than stats, it’s not just the throws he is missing, it’s how he is missing them. Not having control of the locker room, and call be cynical but i find it extremely easy to believe that Sanchez is treated a little better than most in this organization. He is the golden boy, I support Sanchez but if you have watched the Jets the last 3 years. You have to have some concerns and reservations.
Eternal optimist
New York Jets
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Jets/Cubs/Norwich City FC/PSG
You know what's kinda funny about all this?
Every non jets fans is like “the jets would be nasty if they didn’t have sanchez” but us jets fans know that this team’s problems go far beyond him, even if he’s far from perfect. It’s actually a little irritating since they act like they know what they’re talking about.
I agree with this.
And I think that some personnel revamps and a hard-nosed attitude from the new OC and whatever staff he brings in will have some effect. The one thing people repeatedly say about Sparano (and Haley if he comes with him) is that he doesn’t put up with excuses, he’s not afraid to be confrontational, and he’s a perfectionist.
I wish that was what Sanchez and the rest of the offense had all along (I think they kinda had it with Callahan, but it’s hard when there’s someone else above you that you have to answer to). I’m not creating expectations, but I’m looking forward to seeing if there are changes and improvements.
Mehta's article certainly seems lacking in journalistic integrity
It’s fine to have the source/sources as anonymous but when you won’t reveal the number of people and all the comments are subjective, then everything is put into question…if the reader actually thinks about it.
If the reader doesn’t, all it adds is fuel to the fire.
There's a conference call going on right now with Tanny and Rex about Sparano.
Rex was asked the question about the locker room comments re: Sanchez. His response:
“Saying things and not putting your name on it, that’s not being a Jet. That’s going to change.”
The bottom-line is this:
We don’t need to replace Sanchez. We just need to get him back into the confessional! Look what Jesus did for Tim Tebow!
by Joe Walton was 10-1 on Jan 13, 2012 3:02 PM EST reply actions
Your not scared
Jesus jokes might send you to hell…..
The Hardest thing for some men to do is .... Believe what they see!
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