Defending Brian Schottenheimer
by noonan1974 on Jan 11, 2012 9:22 PM EST
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Schotty
Never went deep.
Made Sanchez throw it too much times.
Makes him throw it between the narrowest spaces.
Turned down Head Coaching jobs several times when we were desperate.
By the way, you said that he couldn’t make Greene faster. Greene would have had a better season ( more like the last 2 years before this year ) if he had more opportunities.
I'm gonna keep trying for what i want and on here it's to be a staff writer for any team in the NFL on SBNation.
Couple of things
Formatting-It makes things alot easier to read than a giant blob of words
Shotty had terrible gameplans that failed to utilize his player’s strengths and it showed, he failed to have a top ten offense once since 2006 and only cracked the top 15 once (or twice)
And That Is a JET FIRST DOWN!!!
No This is Patrick...
The only reason Farve succeeded
is because he’s a Pro Bowl, future Hall of Famer, the man could understand the playbook, but also know that he could change plays and read coverages. When you ask your QB to do motions and other nonsense at the line, that’s not teaching him to read coverages, that’s having someone say, hey this is what you need to know and see.
And the home of the .... JETS!!!
Now lets get a G-D snack!!!
"You might not like that. You might be very cynical about that. Well, f**k it, I don't care what you think."-Roy McDonald
Okay it was my first post, I’ll remember the blob of words comment LOL. Anyway, a couple of notes:
1. Sanchez is in his third year. If you have to dumb down everything to simple “take 3 steps back and throw to this person” and that’s it, what do you do when that person isn’t open? A QB needs to be able to progress through reads and he can’t do it nearly fast enough, period. Defenses are not stupid, they start jumping routes and other not-so-nice things when you make things too simple.
2. The NFL is full of throwing in tight windows. Part of that is due to the Jets not having the best receiving corps. The rest of it is the simple fact that Sanchez can’t consistently throw into tight windows successfully. In 2009 and 2010 we could run really well and that made it very easy for Sanchez to manage the game. In 2011 we weren’t good enough to do that when no one was scared of Sanchez, and it was way too much for him. At his best, Sanchez is a mediocre game manager. That isn’t going to be enough in the NFL in 2012.
3. I am in no way saying Schotty was great. If he was he would have been snatched up in a heartbeat by someone else. But with all the problems on that offense most of your play calls are going to suck because too many of your players aren’t good enough. My main point was that it was way too easy to blame Schotty for problems that he didn’t create.
P.S. I double spaced this time, hope it works LOL
I have an honest question...
Are you one of Brian Schottenheimer’s kids?
That’s the only way i can see you coming up with the content of this post.
The drafts were a bust? Are you serious?
The only point i agree with you in the entire article is that Damien Woody is better than Wayne Hunter. (of course, that’s a Wayne Hunter with no offseason to practice due to a strike).
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
I don't know, 2010 didn't feel all that flukey to me.
I thought they were a pretty solid team.
by Clarke W. Griswald on Jan 11, 2012 11:05 PM EST reply actions
I also think one thing you can say to Tonys credit
Even till the day he was fired his team never quit on him. Ideally everyone would love it if we could exchange the entire offensive staff and personell with a team like the Packers or Saints. In the perfect world. The Jets are kind of hinged to Mark Sanchez right now, at least through next season. They had to purge the son of Marty, it was atrocious what the offense became, under that mans watch, down the stretch. He had to go and really Sporano and hopefully Todd Haley combo was the best available right now, especially given the players the Jets currently have. At least in my opinion, I’m not gonna turn this guy into public enemy #1 before he even takes his first press conference.
by Clarke W. Griswald on Jan 11, 2012 11:20 PM EST reply actions
It's Amazing
how blind some people can be. They can watch a football game and not see the mistakes and flaws in play calling, execution, lack of development, etc. simply mindboggling.
"Reality is purely the perception of the individual mind. It follows, that since no two minds are alike, no two perceptions of reality are alike. It further follows, that what reality is to one, may seem complete madness to someone else."
– Yefim Novikov
Amazing that some can be so blind to think one guy is the cause of all our problems
Yet gets no credit at all for the good things that did happen under him. There are a lot of people in big power positions that are still high on Schotty, but I guess some guys on a blog would know better than the guys employed by colleges and NFL football teams.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
really?
There are a lot of people in big power positions that are still high on Schotty
Besides his father, who are you speaking of?
Nick Saban, but what would he know?
The Jags just interviewed him, what would they know? And its already been put out there that Schotty wouldnt be joining his dad if he did get the Bucs job.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
by YankeesJets on Jan 12, 2012 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
if they were really that ‘high’ on Schotty, he’d have a job by now and we wouldn’t have unwittingly had our hands tied trying to make him look good. It’s funny because even in the process of getting rid of him, he seems to create problems for us.
Our hands werent tied to make him look good
It was smart business to not fire him as the Jets would be on the hook for his remaining salary. Its not his fault the team signed him to an extension after he helped take the team to back to back title games with an average at best QB. Pete Carroll along with countless others said this kid wasnt ready to be an NFL QB, Schotty did the best he could with what he had to work with.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
um yes our hands were tied.
remaining salary or not, we gave him every opportunity to land with another team and if he was actually any good, he would’ve had an NFL job over those other candidates.
Schotty did the best he could with what he had to work with.
Yes, because making Sanchez throw 67 times when the running game was working is certainly an endorsement of him doing his best with his QB. That’s why he’s not here any more because his best SUCKS.
He's not here because he was the fall guy
You can place just as much blame on this failed season on Rex. You know the coach that admitted he had no idea what was going on with his team on and off the field.
Schotty needed to go but he cant be blamed for a QB that simply cannot protect the football. Since coming into the league, he leads the NFL in fumbles and is tied for most INTs. Sorry that isn’t poor coaching, thats a kid that just doesn’t make good decisions.
You cant really expect Schotty to be a hot prospect coming off a year like this. The Jets are the joke of the league right now. In 09 and 10 Schotty declined to be interviewed for jobs when he was coming off title games.
Dont you just hate facts get in the way of a good story?
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
That's BS
He wasn’t the fall guy. Notice that they have gotten rid of most of the offensive coaches. If he was the fall guy, he’d be the only one gone.
I think that very few Jets fans believe that it was ALL Schotty’s fault. Most acknowledge that at a minimum there are questions about Sanchez, and at a maximum, he’s only a pedestrian or mediocre NFL QB and has limitations. I’ve also seen a LOT of Jets fans on numerous sites giving Rex a lot of blame as well as Sanchez.
As Jets fans, we have to hope that it was mostly Schotty and that Sparano and the new QB coach (if there is a new one) can get Sanchez playing at a higher level.
i truly think that a big part of the problem with Sanchez is that Schotty’s system is just too complex. I read an article somewhere which quoted Jets players as saying that Sanchez struggled mightily with Schotty’s game plans and often looked defeated before the game even began. That’s not putting your most important player in a position to succeed. It’s not designing your offense around the skills of your QB, but rather trying to put a square peg into a round hole. It’s stupid. Whatever Sanchez’s skills are or are not, the offensive system that Schotty employed should have been one that maximized those skills and strengths and minimized Sanchez’ flaws.
Schotty isn’t alone in putting system over player and trying to force players into “his” system. Most NFL coaches are dumbasses in that regards. They’re arrogant, blind and stupid. The best ones adapt their system or devise a system that makes use of the talents of the players one has at hand, not some ideal set of players.
"Reality is purely the perception of the individual mind. It follows, that since no two minds are alike, no two perceptions of reality are alike. It further follows, that what reality is to one, may seem complete madness to someone else."
– Yefim Novikov
I can go along with this point of view
Im far from a Schotty apologist, I just hate when peeps act like he was the entire problem. I do agree 100% about OC’s trying to force players into their systems. Could you imagine Schotty forcing his system on Tebow, lol?
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
That Would Be Very Amusing
Make it happen! LOL
"Reality is purely the perception of the individual mind. It follows, that since no two minds are alike, no two perceptions of reality are alike. It further follows, that what reality is to one, may seem complete madness to someone else."
– Yefim Novikov
most of us acknowledge he's not the entire problem
but he is the most glaring problem. You can’t properly address the other problems without getting rid of Schotty first. Now, the spotlight is on Sanchez to show some kind of improvement and on Rex to continue developing accountability within the organization.
They dragged Tom Moore out of retirement at 75
Because they had such high faith in Schottenheimer. Please dude, come off it.
by Clarke W. Griswald on Jan 14, 2012 1:08 AM EST up reply actions
come again?
I’m not sure we’re on opposite sides of this matter…if you’ve been reading my posts…
Power..why lay the blame on the OC?..
look the HC has the final say what plays are in a Teams GAMEPLAN that is FACT with ALL teams!!!.so why didnt REX make changes during the Game? or at 1/2 time? but waits till after the game to voice his thoughts?..say what U want,good Coach;s-bad Coach;s it all rest upon the PLAYERS on the fiield to follow there Gameplan
as for ALl those attempts against Giants was because of the DB-pass covergae..Giants ya have great front 4 but there DB;s at times are very poor…so U try to “jump” that aspect..But u get burnt when having a QB that cant exucute the plays.holds the ball too long(why u think in practise there always blowing a Bell or horn to get the QB to release quicker…
Steve Young I think said it best..He said He see;s where Mark is making errors, when he drops back he TENDS too TAKE HIS Eyes off His Rec;s and when he does look back towards them there well covered…and at that point even His “out-route-safety -net is covered”…Mark needs to release quicker just because U Coach Him doesnt equal him grasping it fully!!!
No One Said He Was the Cause of ALL Our Problems
But he was the cause of most of our offense’s problems, quite possibly including most of Sanchez’ as well. I believe we will see a markedly different and more effective offense and Sanchez in 2012. Many of the things that Schotty did undermined the few good things he did, and created additional problems for the offense.
"Reality is purely the perception of the individual mind. It follows, that since no two minds are alike, no two perceptions of reality are alike. It further follows, that what reality is to one, may seem complete madness to someone else."
– Yefim Novikov
He had an awful QB, a terrible line and an up and down run game
Sanchez’s problems came from the awful line. Its funny, at times we all wanted Brunell in there, but looking back I think Sanchez knew that wasn’t going to work and kept getting up. The kid makes horrible mistakes but he keeps getting up. I think the Baltimore game screwed up his confidence in the line and his fear of getting hurt led him to checkdown too often. This also of course led to some bad INTs and fumbles.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
Whose Fault is the Terrible O- Line and Run Game?
Schotty was the OC. The bottom line is that he had the responsibility for the offense and how it functioned. The buck stopped with him. If Callahan or Ellard or Lynn weren’t doing their jobs well and their players weren’t executing and producing as expected, then it was Shotty’s job to see that they did. He needed to make the necessary changes in how practices went and focus more on fundamentals and discipline, or needed to make his offense and game plans less complicated. Rex’s philosophy is or at least was, to keep things likable and learnable. That wasn’t Schotty’s philosophy. His offense is known as being overly complex, with all its pre-snap motion and reads. He could have simplified and changed things as he had to for Favre (because Favre refused to play in Schotty’s regular system). By all appearances, Schotty didn’t change anything, either with his system or the way he handled practices.
With All Pros who are rocket scientists at every offensive position, perhaps Schotty’s offensive system would be recognized as the greatest ever and be dominant. The problem is that one will never have that on the football field, except maybe at Harvard, Columbia or Yale or another Ivy League School. Many football players are downright dumb. They get by on their physical prowess and athleticism, not their mental acumen.
Sanchez may still prove to be a dud as a starting QB, but none of the QBs who has ever played in Schotty’s system has flourished. That should tell you something. He’s never had a top 10 offense in spite of having a lot of talent and different players playing the offense. That again should tell you something.
"Reality is purely the perception of the individual mind. It follows, that since no two minds are alike, no two perceptions of reality are alike. It further follows, that what reality is to one, may seem complete madness to someone else."
– Yefim Novikov
Other than Favre, who has he had under center that could lead us to a top 10 offense?
No matter what talent you have on the offense, it all goes back to who you have at QB. The only elite QB Schotty has ever had was Favre, and he was hurt for some of the year.
You cant have a top offense without a QB that can stretch the field. Pennington and Sanchez obviously cant stretch the field and Clemens never got enough of a look with a good line to show he could.
Schotty’s system probably was too complex and it did seem like he was out to prove himself a genius with some of his head scratching calls. Hopefully Sparano helps the players meet expectations with a simpler system.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
Actually
Sanchez throws a very good deep ball. As someone said earlier, go back and look at some of his throws in 2009 and 2010. Listen, I don’t know if it was Schotty’s system or lack of faith in Sanchez, whether it was Rex wanting shorter, safer passes, whether the OL was so poor this season that Sanchez didn’t believe he had time to look down field or just panicked, or what, but there’s no doubt that the dink and dunk took over this year. It was reminiscent of when Penny was quarterbacking the team.
I think with a simpler, better system tailored to Sanchez strengths, with a better OL that can give him time, with a better, more consistent running attack, and with WRs who can get open and not quit when the going gets tough, Sanchez would have at least a chance to lead the Jets to a top 10 offense. I’m not saying he would succeed, but he’d have a much greater chance than any QB not named Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees or Tom Brady would in Schotty’s offense.
If he doesn’t show significant improvement under Sparano in 2012, then the Jets should find a new QB. I’m hoping he will. It would be much better for the Jets if he develops and pans out so all those picks weren’t wasted and they don’t have to start over.
"Reality is purely the perception of the individual mind. It follows, that since no two minds are alike, no two perceptions of reality are alike. It further follows, that what reality is to one, may seem complete madness to someone else."
– Yefim Novikov
He was downright awful...
Schotty called plays so predictably I knew what was coming 80% of the time and I haven’t played football since highschool. So you can bet your ass that the NFL caliber defenses knew what was coming too…do you know how hard it is to play successfully when the other team knows what is coming and has the perfect defense on the field. Schotty would make mindnumbingly dumb calls like going empty backfield on 3 and 1 or 4 and 1. This totally takes away the threat of the run which is viability dangerous in any situation where you only need to pick up one yard.
Schotty has not feel for the game and can’t make adjustments. If something is working instead of making the other team stop it he just moves on to his next genius play which often fails. He never makes adjustments or exploits mismatches…he refused to throw the ball more then 5-10 yards. I could go on and on and on so we will just leave the above as a sample of some things he did wrong…..also one extra point the Jets didn’t tank because B Favre and Mangini got fired…Favre and Mangini got fired because they tanked. If the Jets made it to the playoffs and maybe won a game or two Favre and Mangini likely wouldn’t have gotten fired.
I disagree with most of this...
that is all
founding member of PACOS (People Against the Constant Overuse of Sarcastic font)
GGN-Moderator
sepcifically the drafts...
how were 2009 and 10 almost complete disastors? At this point Ducasse is the only possible bust from either of those (I would include Powell from 2011 as well) drafts (and he even has a bit more time to prove himself), Slausson has become a down right steal from 2009, Greene has been a value pick boarderline steal if he ever breaks out, and while Sanchez (specifically the trade part) can be questioned he has still been ok. Wilson has proved to me this season he was the right pick in 2010, McKnight and Connor was also great picks for where they were taken. I actually think for the number of picks we had (and of course that part can be debated) a very good job was done in all three drafts (even with Ducasse and Powell being busts).
founding member of PACOS (People Against the Constant Overuse of Sarcastic font)
GGN-Moderator
Cannot just balme Shotty
I have to agree on most of your comments…We lost a lot of good players from the 2 years we were in the playoffs… O line was the biggest. If you cannot move people out of the way you cannot run. Not to many options left . I still think getting rid of Thomas Jones was a bad move… LT is great but TJ can move piles… I think our issues start there….
uh are you kidding me
Thomas Jones was on his last legs here. He has no push anymore and he does not move piles.
+1
everyone points to the yardage in 2009, but if you watched those games it was almost 100% because of the push the oline was getting, TJ was going down at first sign of contact, and I think he ranked dead last in all starting RB that year in yards after contact. And as for his leadership, wasn’t he the same player that was practically given away by both Chicago and Arizona because of disruptions when he didn’t get enough carries.
founding member of PACOS (People Against the Constant Overuse of Sarcastic font)
GGN-Moderator
Tomas Jones....
I was glad to see him go, especially when he bitched that he wasn’t getting paid enough money when 2/3 of his contract was given to him in the first 2 years at his own request. The Jets game him most of his money up front, and he produced crap. Then he has one good year, when he isn’t making much, (Because he already got it) and he wants to renegotiate his contract because he doesn’t think he’s being paid enough. Give me an F-ing break!!!! He got a 4 year, 20 million dollar deal, with 13 coming in the first 2 years. Oh, and did i mention, he’s the backup in KC now.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
Jets stepped away from Jones at the right time
He was a decent Jet but as Ive said with LDT, football is a young mans game.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
by YankeesJets on Jan 12, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
Unfortunately...
we were able to run in some games when Schotty just decided to not do it (not by any means saying we still don’t need to fix that one glaring hole in our o-line). The game against the Giants is one of the biggest examples that is mentioned here…we were rushing for over 4 yds per carry and for the most part were controlling the game early but Schotty in all his wisdom decided to have Sanchez drop back 60+ times. You can’t possibly believe that Schotty is not top 2-3 if not the biggest problem we had. Also, while I respect what Thomas Jones did while he was with the team we didn’t lose as much as some give credit for (Jones averaged 3.7 yd per carry while Tomlinson averaged 4.2 after the change)…Jones was not going to remain productive…Tomlinson opened up a new dimension for Sanchez to use in the offense that Jones didn’t really bring…besides we didn’t really need 2 of the same types of players at that position in Jones and Greene (with McKnights development the same may now be true for Tomlinson). Look at Jones’ production since leaving the Jets and you will probably see that he might have been more a product of the system with whatever he had left at that time.
by Mac N Cheese on Jan 12, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
I'll just say I strongly disagree with your perspective
but, as long as you use paragraphs in the future, good posting.
Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
GangGreenNation.com
Three words "play action pass"
Without going too much into your faulty logic about Schottenheimer’s innocence in the offensive mess we had to endure this season I will direct your attention to exhibit A, the play-action pass.
Oh wait that evidence is missing, someone broke into the evidence room and stole one of Mark Sanchez’s best plays because it was nonexistent this year.
Same with the boot-leg pass plays, GD nonexistent.
If you have a QB that’s obviously struggling and you take away the two things he does the best then yes you are a problem and a terrible OC. If you’re relayed to BS somehow, which is the only reason I can see for this post, I’m sorry but Brian is a shitty coach period.
Thanks for the comments!
I counted two people that agreed with me on this. Here are some more points after reading the comments:
1. Schotty was not a perfect coordinator. The point of my post wasn’t to say he was. It was to say that scapegoating him is ignoring the fact that the real problems the Jets have were not of his doing. I also do not know Schotty personally, am not related in anyway, and was not paid to post on his behalf.
2. After reading the responses, a light bulb went on for me: The reason people so vehemently blame Schotty for the Jets failures is because Jets fans really believe we had a superbowl caliber team. Newsflash- we didn’t. With at least a Matt Ryan caliber QB in 2009 we had a shot. With a Stafford/Eli Manning caliber QB maybe in 2010. It would have taken a healthy Peyton Manning in 2011 to do it. Unfortunately, Sanchez couldn’t carry Kyle Orton’s jockstrap right now. Seriously, anyone who believes he would win a serious QB competition between him and Kyle Orton or Jason Campbell right now is delusional.
3. Concerning our drafts the last few years, the 2011 draft may turn out to be good (you can’t truly rate a draft for three years I will admit). For 2009, Slauson is a backup guard who is starting. Shonn Greene is mediocre. Seriously, does anyone really believe offensive coordinators around the league are like “OMG, we absolutely need to make sure Shonn Greene doesn’t beat us?” But, considering where we got those players, they matched up with about their draft position. What made it a bust was Sanchez. We moved up to 5th in the draft to get him when we could have gotten Rex Grossman for free.
4. For the 2010 draft, I stand by my comments even more than I did. Kyle Wilson was a 1st round draft pick. He is a competent nickel corner currently. That does not match up with 1st round talent. Now, in a year or two he may prove me wrong as he has seriously improved. Vladimir Ducasse couldn’t even take a starting job from Slauson or Wayne Hunter. That is truly sad. Joe McKnight may match up to 4th round caliber, but he was supposed to replace Leon Washington and he is not nearly there yet. I like Conner so that was a plus. But overall, that is not a good draft.
5. Finally, what really screwed us was the trading of draft picks for guys that had talent but issues and were becoming free agents. I know they were trying to win now and/or sell PSL’s, but it’s screwing us now.
So, to summarize, Schotty was maybe not the greatest but when you can’t trust your QB and your running game isn’t good enough to cover for him anymore, your options are limited. I have been a Jets fan since 1988 when they beat the Giants and knocked them out of the playoffs. I want them badly to win at least one super bowl in my lifetime. I just truly hope that they can address the real problems behind all the bluster and false bravado.
P.S. If we can somehow draft the next Aaron Rodgers that would be great!
Im glad we got rid of Schotty, as Im anxious to what the new excuses will be
The one thing that bothers me though is all the crap about Schotty throwing too much. Oh, I 100% agree that Schotty should’ve never went away from ground and pound, but what the hell was Rex doing? He is the boss, yet he never did anything to stop Schotty. Were the headsets set up on different frequencies? Schotty had to go but Rex should get more of the blame than he does.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
you're right
but if Schotty was actually good at his job, do you think we’d even need to be talking about this? Heck if he even had an ounce of common sense, we might still be in this thing.
The criticism isn’t that he throws too much, it’s that he throws too much when the run is working.
I agree but what is Rex doing while we are on offense?
I dont expect him to call plays but cmon, Stevie Wonder could see what was going on.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
by YankeesJets on Jan 12, 2012 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
again you're right
no one said Schotty’s the source of all our problems. He’s the source of most of our offensive problems. Yes Sanchez is a problem, but obviously he has regressed from last year and Schotty has done the opposite of helping him out.
All this drama and lack of accountability and FO bungling is on Rex and Tannenbaum and they’ll be the next to come under fire if they don’t bring this thing around.
I can agree here
I hate that Rex not only knows nothing of offense, but admits as much. We have to hire 6 different former head coaches to get one offense humming, it seems a little ridiculous. Is it that F-ing impossible?
by Clarke W. Griswald on Jan 14, 2012 1:19 AM EST up reply actions
I think most young coaches with defensive backgrounds
know very little if anything about their offense. That’s why it’s so important for them to have an experienced OC who shares the same football philosophy as the HC on staff. Cowher didn’t mess with the Steelers O when he first got to Pittsburgh, Tomlin doesn’t either, Spags was pretty clueless regarding Offense as well. I can’t think of any other young defensive minded coaches but I’m sure there are more.
BTW- When I use the word young I mean first time HC’s.
Love with a LEO is like a drug.. One taste and your addicted!
I can't believe I just posted in a defending Schotty thread
I think I’m going to be sick
Love with a LEO is like a drug.. One taste and your addicted!
Glad you bought up the Favre season...
What was the pass attack rated? What was the O rated? Why did we keep having Favre toss 30+ times down the stretch when ww had the top Afc rusher? And Callahan is the reason for the run success. The guy wasnt the only problem this year. This offense was missing pieces but Schotty never had a good O even with the right pieces. THAT’S why he had to go!
Schotty wasn't ideal and I don't have a problem with replacing him but...
He also was in a no win situation. People have been posting saying that maybe our QB can’t really run, and he can’t really throw in the pocket, and he doesn’t have the strongest arm, and he isn’t even that accurate or consistent, but geez if we would have just let him drop back three steps, stare down one person, and just throw the ball that we could win a superbowl. Or let him roll out to his right every time and only throw the ball under 15 yards and only to the guy who happens to be going in the same direction as him, and then everything would be okay. Or, even though teams have zero fear of our passing game and we aren’t good enough anymore to run effectively with 8 men in the box, we shouldn’t get away from that ground and pound that will give us 3rd and 6 every time consistently.
That’s what frustrates me about the Schotty hate. On the one hand, people talk about all of our offensive weaknesses. And then when it gets dumbed down to the point that someone jumps a route for a pick six, then it’s like why didn’t you run it? Again, he was our offensive coordinator on a failed offense. I am perfectly okay with replacing him. But I’m not okay with believing that he was anymore than 10% of the problems with the Jets.
look at the giant game and a few others this year...
The run game was getting 4.5+ in the giant game, we were up int the first half yet he still threw 28 times.
by george JETson on Jan 12, 2012 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
10% are you serious?
When you’re the Offensive Coordinator, you’re in charge of 100% of the Offense. It’s a failed offense that he helped design and was in charge of executing for 5 years.
You want to blame the players? Fine, but we had a top rushing attack bolstered by a top OLine and top Defense. There’s no excuse for only being able to be middle of the pack AT BEST in 1 out of 5 years. And we’ve had many quarterbacks! We’ve had a smart one with a not so great arm, we’ve had a HOF QB, we’ve had a QB for him to personally groom and he’s done absolute squat with it. In fact, he might’ve turned Sanchez into damaged goods! Do you not see the difference between last year’s play and this year’s? It’s atrocious! Discipline issues, route running issues, 12 men on the field…there’s poor execution up and down this offense and that falls on the coaching.
It also doesn’t help when everyone knows you’re going to pass on third down and you don’t call passing plays of more than 5 yards deep.
There are some other factors that seem to get left out
The running game is not as good as the one we had in 09 and 10. Some will say its because Schotty got pass happy, but there were other factors. Factors like a line that wasn’t as good in previous years due to personnel and injuries. Another factor would be the loss of a HOF caliber FB in Richardson.
Now we move on to the passing game, which also wasn’t good in 11. Sanchez for the third consecutive year of his three year career had to start all over with his receivers. In 09 it was JCo/Stuckey with Edwards coming in late, In 10 he had Edwards/Holmes/JCo, and finally this year it was Holmes/Plax/Mason and Kerley after Mason was cut. The lockout may have played a hand in the QB not being on the same page as WRs this year.
Furthermore, how is it known that deep passes were not called? Perhaps Sanchez decided to check down instead of going deep. Schotty was a part of the problem for sure, but 10 – 15 % sounds about right.
Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors.
OK Sanch was the one who checked down
But you still had nothing to say about the bad routes, 12 men on the field, mis-communications, slow starts…
by Clarke W. Griswald on Jan 14, 2012 1:23 AM EST up reply actions
The offense was so bad beyond just one or two players
The entire squad, which is quite talented, looked like trash. Everyone. Just like the Giants in 2009, when they sucked and couldn’t stop anybody, they fired their idiot coordinator and got the players they had to produce. Schott was the problem, but we will see… next season
by Clarke W. Griswald on Jan 14, 2012 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
Joe Namath agrees with me
That probably makes it worse for me LOL but I look at him as that drunken uncle at the family Christmas party that tells too much of the truth about the family and now everyone wants him to shut up. He also commented that Schotty was the fall guy for poor execution. So, make of it what you want, but at least Joe Willy is on my side!
naw, he's not the fall guy
Had we missed the playoffs in 09 and 10 he may have been gone. Look up old archives post here on GGN, youll find fans, and stories wanting him gone every year.
by george JETson on Jan 12, 2012 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
The Giant game was mishandled
I agree with that, hence why I mentioned it in the beginning of my post. But if he’s so bad, why is he being pursued by Alabama (nationa champions 2 out of 3 years), the Falcons (who have a good organization) and the Jags? This means some smart football people from other teams have to agree with me and Joe Willie. If they thought he was as horrible as Jets fans think, they wouldn’t even consider him worthy of scouting for a high school football team.
Alabama is interested in him as OC
you don’t think that’s a step down from being an OC at the NFL level? If those other NFL organizations really wanted him, they could’ve had him. It’s not like we were trying to hold on to him this off-season. More likely it was due diligence.
yes and no
You dont know what they were offerring HIM.that factors in alot when interviewing for a job…Look at fischer Had Miami if He wanted it BUT didnt like the “details”…but I think FO got themselves caught a wee bit in a lie..saying they wanted Schotty back and yet how many days after he said he wasnt coming back did Sprano appear…the problem I have with Sprano is this HAS NEVER BEEN A OC..been a HC and a OL-Coach…so basically with ALL the Coaching changes happening it will take awhile for all too jell!!!!.But we can;t rely on LT we need better RB;s that can block a blitz!!! even LT admitted he missed a few this past season!!!
we dont Need better WR;s we Need 2 TE;s that create headache;s for another teams DEF!!!! and a QB that can hit them with dead-on throws…I just watched the Denver game and they had No answer’s for other teams 2—TE;s!!!!!
Bama is a step down
But not that much. It also remains to be seen whether the Jags or Falcons hire him. My point was that these teams would not even interview him to be the janitor if they even were close to agreeing with Jets fans.
Other Incompetent Coaches
have gotten re-hired too. It’s a fraternity. Friends hire friends. Many GMs, HCs and Owners are afraid of the unknown, so are almost guaranteed to hire someone with experience rather than give someone inexperienced or they don’t really know an opportunity.
Also, he’s not all bad. He has done some creative things and the Jets did make it to the AFC Championship Game 2 years in a row with a young QB. He’s the son of a former HC. Those things will get him interviews, but not jobs. If he gets another job and fails as he did here, he may not get another opportunity unless he starts over as a position coach or goes to the college ranks and has success.
"Reality is purely the perception of the individual mind. It follows, that since no two minds are alike, no two perceptions of reality are alike. It further follows, that what reality is to one, may seem complete madness to someone else."
– Yefim Novikov
I agree. I’d also add the Alabama thing is irrelevant no matter what happens there. College and the NFL are two different games. An awful lot of guys have great success in college and none in the NFL.
Part of me thinks Schotty would be a ton better in the college game where players are less experienced and disciplined and more inclined to blow assignments because of his gimmicky presnap movements and gadget plays. The other part of me thinks he’ll be just as bad because he’ll make things way too complicated for his own inexperienced and less disciplined college players.
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I think his gimmicks will always match up better in school sports
The pros have too much talent and experience to fall for that crap.
Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
GangGreenNation.com
“College and the NFL are two different games. An awful lot of guys have great success in college and none in the NFL.”
For example…Steve Spurrier who is 12-20 as an NFL coach but 197–75–2 in NCAA. He was horrible as an NFL coach!
by Mac N Cheese on Jan 14, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
Schotty will get a fresh start somewhere else
So the two questions then are:
1. Does Schotty do better somewhere else with a different team? College or Pros…
2. Does Sparano make a difference with Sanchez?
If the NFL this year has proven one thing (in the playoffs and regular season) it’s that, without at least a good QB (Alex Smith isn’t elite but did play well in the regular season and also against the Saints) it’s that without a good or better QB you have absolutely no chance. When Sparano said “I’m going back to square one” with Sanchez, that is a problem. Whether you think Schotty is good or not, if Sanchez can’t figure out how to be a good QB on his own, we have a serious problem. I’m afraid Sparano will get Sanchez to take 3 steps back and throw to one guy and think he accomplished something. Newsflash- that won’t get us to the super bowl victory we’ve been seeking since 1969.
Sigh...
I’ve used IT analogy before now I’m going to try cars. You are a mechanic (Sparano) and you suddenly have to start working on a car (Offense) that was brought in for some work. The original mechanic (Schotty) has worked on it for 3 weeks (3 years) with less than favorable results. Suddenly the original mechanic is fired/quits and you as the new mechanic are handed the responsibility of fixing this car. The old mechanic left little or no information (and was not a very good mechanic to begin with, at the very least not with this make/model). Now like anybody else you the new mechanic can see there is a check engine light (Sanchez’s shortcomings/mistakes)…Do you immediately jump the a conclusion on what is wrong with the engine or do you read the codes and fix whatever you see with those codes?
My point is that as a guy that has fixing things for the past almost 18 years you always start at “square one” when you are dealing with a new piece of equipment. As strange as it may seem to compare a person to machines it is a tried and true method to start at a beginning point (aka square one) when trying to figure out/fix a problem. Sparano doesn’t know exactly what bad habits Sanchez has picked up just yet (he may know some but not all). He is doing the right thing and going to make sure he has the proper fundamentals. Sure square one is an indication of a problem but the problems are not always big and they don’t always take a long time to fix or mean you take Sanchez back to pop warner…or for my car analogy a bad/malfunctioning O2 sensor does not equate to an engine overhaul.
by Mac N Cheese on Jan 15, 2012 3:02 AM EST up reply actions
if Sanchez can’t figure out how to be a good QB on his own, we have a serious problem
You act like the entire coaching staff is just a cheerleading squad. Why don’t we just have the players coach themselves then?
Every sport has a teachers/coaches/mentors that have the experience and provide a different perspective, an extra set of eyes to aid in a development of a player throughout their entire career. Of course, what’s required is that the player is willing and has the work ethic to follow through and that by and large hasn’t been a problem with Sanchez.
Rex today said the verbiage was too much for Sanchez
Okay, before I say what I’m going to say, let’s acknowledge again that Schotty wasn’t perfect. The subject has been beaten to death so much I won’t even go into why at this point. Having said that, was he seriously intimating that the “verbiage” is the reason Sanchez was inaccurate, skittish, turnover-prone, couldn’t read a defense, couldn’t see wide open receivers, etc…? I sincerely hope Matt Cavanaugh and Tony Sparano can either fix Sanchez or put someone in there that can do the job. I just wish people would stop the scapegoating. Seriously, if he had a problem with the verbiage, he should have told him to change it! He’s the head coach come on!
P.S. I thought Ryan today was somewhat more honest about some of the things that went wrong but still has a long way to go. There are deeper problems with his approach than he has admitted. Giving millions of guaranteed $ to players with severe character issues is a recipe for disaster, and he needs to acknowledge that he can’t change everyone and it’s time to put a stop to the cancers on the Jets.
To be fair, Ryan said he couldn't be more involved in the offense because he himself didn't understand the verbiage
And you can’t just change the verbiage because it is those terms strung together that make a play call in the huddle
by CervezaVerde on Jan 20, 2012 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe but
If he supposedly recognized that the system was that flawed and did nothing to change it that’s on him. I just personally don’t think it had anything to do with it. I think Schotty definitely made mistakes but the real problems were much larger than him. Sanchez is mentally weak because he’s too much of a people pleaser and has never been through adversity. If you look up his resume in high school and college, he’s only ever been on winning teams. His high school team was 27-1 when he was there. And USC plays mostly a bunch of inferior opponents, so everything was easy. Hopefully for us and him he’ll figure it out before it’s too late. If we cut him he’s done.
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