Does the Jets' management truly value the offensive line?

by Rushthepasser on Sep 21, 2011 1:06 AM EDT

It seems to me like once the Jets get one or two good offensive lineman that they're content to fill the rest of the starting lineup with fringe players barely worth a backup position. Just because they threw a bunch of money at Nick Mangold and D'Brickashaw Ferguson, that does not excuse the team from failing to find dependable players to fill the other positions of the line. With how important the quarterback position is to the team, why take the chance of an inferior lineman getting Mark Sanchez hurt? Not to mention, where is the depth this season? Nick Mangold, an all-pro center, is being replaced by a guy with zero starts? Wayne Hunter looks absolutely terrible and his backup Vladimir Ducasse looks even worse. Sadly, these are just the latest examples of a disturbing trend for the Jets that extends back several seasons. Let's take a look back, and I'll show you what I mean.

2003:After finishing 9-7 in 2002, the Jets lost RG Randy Thomas in free agency to the Redskins. He was replaced by Brent Smith who made the switch to guard after playing tackle for the Dolphins. In the 2003 preseason, Smith whiffed on the block that directly led to Chad Pennington dislocating his left (non-throwing) wrist and missing nearly half of the season. The end result: a 6-10 finish.

2005:The Jets offensive line was in a state of flux in 2005. Gone was RT Kareem Mackenzie, replaced by the Jets declining former LT Jason Fabini, who was replaced at LT by Adrian Jones. The Jets season essentially ended in Week 3, when porous blocking led to Chad Pennington and 2nd-string QB Jay Fiedler both being lost for the season with rotator cuff injuries within minutes of each other, leaving Brooks Bollinger as the team's top quarterback. The team finished the season at 4-12.

2007:For a season, it actually appeared that the Jets learned their lesson about the offensive line as they drafted both D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Nick Mangold in the 1st round of the 2006 draft (picks number 4 and 29 respectively). Things quickly fell apart for the Jets when starting LG Pete Kendall got into a nasty contract dispute with the Jets and was soon traded to the Redskins, leaving journeyman Adrien Clarke to take his place. Clarke missed blocks that directly resulted with injuries to Chad Pennington (ankle) and later in the season, Kellen Clemens (ribs), causing them both to miss some time.

The teams that I used for examples certainly had flaws other than the offensive line, but none of those flaws resulted in an injury to the quarterback, arguably the most important player on the team. Look at the Colts this year. If it had been anyone on the team other than Peyton Manning who missed time, they'd be ok. They could survive losing Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, or Dwight Freeney and still be a good team. But losing Peyton? They'll be lucky to finish .500 this year. There's just not enough good quarterbacks out there, and most teams can't afford to lose the ones they already have.

Fast-forward to the present. The Jets released Damien Woody and replaced him with Wayne Hunter. Hunter's been around since the 2003 season, but has only started a handful of games over his career, all of them while he's been a Jet. So basically, the Jets handed the starting RT job to an unproven career journeyman. If Hunter was any good at all, why did it take him 8 seasons to land a starting job (he was drafted in 2003)? What was once arguably the premier offensive line in the NFL now has a gaping hole on the right side and Sanchez is starting to take a beating. With Mangold hurt, that hole on the right side seems a lot bigger than before.

I know the Jets are 2-0 and it seems too early to hit the panic button, but those wins are going to be meaningless if the Jets can't protect Sanchez and he gets hurt. With the protection as bad as it is, I don't see him lasting the season. Mark may not be the best player on the team, but he is the only one who is irreplacable, at least for this season. If he goes down, the Jets season is over. Hopefully, management learns from their past mistakes and they sign a quality lineman or two. They wouldn't need to be pro bowlers, just dependable and that would certainly be better than what they have now.

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Pennington's bones were made of glass

I’m not sure I blame the line for any of that. I think your post just shows how hard it is to put together a good line. The Jets value O line but you can’t pay each position $10 mill. And the line had some depth but there were injuries. We will be starting our 3rd string center. Yeah, he doesn’t have any experience… he’s 3rd string.

by CervezaVerde on Sep 21, 2011 1:28 AM EDT reply actions

I agree with you, especially where the salary cap is concerned, but

the point I’m trying to make, especially in Wayne Hunter’s case, is that he’s the best answer the Jets can come up with to replace Damien Woody, a guy who bounced around the league for several seasons and couldn’t crack a starting lineup? I know it’s not always possible to replace a player at any given position with a guy that’s just as good or even better, but at least find a servicable replacement who won’t get your quarterback killed.

by Rushthepasser on Sep 21, 2011 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions

C'mon

Pennington’s bones may have been brittle, but that’s all the more reason that they should have protected him with a better OL. To pass it off as being Chad’s fault, is a bunch of crap and you know it. I’m not saying that it’s easy to put together an OL, but you mean to tell me that the best they could find was Adrien Clarke and the other stiffs they’ve tried to put on the OL? You know better than that. They either didn’t really try or have a problem with evaluating OL talent. Mangold and Ferguson were labeled as first rounders and very, very solid prospects. It’s hard to miss on those types. It’s harder to find good ones in the middle and lower rounds. Some teams do better at this than others.

OLs have evolved. Traditionally, they have been populated more by mid and lower round draft picks, but with NFL offenses begin geared more to the passing game and QBs making so much money, teams begin to use higher and higher picks on the OL more consistently. That doesn’t mean that one has to have 5 first rounders on the OL. Few teams could afford that, or even if they could, much of their cap would be tied up there, and there wouldn’t be much left to use on skill position players. Good OL can be found throughout the draft and as UFAs. The Jets manage to find UFAs at other positions almost routinely. Why haven’t they found more OL? I think it’s a very fair question to ask of Jets management.

Tanny has done better than any other Jets GM, but he has his problems. Until this year, he had ignored the DL. Until he took Mangold and Ferguson, he had ignored the OL. He has basically ignored the OLB position, the S position and until this year with a low and mid-rounder, he has ignored the WR position as of late.

"Reality is purely the perception of the individual mind. It follows, that since no two minds are alike, no two perceptions of reality are alike. It further follows, that what reality is to one, may seem complete madness to someone else."

– Yefim Novikov

by joeklecko on Sep 22, 2011 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Its not even that hard to go out and get a veteran starter..

Add O’Hara and Stinchcomb and your looking at two decent starters…look I know they are old and coming off injury but even if they are not 100% the are going to be much much better then Baxter and Hunter…Why haven’t we at least brought them in for a look? (There are also many other vets out there those would just be my picks)

by RhodesRocks on Sep 22, 2011 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions

C'mon?

This article talks about the Jets Oline issues then goes on a tear about Pennington’s injuries. Uh, it was the Oline. A quota attributed to Kevin Mawae, “He’s made of eggshells.” Don’t come here and tell me Pennington wasn’t injury prone. It lacks truthiness.

by CervezaVerde on Sep 22, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions

I'd also add that those OLine were good enough to get Curtis Martin in the record books

by CervezaVerde on Sep 22, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions

His stats for 2003 and 2005 CLEARLY show how bad the line was

during those 2 seasons. In 2003, he had a career-low 2 rushing touchdowns, and in 2005, he had career-lows in total yards (735) and yards-per-carry average (3.3).

by Rushthepasser on Sep 22, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, I'm not gonna argue those lines were great but

In 2003, Lamont Jordon had 4 TDs as well. The line gave up 31 sacks which isn’t absolutely horrible. In 2005, Brooks Bollinger was the QB and Martin’s knees were absolutely shot. No line could help them.

by CervezaVerde on Sep 22, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree 100%, Pennington was injury-prone

and that’s all the more reason why the Jets FO should have put a better line in front of him. By the Jets going with Adrian Jones at LT in ‘05 and Adrien Clarke at LG in ’07, the Jets were set up to fail before they took their first snap. I find it very hard to believe that there wasn’t a better option via free agency or a trade that would have done a better job of keeping Pennington healthy.

Every lineman, even the all-pros, are going to get beaten and miss a block sooner or later, so even with an all-star lineup in front of him, there’s a good chance that with his injury history, Pennington would have landed on IR anyway. However, by going with fringe talents to block the quarterback, THE most important player on your team, you are virtually guaranteeing he’s going to take more punishment than normal, and with a player like Chad, they simply couldn’t afford to do that. Some of those lines that blocked for him would have landed Brett Favre in his prime on IR.

Which brings me back to Wayne Hunter. He was drafted in 2003 and didn’t start his first game until 2009. It took him until he was on his 3rd team and his 7th year in the league to see any serious game time. He wasn’t named a full-time starter until this season. There’s a reason for that. The man isn’t starting material. He can’t run block and he’s an absolute liability in the passing game. And this is the man that the Jets FO thought was the best possible option at RT, a man who’s averaged less than 1 start per season for a 9-year career. You could make an argument that the Jets made nearly as bad of a move with Slauson when he took over for Faneca, but there’s two big differences:

(1) Slauson, while not as good as Faneca, is actually a capable player.

(2) Slauson is young and improving. Hunter’s potential is maxed out and he’s only going to get worse.

If the Jets are trying to win a Superbowl, why take a chance with a fringe player on your o-line and risk the quarterback’s health? They took an awful big chance with Hunter after seeing him look good in only a handful of games. He looks so bad, I’ll bet if Vernon Gholston lined up against him, he’d notch his first sack! The only thing Hunter’s good for is getting the Jets a higher pick in next year’s draft!

And Colin Baxter? Granted, nobody expected Turner to go down, but after seeing they have a weakness when he did, they should have tried to sign a veteran free agent instead of an untested rookie. The worst-case scenario happened and now Baxter has to start. Now the Jets start talking about signing a veteran, but only if Baxter struggles. By then it could be too late. A loss wouldn’t necessarily mean the season’s over, but losing Sanchez to injury would. For a team trying like hell to get to a Superbowl, that’s a pretty big chance to take.

by Rushthepasser on Sep 22, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Penny's last injury happened on a basketball court. No line involved.

Just tell me who is out there that is so good? O’Hara? Mawae? If these guys were so good, I would think they would be on a team. The Jets FO and coaches thought Hunter was good enough. Its been two games, both wins by the way. I can wait and see personally.

by CervezaVerde on Sep 22, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions

I'd take O'Hara in a heartbeat.

He may be past his prime, but I’d rather take an experienced veteran who’s been in the trenches and knows what to expect than a rookie who doesn’t know the ins-and-outs and gets my quarterback killed.

As far as why some of the older lineman haven’t signed with another team, I think it comes down to money. Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t this league have a veteran minimum salary? That would mean a guy like O’Hara would make a lot more than an undrafted rookie or even a player that gets promoted from the practice squad. With the millions of dollars this team has invested in Sanchez, not to mention they have cap room, I think it’s foolish to take the “wait and see” approach. More hits to the quarterback means a greater chance of injury.

And I really don’t care how many games they’ve already won, I care about how many they can win without Sanchez. You asked me who was out there that can play the o-line? Well, let me ask you who’s out there that can play QB?

by Rushthepasser on Sep 22, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, Brett Farve of course

by CervezaVerde on Sep 22, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions

On second thought, I am not even gonna wait for someone to take that comment seriously

It was a joke (sort of)

by CervezaVerde on Sep 22, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions

RIF?

I didn’t say that Pennington wasn’t injury prone. I said that the real problem was with the OL. Chad certainly held up in Miami didn’t he? AFAIK, Adrien Clarke never even got another tryout with another NFL team. He sucks. Many of the OL that Bradway drafted sucked (all?).

Pass blocking and run blocking are two different skills. How many runs for losses did Curtis have? A ton, and a lot of other runs for no gain and 1 yard gains. He broke enough 20 yard runs to help his average. He would have had a lot more yardage and been more consistent if the team had had a better OL.

– Yefim Novikov

by joeklecko on Sep 23, 2011 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions

I disagree with everything you said

No, Chad didn’t hold up in Miami. He blew out his shoulder and then he blew out his knee. He is injury prone. That is all.

And Curtis rarely had negative yards. He just about always got 3 yards. No more no less. And if Curtis martin “broke one” it was for 10 yards.

by CervezaVerde on Sep 23, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Dude, You Are Flat Out Wrong

Curtis had a LOT of runs where he was tackled for losses and no gains. Go and look it up. He lined up 8 yards deep and wasn’t the fastest guy. The Jets’ OL often didn’t open any holes.

Yes, Chad eventually broke down, but did he not have one very good year in Miami away from the Jets’ OL? Look it up.

– Yefim Novikov

by joeklecko on Sep 23, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions

Nope, I'm right

Pennington only played two full seasons. One with the Jets and one with Miami. His bones were made of glass. You are the only person that believes otherwise. It had nothing or little to do with the line protecting him. “Eventually broke down”… Nope, wrong. With Miami, 2008 16 games, 2009 3 games, 2010 1 game. Nothing eventual about it. You just wrong here.

Curtis Martin was known for getting positive yards. Never flashy, not prone to breaking off a 50 yarder, his money was always gaining a yard when nothing else was available. Nothing to look up. Again, you are wrong here.

by CervezaVerde on Sep 23, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Nope, Kevin Bacon wasn't in Footloose

Pennington was comeback player of the year one of those years. I agree he’s a glass player, but he’s not without accomplishment, contrary to your perception.

Just like everyone else, Martin was not immune to being tackled for a loss.

Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
Archduke of PACOS.
GangGreenNation.com

by Bro Namath on Sep 23, 2011 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions

I never said Penny was w/o accomplishments

And I never said Martin was immune

by CervezaVerde on Sep 23, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Bones made of glass or not

he held up remarkably well under Miamis center until he re-tore his cuff the next year.

And Martin was tackled behind the line plenty of times.

Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
Archduke of PACOS.
GangGreenNation.com

by Bro Namath on Sep 23, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions

I think the topic has spun far from the point

by CervezaVerde on Sep 23, 2011 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Whatever

Obviously, we’re just gonna have to agree to disagree.

But for the record, once again, I’m NOT saying that Pennington wasn’t fragile. IMO you’re totally blaming him and giving the OL a pass, and making it sound like he wasn’t a good player when protected, and that simply isn’t true. In 2008 in Miami, he played the entire season, finishing 2nd in the MVP voting, and had 19 TDs, 7 interceptions, a career high in yardage at 3,653 yards, and had a 97.4 QB rating. Miami obviously was able to protect him well enough.

I don’t know how old you are, but I saw EVERY game of the CuMar era and he averaged at least 4-5 runs a game for no gain or a loss of 1 to 3 yards. I KNOW what I’m talking about. That OL was greatly overrated. That speaks to the point of this discussion thread.

For most of the Jets’ history their OL has been subpar, either because they ignored the OL or the players they drafte were stiffs, or both.

– Yefim Novikov

by joeklecko on Sep 24, 2011 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Agreed to disagree

I only took exception with two things…

they should have protected him with a better OL. To pass it off as being Chad’s fault, is a bunch of crap and you know it.

Penny was injury prone; that’s not crap. I don’t blame the oline for it. I’ve made no statements that Penny wasn’t a decent player when healthy. But he was rarely healthy and only started 16 games twice in his career. His injuries can’t be attributed to an oline though. Penny was never sacked more than 30 times in a season. That, along with Curtis Martin’s rushing, I think was a sign that the olines were alright for the most part. 2005 was bad though.

How many runs for losses did Curtis have? A ton, and a lot of other runs for no gain and 1 yard gains. He broke enough 20 yard runs to help his average.

I disagree here. It sounds like you are explaining Barry Sanders. Curtis was, I say, known for getting positive yards when nothing was there. He always ran forward and always fell down forward. Of course, every running back gets tackled for loss or one yard gains sometimes. But I disagreed with “a ton” because thats not what Curtis was about. And yes, I saw every game Curtis played with the Jets. He was remarkably consistent at making sure he got some positive yards but was never flashy.

by CervezaVerde on Sep 24, 2011 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions

Obviously < blockquote > is not my friend

by CervezaVerde on Sep 24, 2011 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions

It should have looked like this...

I only took exception with two things…

they should have protected him with a better OL. To pass it off as being Chad’s fault, is a bunch of crap and you know it.

Penny was injury prone; that’s not crap. I don’t blame the oline for it. I’ve made no statements that Penny wasn’t a decent player when healthy. But he was rarely healthy and only started 16 games twice in his career. His injuries can’t be attributed to an oline though. Penny was never sacked more than 30 times in a season. That, along with Curtis Martin’s rushing, I think was a sign that the olines were alright for the most part. 2005 was bad though.

How many runs for losses did Curtis have? A ton, and a lot of other runs for no gain and 1 yard gains. He broke enough 20 yard runs to help his average.

I disagree here. It sounds like you are explaining Barry Sanders. Curtis was, I say, known for getting positive yards when nothing was there. He always ran forward and always fell down forward. Of course, every running back gets tackled for loss or one yard gains sometimes. But I disagreed with “a ton” because thats not what Curtis was about. And yes, I saw every game Curtis played with the Jets. He was remarkably consistent at making sure he got some positive yards but was never flashy.

by CervezaVerde on Sep 24, 2011 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions

So basically, what you're saying is

that you’d be OK if the Jets kept Adrien Clarke and didn’t sign Alan Faneca, because you don’t hold lineman accountable for poor blocking that results in reduced YPC average and injuries to the QB? WOW.

What does a good o-lineman do? He opens up holes in the running game and keeps the hits on the QB to a minimum. That’s why Faneca was signed, because he was infinitely better than Clarke at both of those things. He’s an example of the Jets FO making a great decision concerning the o-line personnel. They took an area of obvious weakness and strengthened it significantly.

The whole point of my post is they don’t always make a smart decision concerning the offensive line. Whenever it seems like they’re going in the right direction with their line, they often (but not always) take a huge step back by replacing a decent player with someone who’s not only not as good, but flat out BAD. Clarke, Adrian Jones, Brent Smith, and so far Wayne Hunter were all lousy, and as a result, QBs took more punishment and YPC averages were down. During the seasons that Chad missed games, the line play was bad. Granted, in 2004 Chad got hurt too, but he toughed out the season and the Jets still made it into the divisional round of the playoffs. Why? Not only because of good defense, but a potent rushing attack. Curtis Martin led the league in rushing (1697 yards) and averaged a career-high 4.6 YPC. You don’t put up those numbers runnning behind a bad line.

Sometimes, all it really takes is one weak link to make the whole line look bad. Sure the Jets have 2 pro bowlers in Mangold and Ferguson, but those guys can’t play every spot on the line. And I know how hard it can be to put together a good line. That said, how hard can it be to find a better replacement than Wayne Hunter?

by Rushthepasser on Sep 24, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions

The only thing I said was I don't hold the line accountable for Penny's injuries

by CervezaVerde on Sep 24, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Fair Enough

Your first post was fine. It was clear.

As for the content, we are in agreement that Penny was injury prone. If I misunderstood and mischaracterised your intent with regard to what type of player he was when healthy, then I apologize, but it did seem to me that you were giving the OL a pass and putting all the blame on Penny. IMO, you can’t say that his injuries can’t be attributed to the OL, however. No, they aren’t solely the fault or maybe even majorly the fault of the OL, but the OL must share at least some of the blame. After all, if he was never sacked or hit when passing, he never would have gotten injured (torn rotator cuffs) in the first place, now would he?

Maybe a “ton” is an overstatement, but I think averaging that many runs a game for no gain or loss is big, especially when coupled with the fact that Curtis seemed to go down if anyone even looked at him sternly, and took a lot of carries to get his yardage. I don’t recall his ever breaking a tackle or putting his shoulder down and trying to run through someone. Also, he ran out of bounds far too often for my tastes, and left a lot of yards on the field. He was a very, very good player and great citizen, but imo was overrated, and occupied far too much of the Jets’ offensive philosophy for too long and too much of the team’s salary cap. He wasn’t “great” at anything, nor was he below average in anything, unless it was the ability to break tackles and gain extra yardage. He was consistent, was fortunate to stay healthy for as long as he did (I will noted that he earned and deserved a lot of that luck with his hard training each offseason). I have mixed feelings as to whether he deserves to be in the HOF. He wasn’t dominant. I think he only led the AFC or NFL in rushing one time. He didn’t fumble (except in big games – Denver 1998 playoffs, and the one that got Vinny injured in 1999).

At any point, I hope there are no hard feelings. It was never personal for me. I think we can be passionate, even strongly disagree, but that doesn’t mean there is anything personal or a lack of respect (at least on my part).

Thanks for the discussion and for challenging me.

– Yefim Novikov

by joeklecko on Sep 25, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Who was our second our second string Center ?

by viguy007 on Sep 21, 2011 4:27 AM EDT reply actions

Turner

by CervezaVerde on Sep 21, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions

O Line

Why not sign former Giant, Rich Seubert?

by DARI on Sep 21, 2011 6:44 AM EDT reply actions

Is there any quality depth out there ?

The Cowboys start LG Bill Nagy a 2011 seventh round pick, Phil Costa is an UNDFA from 2010 at center, Kosier at RG and Free at LT are journeymen, and Tyron Smith ( afirst Rounder) is a rookie RT. Romo has a busted rib and a punctured lung. The Steelers look like they are going to give up 50 sacks this year, it doesn’t look like Big Ben will make it through the season. The point here is that other teams have Offensive Line issues, and that there are not quality veteran offensive lineman out there.
I thought O Hara was a logical choice but he is injured, didn’t have a training camp, and he is 34, thirty one teams have passed on the guy, maybe not a great alternative.
This post demonstates that Offensive Line breakdowns and kill your season, but the decisions on the make up in the line are made in April. The Jets decided in April on Hunter Ducasse and Turner. The Turner injury was devastating, the guy played 4 OL positions and was great special teams contributor. Everyone loves Ducasse’s physical tools, but this small college tackles development was hurt by the lockout, he just not ready, the Jets have miscalculated. It’s early on Hunter but it doesn’t look good, I cannot understand why Schotty doesn’t have a TE next to Wayne on every play, IMO it’s necessary if you are going to keep Sanchez healthy.
If you go back to April the Offensive Line decisions seemed to be okay, they haven’t worked out. The alternatives in September just don’t look that good

by JetOrange on Sep 21, 2011 7:10 AM EDT reply actions

Nonsense

This FO drafted Mangold and Brick and signed Woody and Faneca, and thereby assembled the best O-line in football at the time. Hunter wasn’t exactly an unknown, he was the guy we took into the playoffs last year that held his own against the likes of Mathis and Woodley.

Things didn’t exactly go as planned, but unfortunately injuries are part of the game and you can’t plan for every contingency. Hunter is clearly not playing at the level anybody expected based on what we saw late last season, Turner went down for the season, and now Mangold is nicked up.

You can’t have a pro-bowler at every position and all throughout the bench too. We’re still very good to elite and almost all the skill positions. We just have to tweak things a little bit: speed up the timing on pass plays, move the pocket, run more screens and draws…

The OL decisions have worked out fine, we’re 2-0 for God’s sake!!! What hasn’t worked out?

by Crackback on Sep 21, 2011 7:35 AM EDT reply actions

Actually Hunter played very little

in the game against the Colts-Woody came back for that game and played all but the final drive I think. The issue with Hunter is that even last year he wasn’t very good. He had maybe 2 good games. Maybe 3. he had as many horrible games. And he looks horrible now.

I agree, that there is not much to be done, and hopefully playcalling and Hunter’s play will adapt.

by Buzzy on Sep 21, 2011 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions

We may be 2-0, but

this team will only go as far as Mark Sanchez can take them, and if he gets hurt because one of his lineman isn’t doing his job, how many more games do you think they’ll win?

And yes, the FO has done some good things in the draft and free agency to address the line, but they’ve also made some questionable decisions that have resulted in some of their previous quarterbacks getting injured. It seems like the FO gets somewhat complacent once they get one or two pro bowlers on the line and they think they can plug in just about anybody and they’ll be ok. Well, obviously that’s not the case and Wayne Hunter proves the point that I’m trying to make. The FO handed him the starting RT job based on 2 or 3 decent games late last season and completely ignored his previous 8 seasons of mediocrity.

Hopefully, history doesn’t repeat itself and Sanchez won’t miss any time at all, but I just don’t see that happening if he continues to take a beating.

by Rushthepasser on Sep 21, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions

Most Offensive lines don't have more than one pro bowler

The Jets have two and Brandon Moore is close to being the 3rd. I don’t see how that translates into the front office not caring about the offensive line.

"I just build our guys up. If it's trash talking that I believe in our football team, then, yes, I agree with that statement. I'm the biggest trash talker there is." Rex Ryan

by OldJetsFanatic on Sep 21, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Wow, I pretty much said the same thing in two posts and in a few hundred more words.

Succinct I am not.

by Evan_S on Sep 21, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions

LOL, it's a gift

I hadn’t scrolled down and didn’t see your posts when I wrote that but it’s good to know I’m not the only one that feels that way.

"I just build our guys up. If it's trash talking that I believe in our football team, then, yes, I agree with that statement. I'm the biggest trash talker there is." Rex Ryan

by OldJetsFanatic on Sep 21, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Supposedly the less words you use to clearly express yourself, the better communicator you are.

Clearly I am not one of these mythical good communicators.

Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
Archduke of PACOS.
GangGreenNation.com

by Bro Namath on Sep 21, 2011 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions

You have to consider that we now have a different front office. Mangini and Tanny built that wall up front. It has to be a philosophy of Eric’s because he went O-line in the first round when he got to Cleveland. And it’s a smart way to build a team.

Rex has had more success here, but he’d trade every starter on offense for another elite corner. The guy just has different priorities.

Tell you what, if Gholston turned into the player he was expected to be, Rex would probably still be a coordinator in Baltimore.

by nationalist88 on Sep 21, 2011 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Thats it...

The hell with everything, fuhhgettabout the O Line, Shotty has already abandoned the run game so why should we have Sanchez get pummeled taking snaps under center? i say lets throw a dam monkey wrench in our system and put The Sanchize in shotgun form the entire game…it works for Rodgers and Manning and i even think Brady takes about 90% of his snaps out of the gun….sink or swim time, lets put the weight on Sanchez and see if he can shoulder the load.

"The message to the rest of the league is, hey, the Jets are coming, and we're going to give you everything we got. And I think that's going to be more than you can handle"

by AFCxxBEAST on Sep 21, 2011 7:45 AM EDT reply actions

95% of Bradys passes are 7 yards or less, his WRs are the guys that get him all his ridiculous passing numbers, i would like to see Sanchez do his best Brady impersonation, just hike and throw all in one motion usually under 2 seconds 7 yards deep and have Holmes take off for 50 more just like Welker does, thats what needs to happen.

"The message to the rest of the league is, hey, the Jets are coming, and we're going to give you everything we got. And I think that's going to be more than you can handle"

by AFCxxBEAST on Sep 21, 2011 7:56 AM EDT reply actions

They treat the offensive line like the safety position.

they don’t want to put up the money, look at the rookies they signed to backup. However there is a major difference between not paying for safeties which aren’t that important on our D and not paying for the guys who protect the future of the jets.

These 3 recievers are going to be useless if sanchez cannot get up after a while.

by Furious Five on Sep 21, 2011 8:00 AM EDT reply actions

Solid research!

Valid point—but maybe it’s more the way things fall when dealing with keeping a 5-starter unit together over the years. Not long ago we were boasting we had the best line in football. Now it’s a concern. Need to step it up there—either within or without.

by Timxing on Sep 21, 2011 8:07 AM EDT reply actions

Waiting for Nick!

We still have four outstanding linemen once Nick gets back!

by Timxing on Sep 21, 2011 8:12 AM EDT reply actions

I'm sorry, but I think people are overreacting to two bad weeks of Wayne Hunter.

Mangold is the best center in football, Brick is one of the best left tackles in football, both have been healthy their whole careers and Mangold’s backup, Turner, is hurt as well. Brandon Moore is a very solid player, and Slauson, seemed to me at least, get better and better as last season went on. That’s two star linemen, two good linemen. Wayne Hunter, while not great last season was at least passable and they drafted Ducasse a year ago in the second round hoping he would develop. Last I checked the off season was very short this year due to the lockout so the Jets had little time to properly evaluate Ducasse’s progress and establish solid depth at the position.

Hunter has been bad, Ducasse is apparently worse, instead of just complaining that they suck and did a poor job of creating a deep offensive line, tell us what they should have done instead. Who should have they signed this off season to replace Hunter/Ducasse? Did they have the proper time to evaluate these two fully in the shortened training camp? Perhaps this is a result of bad circumstances.

I honestly didn’t read a lot about the Jets this off season other than the draft and free agent signings, was this something most Jets fans here, and in general were worried about back in June? I don’t recall any articles worrying about offensive line depth, it was more concerned with our ability to pass rush. If this is a recent development, you can’t really blame the Jets. If this was a worry being talking about back in April and May, then fine, what you’re saying is true, if not, then this just falls into the category of “hindsight is 20/20.” If there were articles about this prior to the start of training camp, I’d appreciate someone linking them for me.

by Evan_S on Sep 21, 2011 12:37 PM EDT reply actions

Just to make another point

John B praised 3 of the 5 starters as top tier at their position, 1 as a solid starter, and 1 as a marginal starter. Obviously, you’d like to have zero marginal players, but 3 stars, one young solid player and a marginal talent with a young, perceived high upside player waiting in the wings is something a lot of teams would sign up for. And yes, I understand those rankings are one man’s opinions, but with four returning starters from an O-line that still has some youth and was highly ranked against the pass rush (and overall) last season by a number of sites was not expected to struggle especially with the lockout cutting evaluation and free agent signing time.

by Evan_S on Sep 21, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Out of all the football games I've watched this season so far...

Wayne Hunter has been consistently the worst lineman. He looks like he has no clue what he is doing out there, hes getting turned around backwards, not even getting a finger tip on pass rushers, and sometimes just doing anything he can to try and fall in the way of the guy to maybe block him a little bit. If Hunter was playing decently 90% of plays and just giving up the occasional QB hit/sack I really wouldn’t have a problem with it, but this isn’t the case. He’s bad watch the games again…I’ve watched them both at least twice and tried to figure out why Hunter plays so poorly..and I don’t know he just looks lost. I mean we all know he doesn’t have the physical tools to be a great player hes not as strong as woody and that’s why hes not a very good run blocker…he just can’t get that pop. That’s fine and something we have to live with but he suppose to be a decent pass blocker and able to at least be quick to make up for his lack of strength. He does not so we have a RT who can’t pass block or run block effectively. As far as players they should have signed or should sign why not Stinchcomb. Stinchcomb is only 2 years removed from his probowl form and being one of the best blockers in the league for the Saints Superbowl win, he played through an injury last year and wasn’t probowl quality, but he did start every game and looked a hell of a lot better then hunter.

by RhodesRocks on Sep 22, 2011 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions

Geez.

What an unpleasant trip down memory lane that was.

My memory repressed the existence of Brook Bollinger.

I loved Chad Pennington, but his delicate bones caused ME intense pain. I think you’re partially correct about the past O-lines, but part of me wonders if Pennington would have also hurt himself playing for Dallas in the mid 90s.

by Gideon Jay on Sep 21, 2011 1:02 PM EDT reply actions

At this point, I think he tears a rotator cuff

by just tying his shoes

by Rushthepasser on Sep 21, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions

That's the problem

after it tore the first time, he was never the same ever again.

Sometimes you have a very talented NFL caliber player who just isn’t built for the physically grueling job of pro football. Thomas Davis of Carolina and Pennington are perfect examples.

Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
Archduke of PACOS.
GangGreenNation.com

by Bro Namath on Sep 21, 2011 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions

jets working out o'hara

ESPN New York expects the Jets to reach out to free agent C Shaun O’Hara if rookie C Colin Baxter falters in place of Nick Mangold (ankle) in Oakland this Sunday.
The Jets will be facing two of the league’s best nose tackles in Baltimore’s Haloti Ngata and New England’s Vince Wilfork in weeks four and five, so upgrading Baxter will be a must if he bombs in Oakland and Mangold proves to be slow healing. The Dolphins are the only team known to have worked out O’Hara since he was released by the Giants.

Source: ESPN New York

by RichTodd on Sep 21, 2011 1:07 PM EDT reply actions

I didn't even know O'Hara was healthy

Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
Archduke of PACOS.
GangGreenNation.com

by Bro Namath on Sep 21, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah hes good to go now...

They said hes fully recovered but we will have to see..This is kinda good but kinda bad, I wish they just brought him in now. I mean why not give him two weeks in the system and even if you want to start the rookie this week in Oakland, keep him around for depth. Its not like a extra center would be a bad thing to have at this point. If the rookie looks terrible in Oakland we are now stuck with him all game and god forbid he gets injured…we are going to trot the long snapper out there?

by RhodesRocks on Sep 22, 2011 3:23 AM EDT up reply actions

I Guess

they like Baxter’s potential long term, and think they’d have to waive him or someone else to sign O’Hara and don’t want to lose anyone. While I can understand that thinking, and in fact, basically like the idea of keeping young players with potential over older players who are on the downsides of their careers, I don’t like it in this situation, and maybe not even with OL. After all there’s something to be said for experienced veterans. They’ve proven they belong in the NFL. Their technique is more or less sound and they know the tricks of the trade. They know how to practice and prepare. They’re used to the speed of the game. Often, they learn new systems quicker than young, inexperienced players. If Hunter in particular, and the OL in general, wasn’t struggling so badly, I could understand going with Baxter for a few weeks, but with the OL having played so poorly to date, then they need all the help they can get before Sanchez gets killed.

In understand can’twait’s aversion to bringing in OL during the season. Of course, it’s better to bring them in during the offseason so they can learn the system, get reps, and have time to build a chemistry with their OL mates. In this situation, hwwever, Baxter only has a week or two head start on a vet like O’Hara, and I think O’Hara could quickly erase that and bring more to the position. That would allow Moore to help Hunter out more.

– Yefim Novikov

by joeklecko on Sep 22, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions