Should the New York Jets Bench Wayne Hunter?
It is a simple question and one probably worth discussing since Hunter has been beaten badly in pass protection consistently during the first two games of the season. The Jets might be 2-0, but Mark Sanchez is not going to survive the season if he keeps taking shots like he did in the first two weeks.
I am against benching Hunter, though. I have a few reasons for it. The first reason is that there is nobody better to take his place. A guy might be bad, but he should be in the lineup if everybody else is worse. There is a reason he is starting.
The replacement would probably be Vladimir Ducasse. Ducasse looked even worse at times in the preseason in pass protection than Hunter has been, and Ducasse was playing against backups a lot, not the NFL sack king, DeMarcus Ware, and a good pass rusher like Matt Roth. He looked particularly slow dropping back against edge rushers at tackle. Ducasse seemed to improve as preseason progressed. He got some good push in the run game. He did not look like he would hold up at all at tackle right now in pass protection. He also had a false start problem.
You might say it cannot get any worse. It can. As bad as Hunter has been, Ducasse is liable to get beaten on even more plays, resulting in more shots on Sanchez. Hunter is not getting whipped on every single play, just a large percentage. Ducasse may well get beaten on even more passing plays. You might argue Ducasse is a better run blocker. That is true, but it does not address the problem of Sanchez taking too many big hits. Say what you will. The Jets wanted Ducasse to win the job. There is no way they want a second rounder in his second year on the bench not contributing. If he could do a good job as a starter, he probably would be starting already. Preseason is not the best judge, but if a guy is struggling against backups at times, he will probably have a really tough time against starters.
The pickings are slim in free agency. Pretty much everybody good is locked up. Forget about Damien Woody. August was the time to bring him in. The Jets did not think he could help. He is out of football shape and reports are that he has already started dropping weight.
You might disagree, but I think patience is the right course. Part of it is because I watched Hunter play two even worse games last year against Houston and Miami than he has played in 2011. He rebounded to play much better in his five starts. In those starts, he did not allow a sack. He allowed 1.6 attempts to be impacted by a pressure or a hit. That is not all world, but it is passable for a tackle not protecting the blind side. It was a vast improvement over what he did before.
How did the Jets get him rolling? I think back to Week 15 at Pittsburgh. Wayne was coming off a disastrous game against the Dolphins where Cameron Wake toyed with him. Things looked bleak going against Lamarr Woodley. Hunter held up. The reason he did was he got plenty of help. Brian Schottenheimer kept either Robert Turner or Ben Hartsock in to pass protect on over half the passes the Jets threw that day.
Hunter could not have been playing with a high confidence level entering that game. He picked up his play from that point. His technique was more consistent the rest of the way. A week later, Hunter had little help against the Bears and was excellent. Julius Peppers even gave Hunter credit in the postgame interview, denying speculation a bad field might have cut down on his traction.
Hunter is a mess right now. Just watching him, his footwork appears out of whack. He is getting crossed up, losing leverage, and getting beaten to the spot. He is never going to exhibit the power Damien Woody showed at the position. His game is more based on athleticism, which requires good technique. After he built a little confidence last year, he seemed to get things going. He will never be a top five tackle, but the Jets ran for 100 yards at Pittsburgh with him starting on the line last season. The team did not give him a new contract because the front office is stupid. He showed good things at the end of last year.
We are now right back where we were after that Week 14 Miami game. Brian Schottenheimer is once again going to have to do things to build Hunter's confidence. That means tight ends lining up next to him and chipping the outside rusher. It means backs staying in and shading to his side. It means quick hitting plays so the protection does not need to hold. It means screens and draws right to slow down the pass rush. It especially means a lot of Matthew Mulligan staying in to pass protect and even maybe a little Ducasse on six man lines to extend the edge.
The drawbacks are obvious. Taking a receiver out of the passing play makes it easier for coverage, which has an extra guy to dedicate to somebody else. It takes some things off the table. The reason the Jets paid their receivers is because these guys are supposed to be good enough to make up for these disadvantages. This drawback is less of a hit than an injured Mark Sanchez would be.
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I say
keep playing him, unless we find somebody to take his spot.
This is what it sounds like When Doves Cry- Prince
vlad
I’m scared to even mention this because of the repercussions, but I will bight the bullet for those thinking it. Does big Vlad get a shot in practice to run with the 1’s?
For who?
Wayne Hunter blows so far and just think how bad Ducasse is if he cant even challenge Hunter for his position the answer clearly isnt on our team yet
Ducasse will get his chance in 2 weeks if this keeps up.
It’s too early to bench Hunter even tho I think Vlad would be better than Hunter in the end.
A quick profile on Hunter
Wayne Hunter is small for a RT. Some would call him a finess blocker. What I mean by this is Wayne might not have the ability to hold back a rusher due to his lack of size and strength but he SHOULD be able to use solid footwork to keep infront of a rusher and buy Mark time to make 3 step drops.
In the passing game this is Wayne in a nutshell. He won’t be any better than this. His lack of ability limits playcalling and his lack of girth leaves Mark open for a hit at any moment.
Whats even worse is Wayne was getting beat against his strength by a slightly above average rusher. Wayne’s footwork was horrible yesterday and he was getting beat before he even had a chance to touch the defender. This means that not only is he being beaten at his weaknesses but also his strengths. In other words he’s getting worse.
A change won’t happen this week. More likely 2 weeks from now.
The Jet’s won’t make a trade.
They drafted Vlad for this spot and he will own it soon.
Hunter isnt small he’s the same height as Ducasse and only 7lbs lighter. Ducasse isnt ready and if was the better option he’d be starting. Hunter hasnt shown much to be pleased with but I think they know it could be worse when you insert Ducasse. Im pretty sure Ducasse would give up at least sack every game just from seeing him struggle with practice squad players from the preseason. Only time Ive seen Ducasse get off the ball faster than his opponent is when he’s called for a false start.
Your generalizing and focusing on lowlights
I have watched every snap these two have taken multiple times for the last two years. I have played the position for 15 years and I coach it at the high school level. I know very well who has the better upside and ability to get it done.
Your “if he was better he would be starting” isn’t a point at all. Vlad is a project and has proven more and more with every snap.When Vlad proves he is better he will start. My prediction 6 weeks ago was that he would end up being the starter by week 5 or 6. He’s on the up and Hunter is not only flat-lining but getting worse. Im not on a podium screaming for Wayne’s benching. I don’t agree with pulling him now. If i was jumping off cliffs and overreacting i would be another one of the doom bringers saying “hunter sucks pull him now”. It will happen in it’s own time. All im saying is his performances are “bench worthy” and eventually that is exactly what will happen.
You want to go by yahoo’s best guesses as to height and weight thats fine. I’m telling you that ducasse has put on weight since last year. He’s noticably bigger than Hunter where it counts (waist, rear, legs, ect). I think the 20-25lbs at his waist or suits his frame well and his body type lends to a better defense against pass rushers. He’s also proven to be better in the running game.
Listen, I don’t care if you believe me or not.
I didn’t care when I got laughed at when everyone wanted Vlad cut in preseason and I was the only one saying he would show noticeable improvment. By the 4th preseason game Vlad improved leaps and bounds.
I also didn’t care that I was the only one saying that the fan base would be ready to lynch Wayne for not being able to handle solid pass rushers. Week two comes and goes and I’m right again.
From the very beginning I have said that Wayne’s spot was in jeopardy and that he would loose it if he didn’t play beyond his current ability.
Sit back and watch as I go 3 for 3
i'd love for you to be right
"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengel
i cant spell a nosebleed
The Official Seinfeld Gif-Man of GGN!!!!!!!!
I’m not saying Ducasse doesn’t have more potential because he better or that’s just a wasted pick all I’m saying is if Ducasse was a better option he’d be playing instead of let the guy in front of him stink it up while getting Sanchez killed. We’re not there during practice and it obvious they don’t think he’s ready or the better option which is scary looking at Hunter’s play
by JetsFan718 on Sep 19, 2011 9:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You Weren't the Only One Questioning Hunter
I agreed with you and pointed out that except for the end of last season, Hunter has never been a successful starter. He has always struggled. Some said that he should be better knowing the job was his this year, but I said not necessarily, and said that this could expose the flaws in his game.
I think Ducasse has potential, and maybe within a few weeks he will be ready to start. I sure hope so! I just hope that Hunter doesn’t get Sanchez killed or on IR by then.
Are there any FA OL available that you think the team should sign, particularly at C/OG?
"Reality is purely the perception of the individual mind. It follows, that since no two minds are alike, no two perceptions of reality are alike. It further follows, that what reality is to one, may seem complete madness to someone else."
– Yefim Novikov
Hey bud
your e-mail we usually correspond through has been spamming me like hell lately.
Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
Archduke of PACOS.
GangGreenNation.com
Sorry
Don’t know how that happened. Did it happen before yesterday? I don’t have any viruses. I even got a Norton tech to check my pc out last night and they couldn’t find anything. I don’t open emails from people I don’t know or click on links in emails unless I know and trust the person. I’ve changed my aol password in case someone had somehow stolen my password. Please let me know if it continues.
"Reality is purely the perception of the individual mind. It follows, that since no two minds are alike, no two perceptions of reality are alike. It further follows, that what reality is to one, may seem complete madness to someone else."
– Yefim Novikov
I'll keep you posted. Nothing yet.
Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
Archduke of PACOS.
GangGreenNation.com
Rich Orhnberger from the Pats practice squad.
He’s a local NY kid. Went to Penn State. He’s small for a guard but I love him at center for depth and starting in a pinch. Huge lower body. Can squat a buick. He played guard at college. He’s Hoyers center at the moment for the Pats and he’s low on the depth chart. I think he’s better than any G or C backup we have right now. We should keep an eye on him. He got a low grade head injury in preseason.
Are there any FA’s I’m interested in? Not for the money, no. And I’m not in the slightest bit interested in bringing Woody back.
Thanks for the Info
on Orneberger.
I’m surprised that you have no interest in bringing in a FA OL. Really? The Jets have close to $7 million in cap space they aren’t using. Why not? Surely they could sign a one-year deal with someone in the neighborhood of $2-3 million. Besides, it isn’t your money. Hunter doesn’t look like he’s gonna be able to pull it together. You don’t think Stinchcomb could do a better job? You don’t think O’Hara would be better than Baxter?
"Reality is purely the perception of the individual mind. It follows, that since no two minds are alike, no two perceptions of reality are alike. It further follows, that what reality is to one, may seem complete madness to someone else."
– Yefim Novikov
I think we should sign both Stinchcomb and O'Hara..
They aren’t doing anything right now and we could probably get them on the cheap. O’Hara could fill in for a few weeks and give us depth after Mangold comes back and Stinchcomb can hopefully replace Hunter and hold down RT for the season or until we feel Vlad is ready. The nice thing is their contracts won’t be guaranteed so if they don’t work out we can cut them with relatively no loss. I don’t see how O’Hara and Stinchcomb even if they are not 100% or are showing some signs of age couldn’t do a better job then Baxter and Hunter, I don’t see why we aren’t already doing this there is really no downside..
by RhodesRocks on Sep 20, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Im trying to think like the team I guess.
I have thought the line depth was a little thin for a while. The team has stayed quiet reguardless of having plenty of time to sign some one. Were they waiting for somthing like this to bite them in the ass? Could be. It’s nice to have the money around and I give the team a lot of credit for having it in the first place.
I just don’t see anybody the team has just gotta have.
I have always preferred the thought of going with the depth you have carried rather than bringing in a lineman during the season. These guys know the play book and they are already Jets. I wanna see them fix this in house. Thats just me though.
I don’t like regular season additions to the Offensive line.
Lol yea but what can he do? Guaranteed it would have been a fumble coming from the blind side
by JetsFan718 on Sep 19, 2011 9:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
great consolation
good thing mark knows .8 seconds ahead of time that hes going to get demolished
all kidding aside, im certainly glad that he can prepare himself a little for the hit
never had faith in his game
enought for him to to be the starter, he is a great backup but i want to see stitchcomb as the RT. Best RT in the game a year ago and cut for cap reasons, no red flags besides being 33 or whatever he is.
J✈E✈T✈S✈ JETS! ✈JETS! ✈JETS!
Hes actually only 31...
And yeah he did have an injury but even if he is only at 80% of what he was during his probowl form two seasons ago 80% of that is 300% better then hunter…
If we're going to chip with a TE and keep in a back for extra help, then why not just go to Vlad now?
Wayne got the not, presumably, bc he could hold up in pass pro. He doesn’t give is much in the run game, never did.
Vlad’s issue was pass pro. He seemed to have issues with speed rushes, and would over-extend and lose balance. But the dude can flat out maul in the run game, and he can give us pop at the point of attack.
With all this extra help, we might as well turn to Vlad and at least get the run-game some traction. Besides, he needs the reps and he could build a lot of confidence if he gets a chance to go out there and push people around.
I think Vlad can hold up in pass pro if he’s getting a chip from a TE. He won’t have to over-extend and he can keep his core intact. If he’s balanced, he’s tough beat once he’s engaged.
I say go double-TEs with Keller and Cumby (no way, did I just say that?), with both lined up on Vlad’s side, and send one up the seam and use the other to chip and release (to the flat preferably).
I think this will spice up the run game, give Vlad a little extra help, and it’ll muck up the defensive game plan. Its so threatening with the run, yet so difficult to cover with those 2 dynamic TEs off playaction; not to mention that the outside WRs are likely to be singled up.
FSs would really be in a bind… How hard do they bite on run action? Do they shade Plax or Tone? Or do they sit in the middle and wait for Keller and/or Cumby to climb up the seam?
by Crackback on Sep 19, 2011 2:36 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Would rather get a RT that we didnt have to help every play and your plan sounds a little too complicated for BS lol
I would much rather have a RT that is not a liability on every play...
but the jets don’t seem to have one on the roster…that said I agree with Crackback. If we are going to keep Hunter in there with the stipulation that we have to help him on every single play, why not put Vlad in there who can at least get it done on running downs and requires the same help on passing downs at Hunter. We might as well give Vald the reps and practice, he has the physical tools that Hunter does not have we might get lucky and he could start to catch on after a few games of experience. We are not going to get lucky with Hunter, he is a career back up that has been around for a long time he has reached his potential and its not very good. Hes over 30 now and past his prime, if we are going to constantly help out our RT and hand cuff our offense because they are a liability, we might as well be developing the guy with potential and who can help out our struggling run game..
Hah, I agree completely here.
I was actually thinking about this when i was posting earlier on other articles. If you’re going to have to make changes bring extra help, why not develop the guy with a higher upside. Hunter better get his act together or his time starting will be short. Hope we pick someone up though just incase someone else goes down.
+1000000000000000000
Awesome idea CB! Plus getting Vlad out there is getting him experience, even if he doesn’t pan out to be a starter in the future but, I think he will
by JETSFAN IN SC on Sep 19, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem with chipping with a TE is he seems his weakest getting beat inside.
That makes Brandon Moore responsible for helping him inside. If he needs two players to help him, I rather try Vlad.
well
if rex thought that vlad is almost ready, why didn’t they send him in for a couple of plays? i hope he is ready soon, because hunter doesn’t impress me at all. i hope mangold is back soon, i’m afraid i O-line will be a total wreck by then
"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengel
i cant spell a nosebleed
The Official Seinfeld Gif-Man of GGN!!!!!!!!
Considering how anemic the running game is
Why not use Vlad to replace Turner’s role or straight up replace Hunter? If you have to help RT anyway get him experience. Only positive is Sanchez can see it coming!
by GangGreenGol4 on Sep 19, 2011 3:26 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Get him out of there
He can’t stop a 4th grader from getting to Sanchez. At least move him to a part time role and sign someone from the practice suad until someone pops up in free angency or we get someone decent for cheap
We need to see what Vlad can do
But its to late!!! After the easy Oakland game we have no time to experiment
i wouldn't call them easy
they have a good front seven, and our o-line isn’t looking very good right now. i’m not realy afraid yet, but i wouldn’t call this game easy
"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengel
i cant spell a nosebleed
The Official Seinfeld Gif-Man of GGN!!!!!!!!
Easy in comparison to the Ravens and Pats...
That’s why if were going to bring in someone else I think we need to do it this week to give them the Raiders game to get their footing…
I am gonna keep saying it, even though it wont happen....
Seubert and O’Hara are sitting out there, but they wont sign them. The Jets need to sure up the O-Line soon, you cant go into Baltimore and NE with this O-Line, Sanchez will get killed, he almost did against the Jags. This is a shame because the one solid thing the Jets had for the last few years was the O-Line. I am not confident in this team with this O-Line, they will go as far as this line can take them, and that aint far.
i hope
after the mangold njury they are talking to somebody. they can’t honestly believe that we aren’t short at O-line right now. mangold went down, what if brick goes down? what the hell are we going to do!
"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengel
i cant spell a nosebleed
The Official Seinfeld Gif-Man of GGN!!!!!!!!
JB, I agree on all points
Slauson got a slow start last year and pulled out of it too. Give Hunter the extra help with TEs or extra lineman – dual benefit… gets Hunter confidence and gets the run game going. At any point these TEs can release as a safety valve for Sanchez. Keller and Cumber are quick enough to get some YAC from the flat.
problem is
keller or cumberland are both not very good blockers, and i don’t know about mulligan. i’m getting a little worried about the O-line. this was the one position i didn’t realy have any worries about before the season, and it now seems to be our biggest problem. lets hope callahan is as much of a miricle worker as he is hyped to be
"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengel
i cant spell a nosebleed
The Official Seinfeld Gif-Man of GGN!!!!!!!!
I think Keller is much improved blocking
But they don’t have to be great-great. They just need to be used and at the same time.
by CervezaVerde on Sep 19, 2011 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
One other thing. On Damien Woody...
He had an achilles injury in Jan 2011 and its my understanding that its a year long recovery. So he’s not ready until late in the season.
by CervezaVerde on Sep 19, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Smirking and laughing
That is exactly what Hunter was doing after being penalized and beaten on plays. Am I the only one who noticed this? The camera picked this up at least 3 times on CBS. That is uncalled for. Bench him, and let Vlad get some much needed playing time….
You're certainly not the only person to notice or to be upset
Me? I don’t care. People have different ways of handling situations and stress. I guarantee he doesn’t think its funny. Rex probably doesn’t care either. Guys are allowed to express themselves however on this team, such as guarantee’n a SB.
by CervezaVerde on Sep 19, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
fuuny to see you here
isn’t it still baseball season overthere at AA?
"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengel
i cant spell a nosebleed
The Official Seinfeld Gif-Man of GGN!!!!!!!!
He probably was smiling because he felt he probably didn't do anything
They called him for a face mask but where I seen the game, I didn’t see any replays that actually showed he did it. Not saying he didn’t do it, but don’t read too much into him smirking.
What I care about is his horrible play...
He can smile all he wants out there if he is playing a good game and gets called for an occasional hold, but this was not the case against JAX. Hunter had nothing to smile about, he was getting dominated by Matt Roth, who has on average about 3 sacks a season over the course of his career which hardly makes him a great pass rusher. Sanchez was getting hit, the run game was getting stuffed, Hunter had absolutely nothing to smile about.

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