State of the Jets Defense: For Better or Worse?
by GreenBeer on Aug 6, 2011 3:22 AM EDT
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PrintA few days ago, I did a little break down on the Jets offense concluding that they may be slightly better just based upon the play at QB. Then they released Jerricho Cotchery; I'm now slightly less confident in the offense. Oh well, its still early. Just below is the link for offense.
http://www.ganggreennation.com/2011/8/3/2341304/state-of-the-jets-offense-for-better-or-worse
After the jump, a breakdown of the moves on defense.
DEFENSIVE LINE - The Jets made some interesting moves in the draft. They went after two defensive lineman with their first two picks gaining Mo Wilkerson in the 1st round and Kennrick Ellis in the 3rd round. It's already said that Mo will join Sione Pouha and Mike Devito as the starters. That of course begs the question as to whether or not Shuan Ellis will return. While the rookies may have upside, Shuan Ellis was described by Rex as "possibly the best pass rusher on the team last year." Without Ellis and a sub like Trevor Pryce, I believe the line is slightly worse even with the addition of the rookies. Perhaps by week 8, the rookies will be competeing at a high level, but to start the season without Ellis, I believe the defensive line is worse than last year. Position: Worse
LINEBACKERS - The linebackers return almost unchanged from last year. The starters are Calvin Pace, David Harris, Bart Scott and Bryan Thomas. Last year the top sub was Jason Taylor who performed decently with 5 sacks. This year Rex has nominated the unproven Jamaal Westerman as the top sub. On the loss of Taylor alone, I might be compelled to believe the linebackers are worse this year. But recall that Pace was injured last year and apparently never significantly recovered. A healthy Pace may make up for the loss of Taylor, who incidently subbed most often for Pace himself. Position - Status Quo
SECONDARY - The secondary returns almost exactly the same as last year. The corners will be Darrelle Revis and Antonio Cromartie. Revis will participate in camp and hopefully stay healthy unlike last year. Cromartie should benefit from another year in the system. The safeties include Brodney Pool, Jim Leonhard, and Eric Smith just the same as last year. Kyle Wilson will play the nickel; hopefully in his second year and with a mentor like Revis, he can reach his potential. Other subs include Dwight Lowery and Donald Strickland. The biggest loss is Drew Coleman but I do believe his play was more involved with scheme than his own physical talents. All told, a healthy Revis, another year in the system for the whole group and the tape study from last year, makes this group just slightly better than last year. Position: Better
Altogether, I don't know what to expect from the Jets defense this year. On one hand, I believe that another year together will help them tighten up the coverage on an already good defense. On the other hand, tight coverage is only so valuable if you can't pressure the QB. And I don't see any improvement in the pass rush, in fact, it may have gotten worse. More or less, I see them same defense as least year with a few minor tweaks. Let's hope they have a few hidden gems on the bench or a few more moves before the season starts.
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I agree with this...
I say we should sign Shaun Ellis…we have the cap room and he won’t be that costly…He would be a great mentor for our young linemen and the guy can still play.
OMG can you people please stop all the nonsensical worship of Shaun Ellis? He wasn't very good last year at all. And this year his old ass is just another year older.
Know how many games he had an impact in last year? 2. First game of the season Ray Rice ran his mouth to him in the pre-game and Shaun nearly decapitated Flacco on his first pass of the game. Then granpa disappeared until the NE playoff game where he got 2 coverage sacks. But the way you people talk about him, you would think he went all Derrick Thomas and turned into some unblockable force that notched 7 or 8.
Guess how many double-teams Shaun drew last year? ZERO. Guess how many times he dominated solo match-ups? ZERO. How often did he destroy pocket integrity? RARELY.
Stop the nonsense.
The 350 lbs athlete that is Kenrick “The Real” Ellis is already a marked improvement to Shaun the Yawn. And Kenrick hasn’t even been named the starter. The other freak athlete Mo Wilkerson (who’s already having epic battles with Brick reportedly) is apparently already the named starter.
Not to mention the return of Pitoitua, another year of improvement from Pouha and Devito, and another year in the system and improvement for MTV, Dixon and Gilbert. Our DL is loaded with talent and is as deep as all hell, and they have the best coaching in the business.
DL will DRAMATICALLY improve from where they were last year.
by Crackback on Aug 6, 2011 8:40 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I really don't understand the mentality sometimes...
many Jets fans just can’t let go of any player that havee played played well (even just at times) for the team, and be truly objective about them (be it their performance, age, or character), and let go. Be it JCo, Ellis, Edwards, Leon, TJ, Faneca, or Pennington. We have to learn to let go and think with our football minds, not hearts, lol.
Its the mentality of a group of people who haven’t won. We don’t have that mindset of rotation in and out to keep being fresh and competitive. So instead of having that mindset we have the mindset of heroes, the people who soldier on with a franchise that does not win, they choose to be here for the people, for the team, for the fans. So we honor them and hold onto them like grim death.
And the home of the .... JETS!!!
Now lets get a G-D snack!!!
"You might not like that. You might be very cynical about that. Well, f**k it, I don't care what you think."-Roy McDonald
by Noble_Lance on Aug 6, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There is a middle ground here
some of us try simply to be rational about accessing players by not overrating players like Wilkerson or Kenrick Ellis before they even play a single down but also not overrating a player like JCo who in this scheme was nothing special and actually had a poor year last year. My own feeling is that
On offense the only significant downgrade is Plax because he was already slipping before he missed 3 years. On D I would prefer to have Ellis and Coleman for depth but they are not great losses.
I disagree
have you seen what we’ve said about Kenrick, he’s becoming the stuff of dreams the anti-christ to Chuck Norris, the reason dinosaurs are dead and that he trained in Africa fighting Rhinos.
okay that was joke on that part.
And the home of the .... JETS!!!
Now lets get a G-D snack!!!
"You might not like that. You might be very cynical about that. Well, f**k it, I don't care what you think."-Roy McDonald
To be fair, letting go of Pennington was a mistake. Although we probably don’t end up where we are now if not for that move. Otherwise, everything else I agree with.
by Exystence on Aug 6, 2011 2:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No way
Teams were already starting to realize he could not throw the long ball. The short yardage game is good but once in awhile a deep threat is needed to keep your opponent honest.
I don't really think I'm in that boat
I prefer J-Co not for sentimental reasons but rather because I think he is a better option at #2 than a 34 year old recently released from prison and a 37 year old recently cut from his team.
And I would like to see S Ellis back, again, not for sentimental reasons but because he is good. Might even be better in a rotation. But he outperformed Devito and Pouha, as well as, MVT, Dixon, Pryce, and all the other bench warmers.
Edwards, I don’t care too much. Leon, had to be done. TJ wanted more money and was shot. Faneca, shot. Pennington, had to be done just to move on from a failed career.
So Let It Be Written, So Let it Be Done.
1000% agree
It’s called fear of the unknown, they being the fans that are stuck in the old Jets, are scared of what is to come of the Jets D without our be-loved Big Cat on the team, sure love the guy a real warrior but, to go and workout for the Jets arch rival the Patsies is a telling sign to me, that he really isn’t that committed to us as fans who pay his salary. That is like a slap in the face to us all, if he resigns good, if he doesn’t good. I don’t really care anymore the DL will be awesome with or without GET OVER IT! already
by JETSFAN IN SC on Aug 6, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Shuan Ellis as Rex has said was his best pass rusher
That’s Rex saying it. Your sudden dislike for Shuan Ellis is as irrational as your belief that Taylor Mays can be Lawrence Taylor. For me its not some sentimentality; its watching the Jets for all these years and seeing Ellis play. The idea that you put faith in two guys that have never played a down in pro ball lacks common sense.
So Let It Be Written, So Let it Be Done.
Some might think that after all these years you would have picked up that his name is spelled Shaun, and that at least common sense would have helped you to figure that out. Your repeated mispellings of his name is baffling.
As for the rest… hey, some people lack vision and balls. You were probably one of those screaming after the draft about all the “needs” we didn’t fill. Its funny how a lot you people that did all that bitching and moaning about the draft don’t actually have the balls to play the guys that you deemed would fit our supposed needs.
So yeah, I’d take Mo Wilk and Kenrick over ShAUn any day of the week and twice on Sundays. I trust our talent evaluators. And I believe in Rex and his staff’s ability to coach up the DL. Because I’ve seen them do wonders with no names like Pouha and Devito, and he has a fantastic track record from his days in B-more.
And I’d love to give Rex a toy like Lawrence Taylor Mays. Because I’ve seen over and over how uses unique talents to do wicked things. Especially if it will only cost us a late round draft pick or an expendable player. The fact that the 9ers are giving up on him tells me that their talent evaluators are dogshit, and/or their coaching staff is even worse than that.
Give Rex a low risk/high reward opportunity like that any time.
That of course begs the question as to whether or not Shuan Ellis will return. While the rookies may have upside, Shuan Ellis was described by Rex as “possibly the best pass rusher on the team last year.”
Lol. Cmon son. After all these years you couldn’t at least get THAT right?
Please, I mispelled a mispelling
Its Sean. Whatever, grammar nazi. Your credibility is shot when you say ShAun Ellis is nothing. Oh, you trust the talent evaluators on this team but not when it comes to Shaun Ellis, then you sub in your own vast knowledge. Please. You make yourself look foolish.
So Let It Be Written, So Let it Be Done.
Whatever
Me: He made the probowl two years ago. You: Oh, thats just because no one else wanted to go. Me: Rex has said Ellis is his best passrusher. You: crickets
You’ve already made up your mind. So perhaps we just wait to see where he ends up.
So Let It Be Written, So Let it Be Done.
He didn’t make the pro bowl. He was an alternate of the alternate of the guy that decided it wasn’t worth the trip. They literally asked who wants to go, and ShAUn was elevating his clubbed fist because it was throbbing and they mistook that as an affirmation.
Does Rex ever exaggerate to pump his guys up?? Naaaahhhhh, never. Rex’s “best pass rusher” had an eye-popping 4 last season. And rarely made plays. And that was a contract year!!! Why keep him around when there’s young studs with upside in the stable?
Where’s the $2M offers? Now there’s your crickets.
Don't forget Vernon's growth last year..
And the home of the .... JETS!!!
Now lets get a G-D snack!!!
"You might not like that. You might be very cynical about that. Well, f**k it, I don't care what you think."-Roy McDonald
LBs will dramatically improve as well. As will the DBs.
They say Pace’s foot was only 20% last season, and that now he’s finally fully healed. I’m expecting him to pick up where he left off in ‘09. That in and of itself is a huge boost. I also think that Harris, now that he’s been locked up long term, will beast. Having a much improved DL to keep him clean will only enhance that. I’m expecting Harris to be the beast he was in ’09 too.
The DBs really jelled heading into the playoffs. Hopefully Cro improves from last year, but i’m confident he at least won’t be worse. Wilson will definitely be better this year, especially after spending time attached to Revis’ hip this summer. Lowery and Pool were dynamite in the playoffs last year, and they’ll only get better with snaps. The benefits of the vastly improved DL play will also trickle down to them.
Defense will take a big jump this year.
Almost the same thing as above CB
I can’t really believe this article made front page, I mean GB you need to wake up on the right side of the bed maybe you’ll get a glass half full instead of half empty the Jets D will be much better as a whole the saftey play will be much better, Cro is determined to prove that he is a #1 CB, Wislon be better with Revis mentoring him, Pool and Lowery will be better and, a healthy Jimmy L.,Pace and, Ropati who was in the back field for 3 would be sacks yesterday tells me that the Glass is Half Full and, still pouring
by JETSFAN IN SC on Aug 6, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
To be fair
I didn’t say half full or empty. I said status quo and hoping Ellis is back and there is a gem on the bench. But I appreciate your enthusiasm.
So Let It Be Written, So Let it Be Done.
Better...
DL-if even one of the DL picks reaches potential we are better, if both way better. Add to this Pitoitua returning, I felt he was going to be the breakout player on the D last year before the injury, and arguably I don’t even think we need Ellis back.
LB- feel it could be better but right now worse, even with JT being only OK, we can only pray Westermann will be close to that at best. The biggest improvement might actually be with Pace, and him being healthy.
Secondary- better, healthy non-holdout Revis, everyone that waters back and a year more experienced in the system, Coleman gone is the icing on the cake, Rex trusted in him way to much, he was awful aside from 3-4 games last year, Strickland will be 100x better as long as he’s healthy.
Better+1
Come on its hard to believe that with the little bit of pressure the DL presented last year that this is even a debate. Unless Ellis and Wilkerson are complete busts they have to be at least as good as what we had. The numbers don’t lie. Now as far as them being monsters out there we will have to wait and see. I believe they will be adequete at the begining of the season but by week 8 or so they should really be making a difference.
If either one or the other lives up to potential or hopefully both we should be very difficult to throw against by the time we get to the Philly game. Then we are set for the playoffs which is where it really counts. Don’t forget while the beginning of the season is important the end is more important
Didn't even have to read the article (I did)
Better, better, better at every level of defense. I think we’ll be returning to the # 1 defense in the league this year.
DL- The depth we got here is far ahead of what we had last year: Ellis, Mo Wilks, Ropati, Dixon, MTV. All of them are better than last year and both Ellis and Mo Wilks have been improving. With all this youth the signing of Ellis a luxury and without a doubt improvement.
LB- Not much of an improvement here but Pace is healthy and Westerman should improve; least improved unit of the team.
Secondary- IMO, most improved. Having a healthy Revis and Cromartie who will be in his 2nd year in the system will be huge. The improvement of Kyle Wilson (Has been turning head) and the signing of Strickland gives us a very formidable secondary. Couple that with bring back almost every safety. Lowery will get better as he gets used to safety, Brodney will be more comfortable calling the plays and his play should be similiar to how it was at the end of the season.
Westerman doesn’t even have to “improve”, he just needs to be given a god damned chance. As much as Rex likes to say he plays the best player, what he really means is he likes to play the most proven player, regardless of if they’re any good or not. It’s why Shonn Greene has played second fiddle to two old men at RB and why Trevor Pryce got so many snaps last year over all the young tackles we’ve compiled, and it’s why Jason Taylor was at all a Jet last year.
So you know what? I’m through with keeping old men on the team. Let the young guys play, it’s what the f*** you drafted and signed them for right?
by Exystence on Aug 6, 2011 2:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Pryce was very good last year.
I don’t think Rex is arrogant enough to not play the best player. But I agree, it’s time for the youngsters to strap up and get us over the top
Better
There are some obvious things at each level of the defense. In the secondary Wilson will be better, Revis will start the year physically prepared, Cro and Pool will have had a year in the system. We have more depth up front even if Ellis does not resign and Pace and Leonhard will be healthy.
However I think the biggest improvement will be related to scheme and coaching. We were the worst D in league last year in giving up 3rd and longs. Part of this was just bad fortune but a lot of it was the adjustment of the league to the blitz schemes and Ryan/Pettine’s stubborn refusal to adjust…until the playoffs where our schemes had Manning and Brady completely off-balance. I think our coaching staff has matured and the biggest difference will be that we simply don’t give up so many first downs on long plays.
The best move the jets made on defense
bringing back Pool! Now if we can just get some kind of trade going leonard for Taylor Mays (I think one of crack’s favorates still out there) we would be set.
I like lowery in the FS/SS position along pool…second best defensive move.
And to all Jets fans…there has to be a balanced approach to S Ellis…. is he as good as the rookies we have? no…the rookies are better. But can anyone think of a better back up for the price / experiance / mentorship / class / and knowledge of the system? I dont think there would be a list of 5 better backups then S Ellis. Truth is he lost a step, getting old and lost a step… but he still has plenty left in the tank and can play well in a reduced role. So lets find a balance between money and player loyalty. Up the $$$ from the minimum, make him a decent offer and if he signs great if not let him walk. But a Vet min is an insult
Its not insulting at all.
Did he get any offers from anybody else? Do we need him? The answer both questions is no. Why should we give a roster spot to somebody thats average and is on the downside of his career, when we can put somebody in thats just as good, is younger, and has more upside?
thats just a bit harsh
I do agree he is on the down side, but you make it seem as though he is totally washed up…which to be honest he is not. S. Ellis has something left in the tank and can be productive. His prime has come and gone but he is still able to contribute.
Rookies in general are unproven and injury prone. (the first thing to come to mind is jarrod odric from miami) S. Ellis is a good insurance policy against the unknown. Is he worth 2-3 million, absolutly not…should he start more than likely not…he could but should not…[its time for new blood] but is he a viable back up / insurance policy…yes he is. IMHO 1.25 is reasonable. I am all for letting him walk if he wants more but 1.25 reasonable for a backup w/ leadership and something still left in the tank.
I think we can agree
Without S.Ellis the D line is a #*#&@ beast, better than last year and the pick ups are flippin awsome.
But when it comes to depth behind the [more than likely] starters….K.Ellis MoWilk, Pohua and the big R….is anyone behind them better than S.Ellis? I am going to say no, so on a team that is win now!! I like the depth and insurance S.Ellis brings
I think Ellis is worth $2-3 mill
If they gave Jason Taylor $2.5 mill, and Devito makes $2.5 mill, then sure S Ellis is worth $2.5.
So Let It Be Written, So Let it Be Done.
i would rater
see 1.25 for ellis and then 1.25 and take a shot at taylor mays at safety. 2.5 is way to much for S Ellis.
If anything 1.50 for Mays cause his speed is crazy fast
IMO:
Dline: Status Quo because of the upside, if we resign Pryce and Ellis it’s Better.
LBs: Better just because we locked up Harris. Also, Mauga can step up to a nice backup role and J.T is gone, thank god, so Westerman can finally step up.
DBs: Slightly worse, because I think that Drew Coleman was becoming a sollid player in the defense, and I don’t yet trust Wilson or Strickland.
mine:
Dline: ??? too much relies on rookies.
LB’s: I’d say status quo but JT and Harris were the only two who really produced and one of them is gone.
DB’s: status quo. Strickland is just as good as Coleman in the nickel or dime, if he can stay healthy. Otherwise we have exactly the same lineup sans Digs, who we will miss far more as a blitzer than in coverage.
Arm chair GM. Mod at SBN Jets blog GGN.
GangGreenNation.com
FWIW
Pats fans seem thrilled that Ellis might be gone. He was usually doubled teamed by them apparently, and was still productive. Also, his numbers from PFF are stellar. He led the team in QB hurries, which does mean something. There’s a reason Rex says he’s our best pass rusher.
This
It seems everyone is either in the “omg we lost _ it’s the end of the world” camp or the “we didn’t need him we r da best!” crowd.
Ellis is a loss. One we may be able to overcome, but a great loss nonetheless.
Arm chair GM. Mod at SBN Jets blog GGN.
GangGreenNation.com
When did these phantom double-teams take place?
I don’t recall many. I don’t recall any actually.
Its not as good
If they resign Shaun Ellis it will be better, and have more depth. If they don’t resign him, it is slightly worse. Maybe Pititoa will give them something this year, but I don’t remember him ever really getting to the QB. Ellis at least got near the QB consistently last year, and hopefully he can mentor the younger guys.
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