Jets 2011 Wide Receivers: Extending the Great Debate
by GreenBeer on May 29, 2011 12:37 AM EDT
Email
PrintAs the lockout lingers on like a muggy hot New Orleans summer and free agency remains stalled on the roadside with a wisp of steam rising from its radiator... just kidding, I want to talk about the Wide Receivers again. I know we 've done it before and before that again and again, but I promise a new slant that will not involve Randy, TO or Ocho with more than one mention. I also won't have a poll for this one as it, well it just gets too dicey for some.
My full and final Jets Wide Receiver wrap up for 2011 ... after the jump.
I've said it before but it bares repeating... the Jets 2010 offense looked confused at times and among other things, I blame all of the various personell packages and formations. This experiment with a young QB and three competeing wide receivers, just didn't always work. For 2011, I think the Jets and Sanchez in particular would benefit from a set no. 1 and 2 receiver. They need to focus on consistency and consistency is born in practicing consistent formations and packages. Consider for example, Reggie Wayne is always on Peyton Manning's left side. Peyton always knows where he is in good times and bad. Sanchez needs that comfort zone in my opinion.
Number One WR
I am thoroughly conviced that Braylon Edwards is ready, willing and able to come back and be the "number one WR" (for whatever that means in the end). Braylon has size, speed, and with nurturing and confidence, he also has good hands. Unless the Jets insult him with a low ball number, he's back. I want the Jets to feed him the ball. Hit him on slants, hooks, go routes. Let's see this guy repeat his stats from 2007: 80 catches, for 1289 yards and 16 TDs. If he falls short of 2007, but provides 65 catches, 1000 yards and 10 TDs, that great too. It can be done; he has the talent, we have the team, he just needs that confidence to come back full swing.
If Tanny and Rex, in their wisdom, decide that Santonio Holmes is the better option, then so be it. If they can sign him and are confident that he is a safe risk, than so be it. Make him the number one. Feed him the ball. Let him find his stride and never "insult" him again as he says they did in the Pitts playoff game. Let him make all the big catches in all the big moments. I'm on board for that too.
Number Two WR
I doubt there will be money for both Braylon and Santonio. But if there is, then so be it. One will line up on one side and the other obviously on the other side. Pick the sides based upon match ups. Figure out who can be your possession receiver and who can be your home run, or trade them off each other. But in no instince should either trade time with Cotchery. If both Braylon and Santonio are back, Cotchery needs to be the 3rd WR or, though it pains me to say it, traded or cut.
Now again, I don't think the Jets can afford both Braylon and Santonio. And it would pain me to see Cotchery have his role diminished or to be traded. I think Cotchery is the most sensible number 2 receiver in the scenario where only one of the other guys comes back. Cotchery, despite some set backs that we later learned were due to injury, has been a very good route-running possession receiver for the Jets. He is capable of 70 catches, for 900 yards and 5 TDs. He is the perfect compliment with a playmaker on the other side. I would go as far as to say that I think Cotchery would be better as a number 2 WR than Braylon or Santonio would be.
Cotchery would certainly be a better number 2 receiver than slouches such as Randy Moss or TO. The slouches are former playmakers with diminished skills who will always have trouble playing across from Braylon or Santonio in diminished roles. Personally, I don't believe the Jets are even considering these guys. I challenge you to find me one quote from Rex or Tanny that shows any real interest the Jets may have in them. Its simply a media creation. It's simply a better (I hate this term, but sexier) story to report that the Jets may possibly be interested in Moss than for example, Chansi Stuckey. The story causes all sorts of mixed emotions from Jets fans; it turns ordinarily retarded Pats fans into pack trolls. It reminds me of past Hollywood reports that Nicholas Cage might be cast as the next Superman; it makes no sense. Moss at this point is little more than a twice a game go route option, a role that could be played by David Clowney.
Chad Johnson and Steve Smith (Car.) could potentially be options for number two WRs if its determined that Cotchery is broken beyond repair. Both could fill the role as possession receivers and both could keep their egos in check to play for a winner. But Cotchery would have to be done, and these guys would have to come super cheap. They do not fit the role as a 3rd or slot WR. Again, so unless Cotchery is done, there is no need to discuss these guys further.
Slot Receiver
So if Braylon and Santonio are back, Cotchery needs to be demoted permanently to slot for consistency. Since I believe only one of the big two come back, and Cotchery will then be the number 2, the slot is open. Here I don't think consistency is as important. You can put Kerley in the slot; you can shift Keller over in two TE sets; Tomlinson or either of the McKnights could get work there too. If Rex and Tanny feel a veteran WR is needed, there is always Brad Smith or a free agent such as Chansi Stuckey. In the end, there is no need for the Jets to have too much money tied up in a position that the offense doesn't exploit.
So that's it. That's all I have to say about that. Do you disagree with this summation?
112 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I actually agree with u
this makes alot of sense. Now i also thing that the jets should go for braylon cause he would be alot cheaper than santonio. When free agency does start teams are gonna be throwing alot of dough to tone and like he said he gonna go with the team with the most money. But also to ponder when free agency does start it would be short cause it would be close to camp so staying with ur current team would make alot of sense and when it comes to the play book so i can also see them both coming back and pushing jerricho backe to the slot cause u can never have enough talen
Ahhhhhhhh..........
Braylon has shown absolutely nothing over the last two seasons with Sanchez to suggest he could be a number one, he has been nothing but a streaky deep threat, who has disappeared numerous times during both seasons. I love the skill set he brings as our #2, but if you think he’s ready to step up and be the #1 your dead wrong, and fooling yourself.
Holmes on the other hand has progressed every season in the NFL (aside from last, statistically, part of which can be blamed on the trade and suspension) he is on the door step of being a true #1. He basically single handedly won three games for us, and without him we would not have even been .500, let alone make the playoffs. He showed chemistry with Sanchez almost immediately (something Edwards did not until the very end of last season).
what?
@Judgegavel how many games did you watch last season? How about the browns in 2007? Sure braylon didn’t come up with the game scoring TD’s this last season… but how can you possibly say we would have gone .500 without santonio? we were 3-1 without him, only game we lost was by 1 point to baltimore, and big wins vs Miami and the Pats.
Braylon has already proven he can be a #1 receiver despite the fact that he had no other talent… he was often double-covered in 2007 and still managed to score 16 td’s.
Yeah Holmes is better
But to say Edwards isnt a #1 is ridiculous he was the most consistant WR last year. J-Co and Holmes each had more drops and holmes showed a tendency to put the ball on the ground.
Braylon has only had one camp
His first year was on the fly. His second year was a competition year with two other receivers. I believe he is ready to be number one.
So Let It Be Written, So Let it Be Done.
i agree
he had a great year last year, and he came when we needed him the most
"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengal
i cant spell a nosebleed
he's gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!OLIE PEREZ IS GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, I mentioned him in the slot
A 5th round pic is lucky to be mentioned at all in his first year
So Let It Be Written, So Let it Be Done.
Cut or trade J-Co (maybe in a package with Leonard).
He’s been replaced by Kerley. And there’s a bunch of FA receiving options if we don’t bring back one of our guys (Sims-Walker, Nanee and Floyd of the Chargers, Rice .
But I think we should make bringing our guys back a priority. Let Cro walk if we have to, franchise Harris, and cut Jco, Leonard and Tomlinson. Then next year we can cut Scott.
Cut all the old and unathletic. Loyalty is for losers.
by Crackback on May 29, 2011 10:13 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Loyalty brings heart
Loyalty is not for losers Crackback. It’s one thing to well overpay someone who doesn’t produce or offer leadership (Favre?) However, look at Shaun Ellis. He goes completely unnoticed most of the time, is the longest tenured Jet on the roster, and when we needed him most he came up huge with those sacks in the playoffs (more notably the NE game).
Loyalty is important because it also feeds into chemistry, rapport, and leadership. It just has to come at the right price. Ellis, like Tomlinson, Leonhard, and Scott are good leaders in one way or another. Some are quiet and set good examples and others are emotional and fire guys up, but they are all important.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose
by dhrodgers52 on May 29, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Ellis stinks too.
Guy was invisible for most of the year, then everybody gets all misty over a couple coverage sacks. I could grab a couple AARP guys that coulda got to Brady after the half hour he had back there. And one decent game doesn’t make a player.
Screw Shaun Ellis. Just bc everybody else is worse at pass rushing that Ellis doesn’t mean Ellis is any good. It just speaks volumes about how truly terrible our pass rush is that Ellis, who sucks, is one of the better rushers on the team.
Know who else was a top pass rusher on the Jets last year? Drew Coleman. 4 sacks, 5 FF, and a safety (I think).
by Crackback on May 29, 2011 12:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah dude was invisable most the year but no one on that D-Line stood out at all. Ellis had a dominating game against the Pats that he will never repeat but he still a very cheap and effective option on the D-Line and if you think the team is better without him your lost
by Nu York Fan on May 29, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh geez to both of you
Ellis is good. Perhaps he needs a defender post. Coming soon.
So Let It Be Written, So Let it Be Done.
I think Ellis is worthy of a defender post
but might not be worth our while to retain, in terms of finance and need at the position.
GGN Moderator, House pessimist, veteran arm chair coach.
www.GangGreenNation.com
Glad you dont run personnal decsions
We would not get anywhere letting Cromartie go with lack of depth and no real replacement, Cutting J-Co when he is a reliable vetern, Cutting Leonhard when there are safety issues and he is a great hard working safety, And planning to cut Scott?
Loyalty is for losers? This aint madden, Jets have a respectable franchise players want to play for because of Rex and how we treat our players
by Nu York Fan on May 29, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Cro stinks and is a huge disappointment. The only thing JCo can be relied upon is dropping a pass in the clutch.
There are no issues at safety, that’s complete nonsense. The safety play improved dramatically in his absense. And he’s a complete liability in coverage. Leonard stinks. Stop with the hard working nonsense. Everybody works hard. And everybody wants to project intelligence on him too, which is also bullshit. How many times were we misaligned and burned with him out there? How many times were stuck with 12 guys on the field (sometimes 10) with Mr. QB of the defense at helm?
And hell yeah I want to cut Scott. Has any non-rookie ever been paid more to do less? Guy gets paid top LB dollar to make plays. He doesn’t.
And loyalty is for losers. Paying big dollars for past production is idiotic. Screw what guys did in yesteryear, or if they helped install the defense, or if they’re “Rex’s guys.”
We should be loyal to nothing but winning. If your not that good, are you’re not on the upswing of ur career, you should be gone. None of those guys are good. And all of them are on the downside of their careers. Be gone.
by Crackback on May 29, 2011 12:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree with you most of the time...
But I think your Cotchery comments are far off. Cotchery is everything you look for in a jet and he will play every single down. People seem to forget how he had 0 drops before this past season. He was also playing injured for majority of the year… And to say he isn’t clutch? Does anyone need to say anymore then the one legged play on a crucial down against the browns? Or his catch and run on a crucial 3rd down conversion against the pats? I don’t think he is overpaid… He is a quiet guy in the locker room and has no off the field issues. It’s guys like cotchery that makes me proud to be a jet fan… I agree we need to commit to winning, but to cut a guy like Cotchery? I’m sorry I just don’t understand the logic behind that
by john_146 on May 29, 2011 1:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Because there is no logic behind that. Crack likes to stir the pot with crazy talk from time to time. Think about the season we would have had last year without Cromartie, Scott, Ellis, and Cotchery. We may not have won the NE playoff game without Ellis (and what’s this “coverage sack” crap? He’s a 3-4 end for cryin out loud the OLB’s should get there before he does), wouldn’t have won the Cleveland game without Cotch who admittedly had a down year but that still doesn’t mean he’s washed up, and Cro was solid if not damn good most of the season.
No, cut them all, and let’s start Kerley who’s never caught a pass in the NFL, let’s start Ducasse who’s looked like garbage with the few looks he’s been given. Because they’re young! Who starts for Cro, Kyle Wilson? Please. He’s barely good enough to play nickel. Revis is getting up there in years too you know, what’s he going into his 5th or 6th year? We should probably cut his ass too. No need for that loyalty crap.
Friends don’t let friends drink and post.
by nationalist88 on May 29, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I've been calling for a Jco trade for 2 years.
He’s average and trending downward. You don’t put an aging, avergae-sized, avg-speed and slowing guy as your 3rd receiver. You get a guy that either has above grade physical tools (be that size or speed) or you go with a young guy with upside. Kerley fills the young with upside mold and he makes JCo obsolete. JCo having a gimpy back at his age the decision to cut bait all the more easier.
You say we wouldn’t have made the AFCC if not for Cro, Ellis and Scott. I say if we had real talent at their respective positions we would have easily won the division and been a 1 seed, and we would have gotten to the Superbowl.
All 3 of those guys failed to make impact plays for the overwhelming majority of the season. And the impact plays they did make were largely negative (Cro and Scott).
I’ll willing to bet the farm that the guys that want to hang on to JCo, Scott and Leonard are the same ones that would give anything to bring bag Chad Pennington and/or Laverneous Coles. Like children clutching onto their old, raggedy, smelly blankies even though they’re far too old for them.
by Crackback on May 29, 2011 4:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Cro, Ellis and Scott Cost us a #1 seed and SB apperance
If these guys are so bad why were they even starting? None of them could make impact plays and made largly negative plays why coundnt they be replaced by someone else? Why is Cromartie still a top 15 CB in this league?
How can you get more talent than a 3-4 end who gives you seven fucking sacks when he’s not even supposed to rush the QB? There’s a reason Rex said Ellis is the best pass rusher on the team. Because he is. In our defense, Pace and Taylor should’ve had twice as many sacks
And I think Cro did a damn good job having to play opposite arguably the best in the game. He picked up some PI’s but there aren’t many corners who thrive in man coverage, and he held his own.
by nationalist88 on May 29, 2011 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Cro gave up a huge play almost every game. He got destroyed by Marshall and Branch and Garcon. Not to mention his continuous bullshit PIs.
by Crackback on May 29, 2011 9:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
well good thing you are not a betting man...
I’ve said before cutting would make no sense for cotchery. Its not like he has a ridiculous contract… If we can get a SURE upgrade with someone proven then by all means trade him if it upgrades the team. I’m not going to take a chance on a mid round rookie in his first year and a shortened off-season…sorry. I’ve been wanting scott out from the moment I actually looked into the financials of the team. Leonhard is a guy I can live without but he’s a good guy to have around and he is familiar with the system. Do I think he is over paid? Hell yeah… But hardly a waste of a roster space. But as for J-Co… I’m not willing to dump him after ONE below average season when he is hurt… I find it a bit ridiculous…
by john_146 on May 29, 2011 9:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Why do you want Leonhard out?
I see you dislike scott because of his paycheck which I disagree with, Bart does his job cant hate a player if he does what he is supposed to would you turn down that contract? You want leonhard gone and is overpaid at 2.5 mill a year? LT is getting paid more and he will (or atleast should) barely see the field this year
I don't want leonhard gone
I would like for him to take a little less as he is no longer as big of an asset as he was in 2009… I think pool and lowery while rotating digs and smith in worked nicely. I love leonhard don’t get me wrong, but he is not what he was in 2009 being as he had the advantage being in the system longer… As the year progressed I’m not so sure even if he were healthy he would have been our starting safety. And to pay a guy 2.5 mil to be a backup doesn’t make sense IMO. I do think bart does the dirty work which makes harris thrive but I don’t think it would make sense if he and harris have the same kind of contract. I agree with LT I think he should restructure and I think when he said he wants to be a 3rd down back that gave the jets a little leverage to see what they can do. I love all these guys but I truly believe they shouldn’t make as much as they do
by john_146 on May 30, 2011 5:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Still see him as a starter
I dont think anyone will over take his starting job if healthy. I dont see the players make to much money aspect of the game. If you want to see someone gone because of their contract the person you should be angry with is Mike T but I dont think anyone is really that over paid other than Pace. Bart Scott was seen as a guy who the Baltimore D couldnt carry on without and was getting a big payday no matter where landed
I guess we will have to agree to disagree
I strongly believe he thrived and played as much as he did because he was familiar with the defense and there were new comers to the system each year. (Rhodes last year, Pool this year) but once they learned the system I believe they were better players at the position than he was.
by john_146 on May 30, 2011 8:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Why cut J-Co?
He’s relatively cheap and obviously an improvement over Kerley. I agree that we could save money by cutting Leonhard (as we have enough safety depth). Get rid of LT. Why are we paying 2.5 million to a guy who says he’s ready to be a 3rd down back. We have 3 other capable backs who combined have the same salary (not even) as L.T
Why keep him? He can’t separate from anybody, can’t get yards after the catch, his hands suck, he’s not getting younger and now he has back issues.
And I think Kerley will instantly be an upgrade.
by Crackback on May 29, 2011 11:03 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
2 years ago jco was amazing after the catch…..he may not have break away spead but i remember him making one or 2 guys miss and always getting those extra few yards
before last season cotchery averaged in 2009 5.1 YAC, 2008 4.9 YAC, 2007 5.4 YAC
that seems like pretty good YAC numbers for me compared to the 4.7 holmed had last season with the jets……people are forgetting how good cotchery used to be before he got lost in the braylon and santonio offense where the other 2 recievers pushed him aside with their supiror talent……i am very happy with cotchery as the jets #2 reciever
also i like kerley and scotty mcknight because both are recievers who look like they can make damage on a 3rd and 5 over the middle
my ideal jets wide recievers for next year is – braylon cotchery kerley turner and mcknight
dont forget how much we used keller as a reciever beofre holmess came into the mix also
If Turner and McKnight make it out of camp then we’re a sub .500 team.
by Crackback on May 29, 2011 1:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What???
I didn’t know one position; such as reciever made or break a team. That’s an ignorant comment if I ever saw one.
Don't know about ignorant
it’s about as subjective as everything else on this blog.
But I definitely agree with you that teams with terrible receivers, and QB’s, and every single position whether deep or singular no matter what squad can and have gone very far in this league.
GGN Moderator, House pessimist, veteran arm chair coach.
www.GangGreenNation.com
Ok, I'll go with far fetched.
GB had no depth at running backs and they won a championship, as you said above a weakness at one position will not doom you to mediocrity.
J-Co is an excellent route runner dont know if Kerley will be much faster. Also J-Co did have a bad year with several drops but usually has reliable hands
by Nu York Fan on May 29, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Can’t get YAC? Did you watch that playoff game in New England or did you turn it off because the guy you hate more than Belichick, Shaun Ellis, was morbidly abusing the Patriots’ O-line?
And don’t think anything about Kerley, because nobody’s seen him do a damn thing in the NFL yet. Remember when you were one of those guys “thinking” what a monster Vernon Gholston was going to be?
by nationalist88 on May 29, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
His hands suck?
If you’ve been a Jets fan the last 5 years you know he has good hands. His route running is really solid, lacks speed but can seperate. Kerley has proven nothing, nothing. Cotchery isn’t going to get a lot of YAC because he’s purely a possession guy.
Yes. You mustve missed those passes doinking off hos chest last season. And if u wanna say it was cause of injury, then ur just hopelessly optimistic. Back issues that require surgery don’t go away for aging players that are participating in a collision sport.
Let go of the blanky. JCo is done.
by Crackback on May 29, 2011 5:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What about the other 5 years
when he dropped nothing?? Me wanting to keep J-Co has nothing to do with loyalty, it’s the fact that he’s our best option at the 3rd reciever spot. When T.O was in his prime, he led the league in drops, but would any sane man want to cut him? No cause he was damn productive.
Why No Consideration
For #2 Reciever
Santana Moss – Would be great to see this guy back in NY, he would no longer be the #1 for a team with constant changes at OC and most stable QB was Jason Campbell. Great route runner with reliable hands
Plaxico Buress – Yea dude is in prison but by the time the lockout is over he will probably of been out for 2-3 months at this rate. Granted he was in PC (pussy) he still should be workin out and should come out stronger and slimer, as long as he dont eat and blow up when he comes home he would be a great fit he justs has to do some running, he’s not getting any weaker in prison even if he is in PC
Ok, let's see
Burress is not worth discussing. No one knows what he will be beyond a 36 year old who hasn’t played football in years. So even if the Jets had interest, it could only be as depth. Not worth discussing depth until we know who is back.
Sanatana moss could be interesting but again, I only see value if we know who is back. Moss could be a number 2 but at this point I think Cotchery is more value.
So Let It Be Written, So Let it Be Done.
Do think Burress has one or 2 good years as a true red zone threat that would have to be accounted on, he never really got by on speed.
I think Moss wont be looking for big money because he has to be up there in age, even tho he isint the burner he use to be I think he is still a better player than J-Co and I am a J-Co fan
Well...
I think Buress is a complete gamble. I think he could only be considered an experiment. Its much different if he is 30. He’s 34 or older and hasn’t played football in years. Did he get to run sprints in a 10×10? Is one hour outdoor time enough to practice to be an NFL widereceiver on a playoff team? Its such a gamble and the upside is an old WR.
Santana is interesting but JCo knows the system. So I learn much more heavily there.
So Let It Be Written, So Let it Be Done.
Cotchery stuck through an entire season with an incredibly painful injury
He’s dedicated, a leader, and hard-working, and not to mention probably the most clutch Jets receiver over the past five years.
So what now? Its poof and its gone? Is that it? Bad back, doc makes a snip here and a snip there, and the next time a LB or S collides with him at maximum velocity everything will be A-OK… Is that how reality works for old men that where green?
by Crackback on May 29, 2011 5:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, I think we don't know
And thats were I leave it to Tanny. But I would be surprised if he couldn’t help at slot.
So Let It Be Written, So Let it Be Done.
Agreed
A back injury is one of the most painful injuries to play through; more painful than playing through a broken hand or strained anything.
Sounds like
That Tanny and Rex would prefer to bring back Holmes, and would be more willing to part with Edwards if nee be. If thats the case then it wouldn’t be a shocker for them to go after a field stretcher like Moss.
Apparently the FO thinks he still might be
don’t know why.
GGN Moderator, House pessimist, veteran arm chair coach.
www.GangGreenNation.com
Like I said in the post
Show me where Rex or Tanny made a comment about Moss? Its a media creation that rex and Tanny benefit nothing from denying.
So Let It Be Written, So Let it Be Done.
Oh well... from Cimini today
Owner Woody Johnson, for one, apparently believes Moss, coming off his worst season, still has the potential to play like a star.
“There’s no question that Randy Moss has the capability, has the God-given talent to be a superstar, and he has been a superstar, particularly with the Patriots,” Johnson told Albert Breer of the NFL Network at this week’s owners’ meetings in Indianapolis. “That’s about all I can say about him, other than I admire his skill and what he’s accomplished during those years.”
So Let It Be Written, So Let it Be Done.
Is Crackback nuts?
Dude what kind of Jets fan are you? Screw Ellis and J-Co. You shouldn’t be on this site if you think loyalty is for losers. J-Co made a catch that all of the writers on this site were raving about. And 3-4 DEs are not really big on getting sacks because that’s what the LBs are for. Do you know anything? Ellis is a dependable option who has been loyal to the Jets and until we have a better option he is someone we can rely on. Besides, he is someone who young players like Wilkerson can learn from.
J-Co had one bad year (which was said due to injury) and you want to throw him under the bus. He’s 28 (not old) and put up good numbers when given the chance. His numbers have been down because Braylon and Santonio were ahead on the depth chart. Not to mention, he isn’t a big number on the cap. He was everyone’s favorite and extremely reliable besides this past injury-plagued season.
Small example of why it’s good to have guys like J-Co, Ellis, Tomlinson on the roster if they aren’t killing the cap: you really think Aaron Rodgers would be as good if he hadn’t learned from Favre. He has talent, but learning from someone who is successful has a lot to do with it and the guys we have can help out the younger newcomers.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose
Mistake
Should be: Screw Ellis and J-Co?
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose
Anyone can and should be on this site
unless they’re consistently abusive of other users or the guidelines.
GGN Moderator, House pessimist, veteran arm chair coach.
www.GangGreenNation.com
Cmon son. Aaron Rogers is good because… Aaron Rogers is good. And he wouldve better sooner if Favre had gotten out of his way sooner.
JCo is nearing 30, trending downward (rapidly), and his back is gimpy. Has nothing to do with numbers. Its the good old eye-ball test. He adds absolutely nothing to the table. One play doeant make a player. He’s just not a player any more. Let go of the blanky.
Ellis and Tomlinson are both complete wastes of space. Neither are dynamic. All Ellis does is hold the point of attack. Yawn. MTV and both rookies can do the same, right now. Why waste free agency dollars on his old ass? I trust Rex and his gang to coach up the rooks just fine; and added tips from Pouha and Devito will more than suffice.
Tomlinson is declining… Rapidly. He put forth a Herculean effort in order to be productive for just under half the season. He’s not likely to puy forth the same effort in preparing for the season. Logic indicates that even if he does work out just as hard this off-season, he will still diminish (so probably only 3rd of a season where he’s useful). If he doesn’t work out as hard, it’ll be even less than that. Waste. Especially when our backfield is loaded without him. Why not use those dollars to help sign somebody necessary.
by Crackback on May 29, 2011 5:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree with you that our team can be improved by cutting those players
but I think Ellis does more than hold the point of attack. He didn’t look so great last season and it’s looking more and more like we can’t afford him at his price and age. I think it’s time for us to move on, but Ellis can still do some damage for a team. We might even wind up needing him down the stretch, rookies and injuries are always x factors.
GGN Moderator, House pessimist, veteran arm chair coach.
www.GangGreenNation.com
I wouldn't blame them at all for using him
I think Ellis still has something in the tank. We can’t retain players just out of fear rivals or other teams will sign them. Would you have set aside a roster spot all year for Danny Woodhead?
GGN Moderator, House pessimist, veteran arm chair coach.
www.GangGreenNation.com
My point is that Ellis has value
Woodhead, actually, well, ah, thats another discussion. Ellis was a starter and still can be.
So Let It Be Written, So Let it Be Done.
Starter or not
the comparison holds firm. Your fear is that Ellis will produce for our rival like Woodhead did. If we have the pieces in place (which is up to Rex and the FO to determine) for an effective DL without him we have to make a business decision.
GGN Moderator, House pessimist, veteran arm chair coach.
www.GangGreenNation.com
My point is that Ellis could beat out most for starter job
My mention of NE, is that he could beat out up there too
So Let It Be Written, So Let it Be Done.
Let him go to NE. Who cares? He disappear twice a year when he plays us. Whoopdeedoo.
And Woodhead was so awesome up there that they drafted 16 RBs last month.
by Crackback on May 29, 2011 7:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bro, you went to an autograph signing or something like that, and Shaun Ellis stole your girlfriend. Just admit it. Please. Then all of this buffoonery would make sense.
by nationalist88 on May 29, 2011 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Kinda have to
When your going to lose 2 or 3 RBs over the offseason. Fred Taylor is likely to retire, Morris isn’t going to be resigned, and who knows with Faulk’s contract being up at 35 y/o and coming off a knee injury.
Doubt it
NE has no need for any more DL. Wilfork, T. Warren, Mike Wright, Kyle Love, Myron Pryor, Brandon Deaderick, and Ron Brace are all under contract and have starting experience for the Patriots. They just signed Marcus Stroud as well and appear interested in trying to resign Gerrard Warren who played better than expected last year.
Out with the old, in with the...
You want to get rid of all these players and bring in new ones, but clearly that is not how it works. Clearly Rex, Mike, Woody, etc thought Ellis, J-Co, LT, etc all had enough left to offer the team. Also, there have been reports of wanting to resign Jenkins (old and injury prone) and not cut LT. Why do you say you have confidence in our staff but then essentially trash the decisions they’ve made.
They didn’t have to bring back Ellis, but like I said earlier, he was a better option than anyone else (or so they felt). You are completely disregarding the value of having the veteran presence in the locker room and to help rookies. why do you think the Jets signed a 40+ year old QB to be Sanchez’s backup? He sucks, but he can help Chez progress…
It’s completely unrealistic to think by the start of the season they will just cut all of those players, it’s more likely they will keep them and resign old ones (like Jason Taylor). You said you trust Rex, so hopefully you still will when they keep the old guys…
FYI, Braylon is 28 also, just like J-Co, and Santonio is 27…so it’s not like they are much younger…
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose
There's seems to be a lack of a dinstinction between those who are FA's and not
Electing to keep a running back through his contract is way different from resigning a free agent looking for a pay day.
GGN Moderator, House pessimist, veteran arm chair coach.
www.GangGreenNation.com
Not at all
No lack of distinction, but look at what happened with TJ a year ago…and now electing to keep LT? They are obviously different backs and LT is a valuable receiver, but similar situation if I remember correctly cause TJ was under contract.
Also, cause they were talking in earlier posts about cutting guys still under contract…
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose
TJ is a perfect analogy. He stunk. Before last season myself and a handful of others wanted to be rid of him. But everybody threw a temper tantrum while wildly clutching their blankies, saying he rushed for blah blah yards and that we shouldn’t disrupt a good thing and a lot of whining and moaning. Thank god we cut his ass. But too bad we replaced him with another big named old man.
Can’t be affraid to turn it over when these guys are no longer productive. Gotta give up the blanky.
by Crackback on May 29, 2011 7:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Glad you brought this up. Because now you’re saying thank god we cut TJ since he was “no longer productive”. 1,402 yds rushing with 14 TD’s is no longer productive?
Can you remind me what kind of stats his replacement had last year? Let me help you out – he didn’t even crack 1k on the ground or score half the TD’s even including receiving, which was zero anyway.
Meanwhile, TJ got about 14 less yards than LD behind KC’s shit line last year, while Tomlinson ran behind all-pros. Just sayin’
by nationalist88 on May 29, 2011 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Last I checked, TJ looked like shit last year and Greene didn’t have anywhere near the same amount of carries as TJ did in 09.
Oh yeah. And TJ stinks. Just sayin. Here’s your blanky.
by Crackback on May 29, 2011 9:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Greene wasn’t part of this exchange and I’d take him over LD or TJ, in 2011 at least.
Exactly how did TJ look like shit last year? He put up the same numbers as LD did! If 900yds rushing stinks then say they both stink. But my point is TJ played on a crap team, LD got those same yards behind pro bowlers.
Is TJ my favorite back? Of course not. His days are obviously numbered at his age. But for the sake of this argument, there is no way you can say TJ wouldn’t have run for more than LD if he was still here. For better or worse, TJ’s production just would not have dropped off by 500 yds in one season playing in our offense.
by nationalist88 on May 31, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Comparing one guy who STINKS with another guy who STINKS doesn't make either a good player.
They both stink. And I’ve vociferously advocated for both to be gone. Tomlinson i never wanted in the first place, and although he looked much better early on than i thought he would, he still ended the season where i thought he’d end up (which was shitty), and he stole carries and stunted the development of Greene just like i thought he would.
JCo seems to be aging. Braylon and Holmes seem to be getting better every year. And the gap in talent btw those and JCo aint exactly close.
And we’re keeping the guy that’s getting slower every year, can’t catch anymore, and just broke his back because why again?
Oh that’s right… We need our blanky.
by Crackback on May 29, 2011 7:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't understand any of your hate towards some Jets.
While some might not like Bart Scott, I don’t see how you can “hate” him since he is an above average linebacker. You are very loud with your Leonhard hate and it confuses me, because we don’t have many options at safety. You sometimes throw out insults to guys that deserve lots of respect, like TJ, who had 3 outstanding years here; and Shaun Ellis, who is aging but still is a great leader and still gets pressure. AND NOW J-CO? The guy that has wqorked his ass off to get in the starting lineup for 3 years, then when he did, he has produced? The guy who got in a major car accident, and not only lost a friend in that accident but still has shards of glass poking out of his hands and arms. Yet here you are, totally crushing a guy and begging for him to be cut while he is still producing after injuries and working to get back MAYBE JUST TO BE A BACKUP THIS YEAR. You sound really selfish, and excluding Bart Scott, you make some of these guys like Ellis, Leonhard, and J-Co out to be guys who aren’t out there for the team and talk shit like Scott, when they clearly aren’t. Your negativity is really starting to make this lockout worse for me, and probably others. Sorry for the rant, but I think is needed to be said.
u make no sense
i am a jets fan and i do not liek bart scott…..so what that he is an above average linebacker i am still allowed to dislike him….i do not like players who talk bigger than their game…..and i think he is only an average linebacker who has over produced every year thanks to playing in rex ryan’s system and next to a probowler in ray lewis and then david harris…why cant my dislike for him be justified…..i cannot stand watching a jets game and seeing them get a 15 yard penalty just cuz bart scott cant keep his mouth shut
i am huge ellis and cotchery fans i think it is ridiculous that u think a person cannot dislike a player on his favorite team…..i think that is natural and good…..because only an ignorant fan would say he thinks every postition is perfectly filled and he likes every player on the team
by MrMartain on May 30, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Life would be so much easier if I wasn't an arm chair GM
my sig should say that instead.
I’m always looking to change the team for the better. I understand the loyalty approach but I’m much closer to Crackback on the cold hard business side. The simple truth of the matter Bart Scott at his contract is not good for the team, spiritual leader of whatever. I like Leonhard and Ellis and B. Smith and Cotch but their abilities may not be great enough needs for this team anymore at the salary they will be asking. It’s just a matter of business, not hate.
I really like your post though. People need to be allowed their opinions.
GGN Moderator, House pessimist, veteran arm chair coach.
www.GangGreenNation.com
I said a few times that I understand the dislike for Scott.
Are you guys not reading?
and excluding Bart Scott!!!!
I agree...
In the end, they will make the decision for what they think will make the team better, be it now or in the future.
I'm just saying that J-Co and Shaun Ellis
Deserve respect, and neither have done a thing to make fans “hate” them.
Nobody hates them, they just need to go.
Its one thing to be an average player with an upside in the future. Its another to be average and on the downside of your career.
Disagree...
both hopefully stay. Ellis, totally depends on what he’ll accept as a contract. J-Co because he’s the third best reciever and doesn’t hurt the cap. You have no evidence to say that any one on the team can reciprocate Ellis’s production. (because they can’t) I’m surprised Crack you seemed to be a bit high on Ellis after the season from what I remember.
Nope. I was drunk off a big playoff win. I’ve since sobered up. Ellis was invisible for most of the season, didnt disrupt the pocket much, didn’t command any double teams… He held the point of attack. Whoopdidoo. You don’t choke off the development of hungry, younger, more athletic players for an average old man. MTV can hold the point of attack too. Let the old man walk. Trust the talent thats there; and trust the best d-line coaches in the biz to have these guys ready to go.
I agree let Ellis walk if
hewants a somewhat lengthy/expensive contract…However, if he’s willing to stay here for the cheap sign him. And yes, at times, Ellis disappeared, but other times he’s collapsing the pocket. He obviously does more than collapse the pocket. No one else on the line got close to 6 sacks, which for a 3-4 end is not bad, not bad at all. MTV is a nice, young player with some raw skill…but he had what 4 tackles last season? (him or Dixon) You keep what produces: young or old.
Don't Forget the Past
Does no one remember when we got rid of Leon Washington and TJ and Faneca etc. A lot of players voiced their displeasure with the team. While some guys may be more expensive, you have to consider what they mean to the team in other ways.
I understand the cold hard business side of just wanting to win, but don’t you think an older, possibly a bit overpaid guy would be worth it if he helped make the entire offensive line better? Just an example, not arguing with Bart Scott because he is overpaid, but it’s not his fault the Jets offered him more money than he’s worth. You would’ve signed the contract as well. It’s not like Scott bitched and moaned (that we know of) to get more and more money out of the Jets.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose
Bart Scott got paid to be a playmaker and to help institute a new defense. He didn’t get paid to be a glorified defensive fullback.
He scoffed at the notion that he wouldnt be as good as he was in B’more bc he would not longer be along side Ray Lewis. I remember that he even derisively retorted that Ray wouldn’t be as good with HIM.
If you’re gonna take a fat check and run your yap, you better back it up.
BRAY MUST COME BACK
him and mark seem to click better than with holmes. J-Co comin back would be nice, but there are enough FA that if we could trade him it wouldn’t be that big of a loss and I wish J-Co well, he was great for us.
@Crack, the way you make it sound, the entire team sucks and this is the Buffalo Bills, WTF
Just Jim Leonard, Bart Scott, and Shaun Ellis. Cro isn’t terrible but he’s bi-polar. If we’re gonna give up a huge play every now and then, i’d much rather it be Wilson because I know that Wilson will eliminate the mistakes as he gets more experienced. Cro is experienced, and he still plays like a rookie.
we signed scott and leonard to contracts…..and unless either one is will to take a pay cut i say we trade them or respect their contract….but dropping players is an insulting and shows the little respect you have for the contracts you gave them
i have no problem trading leonard and scott for cheap jsut so we can get rid of their contracts and still be a respectable organization….and get something in return…..unfortunately since rex ryan and bart scott are clearly butt buddies ( to say it nicely) i cant see any situation with bart scott leaving no matter how much i dislike him
What the hell nonsense are you talking? Of course, you try to trade them. But nobody is gonna want to overpay for an average player with no upside. You don’t let their contracts choke your cap if you don’t have to. Especially when there’s other young studs that are due to get paid. You really gonna let Pool walk to keep Leonard? Let Harris walk to keep Scott? Play Shaun’s average ass which stunts Kenrick’s and Mo’s growth?
Get outa here with that BS.
i agree with you on harris and scott and in no way do i want to see harris walk…although both kendrick and wilkerson played for smaller programs and especially without the training camps they would usually recieve i dont know how ready either one is to start on week one….that is why signing ellis to a one year contract would make a lot of sense sicne he can mentor wilkerson since the two of them have simlar builds both being about 6-5 300 pounds also the added rest i think will help increase shaun’s productivity while mixing the rookies slowly into the mix
also this is jim leonards last year of his contract and he is set to make 2.075 million i think that is a relatively justified contract also with leonards leadership on the defense i think that itself can justify his contract especially how after he got injured he worked 1 on 1 with pool (for the better of the team not himself) to teach him the safety position in the rex ryan offense
i agree with you that scott is not only a problem we face this year but a problem we will face for the next couple since he is signed through 2013 or 2014 i believe that his 7 million a year will never be justified and should be spent on other players
Leonard is not a leader on defense. Thats a myth. You are not a leader when you’re the toast. And you’re not a leader when you continuously line up guys incorrectly and miscount how many guys are on the field.
Now that everybody knows the defense, Leonard is useless. And 2M is an awful lot for uselessness. Especially when there’s a bunch of real players to sign.
And I’ll bet that Rex has plans to use both Kenrick and Mo inside and outside. So Shaun’s mediocrity will only inhibit these guys development by stealing their snaps.
i would not call uselessness since he was productive when he played..i dont remember doing anything that made me hate him….he made mistakes in pass coverage but he made many nice tackles throughout the season….remember how sad we were (mayb you were but i remember most of ggn was) after lost leonard and the jets defense looked lost the next game against the patriots
and no matter how mediocre shaun ellis was last year he still outplayed everyone else on our defense and as you claimed he just got 6 “coverage sacks” no else did and thats including pouha and devito who saw just as much playing time as him …pouha had 2 sacks on the year , maybe you can call them 2 "coverage sacks also…..and with all the playing time in the world that devito recieved last year he didnt pick up a single sack…..i have nothing against either player and i love what each one does against the run…..but on a passing down in a 3 man set…i rather ellis standthing there with wilkerson and kendrick rather than either pouha or devito
also…as unfortunate it is to say this and i hope im wrong….some1 on our Dline will get inured this season and i would love to have shuan ellis hen that happens
Ellis had 4.5 sacks, 3.5 of which came in the first 4 weeks. Then he was as quiet as a mouse until the coverage sacks at NE. And our DL is the deepest part of the team. There’s the 2 monster rooks, Pouha, Devito, Dixon, Gilbert, MTV. That’s 7 solid, multifunctional guys right there. Re-signing Shaun Ellis would be a waste of money.
I was one of the few to predict that the safety play would improve without Leonard. Which it did, dramatically. And we’d be better off cutting him and saving the cap space this year.
by Crackback on Jun 3, 2011 11:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
HAHA...I love the bi-polar line and agree 100%
i agree about Scott becase he is a hot head who is stupid at times on the field, but he is the emotional leader this team needs, i do not agree about Ellis and Leonard
While theyre not big play makers, they are consistent and they are leaders. Every consistent player still has games where they are not at their best, but that is a part of the game. We could afford to lose Ellis, but not Leonard.
BS titles such as "emotional leader"
don’t command a top five salary.
GGN Moderator, House pessimist, veteran arm chair coach.
www.GangGreenNation.com
OH, don't get me wrong, I agree with you 100% there, his play is not worth his money
but in all reality, does anyone really see Bart leaving this team though. Rex will most likely be the longest tenured head coach this team may ever see and Rex will keep Bart with him every step of the way. It’s something we are just gunna have to accept and live with.
I agree with you there
I don’t think he’s going anywhere. It’s just frustrating to me because 1) I’d like the team to be smarter fiscally so they can sign greater quality and quantity of players, and 2) most of the people rabidly defending the presence of Scott or Cro or the OLB’s, or hell bent on retaining players that have become dead weight or excess parts are the same people that want to sign Nnamdi or keep Holmes and Edwards.
SOMEWHERE along the way people have to get realistic or be continually disappointed by their ridiculous expectations. I think Jets fans have been a little spoiled because of the high profile moves we’ve been making for years now. They expect FO magic every season now.
GGN Moderator, House pessimist, veteran arm chair coach.
www.GangGreenNation.com
I agree all the way
people must let reality hit them!
Money wise, the team is not making the best decisions, Revis’ HO was a great example. Money shoud = talent and on this team that is not the whole case.
With that being said, I would let Holmes go and keep Bray in a heart beat and let cro walk if it meant signing Nnamdi.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Gang Green Nation
Related FanShots on Gang Green Nation
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Former high-school star Brian Banks does serious time on trumped-up charge, now hopes for an NFL shot
- Former ‘idiot kicker’ Mike Vanderjagt in trouble after accosting junior-high heckler
- Adrian Peterson blows teammates away in footraces; appears to be on the mend
- UPDATE: Charlie Sheen didn’t buy Lawrence Taylor’s Super Bowl ring
- Alex Smith gets blown up by Jon Beason over Cam Newton comments
