The Quandry With OLBs
Most of us acknowledge that the Jets' biggest need or the biggest issue standing in the way of winning the Lombardi Trophy is the lack of consistent pass rush/pressure on opposing QBs. As we know, that is one of the primary responsibilities of OLBs in a 3-4 alignment and they are the primary means of pressuring QBs in the 3-4 alignment. One problem is that few college programs traditionally have played the 3-4, and even when they have, they may play a different version than most NFL teams. Their players are generally smaller as well, so it's not always easy to project them and other collegiate defenders into the OLB position. Most often, it's collegiate DEs who have to make the transition to the OLB position. Most of them have never dropped into coverage, and since covering TEs and RBs is part of the responsibility of OLBs in the 3-4 alignment, that complicates the issue. After the jump, I'll discuss some of the other problems and an interesting table and article I found at Football's Future with regard to OLBs.
With more teams than perhaps ever playing a 3-4 alignment, being able to draft a good OLB prospect is getting harder than ever. Most likely, the Patriots will look to add an OLB prospect. The Chargers, Broncos, Ravens, Packers and other 3-4 teams probably will be as well, as one can never have enough pass rushers. Another problem is that due to the importance of the pass rush (since the NFL has become more of a passing league), OLB prospects get overdrafted and many of them wind up being busts. According to an article I recently read at this site, sack numbers over the last five years or so are down, thus putting more pressure on 3-4 teams to find that stud pass rusher at the OLB position. In this process, some teams can be too influenced by the measurables and reach for players in desperation. As far as the Jets are concerned, they either haven't been in the right place in the draft to get that elite prospect or had other needs. For example, in 2006, there were several very good OLB prospects: Tamba Hali, Kamerion Wimbley and Manny Lawson, and the Jets were finally in the right spot to be able to take the one they wanted. The problem was that the OL was in shambles. It had been ignored/inadequately addressed for too many years, and so they were forced to take both D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Nick Mangold. While that has worked out very well for the Jets, it would have been nice to add Tamba Hali, even though he was drafted by the Chiefs as a DE. Of couse, knowing the Jets, they might have gone with Wimbley or Lawson rather than Hali since at least 2 other teams (Browns and Niners, respectively) had them rated higher than Hali. To their credit, they haven't reached in the draft, but in their desperation to improve the pass rush, the Jets eventually had to overpay to sign Calvin Pace in 2008. He's been pretty solid, but is nowhere near worth what they are paying him. We won't even talk about Bryan Thomas.
Now on to the article I mentioned. A poster on another Jets site posted a link to an interesting article that takes a scientific approach trying to determine what OLB prospects have the lowest risk of busting and which ones have the highest risk of busting. He uses a fairly complex formula based on physical size and measurables from the Combine and Pro Days. He rates every OLB taken since the 2004 draft and includes prospects for the 2011 draft. While it is based on those measurables and Combine stats that lead many teams to reaching, and I'm not sure what his backgound and qualifications are, his conclusions look pretty darned accurate and convincing. At the very least, I found it a very interesting read, and it has opened my eyes a bit. Of course, it doesn't take into consideration, football IQ/instincts of the player, work ethic, ability to learn a complex pro system, character or any of they psychologocial factors, so it is just part of the puzzle, but I think it may be a useful tool in helping at least us fans, if not NFL teams, in making better-informed choices with regard to OLB prospects.
Just as a teaser, it rates Justin Houston and Dontay Moch as the two best OLB prospects in this draft, or at least they have the lowest risk of being busts from a purely physical and measurables standpoint. To see where Reed, Ayers, Acho, Sheard, Chris Carter and Von Miller rate, you'll have to read the article. I will tell you that it mentions one OLB prospect I've never heard of before. The guy who posted the link to this article on that Jets site had seen this kid play before, and said he kept jumping off the screen, although his college production wasn't very good. The prospect's name is Gabe Miller from Oregon St. If I can find some video and info on him, I will write an article.
Following is the link to the article. Happy reading. I'll be very interested to see your responses to this article.
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=11306362
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it was really interesting
it blew my mid. i really don’t know what to say now
"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengal
i cant spell a nosebleed
he's gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!OLIE PEREZ IS GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so basicaly he is saying
based on numbers, that seem to be scary correct that the two lowest risk picks are moch and houston.
"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
"we the mets are an improved ball club, now we lose in extra innings"-casy stengal
i cant spell a nosebleed
he's gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!OLIE PEREZ IS GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have to questions...
ok I am looking for honest answers cause I really dont know…I do not follow college football just the NFL
- I wonder where V. Golshen ranked and if the system would have predicted him a bust. and
- I have trouble understanding why try and convert a college DE from his natural position to a NFL OLB? It seems to me common sense would say even a college 4-3 OLB would be easier to convert to a NFL 3-4 OLB than a college DE to an NFL 3-4 OLB…then again as i admitted I do not follow college sports. but considering either 3-4 or 4-3 an OLB college and pro are at times asked to play pass protection and coverage and neither collge or pro DE (USUALLY) are not asked to cover. Why try to convert a player from a natural position. **I understand that there will be an exception from time to time but in general).
Now I am not trying to stick up for V. Golhson I think there were more issues such as heart desire and football IQ, but the conversion was probably a factor and was like trying to learn calculus in a combat zone.
I guess the bottom line is if you want a DE draft a DE and if you want an OLB draft a OLB..in “general” I think the conversion from natural position to new position going from college to pro is just asking for trouble.
someone please give me a bit of insight on why this happens so frequently
That being said I really hope that the JETS dont try this conversion process again…but more over I am hoping they draft a DT / NT versital enough to play DE if needed.
Basically its bc a 34 OLBs primary responsibility is to rush the passer.
The only time people really start talk about their ability to cover is during draft time. Its not all that important really in the grand scheme. The meat is their ability to pass rush, the potatoes is their ability to stop the run. Their ability to cover is like the secondary side dish.
3-4 OLB v 4-3 OLB
3-4 OLBs tend to be bigger than 4-3 OLBs by 20 or so pounds. College players tend to be smaller than the average pros. Therefore, there are very few college LBs big enough to play OLB in the 3-4. However, there are many undersized college DEs who may not be big enough to play DE in a 4-3 or 3-4. But because of their talent level, the thought is that they might convert to an OLB in the 3-4.
So Let It Be Written, So Let it Be Done.
its all about scheme
the reason for this is that the roles in a 3-4 and 4-3 are different. in a 3-4, the OLB position (i.e. demarcus ware and james harrison)is the one that is expected to rush the passer while the DE is merely supposed to occupy blockers and get push. in a 4-3, the DE’s (i.e. dwight freeney and julius peppers) are expected to rush the passer while OLB’s are meant to just tackle and cover. think of any 4-3 team and name one OLB who gets a lot of sacks. so, when looking for pass rushers to convert to OLB in a 3-4, you’ll naturally look for the DE, not OLB, from a 4-3, since they’re the ones w/ the developed pass rushing skills already
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
I couldn't follow the chart
I read that guys post and I have to admit, I couldn’t follow it. 1st, I am not sure where his data comes from. 2nd, I can’t tell if he is hand picking examples that work and hiding examples that fail his formula.
So Let It Be Written, So Let it Be Done.
this is very true
i’m not a big math guy and it was way too many numbers for me. that being said, it a) appeared he had down a heck of a lot of guys, so it didnt really look like he was cherry picking b) it mainly appeared he was focusing on the twitch time and 3 cone drill. other than that i was having trouble following as well
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
I re-read the linked story and am still not sure i understand. But if I do follow, I can say one thing… guys with good combine numbers tend to get drafted high. Guys who get drafted high tend to start.
I think he is trying to play moneyball with combine numbers.
So Let It Be Written, So Let it Be Done.
thank you to the three answers above...
they all make sense. one more question though (this may sound strange but remember I dont follow college sports)
do college programs (in general) develope 4-3 OLB’s that pass rush and cover or just one or the other?
I think the question is a bit broad
If a 4-3 LB was rushing the passer, it would be considered a blitz. Do college programs blitz LBs? Yes just like in the pros.
So Let It Be Written, So Let it Be Done.
very interesting piece klecko (both yours and this guy on footballsfuture)
although honestly i like your piece better. very well written. either way, in that other piece it also seems that chris carter has good measurables. he had a 3 cone time well under 7 seconds and a twitch time that was pretty decent. if we geet an OLB in the 3rd i would be very happy to land carter or moch
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
Gabe Miller, Oregon State
You can see him on the Paea clips. Very very raw. You can see the athleticism, but he seems very poor at timing the snap and he’s slow out of his stance. Has virtually no moves either. He’d be a project.
I like this clip vs Oregon bc he stands up as a 34 OLB for a bunch of snaps (#99): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGyNrdyFDvI&feature=related
maybe worth a late rounder
heck if he’s got potential i think it’d be worth a flyer on him
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
at the very least if he's that athletic he could prob be good on ST straight off the bat
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
Good point about ST.
I wouldnt mind taking a flyer on him to see if Rex can turn him into player. He seems to play a little tentatively, doesn’t really play with a lot of aggression and intensity. Not sure if its bc of a low motor or if he’s kind of uncertain about himself. Maybe getting with Rex could be just what he needs. Let him make his bones on specials and maybe work his way into the rotation. Could be one of those out of nowhere guys.
But every 34 defense team is going to have an eye on him too just bc of his combine and bone structure.
he’s very green on defense b/c apparently he never even played defense at all (he used to be a TE) until 2009 and he still put up 6 sacks this past yr. the other issue is that he had 2 achilles injuries
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=11467228
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
on another topic i saw this linked on the side here
how awesome is this mashup
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Video-Tom-Brady-cries-over-American-Idol-sh?urn=nfl-wp897
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
i dont even follow american idol, so i honestly dont even know who pia is but i thought the clip was hilarious
metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?
I was joking. I have no idea either. That's what makes it funnier.
So Let It Be Written, So Let it Be Done.
This and SackSEER are both high on Justin Houston...
I dunno man it seems like as soon as I started to really like Houston as a prospect now there’s all these sources that also do >_>























