Is the Lack of Explosive Players Really the Problem?
Brian Costello argues that the Jets lack gamebreakers on offense.
As Victor Cruz ran 99 yards down the field to the end zone on Saturday, there had to be plenty of thoughts running through Jets fans’ minds. If we could place comic book thought bubbles over their heads, most would probably look like this: "@#$!"
But there had to be just a few watching No. 80 for the Giants who wondered, "Why don’t we have a player like that?"
Cruz showed just what an explosive player can do, turning a 10-yard hook route into a 99-yard, game-changing touchdown. If you look at the Jets’ roster, they don’t have a player like him.
I have to disagree with Costello on a few fronts here. The Jets have explosive players. One of them is Joe McKnight. He just seldom gets used. The team is intent on playing LaDainian Tomlinson, whose burst is gone. Football is a game where small quantities of time make a big difference. Think of all the shoestring tackles of LT now that just barely prevent him from popping a big run. A guy who is a little faster avoids those tackles. Part of it is clearly Brian Schottenheimer. Additionally, McKnight would have scored a long touchdown with a better throw Saturday after he torched Michael Boley. That brings us to the real issue.
I also think Santonio Holmes is explosive. He has had some plays this year where he has shown every bit the explosion Cruz has. He is extremely dangerous on slants with the ball in his hands. Contrary to popular opinion, he is also a deep threat. He has the speed to get deep and has shown it. The guy once led the NFL in yards per reception with the Steelers. The Jets just do not use him in that way.
Holmes is plagued by bad quarterbacking. This is something I have picked up on watching the games. It isn't just bad throws on plays he is targeted. There are a lot of plays where he is beating the coverage, and Markn Sanchez is not going to him with the ball. There are other times where Sanchez holds the ball too long, and the window closes. Holmes has made some brutal plays this week, but he would be having a big year with good quarterbacking. You can talk all you want about the weapons surrounding a quarterback. More often than not, good quarterbacks turn medicore receivers into good ones, and bad quarterbacks turn good receivers into mediocre ones.
To me it is as clear now the Jets should not have gone with Plaxico Burress over Braylon Edwards as it was at the time. That certainly took an additional explosive player away. With Sanchez throwing Cruz the ball, though, he probably wouldn't be viewed as explosive.
People say you can't only point to the quarterback. That might be true, but the quarterback is really important. An offensive line cannot complete a pass, but a quarterback can make an offensive line look better by stepping up in the pocket to avoid the rush. The Jets have a quarterback right now who steps into the rush. A receiver can do everything right, but he cannot succeed if a quarterback cannot deliver him the ball on time.
I know there are problem areas, but I do not think anybody can look at the overall talent on offense and say this is a unit that should be near the bottom of the league. We can argue the reasons and how to fix it, but the big problem right now is the quarterback, not the skill around him.
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also think Santonio Holmes is explosive. He has had some plays this year where he has shown every bit the explosion Cruz has. He is extremely dangerous on slants with the ball in his hands.
sorry john b but i can’t get the picture of him getting caught by a LB against Detroit last year that would sort of go against him being really explosive .
if its for you it won't pass you
That was a bad angle by Holmes he should have ran towards the corner ....
didnt Holmes win that game… ummm…. maybe?
The Hardest thing for some men to do is .... Believe what they see!
No. Holmes didn't win the Detroit game
Nick Folk did.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
my point is that explosive wr's don't get caught by slow LB's
and weather his angles were wrong is irrelevant as the LB made up ground on holmes .
if its for you it won't pass you
WRs nomatter who you wanna nam get cought by linbacker.
The Hardest thing for some men to do is .... Believe what they see!
Coach Shotty prefers to keep his explosive players on the bench
Cuz he doesn’t want them to a-splode on the field! Good grief! That wud be dangerous to the other team, the referees, good gosh even the ball boy!
Proud to root for the Jets, Mets, and Islanders!!!
Twitter: cmauceri524
Bart Scott: "I’m sure now there will be something written about how the Jets are back, and we won’t listen to that either, because at the end of the day we know that you guys don’t know what the hell you’re talking about."
by CharlieIsles on Dec 28, 2011 11:17 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Schotty's...
… “Prevent Offense” has been working well for 7 years, why change it? The promotion of B. Callahan to O.C. would only improve the “entire team”. The O-Line is the heart and soul of this franchise and although it may lack talent, the unit sends players to the Pro-Bowl every year since he arrived(multiple). This season 2/3 rds of the starters come from the O-line, when you add the alternates half of the players 3/6 are O-Linemen. Bill Callahan maximizes the talent at his disposal just like Rex Ryan does with the defense. Imagine having an explosive offense that could run when needed and pass when needed as that is what Bill Callahan will bring to the offense. The Quicker this move is made, the better off this football team will be!
by keith.beckett2 on Dec 29, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
John B you have said it many times about Holmes being open and Sanchez not getting him the ball
Since I don’t go to games, I don’t see what you probably see over and over. What I see is a receiver that hardly seems open. I see a receiver that doesn’t play hard. I see a receiver that is careless with the ball. With that said, I think Holmes has lost interest in this offense and his QB. The Jets receivers run probably the most boring and easy covered routes in football. I’m not defending Sanchez, however, there’s a reason he holds the ball so long. That reason seems like no one is ever open.
by BIG OH!!!!! on Dec 28, 2011 11:28 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Big OH..a retired player who happens too be a TOP Notch QB in his days had this too say
Steve Young was asked a question pertaining to Sanchez playing, and he made known that the #1 fault He see;s in Sanchez is that He FAILS too keep His eyes on HIS rec;s, that He has a tendency to look down at His feet and when He does look back up field at His REc;s they are now well covered…thus why he throws either a overthrown pass or a under-thrown ball..By time he does see HIS rec;s he is now facing a pass rush I mean a OL can only give there QB so many sec;s of time b/4 all falls apart…so by time Sanchez decides to step-up into the pocket it isnt there..sure Sanchez is good at those roll-outs BUT He also isnt a scrambling QB either!!!
He also mentioned that Sanchez still fails to correctly READ a DEF Coverage thus the pick-6;s..1 game in particular SANCHEZ even admitted during post game that “Ya I saw He(rec) was well covered But still threw him the ball”..right there is further proof that Sanchez locks onto 1 rec, and doesnt seek His “OUT-MAN” in those situations!!!!
these error;s are Not the OC’s fault those are all on the QB!!!!
Are they?
Steve Young is identifying the problems. Is the OC? Also, if we staff identified those problems and they weren’t being corrected, why is Brunel our only option?
Drafting a guy who entered the draft early with virtually no college experience was dumb. Drafting that guy and throwing him to the lions from day one was dumber. Putting him in the hands of a baboon posing as an OC is about as dumb as it gets.
The whole Sanchez fiasco is primarily the product of the above. We actually TRADED UP for a guy that should never have entered the draft so early and allowed him to be molded by one of the most talentless OCs in the league.
I worry that he’s damaged goods at this point but I keep feeling like if we dump him, we’re gonna end up crying about it.
by cult hero on Dec 28, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Sanchez has...
… had his moments and has proven to be a “Winner” in his short time here. How many Q.B.‘s has this franchise had in the past have done better in their first three years? How many in the NFL?
I am in agreement that M. Sanchez can do better, he obviously lacks confidence. With his record he should elude confidence. This year he has faced the most pressure and taken more hits but still has improved statistically. The problems with his mechanics stem from his lack of coaching. He is tough and durable and can make the throws, I wonder how A. Rodgers would look if he was thrown to the wolves in Schotty’s “Prevent Offensive Scheme”?
by keith.beckett2 on Dec 29, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Sanchez is that He FAILS too keep His eyes on HIS rec;s,
That’s funny I thought the biggest complaint was that Sanchez stares his receivers down. Which one is it?
I don’t understand how everyone thought the Sanchez and his offense was going to be better with an Oline we knew was suspect in the preseason, 48 year old Plax trotting down the field and Schotty still calling plays.
"Burress telling Cason to hold his dick 3 times was awesome" -J-Nasty
I think its probably both
sanchez really locks onto guys, specifically keller, and just tries to force them the ball, but when the play goes to shit, he tries to find room in/out of the pocket without looking downfield.
Watch a saints game, drew brees is probably the best qb in the nfl at keeping his eyes down field and hitting the open receiver, it looks like he’s oblivious to the pressure around him until he sees that tiny hole where he can fit the ball in
I think sanchez is actually very good at avoiding pressure, just this season at times it seemed like he was expecting it, and rather than anticipating how the receivers or db’s would move, he’d anticipate the linemen and how he could avoid them. Having a weak oline this year certainly hurt his ability to look down field, but its something he simply wasn’t good at this year, regardless of oline play.
I really like sanchez’s attitude and work ethic, i hope he can turn it around next year, but i really think there is something to the idea that a QB can make WR’s explosive. Going back to the brees example, who had heard of half of his receivers when he got to the saints, and now they are considered one of the most explosive wr cores in the entire league.
by GreeneEggsAndHam on Dec 28, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
The big diff btw plax and edwards is that while edwards stretches the field with long plays, plax is a touchdown creating machine, while edwards doesnt have the same tenacity as plax in the red zone
by servantofchrist on Dec 28, 2011 11:30 AM EST reply actions
doesn't have the same tenacity?
you’re going to say that about a guy that dragged two defenders with him into the end zone?
by PowerBar on Dec 28, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Two Pro Bowl bound defenders.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
by jetsbill on Dec 28, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They both (PLax & Braylon) have different abilties in similar body types
Bray is more of a virtical guy but has the case of the drops more than Plax does
Plax better shields the ball over the middle
but as far as touchdowns Plax is the guy ! …..
That catch on the “best corner in the NFL” in the left corner of the endzone agianst the eagles was so unbelievable that the ref thought it was no way he cought that ball in bounds until they showed the replay.
Plax probaly has the most special catches I seen by a jet since Wayne.
The Hardest thing for some men to do is .... Believe what they see!
by Benz Zito on Dec 28, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I completely disagree with Plax shielding the ball better over the middle.
Every time Plax catches a ball over the middle, he almost immediately falls to the ground. Edwards was the best slant reciever this team has had in years, and when he ran it, he boxed out the defender and protected the ball while looking for a hit. Plax is suppose to be a jump ball receiver, but his best plays of the year have been him diving instead of jumping. And he made a great play against the Eagles and kept his feet in bounds, and then couldn’t manage to keep his feet in bounds against the Giants. Plax is too old and slow, and it was a mistake for the Jets to let Edwards walk and sign Plaxico. the biggest issue i havre with the change in reciever is the drop in big play production. This year, the Jets have exactly 2 plays that have gone for over 40 yards, and one of them was a screen to a RB. that mean… In 15 games, the WR’s have managed to catch ONE pass that went for over 40 yards.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
by jetsbill on Dec 28, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I say...
… losing B. Edwards also hurt M. Sanchez as any team that can cover a T.E. and the slant can now shut the Jets down as far as passing goes. More adversity for the young QB to handle in Shotty’s Prevent Offense(B.S.=P.O).
Promote Bill Callahan A.S.A.P.; or the Jets Offense will get worse(imagine that); it would go from bi-polar to just depressing.
by keith.beckett2 on Dec 29, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
you must have forgotten
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwnf95DHiRQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56XCi2nII6g&feature=fvwrel
When we get that production out of Plax, then you can tell me Plax is the guy.
Plax isnt the same as he once was
but he can catch if you throw him the ball in his area…!
The Hardest thing for some men to do is .... Believe what they see!
by Benz Zito on Dec 28, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He also...
… may just get better as he did have a 2 year hiatus where he lacked wear and tear to his body. The SF(Schotty Factor) must be considered too, not to mention he was not exactly in football shape from the start.
I say see how he performs next year with B. Callahan at O.C. as well as signing B. Edwards too. This Offense would be an O.T. and T.E. away from being top 10(something Schotty has failed to do in 7 straight seasons).
by keith.beckett2 on Dec 29, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
edwards
had one dropped pass last year with the jets.
by GreeneEggsAndHam on Dec 28, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
what are you a troll
What the @#$% you mean on the best corner in the NFL.
by BIG OH!!!!! on Dec 28, 2011 4:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I put it in quotations for that reason
I know you the best corner in the NFL is … hes my favorite player .
It was ment to be sarcastic you brainiac!
Revis and the Jets recruited him by constantly calling him that to I guess flatter him.
The Hardest thing for some men to do is .... Believe what they see!
just be careful, those are fighting words, I'll find you
by BIG OH!!!!! on Dec 28, 2011 8:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
nah don't kill nobody killer
I know Revis is the man ….. Defensive player of the year coming.
The Hardest thing for some men to do is .... Believe what they see!
by Benz Zito on Dec 28, 2011 10:32 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions 1 recs
Trust
I get the feeling Schotty trusts LDT a lot more than he does McKnight and that’s probably why he isn’t used much.
"Burress telling Cason to hold his dick 3 times was awesome" -J-Nasty
I agree with Costello
We have guys like McKnight and Holmes who have the ability to make some big plays, but as far as true game breakers go, I think the closest thing we’ve had to one in the past 5 years was Leon.
by J-Nasty on Dec 28, 2011 11:32 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Though I don't know if I would put Cruz in that category either
by J-Nasty on Dec 28, 2011 11:37 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Cruz is tied for second in the league in receiving plays of 40+ yards
including a 74, a 68, a 72, and a 99 yarder – all for TD’s. not to mention he’s 3rd in the league in yards. if that’s not considered a game breaker, what is?
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
by wilddre22 on Dec 28, 2011 8:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Holmes is explosive
but he has been a poor player this year. He has dropped more passes than you would expect from a guy known for having good hands. He has had issues with fumbles (should have had his second one in a row this week), and most importantly he really has not been running good routes. Holmes biggest strength is route running and quickness. When he first came to the Jets last year, it was stunning to watch him in preseason-the sharpness of his routes were amazing and eye-catching. Over the last 8 games I have focused on him each play on offense, and it really looks like he is not trying half the time. Gives up before plays are over, rounded cuts, bad body language…
There really is blame to go all around here:
A)The offensive line has had its worst season since perhaps 2007. As much as we talk about sanchez’ lack of pocket awareness, his sack % has gone from 5.1 to 6.7 and his 37 sacks against are (I think) 3rd most in the league. last year he was only sacked 27 times.
B)The line has also been a poor run blocking unit by its own standards. Brick is rated below average, Mangold and Moore have battled injuries and Hunter blows.
C)We have little in the way of WR threats. Despite Holmes’ bad play this year, he is often double-teamed anyway. Burress is slow and a horrible route runner. He is just not a reliable target outside of the redzone anymore. Kerley shows promise but is a rookie. Keller has been decent-but he is not the 6-6 type of target that Brady has in Gronkowski or Brees has in Graham.
D)Greene is a good power back but he is far from a complete threat as an RB. he is not explosive and is not a good pass catcher or blocker in the passing downs.
Then we come to Schotty and the poor use of what we do have. I agree that McKnight is talented. Still he has battled injury lately and it is hard to know what we really have in him. You have mentioned Leon Washington in the past, but little Leon was a more known quantity from the beginning. Washington had 150 carries alone in his rookie year (to go along with 25 catches) and by 2008 had 47 catches, 448 rushing yards (for a massive 5.9 YPC) to go along with his return game. Can McKnight do this? I have no idea still.
I feel that the offense is fail all around. Imagine if we did not have our lucky red-zone numbers? The total inability to even try to stretch the field is on Schotty and our receivers more than Mark. In his first 2 years Mark threw a bunch of successful bombs to Edwards (I can think of at least 6 with 2 more that Edwards dropped). Teams pretty much have 10 guys within 12 yards of the line on all downs this year-which makes it hard to do anything. Given that Schotty and Mark have (together) stretched the field much more in 2009-2010, what does that tell you about our receiving corps this year? We have a undeveloped (and perhaps ruined) young QB, an average at best corps of receivers and RB, a lame OC and an underperforming line. There really is blame to go all around.
by Buzzy on Dec 28, 2011 11:33 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Completely agree with everything you wrote Buzzy
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
Buzzy you can say that about a lot of other teams in the league but
when you have a strong leader with some accuracy you can overcome a lot of those weaknesses …Im gonna least a couple of the most glaring ones …..
1.Mathew Stafford is overcoming a multitude of weak spots- the nonexisting run game or a very leaky Def .
2. Eli Mannig has a slew of weak links to overcome- Recievers that constantly drop passes and a defensive secondary that couldnt stop runny nose…( oh except the Jets offence, held the Jets to there season low on points allowed)
3.Tom Brady – do I need to list the average players and the non probowlers they have (they even over came Ocho cinco)?
4.Aaron Rodgers -Just look at what I put for stafford .
5. Drew Brees ,I know he just broke the passing yardage record – But can they win outdoors consistantly that defence aint the worth much without the crowd noise helping them.
6.Andy Dalton has been a rock in a whirlwind of circumstances-He had the rookie excuse in the bag , the new system excuse in the bag , the horribly ran organization , the Steelers and the Ravens …..
guess what …. we dont have that!
The Hardest thing for some men to do is .... Believe what they see!
I don't agree.
1.Stafford has much better receiving talent on his offense. it is not even close. It is true they have a bad run game but his like has done a good job this year protecting him. I don’t know what a leaky Def. is, but if you mean defense it is:
a)not true.
b)that has nothing to do with offense and thus should be disregarded.
2.Eli sucked until he was much older than Mark (27). In addition until this year they had a wonderful running attack, and he has some real weapons in Nicks, Cruz, Manningham, Hixon 9when healthy), Ballard…it is not like the Giants are even a better team than us anyway. sure they beat us, but with 11 first downs and 13 minutes less of possession. The giants are a team that has more points against than for on the year, so they are no shining example of anything.
3.The patriots have more talented players on offense unless you think that Gronkowski, Hernandez, Welker and a mult-talented O-line are all products of Brady. Plus they have Brady, and he certainly is talented at the single most important position in football.
4.See 3.
5.See 4.
6.The Bengals are a crappy team with by far the worst strength of schedule victories of any possibly playoff bound team in the AFC. That is why we have a tiebreaker over them. Dalton seems fine but it is too early to really know (see Josh Freeman last year).
So-I don’t really agree.
by Buzzy on Dec 28, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Your point makes my point!
.But you guys keep trying to make the “Sanchez dont have talent around him” arguement wich is Highly debatable as you can see, me personally thinks its desrespectfull to players who have produced at a high level for good stretches in there careers or even some of our good players who came in ready this year but are looked at as garbage all of a sudden….
My point was every team has flaws agian I said A LOT OF TEAMS can “say” what your saying about my team, but for some reason some of them are looked at differently and I feel its because they have Strong leaders who can throw , no matter the flaws of the OC or head coach (Marvin Lewis ,Tom Coughlin, Jim Schwartz are not better than Rex) these QBs exploit the STRENGTH of there WRs or exploit the chemistry between them and there tightends…
if he cant do that then Hey I’ll take the simple things that can help a team like not fumbling the ball when your team is deep in your own territory, is that asking for to much? Or can he not lead the league in pick sixes or fumbles returns from that position I guess that would require never getting sacked and having bill walsh as th OC and Megatron with Gronk and a great posession reciever like DEON BRANCH ( laughable!) to have a winning season .
………………. Bottom line !! ……………………… ….
If we need all these thing in all these areas then were in trouble for a long time.
Yall seem to think that an OC can fix Right Tackle, safties, linbackers ,WRs, Left guards,Punt returners , Runningbacks , and whatever else yall make into an issue ….I dont know where your getting half of that in the off season!
all Im saying is I believe you look around the NFL its the QB that can cover up multiple weaknesses and WE DONT GOT THAT QB.
The Hardest thing for some men to do is .... Believe what they see!
it was a salary cap for a couple of seasons , its harder these days parity baby
Unless you got the right QB then your above the yearly sideline critics damning your organization….. everybody feels good .
I remember that feeling it was just a year and a half ago .
The Hardest thing for some men to do is .... Believe what they see!
You should read what I said.
Sanchez is most certainly part of the problem. Sanchez is a below average QB so that is the biggest part of the problem. The root causes of his problems however go beyond his own talent. They are some combination of his own limitations, the players around him, and an inability of the coaching staff to instruct properly and design an offense. From Steve Young to Matt Schaub, NFL history is filled with guys that looked like nothing much until put in the right place, so you cannot say it Sanchez and not those around him-these things are complex and all factors non-linearly amplify the issues.
by Buzzy on Dec 28, 2011 7:01 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
"M. Sanchez...
… is not the problem" and those words come from P.Simms and Boomer. Even J. Namath has stated that he has seen growth from M.Sanchez. He is the best available choice at this point and is higher ranked at QB than any Off. Cat.(Rush/Pass/Team). He has proven he can win in the post season. I cant see how any of us could not see that with a poor O.C/QB Coach, that his growth is being stunted. The increased pressure he faced this year(he may be playing hurt?) will help him next year if he gets through one more game. Give the man a chance with a decent O.C./QB Coach and see what happens. I am all for B.C. @ O.C. and then watch him bring in T.S. to coach the O-Line. M. Sanchez may be a Pro-Bowl caliber QB, and all this B.S.(P.O.) will have been forgotten. Rex Ryan’s Defense rises to the top again and his Super Bowl Prediction/Promise comes to fruition. My how quickly we forget when the team loses a plethora of it’s offensive players and go 9-7 or 8-8 at the worst? At least the problems can be fixed quickly as they are so glaring, the salaries of certain overpaid players can also be restructured to help fill the holes, and the team is 8+ mil. under the cap already;)
by keith.beckett2 on Dec 29, 2011 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
Sanchez' growth is a mirage
league average passing numbers are up all around the NFL-so his modestly improved passer rating is actually lower ranked relative to the league than last year. Further, he has faced worse passing defense this year under far better field conditions. Lastly whatever improvement you see in numbers (mostly TD/INT ratio) is likely not repeatable-see below in the discussion of redzone performance.
That does not mean at all that there is not hope for Mark. It is true the talent around him took a bit of a step back this year, and he is still young and inexperienced, and has shown real flashes. My hope is simply that getting rid of Cavanaugh/Schottenheimer has a tangible positive effect on his progress.
its desrespectfull to players who have produced at a high level for good stretches in there careers or even some of our good players who came in ready this year but are looked at as garbage all of a sudden
just wondering who you think came in ready this year ? the only 2 i can think of is revis and wilson . homles didn’t bother his arse getting to jets west so you can’t say he was as ready as he could have been . plax was still a FA .
so in my eyes that hampered sanchez b4 the season even started .
and i’m also waiting for keller to produce at that high level .
so in essence you seem on the side of guys who did very little to prepare sanchez for the season which contradicts your argument
if its for you it won't pass you
by tinley24 on Dec 28, 2011 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
what does less first downs and TOP mean?
many games every week are won with less TOP and/or less first downs. the only thing that matters is who had more points at the end of 60 minutes. that decides who’s better than who.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
I think it means
We both suck, and Schottenheimer’s “ball control short passing game” doesn’t fucking work!!!!
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
A team that wins a game
with 11 first downs, a QB who goes 9/27, and 13 minutes less possession time is generally not the better team and a 5 year old knows that the better team doesn’t always win (hence the cliche “any given Sunday.”). The Giants won that game due to incredible ineptitude on the part of the Jets (a missed 44 yard FG, a horrible single defensive play on a 3rd and 10 from the 1, and the worst offensive play calling in history). As bad as the Jets are/were (and they are not good), the Giants are worse. It is great that for you that they won, but if that game is played 100 times the Giants win 40% of them. They are worse than the Jets-in fact as I said they have a negative point differential on the year-is that the sign of a team that has a winning record? If so-show me how many teams a year do that (e.g. winning record/negative PD). There are a very small handful each year.
by Buzzy on Dec 28, 2011 10:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
we can trade stats as to how bad both teams have played
and i know how bad they both have, because i do openly root for both(altho i’m Giants first). none of that matters. what matters is, two teams with almost identical records on a neutral field played Saturday, and the blue team won. your made up percentage(40%) means nothing as there’s no statistical data to back that up; that’s your bravado talking. IMHO, with Sanchez at the helm, you’re not beating an avg. to above avg. NY Giants team. he’s just not that good; not accurate enough, and prone to make mistakes at the worst possible times. that is no formula for beating anyone 60% of the time.
missed FGs happen every Sunday….so do bad defensive plays….and hey, God didn’t break the mold on bad OCs when he made Schotty. fact of the matter is, better teams overcome mistakes. we did. we overcame 9 completions, and 11 first downs. and it wasn’t close at the end. so yeah, on any given Sunday, i’ll take my chances on that match up against Sanchez.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
Of course I made up that %age
do you think anyone can perform that experiment ;-)? it is just a guess statement of:
a)All statistics we know about both teams (e.g. Pythagorean record, SRS, DVOA…) that basically say the Giants are a tad worse than the Jets (and neither is very good).
b)What I saw Saturday. I mean be honest-that was pretty lopsided in terms of play-to-play skill. The Giants won but they really looked like the worse team for large swaths of that game.
I hate when fans say “the only thing that matters is who wins”-No shit. That totally misses the point. What I am saying is that DESPITE WINNING the Giants are not a good team, and are at best no better than the Jets. This is what is relevant to Benz Zito’s original comment. he is acting like, “gee, if only the Jets could be as good as the Giants.” The Giants blow, so that is not a useful comparison. (And just for reference, I have nothing against the Giants, and aslo root for them when it does not affect the Jets).
The "Elite"...
… Eli Manning was 9/27, and the 99 yd TD looked far better than the 11 yd completion to V. Cruz(88 YAC)indicated as it was his move that made the play. The momentum shifted at that point, and Folks missed FG before the half did keep the Jets team from evening up the score after moving the ball downfield.
The Giants had 6 yds rushing in the entire first half. The Jets opened the game with a 3 and out by the defense after deferring. On the Jets opening drive that led to a TD pass, little did we know there would be no more points scored by “Gang Green” until the final quarter. With a 20-7 deficit and over 10 minutes remaining the football game turned ugly for both teams. A 4 time Pro-Bowl Center botches the snap at the 1 yd. line, A Super Bowl MVP WR gets flagged for pushing off on a perfectly thrown pass, reversing a TD. After burning up more time on the clock, M. Sanchez eventually ran the ball in cutting the deficit to 6 @ 20-14.
The Jets found themselves with a shot to get the “W” once again, it has happened often enough. Out of the 31 victories in the past 2 plus seasons since M. Sanchez has been at the helm of “Schotty’s” prevent scoring offense, 10 of the "W"’s have been come from behind 4th quarter or in O.T. games(about as clutch as it gets in the NFL).
The Game came down to this drive, with about 5 minutes remaining and The Jets with good field position. The prevent offense goes to work. The Jets had dominated T.O.P. and the Giants had their ears pinned back expecting pass as the team abandoned the run, Sanchez had taken his share of licks for the day. It’s a one score game mind you and first down. Ground and Pound right? Wrong, three consecutive pass plays. The result was Giants ball and that was the final straw. The game was close at the end, do not let the garbage time points fool you. We will never know how different the outcome would have been had the O.C. decided to try to run the ball at that point.
1 missed FG and 1 poor defensive play in the first half and the outcome is different. I see the Giants as an average team who needed to win the game more than the Jets and beat the better team. M. Sanchez had as many completions (27) as E. Manning had attempts. Sanchez was not sharp but clearly outplayed his counterpart. Sanchez had dropped passes and ear holed DK(accurately) ending the ugly contest with a completion % of 50. E. Manning’s face started to get the same look as T. Coughlan as he was 9-27 ( completion percentage of 33). Then as the marathon game comes to an end, one Giant’s player gets into the Jets H.C.’s face and wages a personal attack to boot showing an utter lack of respect and class.
This may have been the worst football game of the year between two teams with so much at stake. R. R. and M. S. will not throw their O.C. under the Bus, but I sure as hell will. This is another loss where the offense played “prevent scoring” . B. Schottenheimer should be fired for his total lack of success in seven years. Head Coaches are not given that long to turn things around, so why is he different?
by keith.beckett2 on Dec 29, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
Use Extreme Caution...
… As you continue this thread, beware of the “TROLLS” who are here to incite problems. The choice is yours, but your character may be attacked as they have different reasons for being here than we do.
by keith.beckett2 on Dec 30, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
Benz....
If you are saying that Mark is NOT Stafford / Eli / Brady / Rodgers / Brees…..yes, you are correct. (Dalton, we will see).
I know he will never ever be those guys. I’d like for him to play more like a game manager then a gunslinger.
Proud to root for the Jets, Mets, and Islanders!!!
Twitter: cmauceri524
Bart Scott: "I’m sure now there will be something written about how the Jets are back, and we won’t listen to that either, because at the end of the day we know that you guys don’t know what the hell you’re talking about."
by CharlieIsles on Dec 28, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
Different Teams = Different Circumstances
1. With Matt Stafford you have a player who has the top reciever in the game drawing double coverages which leaves the whole field open. I’ve seen Lions games where Stafford basically threw the ball up in the air and just let Calvin Johnson make a play. Two weeks ago when the Lions were losing to the Raiders and were pinned at their own 2 yard line, Stafford drove the length of the field throwing to only Calvin Johnson. Out of the 98 yards they covered, 74 were a result of three huge Calvin Johnson plays. The other 20 yards was a passing interference call on the Raiders secondary. When you have a WR of his caliber its always a distinct advantage. Look at Culpepper without Randy Moss, his numbers were atrocious. Needless to say, the Lions have other great receivers like Brandon Pettigrew and Scheffler at tight end. They also have Burelson and Titus Young.
2. The drops by Eli Mannings receivers are way too exagerrated. Eli has 6 touchdowns of 40 or more yards to Victor Cruz. It might be more actually, I checked a few weeks ago. Just like last week, Cruz makes all those plays. There were several ocassions in the Pats Giants game where Manning just carelessly threw the ball up for grabs and allowed his receivers to make the plays. Just talk to any Pats fans. They are still fuming those balls weren’t being picked off because Manning was clearly back pedaling and throwing off his back foot. On the long TD’s to Cruz, Eli doesn’t even deserve most of the credit. A lot of the times, they are average throws and easy reads considering hes coming off the slot against the opposing teams 3rd corner or safety. Did you not see the 2nd half of the Giants Jets game. After the middle of the 3rd quarter, Revis was on Cruz most of the time and Manning couldn’t do a single thing. He kept on throwing the ball in the wrong direction and making bad reads. Eli can make those throws outside the numbers as good as anyone, but hes been a product of his receivers more than any QB in the league.
3. You’re saying Tom Brady’s weapons are just average? What are the Jets weapons then? Deion Branch is a great possesion receiver that the Jets lost in someone like Cotchery. Wes Welker usually plays the slot, but is the leading receiver in football from that spot! I highly doubt any current Jet could do that in New England. Rob Gronkowski is a super beast at 6 foot 7 with crazy speed. Hes a 2nd year player that has broken the TD record for tight ends and could very well break the receiving TDs record when its all said and done. Aaron Hernandez is a Dustin Keller clown who is slightly more consistent. Please don’t tell me Brady is doing it with a bunch of no names. Even if he was, Brady has been in playing football for over 10 seasons. There is no reason why he shouldn’t make those around him better. He wasn’t this type of player until 2007 – his 8th year in the league.
4. Comparing Sanchez to Aaron Rodgers is kind of unfair. Rodgers has been under his current system for over 6 seasons with no coaching changes. The personel has remained the same, and the OC has tailored the offense to his strengths.
5. Brees is amazing indoors but outdoors he is pedestrian. He currently has 29 TDs and 5 INTs indoors. He has 12 TDs and 9 INTs outdoors. Thats a significant difference. I don’t think there is a single QB in the league as bipolar as him.
6. Andy Daltons numbers aren’t lights out. I understand hes a rookie but Sanchez has more TDs despite not having a single receiver like AJ Green. Green was the biggest WR prospect since Calvin Johnson, which is pretty huge if you consider Crabtree and Dez Bryant were both some pretty big prospects. Jerome Simpson and Jermaine Gresham aren’t too bad either and they continue to get better. The same can’t be said about the Jets receivers who have likely peaked and are regressing. Also, despite being a rookie, Andy Dalton is only a year younger than Sanchez. Dalton also started most of his college career.
The thing about your list is
You didn’t mention o-line as a weakness the other QBs had to overcome.
by BIG OH!!!!! on Dec 28, 2011 4:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If Cruz gets tackled, no one talks about him that game. 3 guys missed him.
by dawg1331 on Dec 28, 2011 11:53 AM EST via mobile reply actions
yeah he didn't just pop up on the scene last week
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
Normally I'd agree
but that play would have just been a first down if the Jets had any tackling ability. He did nothing to make the last two guys miss, they just blew it.
Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
GangGreenNation.com
by Bro Namath on Dec 29, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think they miss Brad Smith who gave match up problems out of backfield or split as another WR and was a real threat to throw out of wildcat though he rarely did so. Rather have him than Turner.
That reminds me of another weird thing about the game with the Giants
for the 2 games previous they used the Wildcat with Greene and Kerley. While I don’t get why it worked, it was somewhat successful. Why was it not used one time in the Giants game??
Sanchez has flaws but,
I don’t think it is fair to say he can’t avoid a rush. This season hasn’t been great, but we know he can keep a play alive and avoid rushers. I wouldn’t want to step up in the pocket with the protection on the right as it is. Guys get clean through Hunter on the inside and outside so why step up. Mark is agile enough to break a defender or two so I trust him to keep a play alive.
One other problem about Sanchez is that his delivery
He isn’t hitting receivers in stride so that they can make an explosive play. When he gets them the ball, it doesn’t seem to be placed for the catch and run.
"I just build our guys up. If it's trash talking that I believe in our football team, then, yes, I agree with that statement. I'm the biggest trash talker there is." Rex Ryan
by OldJetsFanatic on Dec 28, 2011 12:01 PM EST reply actions
he also doesnt "lead" his rec;s either
as 1 person posted awhile back Sanchez throws basically a FLAT-BALL, where-as most other QB;s tend to throw a ball that has a ARCH effect.those with this Arch are usually balls that Only the Rec can catch….also I have seen alot of His long ball throws have a flutter-wobbling look …I also think he needs a QB behind Him pushing Him, I mean Brunell is basically a bench warmer at best..If Sanchez had another QB “pushing” him I think that would make for a better performance from him!!! then maybe those pick-6;s would all but leave, for if Having a decent backup on sidelines and he isnt moving the Ball, He knows he can be Replaced in Game and right Now jets dont have that “pushing factor”
So you really think Sanchez has bad games because there's no Back up QB?
This is New York. If there was a backup QB that was even remotely as good as Sanchez it would just create a QB controversy and it would be bad for the team all together. If you’re going to replace Sanchez just replace him and don’t F around.
The whole idea of a backup QB pushing a starter to be better is BS. Sanchez needs better offensive coaching. Imagine if the only pro football coaches you’ve ever had were Schottenheimer and Cavanaugh????
by GangGreen73 on Dec 28, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Holmes hasn't done much even when he does get the ball
I remember when he tripped over his own feet on the first drive against New England on a play he probably would have scored on. I really can’t think of one time he has broken a tackle all year.
I agree on the rest.
Oh yes that's right, I'm a Jets fan.
by Bob_The_Friendly_Baker on Dec 28, 2011 12:31 PM EST reply actions
I wish I could watch game film.
I think I’d have a better idea of how often Holmes, Plax, and Keller find themselves open.
Darrelle Revis once won a game of Connect Four in three moves.
A Ferrari is nothing but a car in the hands of a bus driver
Competent OC, then we will see.
Formerly known as "GangGrizzle".
by B.Rush on Dec 28, 2011 1:16 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions 1 recs
FINALLY!
Finally, a post that is accurate and crystal-clear as to one of the Jets’ weakness: the QB. Very much more often than not, you see Sanchez overthrow, under-throw, throw-behind, throw-in front of the receiver. How often do you see Sanchez hit the receiver on the run, enabling the receiver to gain YAC? Very seldom. Sanchez’s accuracy is poor. Hitting Holmes or Keller in stride is also often unseen, not allowing them to gain more yardage.
Sanchez’s throws to his RB’s are especially poor. You see him hit LT or Greene behind them or at their feet, taking away any potential angles or precious milliseconds for the RB to regain speed or juke the LB’s or Safeties. Those throws are especially nerve-racking in third-down situations when the RB’s come up a yard or two short of the first down marker. Another example are the screens that fail because the throw is behind the RB.
But, the most glaring weakness Sanchez has is consistency or, rather, the lack of consistency. Each of us holds our breath when he goes back to pass. We have no idea what’s coming — a good completion, a bad completion, an interception, a sack. Each of us finds ourselves screaming at the TV, saying “Throw it away! Throw it away!”. Last week’s game showed at least three occasions we screamed, no? And, the safety was the perfect example of Sanchez’s consistency relative to situational awareness. Sometimes he’s ‘aware’. Other times, we sit back and wonder what-the-hell-was-he-thinking????
Sanchez has ‘flat-lined’, so to speak. He has not progressed at all, in his third year. I could say he’s actually regressed. But, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and say “not progressed”. He has two more years to go on his contract. So, the front-office remains invested in him. But, they must be asking the same questions we are: “Is he the Sanchise?”. And, I believe, they’re answering “No”.
Management needs to dump Brunell and bring in a certified QB to either backup Sanchez or, at least, push him to perform. At the same time, they really need to evaluate McElroy. McElroy did show potential but that was only pre-season. They need to give him more playing time with the first unit the next two years to see what they have. If Sanchez fails to perform or goes down, then what?
I pray the Jets don’t go into 2012 standing pat with our QB situation. If Sanchez under-performs in the first 3-4 games, they’ll have to make a switch. Otherwise, 2012 will be lost, from an Offensive standpoint. Before this season started, I projected an 8-8 or, at best, 9-7 record. Didn’t want to but their schedule and talent pool forced the forecast. I don’t know what next season’s schedule is but New England’s New England, Buffalo should be improved, as should Miami. Those are six games. Will the record be 4-2 or 3-3? It’ll depend on the Jets Offense in which, right now, none of us have any confidence. And, that lack of confidence must center around the QB as much as the OC.
Sanchise?
I am not usually a stat guy but I have to call on the fact that Sanchez has thrown 24 td passes with 15 int, compare that to Big Ben at 22 and 14 or Flacco with 19 and 12(or about 5 other winning QB’s) and he is comparable if not better. These two teams are having great success with zero mention of any QB defficiency let alone a call for their jobs. We were part of this same class the last 2 years and had a philosophy much like Baltimore that was conducive to our success. To me, while Sanchez has obviouslly not risen to an elite level, he does not deserve to soley bare the avalanche of hatred that he is under right now. Rex’s beloved D-fense is simply not even close to what it used to be, along with the run game and even our once elite special teams. Am I crazy to feel slighty defensive of him still and to think he is only 1/4 or even less of the overall problem this year? If you plug in for example Flacco or Alex Smith is this suddenly a 12 win team?.
by Jetkid13 on Dec 28, 2011 1:30 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
By any other measure
however he is clearly worse. His red zone play (and thus TDs) have improved a lot but I am suspicious this is a fluke/fluctuation. His other numbers are basically the same (or in some cases like fumbles worse). he has also played a selection of the most porous defenses in the league in the best conditions you can find (last year played in 6 horrible weather games). thus overall it is fair to worry. It does not mean it is all his fault, but he has certainly not progressed in any reliable way in my mind.
I wouldn't put too much into red zone efficiency
That has more to do with playcalling than anything else. Would probably be even better if we had an OC that saw how tall Edwards and Plaxico are and was aware of their ability to jump. I’m sure you remember the playcalling against the Steelers on the goalline in the playoffs last year.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
by jetsbill on Dec 28, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It also may not be repeatable
when you look year-to-year the best redzone QBs are the best QBs. What looks worrying to me about Mark in the RZ is that his completion percentage is awful, but his TD/INT ratio is good. That means it is either a fluke or as you say they have mixed it up better there.
by Buzzy on Dec 28, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would bet you that the other QB's have an OC that uses their weapons.
We all know that our’s doesn’t. My main issue with Schottenheimer is that he doesn’t trust his guys to simply beat their guys. He’s always trying to find some gimmic or trick that will get his guys open, instead of just letting them use their god given talent. When Plax was on the Giants in 07, if they were inside the 10, you knew the fade to Plaxico was coming. Everyone in the stadium knew it was coming, and they still did it, and it worked.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
by jetsbill on Dec 28, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think Shotty is perhaps the biggest culpret
but I think this is not an overly talented offense to begin with-with the biggest talent to be found on the O-line. Plax is 5 years older now and 20% of his catches have been TDs so it is not like he hasn’t been used in typical Plax situations. The biggest problem with the offense anywhere on the field is the inability of our QB-receiver combo to be in anyway efficient in terms of both completion percentage and overall accuracy. Sanchez is not accurate, the play calling is bad and our receivers are not great so what does one expect? I would like Schottenheimer to be gone not just because I don’t like the offense, but because we will never know about mark unless we clean shop. In fact, in some alternate universe if we simply got rid of Cavanaugh would could perhaps see dividends even with Schotty (although he still is infuriating).
the big difference i notice between Braylon and Plax
Is that Plax doesn’t seem to play like the ball is his. He doesn’t go get it! Braylon seemed to always play as if the ball was his, and he was going to get it. Honestly… Plax just looks lazy.
I would love to dump schottinheimer and Cavanaugh, then give Callahan the OC job, and bring in Pennington as a QB coach. I would even look to Mawae to be the O-line coach.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
by jetsbill on Dec 28, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
My problem(s) with Callahan
a)the line has really been bad this year. As a teacher I can credit him with Slauson but not much else. Ducasse has seemingly been resistant to coaching and Hunter has not improved one bit. Brick as been bad-if not for being the least penalized LT in the game he would be below average on the year I think according to PFF. This just makes me feel not sure of him, despite his recent successes here.
b)I assume that he has input already. If he is adding his 2 cents on Sanchez (as he should) and on the offense as a whole it is not helping too much.
Don’t know what to think about him. He also hasn’t OCed in a decade-the game has changed a bit. Maybe not the worst choice, but would make me worry a bit. I really think bringing in a Clements-type QB guy is a must.
by Buzzy on Dec 28, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think Ducasse lost valuable time during the lockout.
I think we’ll see vlad progress more later. At least he’s gotten on the field this year.
by jets4life24 on Dec 28, 2011 2:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Okay let's be realistic here
I like Sanchez but he isn’t close to Ben’s level. Maybe he’ll get there, maybe he won’t….who knows.
"Burress telling Cason to hold his dick 3 times was awesome" -J-Nasty
not my point
He is clearly not anywhere near Big Ben, I am just trying to make the point that if in Flacco’s third year the Ravens defense dropped 15 spots, and he suddenly became a QB who throws 59 times like sanchez did last week the results would be the same or probably worse.
Jerricho Cotchery
He was our explosive player.
he was clutch
Steelers are starting to realize that. Which is scary
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
Sorta Off Topic But No Braylon Edwards
TheJetsStream Manish Mehta
Rex says Jets will elevate Ricky Sapp from the practice squad to the active roster. #nyj
35 seconds ago
King Kong Ain't Got Shit On Me- Denzel Washington
I got the shotgun. You got the briefcase. It's all in the game though, right? - Omar Little
I'd like to see this guy get after it.
I wanna see what he’s got.
by Crackback on Dec 28, 2011 3:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The Rt Offensive Line is Killing MS
I was at the Jet/Eagles game & witnessed how bad the rt. O line really is. MS is lucky to be ALIVE. Furthermore, w/ this line there is NO TIME to throw so there was absolutely NO SEPARATION created by the receivers. This all goes on MT!!!
I'm inclined to agree
Mike T made a lot of crappy moves/decisions this season.
Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
GangGreenNation.com
i would rather have let Holmes go
and kept Braylon and Plax and featured Kerley morem out of the slot
by DotheJet on Dec 28, 2011 4:45 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
This should...
… work out in re-negotiating the following contracts: M. Sanchez/S. Holmes reduced with incentive laden bonuses allowing them to make it up on the field. W. Hunter to reflect B/U status unless he is traded or cut(I have not looked at cap ramifications). Freeing up some extra room in addition to the 8+ mil. the team is under the cap now should bring some “bang for the buck” talent. The O.T. pool is deep in this years draft and a starting ORT upgrade could be had in either rounds 1 or 2. I would like to see (S) M. Barron on the board as that upgrades (S) with the best one available(solid upgrade). Depending on the board an OT, OLB or DE may be worth a trade to get two #1’s? There will be TE/OLB/DE and S available in F.A. period too. This could go a long way in shoring up the “TEAM” prior to the draft. I will get into this after the season and I hope we retain/promote B. Callahan as that is one coach I could not stand to see leave. Lets do what we can in keeping him and canning “Schotty”. Seven years is enough time to have shown something good, and he clearly has not!
by keith.beckett2 on Dec 30, 2011 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
Any player on the Jets offense, put in the same spot as Cruz, would have gone 99 yards.
Ok, maybe not Mulligan.
by CervezaVerde on Dec 28, 2011 4:50 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Really?
I haven’t seen any of our WR’s break a tackle and go for 40+ yards this let alone break 3 tackles in one catch and go for 99
Watch the play again
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d8255e7bd/QB-Manning-to-WR-Cruz-99-yd-pass-TD
Cromartie and I think Wilson are on the ground as he makes the catch. Smith has a legitimate shot at him but wiffs. It wasn’t all that impressive a physical feat. Its like a guy getting an inside the park homerun — there is usually an outfielder on the ground.
by CervezaVerde on Dec 28, 2011 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
huh?
he made 3 guys miss – maybe Wilson was already going for the tackle, but he quick cut inside to make Cro wiff, and then leaped over Smith. and outran the rest of the team.
and running 99 yards is always an impressive feat. that’s why it’s only happened so few times.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
the worst part of that play...
See Eric Smith running toward him, and thinking. Shit!!!
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
It was a perfect storm
2 guys fell down. The 3rd guy wiffed. You can dramtize it all you want.
by CervezaVerde on Dec 28, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
I think you're looking at that play with green cerveza goggles on
Cro didn’t go down on his own. his body failed him when Cruz salsa’d to the left.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
Ok, and your looking at it with blue colored lens
But in reality, 99 yard plays tend to happen on a breakdown rather than smotth pure talent. Cruz is young, let’s see how many more times he does it. Time will prove one of us correct.
by CervezaVerde on Dec 28, 2011 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
are you still unimpressed with Mr. Cruz, is that your point?
i would think Jets fans would be more impressed with him, since he chipped his NFL teeth against you guys, so to speak, last preseason. i just thank God Rex’s wish didn’t come true, and that we held on to him instead of cutting him, like it seems the FO almost did.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
No, I have nothing against Cruz. I think he is a great player.
I made my point clear enough above. 99 yard plays are more often about a break down then pure talent.
I think you are on a Jets sight trying to bait.
by CervezaVerde on Dec 28, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
trying to bait what?
i’ve been here many times. i root for the jets every sunday. it just so happens that i bleed blue.
i’ve no reason to bait, i enjoy the jets and jet fans.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
here's the problem
you’re looking at NFL.com replays…they suck. watch this, put it on HD(720p) and full screen it. then stop it exactly as it hits :12, right as Cruz catches it. tell me, are both defenders still on their feet at that time? run the play now. why did Cro “fall”? yeah, that’s why.
i think that puts to bed the ‘the players were on the ground already’ theory.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
by wilddre22 on Dec 28, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
better close up, slo mo replay at :54 seconds as well
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
It looked like Wilson and Cro were afraid to smash into each other.
Wilson looked like he tried to shove Cruz into Cro and then get out of the way. Cro went down to try to take out his legs and not get smashed by Cruz and Wilson. Cruz just stepped around them both. Then…. Smith starts out about 4 yards in front of Cruz with a good angle, and Cruz just runs past him. Even watching the replay, i saw Smith, and though…. Shit!!!
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
For the life of me, i can't figure out why Wilson didn't just try to run right through him.
All he had to do was keep running behind him, and when Cruz planted, Wilson would have run him over. I’m one of the few people on this site that isn’t a fan of Wilson.
"Schotty... You Suck!" - Mark Sanchez
to be fair his momentum didn't really stop after making that move
it was real fluid on Cruz’s part, more of a sidestep than a plant. but even Rex said it, it was good play call, he was doubled, it just wasn’t sound tackling.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
I see
Cro is picked by the other receiver and is going down as the catch is made. Wilson goes for the ball instead of the tackle. Smith is too slow to catch up. Perfect storm.
by CervezaVerde on Dec 28, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
ok you win
even tho the other receiver is nowhere near Cro(as evidenced by the close up replay around :54 seconds in). but you’re right, Wilson foolishly went for a little strip move when he should of tried to secure the tackle. And Smith is too slow to catch him. so if slow+foolish+missed tackle= perfect storm, then that’s what it was.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
Thank you, I win
even tho the other receiver is nowhere near Cro
Take it off slow mo and watch it full speed. Remember how the game is actually played in full speed.
so if slow+foolish+missed tackle= perfect storm, then that’s what it was.
Yes, it makes alot more sense than “Cruz salsa’d.”
his body failed him when Cruz salsa’d to the left.
Here is McKnight returning a kick 107 yards. Must be pure talent and salsa moves. I’m shocked he doesn’t use that salsa move more… or maybe coverage broke down. I dunno.
by CervezaVerde on Dec 29, 2011 1:20 AM EST up reply actions
you're arguing as a person who doesn't think they won(shocking!)
my man, freeze it at :54 seconds. then get some glasses that work and put them on. what i’m looking at now is a field view from the back of the defense, with the ball in the air about an arms length from Cruz. Wilson is in trail position, and to Cruz’s left is Cromartie, who has broken off of his route, which was an in route by the other receiver(Barden #13) Cromartie is about 1.5, 2 yards to Cruz’s outside shoulder. he’s leaning left because he’s now shifted his body to defend the outside since he knows he’s got contain there. Barden, the guy who has supposedly picked him, is directly behind Cruz at this same moment, still running his in route, totally away from touching anyone. now you tell me, in all honesty, how Ramses Barden got back in the play to pick anyone? i mean, i know he’s tall, but he’s not that tall.
i know i’m a giant fan in jet land right now. but can anyone honestly look at the replay, with no bias, and enlighten Cerveza to what really happened? now salsa your fingers over the keyboard so i can hear your next homer response.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
I don't even know what this means...
you’re arguing as a person who doesn’t think they won(shocking!)
Are you refering to a comment above made by someone else? Are you confused?
by CervezaVerde on Dec 29, 2011 2:30 AM EST up reply actions
evidently, you are
or my sarcasm is going above and beyond….
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
even your man jetswin sees it different than you
Wilson looked like he tried to shove Cruz into Cro and then get out of the way. Cro went down to try to take out his legs and not get smashed by Cruz and Wilson.
there was no pick. they weren’t both on the ground when Cruz had the pass. stop.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
here's the Screenshot
you tell me how anyone was picked in this play?
http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f398/wilddre22/?action=view¤t=over.jpg
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
How can you see a pick play in a screen shot?
What your screen shot does show, as I explained before, is that Cro is going down. Cruz has yet to put his apparent “salsa” moves to work and Cro is already falling down. Maybe because he was picked? Think about it before you answer.
by CervezaVerde on Dec 29, 2011 2:22 AM EST up reply actions
AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
oh boy…how can you discuss an issue with someone who has no visual ability? i could easily take more screenshots showing that he remained upright until the salsa cut up the field…but why bother? your spinning of it is hilarious, you made my night.
Again, i challenge anyone besides green beer to look at all visual evidence and agree with him.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
Is Cro falling down before the ball is secure in Cruz hands? Just use your eyes this time...

Has any “salsa” occurred? In all seriousness, why doesn’t McKnight always return kicks for 107 yards? Why doesn’t Cruz use his “salsa” every play? Is it like a video game where he has to power up his “salsa” before he can use it?
Or in the real world, is it just possible that this play was a breakdown on defense (a perect storm if you will) rather than some enormous talent that Cruz held back but exhibited on this very play in a “salsa” move?
by CervezaVerde on Dec 29, 2011 3:48 AM EST up reply actions
This picture is misleading. Look at the slow mo on this film as cruz cuts in and out away from Cro makes him fall down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CxmlB8Qjz4&feature=related
Reading some of your guys comments. I have to say it not all on Sanchez or all on OC or O line. Is little bit of everything. Good Luck against Miami.
I think this is a fair assessment of the state of things. That said, I think if the OC and O line were better up to the task, the QB’s play would follow suit.
Arm chair GM. Mod/contributing writer at SBN Jets blog GGN.
GangGreenNation.com
by Bro Namath on Dec 29, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
you're obviously looking at it with blue googles on Giant
Cro was already on the ground after being blatantly and viciously picked on the play. it’s already been decided.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
Good point brutha but
He do has some very special quickness .. with that said ….
Cro has done this shyt before hes not the physical presence his talent implies , matter of fact hes just the opposite !
We should know cause that playoff game two years ago in San Diego where he pumped faked on shonne Green in the hole was the reason he was traded to us !!!…
The Hardest thing for some men to do is .... Believe what they see!
No doubt Cruz has talent; and no doubt Cro misses tackles
And I haven’t said anything otherwise. But the fact is that 99 yard plays are generally a breakdown of sorts rather than as widdre22 says, “Salsa” by Cruz. Its the lowest brow undertsanding of football to even think that “salsa” is even a plausible remark. Cro was picked and fell down. Any receiver on the Jets could do the same under the same circumstance.
To say otherwise, on a Jets site, with AHAHAHAHA!!! as a title is just being a troll. You wanna discuss a play in football, discuss. You wanna discuss X and O’s, discuss. You wanna imagine “salsa” as the reason why a play occurred, well, then you are an idiot or a troll. And when Eli is struggling with a 33% pass completion, to say “salsa” broke the game loose?! How about “one weakness in man coverage schemes is crossing routes and pick plays.” But nope. Its “salsa” for this guy.
You can clearly see in the freeze frame, Cro is already going down and Cruz is just getting the ball. Wilson makes the mistake of going for the strip rather than the tackle. That is all.
by CervezaVerde on Dec 29, 2011 5:04 AM EST up reply actions
yes you did say otherwise
you said, it was a perfect storm because both defenders were falling down before he caught the ball. that was proven to be true.
you then said, well then Cro had to be picked by the guy that he was covering. that turns out to be false as you can see in the pic he’s nowhere near Cro.
i’m waiting for your next inventive piece, so i can laugh maniacally at you again. and yes, since you seem to be so caught on certain phrases i’ve used, yes, i did title my post with maniacal laughter. why? well when someone consistently tells you the sky is green, then you show them clear proof that it is indeed blue, and they retort with ‘well it isn’t green, actually it’s red’, all you can do at that point is laugh. so yes, you got laughed at, sorry can’t help that. it’s funny that no one has come to your defense on this play; wonder why this is.
now continue to ignore obvious evidence and get stuck on one word. i have to chalk that up as to the only reason why you haven’t seen clearly yet.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
Again this is why I told you to watch in real time rather than your screen shots
Because you think a guy that runs 4.3 and another guy that runs what 4.5, I dunno, crossing each other are no where near each other 1/2 a second after they cross. Why because they are 3 yards apart? Do they run 1 yard per second or 10 yards per second? I’ll give you a hint… its 9 or 10 yards per second hence the 40 yard dash in 4+ seconds. And just like that math question about a train leaving New Orleans and another leaving Houston, etc. Well, when they are running at each other, they are converging at 20 yards per second.
you then said, well then Cro had to be picked by the guy that he was covering. that turns out to be false as you can see in the pic he’s nowhere near Cro.
So in a freeze frame, where two guys are converging at each other at 20 yards per second, to say they are 3 yards apart and therefore no where near each other, is plain wrong. The ball is at Cruz, meaning that when the ball was thrown, no. 13 was in Cro’s face. Its a pick play. Its what you wanna try to do against man coverage.
by CervezaVerde on Dec 30, 2011 2:37 AM EST up reply actions
i think your lack of vision is more trollish than anything i've said
you get short with me, i give it back. that’s all there is to it.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
My lack of seeing it your way
GTFO troll. Salsa, really?! And it was you that weighed in on my statement on a Jets sight.
by CervezaVerde on Dec 30, 2011 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
no you bounce
yes on a jets “sight”. a team that i root heavily for, every week. the guys up top know that i’m a respectable poster, but when some one refuses to see reality, and then tries to get smart with me? yeah, best believe i’ma buck back.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
Good luck troll. I guess Cruz will do that every week so long as he stays powered up on salsa.
by CervezaVerde on Dec 30, 2011 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
Cruz has done that every week
get better vision coverage, maybe you’ll be able to see what’s going on in the future.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
Because you want to be a persistant troll
Who by the way, came to a Jets site and commented on my comment… and proceeded to call me drunk and blind, while I said none of that to you…
Here are the words of the Jets DC… http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/10039/pettine-reflects-on-cruzs-99-yard-td
He says the coverage called was double coverage by Cro and Wilson on Cruz. So now I ask you, why was Cro not there? I’ll answer for you. Because if you watch it full speed you will see the other receiver cut off Cro as the ball was in the air. Cro is falling down as the catch is made. Is only attempt at a tackle is from his knees. Wilson tries to strip the ball rather than tackle. Cruz did nothing other than being in the right place at the right time.
Now I give you real break down. And you counter with i have no vision and I’m drunk and maybe i don’t like Cruz. On a Jets site.
That’s why you are a troll. And when you assume a 99 yard play is based upon salsa, then I also know you don’t know much about football.
You still haven’t answered my question as to why McKnight doesn’t return a Kick Off 107 yards every game?
by CervezaVerde on Dec 30, 2011 12:41 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i came to a Jets site because i root for the Jets
that is how it works right?
i commented on a comment. that is how blogs work, correct?
my first post had no malicious intent. your response however, had a tinge of smartassness to it
2 guys fell down. The 3rd guy wiffed. You can dramtize it all you want</blockquote>.
next you get caught up on one word i used, constantly going back to it. soon after, you claim i’m on a Jets site trying to bait. bait what? up until that point, i was trying to bring visual evidence to support my argument. anyone reading this debate to this point can clearly see you’re itching to fight. why i don’t know. i’ve commented with you before, with no prob. now you’re acting brand new because my team beat yours, i guess? i don’t know.
And this is no breakdown. that article says nothing. it says Cruz was ‘supposed’ to be doubled. why wasn’t he? who knows, are we to assume it was because Cro was picked? or could it be he was in the wrong coverage? maybe his technique was poor. there are a dozen factors that can be attributed to the poor defense there.
show me visual proof of Barden’s hands on Cro. show that. or better yet, show one other GGNer that has agreed with your assessment.
you can talk about salsa, you can talk about McKnight, you can deflect all you like, fact is the visual evidence supports me wholeheartedly.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
blockquote fail
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
If you think that is an insult at all, especially an insult that allows you to call people blind and drunk, then you should GTFO
by CervezaVerde on Dec 30, 2011 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
Lets end this debate once and for all
i’m going to show enough angles and screenshots to where we can end this once and for all. i don’t know how to post these as images so i’ll link ’em and you can view at your discretion, k?
As you can see from this first angle, as Cruz catches the ball, Ramses Barden, number 13, the guy supposedly picking Cro, is roughly 3 yards away from the action. his body is angled toward the middle of the field, as he is running his in route pattern. Cro, however, is angling towards the sidelines, as he has already broken off of the route, and is attempting to make the tackle on Cruz. now i’m no physics major, but to me it seems highly improbable that a man 3 yards away, and running totally opposite to the flow of action, can pick anyone on this play. the live action tape supports this argument. So, the pick myth, is debunked.
Angle #2: http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f398/wilddre22/?action=view¤t=crostillonhisfeet.jpg
Since the first angle i provided above seemed to leave doubt as to whether Cro was on his feet when Cruz caught the ball, or whether he was in the process of falling due to a supposed pick, i took the immediate screenshot following the one above. as you can see, Cruz, has the ball, and Wilson is going for the ill fated strip. Cromartie is fully upright. not falling, not on the ground, fully upright.
Angle #3: http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f398/wilddre22/?action=view¤t=crostillonhisfeet2.jpg
and in case further evidence is needed, this is the next screenshot following the one right above. Again, Cro is on both feet, although in a bad tackling position. therefore, he could not be on the ground cause he was picked, because as we can all clearly see, Cruz has now secured the ball and is ready to make a football move, and Cro is still standing.
Angle #4: http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f398/wilddre22/?action=view¤t=salsa.jpg
Here is the real reason Cromartie ended up on the ground. Cruz quicksteps to the left, leaving Cro on the ground, with only Smith to beat.
Couple these stills with the real time video, and the slow motion up close angles, and i think it’s clear to see that Cromartie neither was on the ground already, or was picked, and fell because he was in bad tackling position, and got exploited by Cruz. How you dispute this evidence, will be beyond me.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
The fact that you are now trying to rescue your garbage now, after hurling garbage for two days, I could care less
Maybe make a fan post on a Giants site. You don’t know what a pick play is. Since I watch a team that specializes in man coverage, I see them all the time.
by CervezaVerde on Dec 30, 2011 2:01 AM EST up reply actions
Ahh, just as i thought
Checkmate. good night.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
^^^^Visual Evidence^^^^^
Checkmate.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
You don't know what a pick play is. Its when a guy crosses in between you and who you are supposed to be guarding. You insistance on freeze frames is confused.
If you can not understand that 99 yard plays are generally a defensive breakdowns and not “salsa”, then you don’t understand football. And your general attempt to attack everyone makes you a troll. What did Becket do other than disagree with you, and you wanna start calling him out for not posting enough. Stupid troll shit. GTFO.
by CervezaVerde on Dec 30, 2011 2:14 AM EST up reply actions
that's all well and fine
except Cro was guarding someone that was away from Cruz. so there was no pick action there. he simply fell off his man in an attempt to double Cruz. so again, you’re just….wrong.
i never said there were no defensive breakdowns on the play. i said Cro had bad tackling form way before Cruz even saw him. i said Wilson should not have gone for that strip. what you did say, originally, was that it wasn’t that an impressive feat because both defenders were on the ground already. that was the basis of your argument which i challenged. from there, you go on to accuse me of baiting you, and talking real short to me, when all i wanted to do was clarify an instance in which you were totally wrong.
and what did Beckett do?
Then I must…
… have been mistaken, after further review I was wrong. He(cervaza)is right and to spend two days on a site for fans of the N.Y. Jets and "try to tell any of us anything" is a waste of everyones time(see: Trolling on GGN…) Ba-Bye
by keith.beckett2 on Dec 30, 2011 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
before that, i had nary a bad word about Beckett. now? the kracken has been unleashed. so, you can selectively read all you want, but facts are facts. you get what you give. john b. and bro give respect, they get respect. beckett gets no respect, because that’s what he put out.
and i’ll stay right here, thank you. waiting for you to disprove my visual evidence.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
I'm not wrong according to the Jets DC
I posted you a link. But you don’t care. Jets DC said the assignment was supposed to be double coverage. Ah, but cro got picked. But you don’t know what that means.
he simply fell off his man in an attempt to double Cruz. so again, you’re just….wrong.
by CervezaVerde on Dec 30, 2011 2:41 AM EST up reply actions
i already rebutted this argument
you’re not addressing the visual evidence in front of your eyes.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
I guess I can't see salsa when its right in front of my eyes
All I see is bad defense errupting in a perfect storm. But you wanna come on a Jets site and tell every one to see it your way.
And thats why you are a troll.
by CervezaVerde on Dec 30, 2011 2:49 AM EST up reply actions
Trolls always imagine they are persecuted
before that, i had nary a bad word about Beckett. now? the kracken has been unleashed.
by CervezaVerde on Dec 30, 2011 2:45 AM EST up reply actions
"You come at the King, you best not miss" - Omar
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
Omar Minaya was fired. So should you be.
GTFO.
by CervezaVerde on Dec 30, 2011 2:50 AM EST up reply actions
Refute the evidence
until then……check, and mate.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
Yeah, you comment on my post with salsa
And told me I have bad vision. But you clearly don’t understand football or how not to troll. Don’t let the door hit you, troll.
by CervezaVerde on Dec 30, 2011 3:01 AM EST up reply actions
I know this much
You have no credibility because I put clear evidence in front of your face, and you chose to ignore it.
Check.
Mate.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
by wilddre22 on Dec 30, 2011 8:54 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
You have no evidence, Its flawed and you don't know football. And you continue to troll.
by CervezaVerde on Dec 30, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
There is much evidence
And you continue to dodge.
Checkmate playa.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
by wilddre22 on Dec 31, 2011 7:43 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
If you can't understand that a 99 yard play is a break down of defense and not salsa
then you are not worth discussing football with and/or a troll.
by CervezaVerde on Dec 31, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
Your reading comprehension is alarmingly low
Go back, review the posts, and then turn your attn to the visual evidence I posted.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
by wilddre22 on Jan 1, 2012 5:39 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
That's what happens when you lose an argument
You resort to posting pictures.
Checkmate.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
by wilddre22 on Jan 2, 2012 11:04 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I made a picture
to practice “using my eyes” and I included a word so i could practice “my reading comprehension”. I didn’t lose and argument but I may have beaten a troll.
by CervezaVerde on Jan 2, 2012 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
well at least you're attempting to better yourself
congrats. Next google chess, and learn what checkmated is.
because it has happened to you.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
Please all you did was troll a Jets site
after a loss. Congrats on getting trolled harder than you could troll.
by CervezaVerde on Jan 3, 2012 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
right
because i just joined yesterday and hate the Jets
what’s the odds of you getting benched like Santonio, and let real posters get in the game?
oh and btw…….check……mate.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
So you are a troll that doesn't know football and is obsessed with chess
Did you get picked on in school too?
ha, assume much?
here, i’ll put it in terms you may better understand – WINNING!!!
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
Hahaha, so sad
what’s the odds of you getting benched like Santonio, and let real posters get in the game?
The last few posters in this post who were not you and me only showed up to call you a troll. This post is a week old and you feel compelled to show up and reply to me. You’re like a little troll that just realized he is controlled by strings.
Cruz is a fine WR. Too many drops though. But 99 yard plays are breakdowns on defense generally. You have not been able to argue or refute otherwise. Your repeated return here was trolling but is now just pathetic. Time to spend some time on your teams blog. You know, they actually made the playoffs. If you like football, and you are interested in football, maybe you should go enjoy football.
But if you prefer to be a troll on here, I can keep pulling your strings and controlling you like a little troll doll.
seems to be some confusion on who exactly is the puppeteer
i’ve been having so much fun pushing your buttons, i don’t want it to end. seems to me that there are two at this party, so you’re showing up as well, in an attempt to mask your humiliation, in being proven wrong. so funny, that you think you’re the one in control. i’ve been masterminding this whole thing the minute you ignored the post with obvious evidence that proved you dead wrong. keep on dancing for me monkey, you make me smile.
i’ve refuted your tired argument with a very long post with 4 pieces of visual evidence. stop trying to draw me into the same argument, w/o refuting true evidence. you can keep calling me troll all you want, the fact is, i put up real football evidence that you will obviously continue to ignore, because it doesn’t support your argument. so don’t try now to draw me back into football conversation when i try to do the same, i’m a troll….yeah.
i’ve spent plenty of time on BBV; check the stats, thousands of posts over there, i’m good money there, so they’ll be alright for the 5 minutes i spend over here f-ing with you. but guess what? i’m also good money over here, since i’ve spent many days here before you became a flea on my cats’ ass, so i’ll continue to do so. and i’ll continue to put up relevant posts about relevant issues on other articles, and come back here and laugh vigorously at the next ridiculous thing you write.
now stop playing with your 1994 troll dolls and (clap clap) dance! dance monkey! write something back! that’s an order!
hehehehehehe…………………
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
btw, never called you drunk
so stop putting words in peoples mouths.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
keep trying baby-man
wilddre for the win.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
No Need...
… to break a tackle that was missed by 2 CB’s; The matador move by Cruz was what made the play a TD instead of a fist down at best at the 12 yd line.
by keith.beckett2 on Dec 30, 2011 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
that's what i've been trying to tell cerveza for 2 days
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
Then I must...
… have been mistaken, after further review I was wrong. He(cervaza)is right and to spend two days on a site for fans of the N.Y. Jets and “try to tell any of us anything” is a waste of everyones time(see: Trolling on GGN…) Ba-Bye
by keith.beckett2 on Dec 30, 2011 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
i've spent many days on this Jets site
because i spend 3 hours every week agonizing over their games, since i root for them. and since i have about 9 times the comments here over you, i’m probably more valuable to this site than you are. and since you just flipped flopped for the sake of flip flopping, you’ve still added nothing to this site, but a wishy washy demeanor. thanks for trying tho.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
Is he...
… still here? Take your tinge of “Smartassness”(in your case dumb- assness) to Big Blow Nation.
by keith.beckett2 on Dec 30, 2011 1:30 AM EST up reply actions
not on your say so
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
Lack of explosive players on D as well
The defense could use some explosive players also. obviously a pass rushing DE/LB, and a safety who has range to cover and move on a ball while it’s in the air.
Trolling on GGN...
… Due to the fact, GGN is a gregarious website, your mendacious posts are tantamount to malfeasance.
by keith.beckett2 on Dec 30, 2011 12:54 AM EST reply actions
wow ..lmao this shyt is epic! .. hehehehe
The Hardest thing for some men to do is .... Believe what they see!
wow, stalker much?
you mean you really took that much time out of your obviously not very busy schedule to photoshop and copy and paste pictures and dialog, all for me? i mean, took my image, my words, wow, this must have taken you a long time to get accomplished. and all because you cannot match football wits with me…good for you little buddy. i bet when you were in elementary school, you got all types of gold stars for trying so hard. you were a master with the paste and glitter right? and the best part of it was when you were done, and the glue dried, you got to peel it off your fingers, or just lick it off, as long as no one was watching, right little guy?
this is, this is wonderful stuff. a little scary(you’ll be receiving a visit from some officers later) but A for effort young man.
but.
you.
still………………………….
lose.
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
oh and

took me way less time, yet just as effective.
“I will not lose.” Jay-Z
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!

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