The kracken is dead!!
by BIG OH!!!!! on Sep 30, 2010 9:36 AM EDT
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PrintAfter watching the Jets victory twice over the fish Sunday, I seen quite a few things that stood out; but none of them stood out more then the two plays Vernon Gholston looked liked he be nothing more then a special team player. The first play was when Jake Long threw him around like he was a high school rusher. Ok, Long also did the same thing to JT; and I'm quite sure Long probably does that probably at least twice a game against opposing rushers. The second play was when Cromartie was attempting (attempting is an understatement, but the Jets didn't get him to tackle), a tackle on Ronnie Brown. This play stands out because the next or closest Jet defensive player was Gholston, and in my opinion Gholston should have got there to make that tackle while Cromartie held Brown up. Now it's easy to say while I'm sitting on my couch what play a player should have or not made; however, anybody who played football knows while a player is being held up the next or closet players job is to make the tackle or even strip the ball. Brown got I believe eight yards after being contacted at or behind the line of scrimmage. I believe Gholston was not running hard enough to get to that tackle; and this lack of ferocity is why he will be nothing more then a special team player.
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I don’t recall either play, but I can’t put too much stock in the Long thing because Long owns everybody. He pwned Jarred Allen a couple weeks ago too. As for Gholston, he’s productive. He slipping blocks and making tackles for loss. I’d like to see him get more snaps on passing downs to see if he can get after it. Not quitting on him yet.
Man I was kinda hoping though
He’ll get another shot at it later this year hopefully but I was kinda hoping for a sack against Jake Long just like back in college as crazy as it sounds LOL!
Yeah Crack I'm with you
he’s just not getting a lot of playing time.
A bust is a bust is a bust.
You guys are killing me. How many more years do you want to give this guy? It was stupid to put him on the field starting with LAST season, because he still had trade value as an unknown commodity and #6 overall pick. Now the entire league is well aware he’s a waste of a roster spot. At least there was the intrigue of not seeing him as a DE in a 4 man front like he played in college to entice other GM’s to bid for him.
Same thing with that other waste albeit with lower draft status, McKnight. We’ll be hearing about his “talent” and potential for the next 3 seasons too. While he produces nothing.
by nationalist88 on Sep 30, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well I have to admit I'm biased
I like Gholston since his college days. But he’s making more of an impact this year as opposed to years past; at least he has a couple of tackles for losses this year.
Kinda weird to see you don’t have any positive choices in your poll. I, like Crackback, am still in a “wait and see” approach.
.بله ، امضای من است به زبان فارسی
Maybe something along the lines of...
No worries, there’s still time for him to show up this year.
GANG GREEN ALL DAY!
I put God first! Anything else comes a distant second, next to a cross-country third.
Being that I'm Nigerian, being a Jets' Fan only comes natural... it's all about that old Green and White.
You see, it's not about how you won the game, it's about how you played the game.... there's a difference. If you don't understand this, then you're losing big time.
thats what im suggesting in choice number three
It means the Kracken will soon be release as in Release the Kracken. I can see the mix up though. Now that I think about it, I missed a chance to get some laughs.
sorry to say but if you look back at history
on that high of a pick if it ain’t happen by now it ain’t goin to.
Thats not true. Lots of guys bloomed late. He’s making plays this year. I’d bring him back for at least one more season after this one.
Oh hey you're a Giants fan right?
It just popped into my head since they have been compared for whatever reason, but how has Jason Pierre-Paul been doing?
Its a dead heat.
JPP
1st year: 3 games, 3 tackles, 0 sacks
The Kracken
3rd Year: 3 games, 4 tackles, 0 sacks.
It looks like the Kracken is definitely a better player!
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 30, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know why people take history of picks so seriously.
So basically your saying every player that gets pick at #6 is going to bust and that teams should always trade that pick away for a different pick where history shows that players selected at that certain pick gives more production? You can’t draft off of history jackass. Players are different, it doesn’t where a player is drafted at. The player has the key to be productive or bust no matter where he’s selected. Idiot.
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by MikeTheIntern on Oct 1, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
not as common as you may think.
players have had low outputs but steady improvements to become really good . in 32 games he has 0 sacks .now i havn’t looked but if you can find me #’s that inept in a player that became something great i.e. “the kracken” ill gladly recant .
The first play was when Jake Long threw him around like he was a high school rusher. Ok, Long also did the same thing to JT; and I’m quite sure Long probably does that probably at least twice a game against opposing rushers.
I saw the same play (and mentioned it before). For those that didn’t see it, or don’t recall, it wasn’t that Long threw him down, it was how absurdly small, weak and ineffectual he looked. It was a question degree. It literally made him look like he didn’t belong on the field, physically. Long is a big man, a strong man, but it does not account for how Gholston looked. The one thing he supposedly had for him was his strength, and just needing the right technique. I’m telling you, the guy is just that that strong. He might be able to bench press, but on the field he is a weakling.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
*just not that strong.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 30, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
The thing with Gholston is that he is a project. I don't really expect that much out of him on the field this year.
He is blocked by other better players, but maybe Rex and Pettine can mold this guy during practice all year and see what happens if he has to get some real PT because of an injury or something. Right now it just doesn’t make sense to stick him in there instead of Devito, Ellis, etc., because those guys are just better. I would be more concerned with what the staff is evaluation of his progress during practice has been like.
you dont take projects
in the 1st round with the #6 pick – or in the 2nd round with the #61 pick (ahem – Ducasse). You take them in the 4th round, watch them vomit during OTAs, fail the conditioning run, and see them fumble 3 times during the preseason….
1st & 2nd round is slated for sure thing linemen (O or D), hot handed WRs and CBs (think randy moss), and ONLY gamble on players that touch the ball 50% or more of the snaps… QBs, and HBs where hitting a home run pays dividends for 30 snaps a game, 16+ games a year, for 10 years and failing was worth the risk given the potential upside.
You want a project, go do some arts and crafts at the senior center. You want to draft a player with the #6 pick of the draft, go get a DT to replace Jenkins.
http://www.charlottejetsfans.com
Applause.
You take them in the 4th round, watch them vomit during OTAs, fail the conditioning run, and see them fumble 3 times during the preseason….
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Oct 2, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s not even a project. A project is someone with freakish ability or dimension who must LEARN something in order to deliver that extraordinary quality to the field. JPP of the Giants is a “project”, even Ducasse is a project. But Gholston doesn’t even have the stuff of a project. There is no super high ceiling on him. The only thing that would have made him a good pro is the capacity to perform in stalwart manner and strength as a pro, as he did in college. And you have to imagine that the problem is between the ears. In college he was stronger than most and the scheme allowed him the freedom to tackle guys. Here he is a lost boy, surrounded by stronger and faster men, and he just doesn’t the brain to get the edge he needs to even make plays with whatever tools he does have. The ceiling on Gholston is about 2 feet over his head.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Oct 2, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
And you have to imagine that the problem is between the ears.
which is why he is a project. My point was basically that Gholston isn’t on the field because he isn’t good enough to be on the field and there is no reason for him to be on the field.
He has NO CEILING to speak of
Its like calling a 6’0" shooting guard who can’t shoot, jump or defend well “a project”.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Oct 2, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I never said it was a good pick.
I hated Gholston, never wanted him. I’m not defending the pick. In fact, reading your whole post, I honestly have no point why this is a response to me.
Because you don't seem to know what the term "project" usually refers to in sports.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Oct 2, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Why does NC Scott take so much offense to the word project?
You are acting like it was a compliment.
I don’t think the Jets viewed him as a project when they drafted him, that would be pretty fucking stupid now wouldn’t it?
To Rex Ryan, he is a project. You have to get over the whole first round pick thing. That was 3 years ago, we can’t have it back, that has nothing to do with anything anymore. To Rex Ryan right now, he is a project. I never said you take a project in the first round. I never said Gholston was a good pick. I never wanted him to begin with. My point is that you guys seemingly are expecting a lot out of a guy who you think sucks.
Rex is going to evaluate him in practice, he isn’t going to put him on the field when there are better personnel out there already.
And what are you talking about you draft a DT to replace Jenkins. First of all, that makes no sense, are you saying the Jets should have taken Jenkins replacement 3 years ago, assuming he would be hurt this year? Another thing is that you need a nose guard, not a defensive tackle to replace Jenkins, they are two entirely different positions, just ask Fat Albert.
Why does NC Scott take so much offense to the word project?
Because it implies potential, usually great potential. It just isn’t there.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Oct 2, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
also, weren't you the guy who suggested that the Jets base their gameplan
around trying to get Vernon Gholston a sack, blitz him on every down, play him at linebacker and rearrange their defense and have to compensate for Gholston playing a position he couldn’t get any reps at over his first two years?
Wasn’t me. I liked the idea of putting Gholston down in the stance, but the notion of game planning around him is ridiculous. The only thing worth trying with him is to get an ounce of production, a drop, but the idea that he is going to be a serious pass rusher or even run stopper on the edge is a joke. He’s too small, too slow and not smart enough.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Oct 2, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously it wasn't you.
If this was directed at you the reply would have been to….. you.
Gholston is a Rex Ryan project right now. If you want to argue that, than you want to argue for the sake of arguing. He is a guy who Rex thinks he can mold. Whether you agree with that or not is up to you, I don’t, but that’s not the point. Obviously Rex see’s something in him because he wasn’t cut.
heart
I think its no heart. I know college was inferior competition but I heard rumors he dominated Jake Long in college. Long is one of the best OL men and if the kraken stepped up or developed accordingly we would have a kick ass dominating DE/OLB. So unless the kraken goes and sees the Wizard of OZ and asks for a new heart I dont know what is going on with this guy.
LOL @ the Wizard of Oz. Ha ha that’s great, he should grab some courage too while he’s down there.
by nationalist88 on Oct 2, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
How far do we have to ride a god damn bust before we admit failure and move on?
I too, want to release the kraken. From his contract with the team.
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