Revis' Grandmother Chimes In
Everybody seems to have a take on the Darrelle Revis situation. Now the All Pro's grandmother is chiming in.
"Darrelle does what he does because he loves it," she said, sitting at her dining-room table. "For this to be happening to him, it's almost like a slap in the face, because he's not appreciated."
....
"If he does," Gilbert said of sitting out the season, "it won't be because of Sean. It'll be because the Jets don't give him a decent contract."
First let me implore you to read the entire article Cimini wrote. This was just a tiny snippet.
Now I don't blame her for taking her grandson's side. That's what grandmothers should do.
Things like this make it clear why Revis is losing the PR war badly. Again, a grandmother is going to take the side of her grandson and repeat what he is saying. Darrelle might not be happy with what the Jets are offering, but all indications are the team is willing to make him the second highest paid corner in the league. Do I think the Jets should make him the highest paid? Yes, I do, but what they are offering is hardly a slap in the face.
I've noticed a trend with these people. Everything is 100% somebody else's fault when they talk in public. There always has to be a shot at the other side. They can't just offer remarks about hoping the sides come together.
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I want the Jets to sign Revis because I don’t think they can go all the way without him, but this has gotten ridiculous already. I thought he was just bluffing and attempting to make a point, and would come in after a couple of weeks, but now I believe he’ll sit out the season, and this makes me angry. He’s signed for three more years, and has a lot of nerve pulling this crap, when the rest of the organization is so committed to winning the Super Bowl.
Summing up, if I’m the Jets I literally cut off my nose to spite my face, and tell him to take their latest offer or sit out the next three years and get a job flipping burgers at McDonalds. I wouldn’t trade him under any circumstances. What choice would he have other to come in and play?
Buster Posey: Let's enjoy him before he goes to the Yankees.
by rxmeister on Sep 3, 2010 2:31 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I agree
I posted something similar the other day. Have Woody call a press conference and say look, “if Darrelle Revis isn’t in camp before the season starts, we cease negotiations and he doesn’t play for 3 years. We will not trade, release, waive, or do anything to satisfy his request to leave. I am completely willing to spite myself here by having Revis sit, because I am that vindictive”. If Revis camp every truly believed Woody was that vindictive, Revis would be back in camp, because all of the Revis camp talk about us needing him to win doesn’t matter if the owner is truly mad enough to just try to screw Darrelle over after what he has pulled.
+1 big time he should have to wait for 3 years
and if there is a lock out next year I hope it is 4 years
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
I agree 110%
If he wants to continue to haggle numbers during the season, fine. but if he signed a valid contract, he should be playing and being that the fines in place to penalize him seem to have no effect (probably due to his agents) then they should step things up a notch and up the ante.
Although, if we pulled a move like that Rex would probably have a heart attack
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Sep 3, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you 100% as well but,
Woody Johnson would NEVER do that. I think it is a great strategy, but Woody would never do that. Mike T seems cut throat enough to do it but things like that don’t happen much in pro sports. If anyone on any team came out and said that about a player holding out it would forever ruin his image. A move like that would make people “Sick”. As New Yorkers we see it as a good, no nonsense way to get Revis to sign but everywhere else around the country they would learn to hate us and how we run our team. I love the thought, it would get Revis to sign but the chances of that happening is very, very unlikely.
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by MikeTheIntern on Sep 3, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I agree,
it won’t happen, but I wish it would.
What I don't get...
Is that the Jets CAN do that. What, exactly, does Revis have to bargain with? That’s why I’m so surprised this has gone on as long as it has.
What we don;t know about Revis situation
Could it be Woody and the Jets know that the owners next year are looking to reduce the player percentage of revenues in the new CBA by 10 to 20%. Woody has sat in on the owners meetings and knows how hard hard-nosed they will be. This means that instead of having a higher salary cap for each team it will be will have a lower cap by 10 to 20%. A team that this year would have a cap of 125 million for this year (if it existed) would have a cap of 112.5 to 100 million next year. Contracts put in place this year would still be effected by the new cap. That is why ALL negotiations this year have been so difficult. This is why there is no Revis deal. Please address this issue. Thank you.
some facts for Grandma
First off….I am an old lady too, Grandma so no disrespect here to you…however, I thik you are a little short on your facts…
1. Your Grandson signed a CONTRACT
2. The Jets noticed he over performed so they APPROACHED HIM to re do it.
3. the people who are getting slapped in the face are his teammates…all of whom have been offered alot less money to perform. You see this is a TEAM (let me say that again.)TEAM SPORT …your Grandson, though he may be talented would not be getting this recognition if he played on a different team.
4. If the Jets break down and pay him what he wants we the fan are going to have to suffer through every joker that thinks he deserves the same treatment. No thanks.
5. Your Grandson should honor his current contract, only in this stupid sport would someone have the gall to say it is a slap in the face to get paid a million dollars to play a game.
by KZL on Sep 3, 2010 2:35 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Grandma Should Be Subject To The Press Blackout Too!
My God, a slap in the face! All perspective on reality has been lost. Hello… Earth to the Revis Family, Earth to the Revis Family. The people who really pay your salary (its the fans, make no mistake about where the money comes from) are losing their jobs and their homes. Your poor grandson will be forced, forced mind you, to play a game for somewhere between $12 million and $16 million a year depending upon the final deal. You’re insulted? Get a grip Grandma. I don’t begrudge a player being paid fairly but lets be honest. He doesn’t want to fulfill his contract, a legally binding document that he put his signature on, and when the Jets agree that the terms should be altered to increase his compensation based upon performance, he breeches his part of the bargain and feigns insult because they haven’t caved to his demands. This is an indictment of Grandma and the entire Revis clan for not instilling appropriate values in their child.
by Sherman Plunkett on Sep 3, 2010 2:36 PM EDT reply actions
Grandma is on crack
I’d like someone to insult me to the tune of $120Mil. How she thinks making such a prima facie absurd statement helps her grandson is beyond me.
Revis is a special player. But he both benefits and benefits from Rex’s scheme. On another team he might not have had the year he had last year and we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
I pray that Cromartie and Wilson kick ass in the 1st few weeks and Revis starts to feel disposable (as in the Jets offer ticking down $10million annually per game he misses).
Do I think the Jets should make him the highest paid? Yes, I do, but what they are offering is hardly a slap in the face.
Why should the Jets make him the highest paid cornerback in the NFL? Because he wants to be? Look, the reality of this situation is the Jets wanted to give Revis a little bump because they felt like it was the right thing to do, not because they owed him shit. Fuck him, fuck his mom, fuck his grandma, fuck his uncle, fuck his agent. He’s a greedy bastard who is obviousl;y too stupid to understand how NFL contracts work, and that he has literally no leverage at all. He is also apparently stupid enough to believe that teams want to pay him 15 million dollars a year, even though he has had one elite season, under the tutelage and play calling of the best defensive coach in the game. Where was Revis island before Rex got here? That’s what I thought.
Why should the Jets make him the highest paid cornerback in the NFL? Because he wants to be?
Because he is the best cornerback in the league.
Editor-In-Chief
Gang Green Nation
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http://www.ganggreennation.com
for one year.
under the best defensive coach in the nfl. with 3 years on his contract.
In this era when guys like LeBron, DWade and Bosh
all took salary cuts to play together, Mr. Revis stands out like a me first selfish prick who could care less about the team. I say dump him.
I may be stupid but I am not an idiot,
AS MUCH AS I HATE TO SAY THIS BUT FUCK REVIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I THINK WE SHOULD LET HIM SIT THE 3 YEARS HE HAS LEFT AND THEN STICK HIM WITH THE FRANCHISE TAG AND MAKE HIM SIT AGAIN AND THEN WE WILL SEE WHAT HE IS WORTH WHEN NO OTHER TEAM WILL TOUCH HIM IN FREE AGENCY
well I hope the Jets never trade him if he wants to play it like this he should have to sit there for 3 years
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
Hey Gram the "Revis public image ship" is going down in flames
You should tell your grandson that the more people connected to him make short sighted comments like this the more people think he is greedy and selfish. He is losing his fans that were at one time on his side by the day, wake up.
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
shame on you
Shame on you Revis for putting your poor Grandma in the position of making excuses for her rmillionaire grandson…it’s such a laugh
does she even believe what she is saying?
How much money did she make when she was earning money
I find it hard to believe she even believes what she is saying
I am glad that her daughter (Revis Mom) had the sense to call her and tell her to kick the reporter out of the door…but you put your GRANDMOTHER in this position.
Shame on you…you are worse then Tiger in PR
screw Revis
2 holdouts and only 3 years in the NFL! What a jerk. He’s screwing the team and the fans.
Keep him out of the league for the next 3 years and then let’s see what a 27yr old disgruntled corner who hasn’t played in 3 years is worth. Can we go after his original signing bonus too?
If Revis actually did know how to read a contract
he should know by now he’s not entitled to anything no matter how well he did last year. He’d also know that his contract is not up and therfore he should be playing as long as he’s physically able.
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Sep 3, 2010 3:37 PM EDT reply actions
Family Members and PR
Also, did you ever notice how the family members of public figures ultimately cause them extreme grief in the PR area? Remember Mel Gibson’s dad? How about Roger Clinton and McCain’s mom? Anyone remeber Billy Carter?
Revis was probably reading the papers and let out a Homer Simpson-sized “DOH!!!”
I'm not happy about the holdout but I understand it.
1. NFL contracts are not guaranteed, if the Jets don’t have to honor it why should Revis (and for those people that say they would if they deserve a lot more money, I say bull, money changes people).
2. He deserves it, and it’s not his fault Al Davis set the market so high. Is it ridiculous, yes but neither side appears willing to compromise.
3. The front office redid Cromarties contract so he could pay his 200 baby mamas, before he even played a down for this team.
4. Back in the 90’s Emmit Smith held out the first two games of the season, the Cowboys promptly lost and Jerry Jones paid the man, I fully expect that to happen because Cromartie is going to be thrown around like a little * by the receivers he’ll be facing the first 3 weeks.
5. Lastly, at this point if you aren’t going to pay him you may as well trade him and get some return on your investment. There is no way, we could get equal value but at this point why let him sit out 3 years and then walk as a free agent gaining absolutely nothing.
We finally had a legitmate contender for the Super Bowl, and being the Jets had to find a way to shoot themselves in the foot. Had the Colts not quit, we probably wouldn’t have even made the playoffs so losing are best player is going to hurt a lot more than people realize.
His desire to be the highest paid cornerback is what really gets me. Does he understand that that contract that the guy in Oakland gets was an aberration, and he shouldn’t expect the Hets to make the same mistake? There’s 50 pitchers at least better than Barry Zito, but do they say that they’re better than Zito in negotiations, so they should make more than 126 million dollars? Compare your contract to the top group of CB’s, not just one mistaken deal negotiated by an owner who is obviously senile.
Buster Posey: Let's enjoy him before he goes to the Yankees.
by rxmeister on Sep 3, 2010 4:05 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
AMEN DUDE !!!! Why does everyone not see this!!??
by George DeWitt on Sep 3, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Because it is a negotiating position
for the ONLY thing that matters, the guaranteed money. The contract total, the years and dollars means ZERO, its the icing on the wedding cake, its not the cake.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
REVIS is no PAT TILLMAN
While there will be players like Darelle Revis who think anything less than $15 per year in a down economy is a “slap in the face”, there was also a guy by the name of Pat Tillman who once gave up his NFL career.
And Woody Johnson is no Pat Tillman.

"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I really don't think it's fair
to draw a comparison between a man that quit his livelihood and gave his life for his country to either side of a contract dispute in football.
REVIS is no GEORGE WASHINGTON
I’m with ya Bro!
Trevor Gillies: Giving an all new meaning to "Mustache Ride"
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Amen brother
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Sep 4, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Pat Tillman who once gave up his NFL career.
great example, Revis is squabbling over money as if his family is in some war torn country starving to death when in reality he is being paid millions to play a glorified game of catch every Sunday.
There are things far more important in this world and this is the issue he chooses to make his stand on.
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Sep 4, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Pat Tillman was stupid.
Lets stop glorifying his stupidity. He sacfrificed millions to fight in a fake war so that others could profit and was killed by his own troops.
If he wanted to be noble he should have kept playing football and donated his salary to charity.
Please stop draping the flag over a moron and calling him a hero.
whoa whoa whoa hold up here
I couldn’t ever disagree with you more. I never said I agreed with the war, because I don’t but that’s a whole other debate for another time and place.
Let’s get this clear, I doubt I could or would ever do what he did and you won’t find too many people that would. That does NOT make what he did stupid. Unique? Yes. Unconventional? Yes. But the reason people make a big deal of it doesn’t have anything to do with the war at all, It’s because in this day and age filled with materialism and greed, In a world where it’s not surprising to find the majority looking out for themselves he bypassed all of that and stood for a cause that was about more than just himself.
Crack you visit these blogs and make your statements; some good, some not so good but at the end of the day you have the right to stand by those comments and your beliefs and you should be able to do so without anyone telling you your opinion is stupid (which really doesn’t happen but still)
Knowing this I think you should understand why what you just suggested is wrong on so many levels.
It isn’t about whether the war or even if he was right or wrong, it’s about the fact that he had the courage to put other peoples needs before his wants and to stand by his beliefs and ultimately die for them. For crissakes the man is a human being crack.
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Sep 4, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
But the reason people make a big deal of it doesn’t have anything to do with the war at all,
Completely agree.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow.
What an embarrassing comment. You know back in the day professional athletes used to go fight in wars all the time, some of them the reason that you get to sit here and make baseless assumptions about why Revis should make 15 million dollars to play a game. Those stupid idiots.
I really don't fault Pat
No, wasn’t down with either war myself. That’s besides the point. The point was he was making a sacrifice. He left millions and gave his life because he thought he was doing the right thing. If his country was wrong as a whole that’s something we have to own for permitting it to happen.
The man gave everything including his life and the country betrayed him in multiple ways. Now what does he get as an eternal reward? Comparisons to football squabbles, and some kid on the internet insulting what once was a man just because of the partisan nature of the Country.
Stupid? Guess there’s no accounting for bravery, or being a man when things go bad. What have we sacrificed in our lives? Or is your point that you’re so comfortable that anybody who willfully gives something similar up MUST be stupid, instead of people more like you and me just being terrible wastes of human beings.
Don’t understand why you would +1 me elsewhere if this is truly what you believe.
+8 million
Embarrassing is the perfect word. Embarrassing to read. Embarrassing to respond to. Embarrassing to similar fans and nonpartisan people like Tillman who were apolitical in their mission.
I’ve read some truly disgusting opinions elsewhere on the net but that one takes the taco here.
Whats offensive is the invocation of a Pat Tillman or any soldier...
a basis to disparage an evil that you helped to create and continue to support. Do I really think that Tillman was a stupid moron? No. I respect him for what he did. But I said what i said mostly to make a point.
Guys like Jason L make these moronic posts and look down their noses and scoff at players who want their fair share of the millions that they help to perpetuate. Its people like Jason L and all the rest of us that create these salaries. We’re the ones that plop down on our couches to watch the beer commercials in between snaps. We’re the ones buy the jerseys and visit the blogs and generate all this cash in order for these athletes to entertain us.
Lets stop pretending that we don’t work for a profit ourselves. The invocation of Tilman or the like as some altruistic aspirational figure is as hipocritical as it is ridiculous. And has no business being thrust into a discusion regarding the salary of an entertainer.
reality check
I sometimes read that Revis should get all he can get because the team can cut him at any time.
Wow…boo hoo
Welcome to OUR world star athelete
I know that it may come as a shock to you Darrelle…but that is the reality all your fans live with day in and day out.
I may get fired if I do not produce
Why are you above it?
Please someone answer this question to me
because really I do not get it
Why should your pay be guaranteed?
Then all the NFL divas can pull Albert Haynesworth attitudes
If darrelle accepts “ONLY” the money offered
Maybe the Jets can sign other players as well.
Or maybe the Jets should pay him all the money he wants and Revis can play WR too
Does Revis have ANY IDEA what the average fan makes?
Please do not try for one second to get sympathy for Revis
This is why fans play Fantasy football
Yeah, I want the Jets to win
but guess what life still goes on if Revis does not come in
I hope he sits out for 3 years
Maybe he really wil have to work in a shoe store
Yeah, and he had $20,000,000 guaranteed if he hadn’t screwed around. It’s just hard for me to feel for someone who makes 7 figures. I don’t care if one injury can end their career. Roofers have the same problem and don’t have a pile of cash big enough to let them live comfortably for THE REST OF THEIR LIVES.
Cmon people. Be serious and think about what you're saying.
Revis is in big business. He’s a highly skilled and unique talent. His talent is in such demand and is so profitable that organizations offer him MILLIONS for his performance.
Lets stop with the Average Joe comparisons. Average Joes don’t make his kinda money because thousands of people can do what they do.
And the average roofer, mechanic, contractor, jeweller, etc are professional con-men and rip-off artists.
Revis is asking for fair compensation in accordance with the market. Whether you like the market or not is irrelevant. The market is the market. His salary demands are not even out of step with other top defenders in the league. And “the greatest defensive mind in football” was red-faced in trembling outrage over the absolute TRAVESTY that Revis was passed over for DPOY. So what Revis is asking for isn’t too much by any stretch.
Reports
Think about the economics of team Crack. Can the Jets afford to pay it? Yes. Can they afford to pay everybody? No. They have a budget. They have to pay a whole boatload of people, loans and leases. If they give Revis Sixteen mil a year, kiss the defense goodby. Because they would not be able to pay Harris, or any other good player. The backups will be cheapest you can find. I dont know if you know this but a team can be beat badly when the backups play and you cannot play your first all the time.
It does not make sense to give all the money to one guy.
Jets green since 1997
Can the Jets afford to pay it? Yes. Can they afford to pay everybody? No. They have a budget. They have to pay a whole boatload of people, loans and leases. If they give Revis Sixteen mil a year, kiss the defense goodby
This uncapped year.
As far as “operating expenses” and “budgets” the Jets are worth 1.1 billion dollars. The budget they set involves an anticipated level of profit. Referring to budgets that are set by ownership isn’t really a determinative.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
What are you basing this on? What IS the budget? The team is aready offering him 12M per. How many people are they signing for the 4M difference? Where do people get this idea that nobody else can be signed if they re-sign Revis? Thats such BS.
The budget is set by ownership. To put it simply: I can pay x amount because I want y amount in my pocket.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. Saying that the team can afford but just arbitrarily refuses to is a direct slap in the face to the fans who you’ve worked into a Superbowl frenzy.
What I don’t get is how everyone is so pissed at Revis because he isn’t respecting the “working man” who would die for his contract, but are not pissed at the billionaire who cares not a drop for the “working man”, except as a consumer of his football product. Why is the billionaire the good guy, and the millionaire the bad guy? Is it that Revis actually gets paid, but Johnson just owns stuff?
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly… I think they are so used to being exploited that they think “these athletes” should step up and be exploited too. That they should “take it like a man.” Its a “how dare they question authority” kind of mentality. They think they should be happy with their millions because they’re lucky it was given to them for “playing a game.”
Its a refusal to acknowledge that there’s an element of fairness and power involved because of the incomprehensible money involved. “Bend over and let them screw you, you’re a millionaire anyway.”
There’s more than money involved in this tug of war. There’s principles and honor. Revis is standing for what he’s worth and he’s holding the Jets to their word.
by Crackback on Sep 3, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Honestly… I think they are so used to being exploited that they think "these athletes" should step up and be exploited too. That they should "take it like a man." Its a "how dare they question authority" kind of mentality.
Not to get too heavy about it, but I totally agree. The “working man” is conditioned to seeing himself (or herself) in competition ONLY with other working men, and to not gaze to owners for concepts of equity. Working men fans compare themselves to Revis and ask “is this fair?” but do not, cannot compare themselves to Woody and ask “is this fair?” The very rich simply are not to be questioned. Everything they do is a gift to us.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
so...
if you people are going to make it look like Revis and these players are slaves for making millions of dollars…then you, the working man can go outside New Meadowlands Stadium and look like complete lunatics with signs that say “Pay the Slave”. Let’s see how far that gets you in the realm of common sense.
It has nothing to do with slaves. It has to do with working under conditions that you view as fair, and reserving the right to refuse to work if the conditions don’t suit you. You can quit you job and the government cannot force you to work.
Unless you think that billionaires are angels, I don’t know why you would object.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think billionaires are angels, but I don’t think multi-millionaires with greedy agents are either.
Sure. Two bad guys.
But one guy has all the money, so when he cries poverty I would like you to role your eyes just the same.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry "roll"
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
you’re only saying that because it’s an uncapped year. But if it was capped, i’m quite sure you wouldn’t be comfortable about giving into his demands.
Demands which also might I add, extend beyond this uncapped season.
But it IS an uncapped year
Which means that if it were not about guaranteed money and bonuses, they have incredible flexibility to get a deal done. They can load this year with some inventiveness, I’m sure. Its about money out of Woody’s pocket.
If it were a capped year all the talk about restrictions would have more traction.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
But one guy has all the money,
I’m sorry do millions and millions of dollars now not count as money?
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Sep 4, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m sorry do millions and millions of dollars now not count as money?
When you own a business, you have all the money. You decide what happens to the money that all the fans are giving to you when buying your product.
How much money of Woody’s is Revis making right now? None. Woody has all the (fan’s) money.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
you see
like the “working man”, NFL players have a union that negotiate terms of labor with the owners. In both cases, the workers have both the perspective of comparing themselves against their colleagues and what share of the revenue the workers as a whole are getting from the company. The latter is why the 2011-2012 season will probably not happen.
If Revis thinks that he deserves to get a new contract and become the highest paid at his position, he is comparing himself to NA. This is itself a faulty comparison. NA got a 3 year deal when he was approaching FA. Revis has 3 years left.
Now you can say that Revis thinks that since NFL contracts aren’t guaranteed, he should have the right to demand his fair share of the pie, in the form of a massive contract with a lot of guaranteed money. If he gets hurt the team can cut him and he will not earn all the money on his contract. Well guess what, this is the way the collective bargaining agreement was set up. Who signed that agreement? The NFL players association! If Revis and other players want full guaranteed contracts like in MLB or NBA, they should demand their union negotiate such an agreement with the owners. The cards are stacked in favor of the teams because the players union failed.
by secret defense on Sep 4, 2010 3:05 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well guess what, this is the way the collective bargaining agreement was set up. Who signed that agreement?
It doesn’t mean that Revis does not have the right to strike, nor that the CBA was not negotiated by the players with the understanding of this right. One cannot compare NFL labor deals to let’s say Teamster labor deals because at the top of the labor chain are irreplaceable members, players of unique skill and talent upon which the game turns and owners make all their money. In most labor situations labor bands together because ALL of the members are relatively replaceable. They bound by the CBA, and their powers are expressed by the CBA because NONE of them have the real power of striking by themselves and leveraging change. This is simply not the case in professional sports. Individual players have a power of holding out and leveraging the pie that simply is not the case of other labor organizations.
It does not mean that the CBA is not honored, but it does mean that players have powers of labor action that is not confined to the CBA.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with this
but my main point was that workers do compare themselves to the owners and demand their fair share. They do question if they are being exploited. The impending lockout is proof of that.
by secret defense on Sep 4, 2010 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
but my main point was that workers do compare themselves to the owners and demand their fair share. They do question if they are being exploited.
Of course they do. But for some reason the “working man” argument provided by fans who get pissed and say things like “he should consider himself lucky” or “let him rot” or “slap in the face, who is he kidding” VERY seldom take this into account. The only person who is greedy is a worker who wants more than another worker might have, and never an owner who has many times more than any worker will ever have, even a top player.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 5, 2010 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Working men fans compare themselves to Revis and ask "is this fair?" but do not, cannot compare themselves to Woody and ask "is this fair?" The very rich simply are not to be questioned. Everything they do is a gift to us.
I couldn’t disagree more, IMO that is not how those who disagree with Revis see things at all.
My thinking is Revis new the score before coming into the game. His uncle was a player so he should have more insight than most into an NFL contract
…my point being that a contract is an honor bound commitment, and no matter how fucked up said contract is, If you sign that contract you abide by it. If you didn’t like it, shouldn’t have been an idiot and signed it.
There are tons of talented dudes out there in the CFL, UFL and other obscure leagues, even dudes bagging groceries ala’ Kurt Warner who are talented enough to play but don’t catch a break. Revis has the opportunity to play football for a living, that in itself is a gift; a gift he does to deserve to be compensated for but still a gift.
I root for players…I think fans root for players, because they do amazing things most aren’t able to. Not only that but the fact that in the end they are just people like you and me. Maybe you even went to school with one of these guys or sat down with them at the bar.
They go thru so much to perform every week and leave it all on the line.
I can relate to Darelle Revis but…
Can Darelle relate to us anymore???
These players in the end for all their hard work are rich themselves. Forget a kicker even a practice squad player who never sees the field earns $300,000 a year…oh and that kicker who probably sees the field if lucky once per drive…he’s probably a millionare with avg salaries in the NFL at 1.3 M…more than enough to feed a family.
These dudes are well compensated for what most of us would do for free in our spare time so does Revis deserve to be paid fairly? Sure. Does he have the right to bitch, complain, pout and renege on his contract…his word…his honor bound commitment? Sure. Would he be right in doing so and should he not expect criticism? No. No. unequivocally no.
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Sep 4, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Revis has the opportunity to play football for a living, that in itself is a gift; a gift he does to deserve to be compensated for but still a gift.
This is the mentality that drives me crazy. The notion that the players are somehow not deserving.
NO. Its NOT a gift. Its a SKILL. Its a skill that is highly unique and highly marketable. Its skill that millions of people clamor to see. And its a skill that has a value.
You’re trying to make the case that he is so highly compensated for this skill that, even if he’s being ripped off, he’s still making out way better than the common man. That he should count his blessings and be thankful, even if he’s being fleeced.
I’m baffled that you’ll actually go to bat for the crook in this scenario. The guy who’s sitting on his mountain of gold coins, pricing you out of his brand new palace, and trying to convince you that Revis should take less than he’s worth so that player’s X, Y and Z can get paid what they’re worth.
And then you are so blinded and twisted that you actually defend this ludicrous position. You actually try to convince yourselves that he’s not worth what he’s asking for because some QB’s contract signed 7 years ago. You actually try to convince yourselves that he’s not that good and that it was ALL the coach. You try to tell yourselves that his historical season was a fluke. You actually begin to believe that this team can be just as good, if not better, without him.
You people absolutely baffle me.
David Harris
has a skill too. He is making much less money than Revis, with much less time left on his contract. He also plays a real mans position where he actually might get hurt. Same with Mangold. Did they hold out? Nope, and they actually would have had leverage.
@Crackback
You’re trying to make the case that he is so highly compensated for this skill that, even if he’s being ripped off, he’s still making out way better than the common man. That he should count his blessings and be thankful, even if he’s being fleeced.
That’s the thing. When it comes down to it, this is the fan’s money. They buy the product. I don’t see why the fans fail to see that their money goes endlessly into the owner’s pocket, but when it goes into the player’s pocket they should be just satisfied with whatever the owner decides is enough.
Again and again you hear people say, “You should be happy enough with x amount of dollars.” but never do you hear this being said about owners. Owners can be as greedy as they want, its what owning is all about.
It is the difference between working for a living (you should be satisfied, you are lucky to have that job), and owning stuff (everyone is just trying to take from you what is rightfully yours). Brainwashing that serves people that own stuff and got people working for them. There is no greed at the top.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not that we don't want to see the players get paid.
There is a FUCKING SALARY CAP. This isn’t the Yankees. We’re no saying we wish Woody would keep all the money, we’re saying we want to have a good team.Holy shit.
There is a FUCKING SALARY CAP. This isn’t the Yankees.
This is an UNCAPPED YEAR dude. You would have to explain to me how it is impossible to compensate him in an uncapped year with bonuses.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
…my point being that a contract is an honor bound commitment, and no matter how fucked up said contract is, If you sign that contract you abide by it. If you didn’t like it, shouldn’t have been an idiot and signed it.
This is just working-man speak in my view, the mentality that is used by corporate structures to control those that sign contracts. Corporations have no allegiances to contracts and will break them in any a way that they can (legally and if possible illegally). Speaking of “commitment” as if it is a personal honor code when there is a human being on only ONE side of the relationship is, well, self-imprisoning. Yes, corporations want you to think and feel that way, they way their contracts with you – to which they have no allegiance other than what the law forces them to do – bind you at the psychological level.
If Revis was something more than psychologically bound (by your sense of honor and commitment) he would be sued. And he is not being sued.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
There are tons of talented dudes out there in the CFL, UFL and other obscure leagues, even dudes bagging groceries ala’ Kurt Warner who are talented enough to play but don’t catch a break.
Then get one of these dudes to win the MVP of the league. Great idea.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Revis never won MVP of shit.
Kurt Warner did though.
Yeah, so load your team up with CFL players great idea.
oops, we just cut Foley.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, just load your team up with hold out players
who you end up paying above market value too, good idea.
I'll take a team of probowlers threatenging to hold out
before I’ll take a team of ex-CFLers, that’s for sure.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
These players in the end for all their hard work are rich themselves. Forget a kicker even a practice squad player who never sees the field earns $300,000 a year…oh and that kicker who probably sees the field if lucky once per drive…he’s probably a millionare with avg salaries in the NFL at 1.3 M…more than enough to feed a family.
Do you think you could feed a family on the 3.5 billion that Woody Johnson is worth?
Why did he and a few of his buds try to scam the IRS out of 300 million dollars? I guess he couldn’t feed his family.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Its called the law dude.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
What does that have to do with anything?
Maybe he should just pay that 300 million to Revis, since you know, Revis wants it. Maybe that could buy us 2 holdout free years.
It shows that he is likely
a). Dishonest (and his version of events or positions in this negotiation cannot be trusted).
Greedy."Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
that is b/. Greedy.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Could it be Woody and the Jets know that the owners next year are looking to reduce the player percentage of revenues in the new CBA by 10 to 20%. Woody has sat in on the owners meetings and knows how hard hard-nosed they will be. This means that instead of having a higher salary cap for each team it will be will have a lower cap by 10 to 20%. A team that this year would have a cap of 125 million for this year (if it existed) would have a cap of 112.5 to 100 million next year. Contracts put in place this year would still be effected by the new cap. That is why ALL negotiations this year have been so difficult. This is why there is no Revis deal. Please address this issue. Thank you.
Re: Honoring the contract
Most employment contracts, NFL or otherwise are not guaranteed. There will be a line somewhere that says “the employer reserves the right, at any time and for any reason, to terminate this agreement.” Now granted, many of those contracts are at will and not for a set term but many set term contracts come with that language as well. Revis presumably was aware of the fact that his contract would not be fully guaranteed and despite that he still signed it of his free will. That signature said he was willing to honor the provisions of the contract that he WILLINGLY signed, even those that say the Jets can break it.
Most people, myself included, don’t dispute the fact that he is criminally underpaid (presuming he maintains his numbers from last year, and we’ve seen nothing to indicate either way whether that is the case), but the argument that he has no obligation to honor the deal just because the Jets can end it on their terms doesn’t hold much water. And Al Davis set the market ridiculously high with a CB who was AT THE END OF HIS DEAL, not in the middle of a contract that he already held out for.
At this point I would just swallow his pride a little bit and come back, he has to realize his image is taking a beating. Saying the offer was a slap in the face is very disingenuous when the economy is in the shitter. And don’t tell me that shouldn’t or doesn’t matter because it does, at least from a PR standpoint. Saying things like that and Revis earlier quote about not being able to feed his family doesn’t really endear you to people. Whatever else, it is clear that the Revis Camp has no appreciation about how to win the PR side of this. if his people had just been calm and kept mostly quiet and not made comments like this, Woody would have caved under the massive wave of fan support for Darelle. But when you say things like this to a fan base that might be struggling to keep a job, well, you get what we have now
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Sep 3, 2010 4:54 PM EDT reply actions
Holding out is nothing more than STRIKING.
And when someone is striking (especially when one of the parties is a Billioniare, and the other guy is a Millionaire), there is no real appeal to “honor”. People strike because they feel that they are under unfair working conditions.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll agree to disagree
I think comparing unfair working conditions (unpaid overtime, few sick days, poor safety standards, etc.) that lead to a strike to squabbling over extra millions is a terrible comparison but I come from a union household so that’s just me. I take your point; I don’t think it works but I can see the argument.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Sep 3, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the one quote from Grandma that has me
thinking a little bit differently than most of the comments here:
I think he’s comfortable with his decision [to hold out] because he knows what he was told by the Jets and he knows what he’s worth.
The truth is I suspect that the Jets at some time told Revis something about the nature of his potential contract, or the level of his worth that Revis feels they have gone back on. We all don’t know what this was, but it seems that camp Revis is holding the Jets to something they said, and what they said was probably not “We want to re-work your contract”. It was probably something of the order, don’t worry, we’ll take care of you and make you the highest paid corner, or some such, something they regret or feel that they being misinterpreted on.
Of course this is speculation on my part, but what has made this negotiation intense is not merely greed, but I suspect given the way that the Jets deal with vets (see Faneca, see Clemens, see Washington), or at least are perceived as dealing with them – gee that 500,000 they saved on Clemens was a very expensive piece of bad PR with the team, making the Jets look cheap, and even a bit cruel – Revis is holding the Jets in principle to something they told him a while back. Through a variety of moves the Jets have built an image of “bad cop” in the front office to Rex’s “good cop”, giving teammates the sense that as much as Rex seems to care, the front office where the Bank is, is exactly the opposite. The front office in fact does not have your back in the least, they will hardball you into a corner, and if you ever have any advantage over them you better use it.
If the primary message from the front office “I will cut you.” (its a business), then the natural player response is “I will hold out.” (it’s a business). They are reciprocal positions of power, with only guaranteed money laying in between.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 5:09 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
but that's how every team operates
there is no such thing as loyalty in the NFL. It’s all about what can you do for me now. The Jets generally are no different than any other team in how it treats players. If the players don’t understand this basic tenet of the business, then it’s their stupidity.
by secret defense on Sep 4, 2010 3:09 AM EDT up reply actions
If the players don’t understand this basic tenet of the business, then it’s their stupidity.
And that is why they exercise their power to strike. They would be stupid not to. That is how the NFL works as well.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
but can he walk in 3 years?
Maybe I am wrong but I think if Revis sits for 3 years he still can not walk as he has not enough time played in the NFL
Isn’t this true?
If he comes back now there is no way he will be as good as last year.
Let him sit
4 years
He lost a year when he didn’t report on the deadline so the jets own his ass for 4 years not 3. That makes it even worse for mevis if the jets truly want to play hard ball. But I think they would trade him and get some value. Would be awesome for a 1st and a 3rd round and a hungry young CB from that team that rex can develop, but that’s a dream. I would send him to a struggling team and see if he can be football revis and do it all by himself. If not he would be in mediocrity for years.
more then that
If they got two #1’s for Keyshawn< i think they could get more for Revis
The ridiculous amount of money he’s asking for is going to limit his trade value though. What team is going to want to give Revis that kind of money, PLUS throw in some high draft picks? He might even be untradeable.
Buster Posey: Let's enjoy him before he goes to the Yankees.
by rxmeister on Sep 3, 2010 5:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Look, this has gotten to a point where I’m just sick.. Who the hell does MEvis think he his? He’s got absolutely no leverage at all, not with 3 years left on his deal..To hold out of training camp with 3 years left on his deal asking what he’s asking for is a joke.. Unless u r retarded, You would know that the Asomugha contract quite simply may be the worst contract in NFL history (Courtesy of Al Davis) Now we can’t really blame Al Davis, because lets face it the engine is running, but there is no one behind the wheel and he has made numerous horrible decisions in the past which goes without saying.. But Revis, According to grandma, really knows how to read a contract and should know this.. This just shows you how selfish he really is, and cares nothing about the team or keeping as many of them together as possible..
He’s got absolutely no leverage at all, not with 3 years left on his deal..
The leverage he has is simple. S-U-P-E-R-B-O-W-L.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
Except...
Those of us who are realistic and aren’t eating out of the hype machine (like the front office) know that the odds of us going to a SuperBowl WITH Revis is pretty low this year. Our quarterback is STILL a baby, our O-line is weaker than last year and our offense is full of question marks. Our secondary is in serious trouble at the moment. We have a rookie (who will be fantastic EVENTUALLY) and Cromatie who is also a huge question mark.
We BARELY made the playoffs last year and while I believe we could have beaten the Colts with Manning in, we didn’t. Atlanta, Miami, Jacksonville, Buffalo… all pretty epic fails. Atlanta and Buffalo being the worst of the group.
I think Rex Ryan is going to take this team far over time. I think Sanchez is going to be a good QB in a year or two. I’ll be cheering us every game this year, but do I think we’re going to the Superbowl? We certainly could, but we’re not the Colts or the Pats and Revis isn’t Manning or Brady. We don’t have seasons of consistency behind us and this idea the Superbowl is in our immediate future because we eeked by last year is a joke.
Look at the Steelers this year after WINNING a Superbowl.
Revis has very little to bargain with and, unfortunately, has been buying the hype and trying to use it to bargain with stone cold businessmen who know better.
Errr… Steelers last year.
And let me add, since I don’t know the details of where contracts are breaking down, I don’t really have an opinion on who is right and who is wrong. I simply don’t think Revis opted to negotiate from a position even resembling strength.
Revis: “I was on the cover of Sports Illustrated. You need me.”
Front office: “You are aware of the fact that this isn’t our first rodeo, right?”
Revis: "I was on the cover of Sports Illustrated. You need me."
Front office: "You are aware of the fact that this isn’t our first rodeo, right?"
Revis: When was the last Superbowl you won? I forgot?
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Those of us who are realistic and aren’t eating out of the hype machine (like the front office) know that the odds of us going to a SuperBowl WITH Revis is pretty low this year.
Unfortunately…or perhaps if you are a Jet fan who likes things that improve the worth of a team, you guys are not the guys who buy most of the jerseys, or most of the PSLs, or any of the other money generating stuff that puts money in Woody’s pocket.
Whether it is realistic or not, with Revis the Jets have a product they can sells as Superbowl contenders, and without, not a chance (in terms of product selling).
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah that was a bad choice of words. But I will go to bat for JB vehemently on this. He did NOT mean it in that way. It was a poor choice of words, but he clearly was referring to Revis’ camp, and not any broader segment of the population.
I didn't mean to imply anything about John
in fact I was more teasing than anything else.
But in our culture it’s a terrible choice of words.
You mean the imposed culture of thought police mandating what we’re allowed to say?
That’s just what this thread needed: a baseless accusation meant to ignite a race issue. Honestly, where do people find the time to hunt for and manufacture this sort of crap?
by nationalist88 on Sep 4, 2010 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
As if accusing someone of race bating doesn’t exacerbate what you’d supposedly avoid.
Hypocritical drama queens ftl.
You tried to create an issue out of absolutely nothing. And you know damn well JB didn’t mean it that way, (as if he’s not entitled to his own opinion even if he did). I’m asking what because IDK what FTL means, or why you’re saying drama queen when you’re the one raising an issue here.
And if you’re not accusing anyone of anything, why did you bring it up in the first place?
by nationalist88 on Sep 6, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Dollar Revi$
From now on that’s his name.
and the home of the... JETS!!!
www.ganggreennation.com
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
post season
Sit revis for the length of his current contract,remember the only way the Jets made the playoffs is that 2 count’em 2 teams laid down at the end of teh season. They should have finished 7 and 9 and not made the playoffs. Revis will not put this team back into the playoffs, just like in the past the Jets will finish 3rd in the east.
What we don't know about Revis situation
Could it be Woody and the Jets know that the owners next year are looking to reduce the player percentage of revenues in the new CBA by 10 to 20%. Woody has sat in on the owners meetings and knows how hard hard-nosed they will be. This means that instead of having a higher salary cap for each team it will be will have a lower cap by 10 to 20%. A team that this year would have a cap of 125 million for this year (if it existed) would have a cap of 112.5 to 100 million next year. Contracts put in place this year would still be effected by the new cap. That is why ALL negotiations this year have been so difficult. This is why there is no Revis deal. Please address this issue. Thank you.
Clarification Please
I have a question, has Revis forfeited his accrued year towards free agency yet? If so then isn’t he under perpetual contract with the Jets, meaning in 3 years he’s still not a free agent because he hasn’t fulfilled his obligation under the current CBA? So until he starts honoring his contract, he will continue to owe the Jets 3 more years…is that correct?
Can’t he return before game 10? I swear I remember what’s his name holding out in Seattle when he was the ONLY good player in Seattle holding out till game 10 and coming back so he wouldn’t lose a game. But thats years ago.
Trevor Gillies: Giving an all new meaning to "Mustache Ride"
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Found it, Joey Gallaway held out in 99 and came back for the last 8 games because otherwise he would have pushed the contract back a year.
Trevor Gillies: Giving an all new meaning to "Mustache Ride"
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Is that the same CBA
Thanx for your answer, but I’m wondering if they’re operatiing under the same CBA.
by DatJetFanDude on Sep 3, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
From Wiki
The current CBA has been in place since 1993, and was amended in 1998 and again in 2006
Trevor Gillies: Giving an all new meaning to "Mustache Ride"
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
What no one is saying is this is the contract that Revis held out for. So he knows with the upfront money he received he would only be receiving 1 million this year. Now lets say the Jets give him 16 mil for 10 years. Do any of you out there truly believe that Revis won’t want to renegotiate his contract after 5 years or so because top corners will be making 19 mil per?
by metweezer@aol.com on Sep 3, 2010 9:22 PM EDT reply actions
"only pay him 12M per"
Are you kidding me? GTFO here
How much is Woody "only" making?
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
12M per is an insulting offer to a player like Revis.
Even worse — is 12M per over TEN YEARS!!!
ROFLMAO
You guys talk like 12 million dollars is monopoly money. It’s 12 million dollars, come on…if you worked for Proctor and Gamble are you concerned how much money they’re bringing in to justify what you bring home? NO! Just as long as you’re fairly compensated.
by DatJetFanDude on Sep 3, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah dude, why think about how much money is being made off your talents?
Revis’s whole point is that he is not fairly compensated, given the value of his talents. He has the right to strike.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
NO YOU DON'T
Not when you were on strike in the first place to get the contract you got, you don’t. IMO
by DatJetFanDude on Sep 3, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
You strike when you have the power to do so.
The contract was negotiated in the context of the players power to strike. It was not as if the Jets did not understand this. A worker continually reserves the right to say, “I’m not working under these conditions, if you want someone else to work for you, go ahead and hire them.” The employer does not just say “Get back to work!!!!”
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions
kv and Crackback, IMO Revis days with the Jets are over, unless he accepts an offer on the table. There HAS to be some sort of trust between employer and employee, and none exists here. To say “let’s re-work your contract” IS NOT promising to make one the highest paid athlete at that position. Let you go on strike twice and see what happens
You have no idea what was said, so quoting a non-existent quote makes little sense. It seems though that the trust was broken by the Jets. I wonder how much Clemens trusts the Jets now.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
you're saying it seems as if trust was broken by the Jets
it very well could have been jibberish and mudslinging by his agents. And this is based on the agents’ history.
It think its combined.
But maybe it was Clemens agents’ fault that the Jets tore up his contract.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
your sarcasm about Clemen’s agents aside, you can’t believe it trust was broken and the claim is jibberish by the agents. It’s one or the other.
I don't like Revis's agents
But I don’t like the Jets dealings with their own players even more.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
It looks bad BUT
Trying to draw implications on a meeting that, I’m sure, took longer than what was shown on tape is like telling me what the weather will be tomorrow in NY because of what it is today in Cali, you can’t. I’m sure there was more to those meetings between Clemens and Mike T than what was aired. It’s only an hour show. It made the Jet’s look bad, but the Jet’s isn’t the only team in the NFL that has a hard bottom line.
by DatJetFanDude on Sep 3, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
It was the end result that matters.
The Jets cornered Clemens in several ways, one of which was waiting to restrict his options to join another club.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
you make it sound like
there was such a master plan that took months in the making to humiliate him. Do you really think they’re going to care that much about 1 player who has underperformed?
A masterplan. The plan was simple. Instead of letting him search for teams that might want him, they held him until rosters were set, and then they went to him and said, “Hey, we have a deal for you. You want to be out of work, or do you want to play for half the money you thought we were going to play you?”
Nice guys. Good faith guys. Play like Jets!
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
and you’re saying their motivation is a power trip from the FO and not for the 500,000. Sounds like a conspiracy to me.
It was a heartless chessmove.
Showing that they care less about players.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Revis is one of the best players at his position in the league.
Clemens is one of the worst players at his position in the league.
1 player has negotiating power in this, 1 player does not. I wonder why.
Trevor Gillies: Giving an all new meaning to "Mustache Ride"
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
And when you squeeze down on the guy with no power to save some insignificant amount of money, just think what tactics you would use when actual money that matters is at stake?
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
this is not the quote I have been talking about, but its from the same conversation
In the quote I recall Woody practically laughs when referring to things said that are not “put on paper” as if he is not bound by what has been said by himself or his front office. I can’t find the exact quote in video, but this one communicates something of the attitude. Notice who Woody, in his tennis whites, just grins and smirks when talking about negotiations, and how hard a time he has spitting out anything of value for the player. He almost can’t say it.
Its got to be something for the team because we have a three year contract, it has to be something that represents value for the team, something we can live with, and you know, um, you know, something I gue— something has to be for the player.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
And this is the quote (found by crackback) I had in mind
"I don’t think he was promised anything, as far as I know. And the wonderful thing about a contract is that verbals don’t mean anything because that’s the whole point of writing something down.
"So if somebody inadvertently said something — which I don’t think they did — it really has no merit. […]
"He has a contract that has three years left on that contract. [And] we are a country that runs on contracts."
To my ear the Jets said something that they regret and Woody refuses to be bound by it. I don’t know what it was, his denials ring completely evasive and deceptive.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
you don't think
he’s saying that under the context that they promised to redo his contract? It looks painfully obvious that that was the case.
Why would he be talking about a promise to redo the contract when they are currently redoing the contract??? It makes not sense.
He is saying, bumbling, stumbling trying to say, something was said, but I’m not bound by it. That something was NOT “We will redo your contract” because that is what they are currently doing.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
because
Revis wants them to redo it to make him the highest paid player. And Woody is saying ‘I don’t have to make you the highest paid player, you’re under contract. I’m doing you a favor by offering to redo it, but I don’t have to.’
And Revis is saying:
Fine. You want to act like a scumbag, then Im not playing.
That is what he is saying
But he is also saying, if you pay attention, that OTHER things have been said, but I am not bound by them.
1. There is a supposed promise to something which was not promised “as far as I know” (whatever that means).
2. There were “verbals” which (if they existed – talk about lawyer speak) don’t matter.
3. There is something that supposedly was said “inadvertently”, but he doesn’t think that it was, but even if it was it has “no merit”.
4. And then there is an appeal to patriotism. We are country of contracts. We’ll we are also a county of labor disputes and strikes that help limit the power of contracts.
All of this is double-speak and frankly, dishonest sounding.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
1) It’s the promise of a new contract.
and
3) You mean “inadvertently” saying they were going to definitely redo his contract? Because if they knew he was going to demand ELITE QB money, they wouldn’t have done it?
You don’t get it, they are redoing his contract. They are just refusing his terms. Obviously Revis felt that the contract was “inadvertantly” or by “verbals” maybe “promised” to be at a certain level.
Woody is going back on these “verbals” (which he half-denies exist). He basically is saying “nah, nah you can’t catch me, you didn’t get it in writing”.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think you get it.
a contract isn’t ‘redone’, unless both parties accept the terms and sign on the line.
Of course it is redone if one of the parties strikes.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
or to put it another way
It was not MERELY that they would redo his contract, it was that the contract would be redone at a certain level, or at least giving Revis that impression. And Woody has gone back on those “verbals”.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
What does he mean “as far as I know”. Why would he not know what was promised. The very qualification means deception (or incompetence) There was a promise or there was not a promise. There is no “as far as I know”. Does he not trust Mr. T? Does he suspect that Mr. T did promise something to Revis, but isn’t telling him?
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
because they said they'd redo his contract. It's that simple.
You don’t think that’s the real “promise” you think he’s going back on? The guy is practically threatening to leave him at his current contract. That’s HIS leverage.
I still don't get what you are saying.
The Jets are not being accused of going back on the redo of Revis’s contract. They are being accused of going back on some feature or aspect of redoing it.
And Woody is not threatening to leave Revis in his current contract. Revis has already accepted that by going on strike.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Because the Jets said they’d redo his contract, Revis is putting them up to it, to the tune of 16M/ Highest paid. But the Jets don’t have to do that, because they have him under contract. The aspect is redoing his contract, because they CAN FOR THE RIGHT PRICE, but not for Revis’ price. That’s the whole ‘fair for the team’ part.
Woody is threatening to leave Revis in his current contract, because he doesn’t have to offer him a new one. Revis hasn’t accepted that fact because he is ‘on strike’.
Sure no problem.
When you go on strike you accept that you will not be paid. You are refusing the terms of employment.
But the “verbals” (inadvertent???) were not “we are going to redo your contract”. Nobody would refuse that such a statement was said.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I watched that three times
and I don’t see it. It looks like he’s trying to pander to the cameras because he’s definitely not a videocamera person, but other than that, I don’t see anything of value in that interview.
I found him cringe-worthy privileged, and utterly unable to admit that a player had any standing in the negotiation. He definitely was pandering to the cameras, but he is a spoiled brat of an older-gentleman.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
unless you’ve seen him in person or you’ve been watching his documentary or something, calling him a spoiled brat is going kinda far no? Unless he’s done something I don’t know about.
Maybe he isn’t able to admit that the player had any standing in the negotiation, it’s because he doesn’t. Because he’s UNDER CONTRACT.
I'm telling you my impressions.
It was big mistake going on the radio and tv that day in my opinion. It was a big media strategy to go on the offensive and make Woody the point man. He came off childish, rich and disconnected in my view, bad PR. I listened to his ESPN radio interview and watched the ESPN tv job.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe he is childish and rich
I didn’t see it in that interview, but that still doesn’t prove that somebody on the Jets’ side lied.
Sure. Then why admit/talk-about all kinds of things that “might” have happened.
Its like a kid who is caught stealing cookies, they come up with MULTIPLE denials, any one of which would suffice.
1. I didn’t steal a cookie, you imagined it.
2. It wasn’t a cookie I took.
3. Well, if I did take a cookie it was mine anyways.
When you reel off all sorts of variations, you have guilt.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Revis personifies all that's wrong with professional atheletes
Revis signed the contract his rookie year (which he held out for) knowing that his abilities could possibly surpass the value of the deal. You sign a contract, you honor it, DONE! And all those who are quick to point out "well a team can cut a player at anytime during the contract", those are the agreed upon rules between the league and the union. If an aspiring athlete doesn’t agree with those current rules in place, than don’t join the NFL. . You knew the in’s and out’s of the league before you decided to play. Does Revis deserve a raise? No doubt he does, but not at the cost he is asking. If I’m Woody or Mike T, I let him sit out the duration of his contract and see what his worth his after a few years out of the league when it expires.
You sign a contract, you honor it, DONE!
Not at all. You always reserve the right to quit a job that you don’t like.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
You have no idea how "small" the dispenency is, especially in terms of
guaranteed money. And you don’t know what was agreed in “verbals”.
Woody’s image is blemishless, because billionaires are not questionable.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I said alleged.
And I never said it was blemishless, I’m simply look at the histories of both the Jets and their agents and coming to a logical conclusion.
Then include the Clemens' dealings in your "logic".
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Woody Johnson: “and you know, um, you know, something I gue— something has to be for the player.”
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
are you saying
because he’s on a power trip that he’s cutting 500,000 from Clemen’s contract? Really?
I have asked you about 5 times to give me your interpretation
of the motivation. and each time you remain silent.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I gave you an explanation the first time.
I said it was to divert money to other investments like possibly oh I dunno….REVIS and his demands? If you’re working with a budget and you want something really bad, and you’re fiscally responsible, you cut the appropriate corners to get what you want.
You on the other hand still haven’t told me your explanation. Really? A power trip???
So you are saying that $500,000 is what stands between signing Revis or not? Are you joking?
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Because the Jets had the leverage to make Clemens take that cut.
It’s business, Revis has no leverage. Simple, really.
Revis has plenty of leverage.
And he is using it. Right. Now.
When the Jets are 0-3 get back to me.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
When the Jets are 3-0,
you can get back to me, and Revis will be getting back to the Jets too.
Rex ryan had number one defenses long before some queer named Darrelle Revis came along.
Rex ryan had number one defenses long before some queer named Darrelle Revis
Oh, you mean when he had Ray Lewis?
I guess you are right. How much did they pay Ray Lewis?
Was Ray Lewis from the CFL?
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember the Ravens leading the league in defense without Ray Lewis and Ed Reed.
Because Rex Ryan is a defensive mastermind. Ray Lewis also never held out and sabotaged his team for money.
It still wasn't the Jet defense.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
unless I missed your post, I still don’t have your explanation for the clemens deal. What do you mean that it was for ‘power’ and not profit?
and what do you make of the fact that Feinsod and Schwartz have a history of holding out, even when the player has a current contract?
And how do you explain their article that says that, if I remember correctly, should make him the highest paid CB?
1. It is perfectly in the right of a player (or any worker) to hold out. I do not hold this against a player.
2. If I was negotiating a position I would take the high number as my starting point. I have repeatedly said that I think that this “highest paid” number is a negotiation for the only thing that matters, guaranteed money.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I take the Clemens deal to reveal that the player’s welfare is of the LOWEST priority for a team, and that the Jets don’t even CARE if they come of that way to other players. They were willing to make an example of what happens when they have the advantage. Their motivations were simple. They wanted to save a tiny bit of money (because Mr. T is an accountant and values every bit of “in the black” numbers as a plus), and to have the edge in a roster spot. It was a chess move from Tannenbaum, and he probably thought himself pretty smart for it. It didn’t matter to him one bit how it effected the player, and unfortunately how it reflected upon the team in the eyes of other players. In this I think it was a mistake. Whether there was a bit of pleasure taken in forcing Clemens into this chess move maneuver, I can only guess, but yes, I suspect that Mr. T enjoys these kinds of moves and the fact that he doesn’t have to value the player as a person. I think he likes playing fantasy football with real human beings, and being REALLY good at it.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
not out of the realm of possibility, but still screams conspiracy to me. It’s not like the 500,000 goes into his pocket.
Sure, it very well might’ve been a chess move, that ‘every bit’ of money will add up to something right? It could amount to several millions that could make up a discrepancy in a contract, right?
come on now. Save 500,000 so that one day you can pay Revis 140 million????
You don’t even sound sane.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't beat me
I think the reason they cut Clemens salary was because they did not want him to be paid more then Brunell. There is a part to all of this that is missing with Clemens…he is really not that good. He is not even as good as Leinart but he is a more mature person. That is why he will be able to (even at $500.000/year over 10 years (for instance) he could be paid 5 mil for a career where he sits on the bench wins a SB or two and jokes around with Sanchez, I mean think of his life…he goes and visits Favre…He is buddies with all these palyers…what a job!!!!!!
WHY ARE WE CRYING FOR HIM??…
This has gotten really silly.
It seems like some people (I do not specifically know who but just from the tone of some posts) want to bash management for being….management
by KZL on Sep 4, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Clemens wants an opportunity to start, or at least be the 2nd guy in line.
The Jets manuvered to ensure that that would never happen. The right thing to do would be to present him with that “proposal” at the beginning of camp so that he can go and seek a job as the number 2 elsewhere. By waiting until the time that they did, they removed any realistic possibility that he could catch on with another team as the number 2. They basically stole 500k from him. And players are so worried about being perceived as somebody thats “not a team guy” that they usually just chop off their sacks and bend over to “take one for the team.” Clemens, like many others, are systematically exploited.
It sheds light onto the way the Jets do business. They will strong arm and exploit you for every last nickel. Its no coincidence that they low-balled Revis and are using the bully pulpit to create the perception that he’s a selfish and greedy athlete. There’s a reason that neither Brick or Mangold really has any guaranteed money in their contracts.
Completely
The right thing to do would be to present him with that "proposal" at the beginning of camp so that he can go and seek a job as the number 2 elsewhere. By waiting until the time that they did, they removed any realistic possibility that he could catch on with another team as the number 2. They basically stole 500k from him…
…It sheds light onto the way the Jets do business.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup, Clemens would have definitely
made that 1.1 million somwhere else (rolls eyes). Give me a break. So what if they didn’t want him to go somewhere else? You guys wana win superbowls but you wana be all cute and nice to everybody also.
You guys wana win superbowls but you wana be all cute and nice to everybody also.
Then don’t complain if player’s agents aren’t “cute and cuddly”.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Who's complaining?
You have used that as a response to me 10 times already. Why do you assume I am complaining? I couldn’t care less if Revis holds out, I know we can win without him. I just don’t want to pay him. I’m not complaining about his agents. Fuck them, fuck his whore grandmother too.
You have used that as a response to me 10 times already. Why do you assume I am complaining?
Because all I hear is whining and profanity.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
And all I hear is
that the owner is a billionaire so Revis should just be able to loot his house.
Yeah. Revis is the gansta home-boy looting the house of the rich white owner. Nice.
Great point.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the reason they cut Clemens salary was because they did not want him to be paid more then Brunell.
So they pick up a guy in the off-season (who let’s face it, if he starts the team is going down) and they in principle want this guy paid more than a guy who has given many years to the team?
It’s, “Hey Clemens, we know that that at one time you were the future of the team, but we got this new very old guy and we just don’t want him to be paid less than you. Time to take a pay cut, and no, we are not going to give you a chance to make it on another club because even though we think you really really suck, we still need you.”
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
1) it might be his right to hold out, that doesn’t mean it’s morally or ethically correct.
2) Perhaps, but you could come out with a lower total number with higher guaranteed number to get around that. Isn’t that what you said yourself?
1) it might be his right to hold out, that doesn’t mean it’s morally or ethically correct.
I consider it ethically justified to refuse to work when you feel that you are working under unfair conditions. Ethically, if you feel that you are not being properly valued in a situation you should consider changing or leaving that situation. There are consequences to consider, and other obligations such as to the fans that buy your stuff and cheer you, but there are also the same for the employer, and their slice of the pie.
2) Perhaps, but you could come out with a lower total number with higher guaranteed number to get around that. Isn’t that what you said yourself?
Completely. You don’t know what the agent says as a negotiation, and what he says as an ultimatum. There were early reports coming from Revis himself (not his agents) that the first offer contained no guaranteed money.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
does a 4mil/yr difference or ‘not highest paid player’ sound like unfair working conditions? Do you see how selfish this makes him look?
And that first offer contained no guaranteed money because they allegedly didn’t get that far in negotiations (fixated on highest paid). Does it sound even more illogical for a team to not offer guaranteed money to a player of his caliber? Not even Steinbrenner would do such a thing.
does a 4mil/yr difference or ‘not highest paid player’ sound like unfair working conditions? Do you see how selfish this makes him look?
He only looks selfish if you don’t look at the billionaire at the other end of it.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm not looking at the billionaires
because most employees don’t make what the CEOs make. I’m looking at the market, and right now, 16M is ELITE QB money…Peyton Manning money.
This is exactly the kind of thinking that gives bailouts of millions and millions to banks so they can pay their CEO’s one parachute bonus after another.
CEO’s are greedy, they just get paid like that. Workers though are greedy.
The points is, if you are going to make ethical judgments about greedy, casts your eyes in all directions, in particular, upwards.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
see, casting a broad generalization of your philosophical and political views obstruct the point that he agreed to be paid x amount of money, in fact, you went on strike for it. Now you go on strike for more?
I’m all about getting paid, but he’s going back on his signature on the dotted line.
If you’re saying that all of the players should be paid more, maybe…but that’s not the way to do it. Again, when Peyton and Brady and the other QBs get their 25M, I’ll agree that Revis should get his 16M.
I’m all about getting paid, but he’s going back on his signature on the dotted line.
That contract was signed in the immediate context of the player’s right to strike. It was up to the team to build a relationship of trust that kept that from happening, and this is something that they failed to do.
If you signed a contract and worked in a place where the boss disrespected you in a variety of ways, you would consider quitting. This is no different. We do not know what was said, promised, “verbaled” to Revis, but the relationship of trust that was supposed to be built was not built.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
again, you’re basing this on claims that they lied about guaranteed money…something that is hard if not impossible to prove based on ‘he said she said’…something that’s also illogical because it doesn’t make sense to piss off your star player.
And with that, I’m out. Gotta study so I can make my waay inferior amount of money compared to Revis.
because it doesn’t make sense to piss off your star player.
Just as it doesn’t make sense to embarrass Clemens for a messily 500,000, and look so bad before the team.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
it doesn’t make sense for them to do that. Which leads me to think there are other reasons.
dammit, stop making me come back.
I get it.
1. The Jets simply COULD NOT have low-balled Revis because it doesn’t make sense to piss him off.
2. The Jets MUST HAVE had some mysterious reason for humiliating Clemens, because it does not make sense.
How about: The Jets make bad decisions sometimes?
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
And that first offer contained no guaranteed money because they allegedly didn’t get that far in negotiations….
Completely from Woody’s mouth. Revis specifically told a reporter for ESPN that he was insulted and shocked by the lack of guaranteed money in the initial deal.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, their star is PISSED, so they were not that brilliant. Or he is lying.
I suspect that he is really pissed.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
or it could be both...he's pissed because he's not highest paid and he's lying cuz he's pissed.
see? it can go both ways.
Sure. But given how the Jets negotiate I completely believe the report I heard a month ago that early in the summer Revis told an ESPN reporter that the first offer contained ZERO guaranteed money. Not much was made of this report, but given how things have unfolded, and what “slaps in the face” mean, I find it perfectly believable that the Jets started this negotiation from a HARDBALL position.
When this happened the agent did his regular thing and went totally the other way. That’s my read.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s why they are talking about “slaps in the face”. Not the per year.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
ie. you have the right to hold out on your contract twice…the contract you negotiated and held out for…but that’s just going to make you look like a money grubbing a-hole.
And billionaires aren’t money grubbing because they have so much money when they grab more of it they just look like they are rolling in what they are made of. right?
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
so you're saying
everyone in this world should go on strike when they feel slighly underpaid/not highest paid employee from their big corporation? I’m not a fan of big corporations myself, but that’s just not reality.
Why should you not strike if you feel aggrieved, cannot address your aggrievement within the company and can afford it?
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
strikes were first done because of things like unsafe working conditions or pay below the average cost of living…not because you’re offered 12M (way more than the cost of living) and you want to be the highest paid player (16M).
If he thinks he’s aggrieved…sure go ahead and strike, but the context and the situation isn’t going to look in his favor morally and ethically.
If he thinks he’s aggrieved…sure go ahead and strike, but the context and the situation isn’t going to look in his favor morally and ethically.
Only if you ignore the greed of billionaires. But they have so much money how can we consider them greedy?
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's put it this way.
Woody says, “I want to win a championship!” “Go buy my PSLs!”
I say, “How much are you worth?”
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
strikes were first done because of things like unsafe working conditions or pay below the average cost of living…
Sure. And strikers were attacked and killed, and arrested. But this not mean that a millionaire who strikes is ethically or morally inferior to a billionaire who is holding the line on his own profits. There is a pie. Refusing to work for the pie because you want more of it doesn’t make you a bad guy when one guy has the majority of the pie.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
ethics and morality don’t depend on whether you’re a millionaire or billionaire. Holding out in the middle of a contract you already held out for is a no no. Especially if its to be ‘highest paid’.
The contract is an exercise of power of those who have the leverage. The owner has the leverage, he is part of the league. Let us not pretend that this is contract between equals, like me hiring you to do some work for me. The NFL owner has powers of being a league member with near monopoly powers (there have been multiple anti-trust actions brought against the league). So the standing of “contracts” is not just some abstract knights of the round table “honor” question. The contract is the means of the owner to control the labor. In the CBA this is worked out, but this is not the extent of the player’s power to resist the near monopoly powers of the contract. One of the means is “striking” (called “holding out”). This is the counter-point of the powers the owners exercise through contracts. And all contracts are negotiated within this acknowledged context.
The player who holds out is not ethically inferior to the employer who seeks to appropriate as much value from his employee as possible. They simply says, “you are not treating me fairly, I quit”. It is up to the employer to convince the employee that the relationship is fair. The contract itself does not do this.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Also to consider
The default:
“Contracts cannot be questioned” as a matter of personal honor is something that corporate structures use to keep control labor. It is part of the worker’s identity and morality to not question whether the structures that control contract making are fair or not.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
This player is “aggrieved” because he wants 16 million dollars a freakin year instead of 12? Cry me a river.
Trade his punk ass to Cleveland and let’s move on.
by nationalist88 on Sep 3, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
How much money did Woody Johnson make last year?
Are you crying a river for Woody?
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 3, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s the boss, of course he’s got to make money to pay all these guys who don’t want to fulfill the contracts they signed.
PSL’s are a completely different story. I can’t believe anybody actually pays for those.
by nationalist88 on Sep 3, 2010 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
So Woody only makes money enough to pay all his employees?
Poor guy.
He is worth 3 Billion dollars.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not cryin for either
because neither of them hold as important of a job as a doctor or a nurse or a teacher…people that should be paid more.
Sure. But you are only upset about ONE of them.
One is greedy, the other just is rich.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
you can't be angry at a guy just cuz he's rich.
I mean…you can…but that’s just called hating. he’s not the guy that went back on his contract.
Its not that he’s rich, its that he is just as “greedy” as Revis. In fact, actually more so, because he needs the money even LESS. If you are going to be pissed at Revis because he is so damn greedy, why not be pissed at an owner who says he wants a championship, but won’t put his money where his mouth is. How much does Woody need the money?
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
c’mon man…don’t tell me Revis NEEDS that extra 4mil/yr to win a championship. If they never indicated an interest in renewing his contract, this wouldn’t even be an issue.
And you think that Woody needs the extra 4 mill either?
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
From wiki, Woody the good guy:
In August of 2006, Johnson was asked to testify before a Senate panel about his participation in a sham tax shelter. A Senate report said that Johnson, along with a few others, were able to buy, for relatively small fees, roughly $2 billion in capital losses that they used to erase taxable gains they garnered from stock sales. The U.S. Treasury lost an estimated $300 million in revenue as a result. In a statement, Johnson said he had been advised by his lawyers in 2000 that the transaction “was consistent with the Tax Code.” But after the Internal Revenue Service challenged that view in 2003, Johnson this year “settled with the IRS and agreed to pay 100 percent of the tax due plus interest.”
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Who gives a shit?
He is a good businessman. All the more reason I trust him and Mike T.
A good businessman who defrauded the US gov?
Well, I guess that is one way of looking at it. But it also seems likely that as a “good businessman” he would defraud his players as well.
Revis’s claims make all the more sense.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
The US Gov’t is probably the biggest criminal organization on the planet. If anyone gets the opportunity to steal something back from them, God bless ’em. As if that has anything to do with Mevis holding our football team at gunpoint anyway…
by nationalist88 on Sep 5, 2010 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I think I'll just let your statement speak for itself.
The US Gov’t is probably the biggest criminal organization on the planet. If anyone gets the opportunity to steal something back from them, God bless ’em. As if that has anything to do with Mevis holding our football team at gunpoint anyway…
Always good not to have to rebut something.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 5, 2010 2:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Lol. He is NOT a good businessman.
He’s a trustfund baby.
We don’t even know what kind of salary structure will be implemented when a new CBA is reached, you can’t just throw money around like it’s a Monopoly game! And look at all the players that were already affected by the amout of money Mevis is demanding. We cut a Pro Bowl LG to put in a rookie, got a discount backfield to carry the ball, no 4th WR and a kicker who can’t make extra points.
You wanna chip in a few bucks of your money to cover Schwartz and Feinsod’s (who are, by the way, multi-millionaires) expenses? We’d appreciate it.
by nationalist88 on Sep 4, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure.
Its uncapped year. Give Revis money up front, guarantee a nice chunk and I’m sure all this will go away.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
You can’t pay this dirtbag up front – he’ll hold out AGAIN!! Aren’t you noticing a pattern here?
by nationalist88 on Sep 4, 2010 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I know dirt-bag. Millionaires are dirt-bags, billionaire’s angels.
Then no matter what you pay him he’ll hold out. Trade him if you don’t want the dirt bag. why wait?
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I would have been shopping Mevis weeks ago. He’s not worth near the money he’s asking, and some downtrodden franchise would overpay to bring in a high profile player coming off a great season.
by nationalist88 on Sep 4, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Great idea. Always good to get rid of dirt-bag corners when your coach organizes his entire defense around the play of corners, and that corner is the best corner in the league.
Great plan.
Wait till Cro whiffs on a few tackles, racks up a few PIs, and is toasted deep.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
now you sound like crackback
are you sure you’re not crackback?
I don’t mind Cro as second fiddle, but you are going to be great disappointed as first fiddle. He is mentally inconsistent. He’ll do great on the weak side on the second receiver.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Corners don’t win Superbowls. We’ve established this already. Get one good pass rusher and you won’t ever miss Mevis.
by nationalist88 on Sep 4, 2010 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Corners don’t win Superbowls. We’ve established this already.
Who established that already?
There has never been such a corner-oriented defense as the one that the Jets are now running, in the history of the NFL. Nobody knows if it can win a Superbowl, but one thing can’t be questioned, CORNERS are the prime position in it.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
i think
he’s trying to say that Rex is playing to his strengths…so if there was a good pass rusher, Rex wouldn’t need to focus on the corner position as much.
Not at all
Rex has long been famous for his love of corners in his defense, and only when he got to the Jets was he able to implement his preference which is to make corners the centerpiece.
There logic to this which reads into the Revis holdout. So many defenses prize hulking/fast pass rushers they are OVERPRICED because of the demand. Making corners the core of your defense and not needing a high-priced LB or DL to make your defense go is a cost strategy. Corners are undervalued by the market, just as on-base guys were in baseball a while back.
Revis upset this advantage a bit be being SO damn good, becoming in a sense TOO good, and somewhat irreplaceable (like a high priced pass-rusher).
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
um...
so wouldn’t paying him as if corners weren’t undervalued defeat the purpose?
so wouldn’t paying him as if corners weren’t undervalued defeat the purpose?
Completely. And that explains why there is resistance. And that explains why Wilson was drafted, and why Cro was traded for. The ideal is to have undervalued top-talent in a defense designed to take advantage of it.
But the Jets got TOO lucky. It was as if in the old billy-ball days you tried to get on-base-percentage guys because they are deeply undervalued compared to boppers, and effect the game in hidden ways, but in doing so stumbled upon the highest on-base guy in the league and guy who just transformed your team. Your plan is in a fix, or worked too well.
Revis identifies what they are doing and he recognizes that corners in Ryan’s system simply are worth more than in any other system. His talents are the equal to dominant pass rusher in another system. And he is arm-twisting because he sees it.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Rex is a first year coach and still learning. If his corner-first approach works, it will be the first time in history. Why re-invent the wheel? You can literally beat the most prolific pass attack the game has ever seen with a WEAK secondary, if you can hit the QB with a four man rush. Ask the 2007 New York Giants.
by nationalist88 on Sep 4, 2010 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
If his corner-first approach works, it will be the first time in history. Why re-invent the wheel? You can literally beat the most prolific pass attack the game has ever seen with a WEAK secondary, if you can hit the QB with a four man rush. Ask the 2007 New York Giants.
Let me get this straight. Ryan has spent his whole adult life designing a defense that takes advantage of undervalued talent and is a defense that he had really good success with in his first year, but you are saying: why come up with something the league doesn’t know when you can be like the some other team?
Are you honestly saying that?
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Ryan’s defense got abused by Manning and Brady. I’m saying you don’t beat QB’s like that by chasing their WR’s around all game. You beat them by knocking them on their ass where it’s impossible to complete a throw. That’s the formula. Great QB’s beat great corners in crunch time. Always have, always will…
by nationalist88 on Sep 4, 2010 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Ryan’s defense got abused by Manning and Brady. I’m saying you don’t beat QB’s like that by chasing their WR’s around all game.
That was with a horrible second corner. With two dominant corners and a decent slot defender it might very well be a different story. But Revis will have to sign for us to find it.
It was the FIRST year of the defense dude.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Let me respond to this too
Ryan’s defense got abused by Manning and Brady. I’m saying you don’t beat QB’s like that by chasing their WR’s around all game. You beat them by knocking them on their ass where it’s impossible to complete a throw.
I wrote about this when the Jets drafted Wilson while everyone was crying for an end. HERE
Indeed pressuring the QB is central to Ryan’s scheme, but it comes from a different source. His plan is much closer to post-modern warfare schemes which are based on the promulgation of confusion and complexity (instead of pure firepower). The reason why corners are prized is that if you enough good ones you can shrink the windows between QB and his decision making to such a degree that the result is confusion. The confusion comes out of the ability of the corner to shut down the receiver over a very short space, upon this confusion the defense trades as it is able to bring pressure from unexpected places, and indeed put the QB on his ass.
The problem is, if your corners are not skilled enough to shrink those windows, and the QB is elite in decision making, the whole thing collapses. The defense can be picked apart, and this is exactly what elite QBs did. Just stay away from Revis.
The purpose of the defense though is to turn the ball over and to be a scoring defense. This is the last step. First the corners and slot guy close the windows of the first 3 seconds, second pressure comes from unexpected places (complexity), and lastly a pressured QB makes an inaccurate throw, resulting in a pick and possibly a score. That is one reason why Cro is so valued, he has the athleticism and hands to pick off the inaccurate throw to the weak side, and score, he’s a ball hawk, but FIRST you need Revis shutting down the primary target.
You are exactly right that there are ways to beat a QB with pressure from a DL or LB force, and get away with weak corners, but this is not the Jet plan. The plan is the other way around. Its to close off the first few seconds of easy throws and begin to suffocate the QB mentally. Then to pressure blitz, then to pick and score.
As one can see from last year, its a high risk defense. If you fail at the first part, or if late in the game there are outlet plans, the whole thing can fall apart. But its the kind of chaotic scheme that if properly executed by first class pass defenders, it has the potential to be utterly dominant, in fact crushingly so if the defense starts to score as it is supposed to (and didn’t last year).
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh boy. Ok, stay with me here. What do Nnamdi Asomugha, Champ Bailey, Darrelle Revis, Charles Woodson, Cortland Finnegan, Asante Samuel and Dunta Robinson have in common? Best corners in football? Yes, but there’s one more thing, none of them have taken their respective teams to a Superbowl. And please don’t argue that Samuel has a ring, because he wasn’t even starting when New England won it, nor would his name even be mentioned with the performers on that team. Corners are a waste of money, kv.
by nationalist88 on Sep 4, 2010 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Did you not read my post?
Yes, but there’s one more thing, none of them have taken their respective teams to a Superbowl.
None of those corners are in Ryan’s corner-first and foremost defense. None of them.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL, so Rex Ryan is a smarter coach than Jeff Fisher, Mike Shanahan, and Bill Belichick?
by nationalist88 on Sep 4, 2010 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL, so Rex Ryan is a smarter coach than Jeff Fisher, Mike Shanahan, and Bill Belichick?
So your coaching playbook is “find out what Belichick is doing and copy him”. Great plan.
I have no idea how good a coach Ryan is, but he was hired to implement his defense, not the Jeff Fisher defense. And his defense is designed to take advantage of an undervalued position corners. The NFL has never seen this defense before, just as they had never seen Ryan’s father’s 46.
I know one thing though, you don’t become a great coach without some aspect of innovation, and Ryan is making his try.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Further
A distinct advantage of Ryan’s defensive scheme is that it is able to become dominant (or possibly dominant) without pursuing the same players the rest of the league are pursuing.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Rex ryan only implements the corner first defense because that's what we have.
If we didn’t have Revis he would just design something different that would work just as well. Like he did in Baltimore for years with no great cornerbacks. I saw him coach a top 5 defense without Ray Lewis and Ed Reed. Darrelle Revis isn’t even qualified to hold one of their dicks for them while they pee.
Rex ryan only implements the corner first defense because that’s what we have.
You are not familiar with Ryan’s past with the Ravens. He was famous for begging for corners left and right, and he was not awarded them.
And funny how when the off season came they not only traded for a top corner (why? Who knows?) AND drafted a corner when everyone else was begging/predicting a pass rusher.
Nope. Ryan doesn’t care much for corners. Have a clue.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Revis a product of Rex's defense.
Not the other way around. How anybody can debate this is laughable to me.
Revis a product of Rex’s defense.
Sure, but that defense NEEDS a Revis to be at the elite level. Just wait until you have Cro making PIs all over the place.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Just wait till we don't.
And Cro picks 10 passes off.
I can speculate baselessly also.
You usually do. Why stop now?
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
so you’re saying all the GMs and CEOs that aren’t willing to meet any player’s demands are greedy…even when there is a thing called a salary cap.
I remain completely unconvinced that this is solely a salary cap issue. This is a money issue in my view, given that this is an uncapped year. In particular this is a guaranteed money issue.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
yknow
the CBA is coming up…and the pundits ARE saying that the cap could lower…AND that they could set retro-active penalties for this uncapped year.
Again. You will have to explain to me the limits put on the Jets on the amount of money they can pay Revis in an uncapped year, and the amount of guaranteed money they can give. One cannot simply assume that there is no way to frontload this.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Bro, you’re not paying attention to what’s unfolding here. Mevis held ouit as a rookie for more money. Before he even played for us. Now, he’s holding out again with 3 years left on his contract. If you paid him up front money, what stops him from….. wait…. here it comes…… um, holding out AGAIN?
by nationalist88 on Sep 4, 2010 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure.
But how much guaranteed money did he get in his first contract????
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Don’t know the answer to that but I know he got most of the money already. Which is why he all of a sudden doesn’t like his contract anymore.
by nationalist88 on Sep 4, 2010 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
He doesn't like his contract
Because the average NFL player career is 2 to 4 years – he saw what happened to Washington first hand. He doesn’t like his contract because he understands the value he has to THIS team, under THIS system, and is trading his value for security while he still can.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Well then he shouldn't have held out for a 6 year deal
if he took a standard 4 year deal he would be one year from free agency, probably gotten paid already.
Wait, what happened to Leon again?
Oh yeah, he turned down above market value dollars and then snapped his leg. Fuck him.
Oh yeah, he turned down above market value dollars and then snapped his leg. Fuck him.
Nice. And you replaced him, ostensibly, with a scat back that can’t keep from fumbling the ball or throwing up. Great move.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes,
because preseason games for 4th round picks are the end all be all of how their careers will turn out. Leon rushed for 2.9 yard per carry in his rookie preseason.
Leon rushed for 2.9 yard per carry in his rookie
Yeah. So every running back who sucks as a rookie is a Leon Washington in the making. Great point.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Makes sense then why teams are so reluctant to hand out big contracts right now. Only one I know of is San Francisco paying Willis.
by nationalist88 on Sep 4, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure. But an equal possibility is that of collusion. The NFL owners are the ones who called for a new CBA, they are going to cry poverty.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
up front guaranteed money...like 60 mil?
I don’t think that’s going to fly…
I’m sure that there is number that would convince him. I’m pretty sure Woody wants no part of it either.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I know. Billionaires a good guys.
Millionaire, they are the bad guys.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Dude this isn’t Robin Hood. Just because Woody’s worth a fortune doesn’t mean he owes it to anybody.
by nationalist88 on Sep 4, 2010 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure. He can keep all the money he wants, but Revis doesn’t have to work for him either. To call Revis greedy because he wants money that the billionaire want to keep for himself, well, that does not make sense.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
well
he wouldn’t look so greedy if he didn’t agree to get paid x million dollars and now wants to go back on that agreement.
That and we all forget in this mess that football is a capped sport. Yes this is an uncapped year, but that doesn’t mean the payroll this year isn’t affected by the new CBA.
That and we all forget in this mess that football is a capped sport. Yes this is an uncapped year, but that doesn’t mean the payroll this year isn’t affected by the new CBA.
If you would like to explain to me the limit to which Woody can give Revis a sizable sum this year, uncapped at it is, and the limit to guaranteed money, I’m all ears. From what I can tell Woody doesn’t want to talk about guaranteed money in the least.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
We don’t know any of this for sure because the negotiations are not public. Of course the deal must include guaranteed money, but I can’t say the Jets aren’t offering it and unless you’re related to any of them, you can’t either.
by nationalist88 on Sep 4, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure. I can only make
conclusions from a few pieces of evidence.
1. Woody refuses to admit that guaranteed money is a sticking point, a rather unlikely scenario given that guaranteed money is what all players are after.
2. Revis claimed early in the summer that the original Jet offer had zero guaranteed money.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
No way would the Jets offer zero guaranteed. On any notable player’s contract. That’s bullshit.
They just re-signed Brick and Mangold, who both got guaranteed money. Why in the world would they give it to them and not Mevis?
by nationalist88 on Sep 4, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Why in the world would they give it to them and not Mevis?
Because Revis has multiple years remaining on his contract, and Woody takes this to be leverage.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions
so is holding out
(So you can loot the rich owner’s house, right?)
That is, unless the team replaces you with CFL talent.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Some of this argument would fall right on it's face...
I personally believe that athletes are entitled to their share of the earnings that their "TEAM’ generates but not at the expense of the teams ability to function within the league’s set parameters. My personal view is that based on what is out there for public consumption Revis could not win if this were a case taken to court. The point that I think is falsly interpretted is that Woody saying it should be written is truly ducking out of paying Revis…I’m sorry but in my experience going into any conflict with “he said, she said” is easily dismissed if you go in against anybody with any kind of intelligence. In many aspects of life you have to write it down. If Mike T said specifically “I am going to make you the highest paid CB in the NFL” then I think they should honor it but I have never seen that as the quote…simply “we are going to take care of you”. I am currently in the military and when we take leave we submit for it…the leave is submitted and someone usually your supervisor or his/her supervisor signs off on it. If they deny it they are supposed to put it in writing or when the end of the fiscal year comes the Commander gets a severe a$$ chewing for people not taking the time unless it is justified. What I am getting at is that it doesn’t matter what walk of life it is Woody is absolutely correct that you need to get it in writing. If Revis stepped in court and said they verbally said they were going to take care of me…that is so open ended that anything that the Jets FO proposed can be interpreted as them taking care of him if it is an improvement on what he already has. I’m sure a judge would tell him “get back to work….they made you an offer that was an improvement on your current deal both in years and amount of compensations”. As for the argument of this being like going on strike…usually when people go on strike it’s a whole group and they basically stop a companies ability to function. Revis does not stop the Jets ability to function. They may not function as well but they still function so realistically he has no leverage in my opinion. As for Revis’ agents…looking at their clients, Vincent Jackson, Roddy White, Chris Baker to name a few…these guys are a huge part of the problem. Everybody lies to their client’s as opposed to other agent’s clients all the time. If I were the Jets I would actually avoid players that have these guys for agents. It is detrimental to the team to deal with players that have these guys in their ear. I know that it would be hard to avoid high caliber players that choose these guys but there are a lot of good players out there and these guys don’t represent them all!
Actually, no thats right at all.
The reason you don’t “hold out” because your superior lied to you about giving you leave is because you will be court martialled if you do. If all that was required from you was a 0.10 fine for each day you failed to report, then you just might take the fine if you had a point to prove (e.g. your superior had a history of pulling this crap).
Also the court would not order Revis back to work. He is not in breach of contract so long as he pays the requisite fines. Further, the Jets suffer no damages in the situation. They not only are not compensating him, HE is actually paying them while he is out. Further, they are free to hire a replacement. You cannot bring a cause of action without a claim, the Jets have no standing to bring a cause of action in a court of law. Even further, Revis is not attempting to be compensated under his current contract; he is simply withholding his services.
Sorry but you completely failed to understand the context of what I wrote!
The aspect of leave has nothing to do with the court martial thing. Leave is looked at by high level military and government (congress). The point of that part of my reply was that in any aspect of life there is documenting what is said. If my supervisor denies me leave he has to put it in writing. What that does is makes sure that everyone can stand by what they said and didn’t say. If they told Revis that they would make him the highest paid CB then he needed to have them somehow document it or it’s what it is now…"he said, she said (or in this case he said). BTW just so you know when we join the military and even reenlist we sign a contract…pretty interesting stuff.
Now as far as the other portion of your response, this isn’t as though this is really going to end up in court…my point there was that if this were hypothetically a case that appeared in a courtroom the argument on Revis’ side would more than likely be the losing argument were a judge to be obligated to choose a side. The wording of “take care of” is vague enough that the Revis camp would have no argument once it has been revealed what the Jets put on the table. A $120 million contract actually according to one site I read fits the criteria of making him the highest paid CB in the league…just not annually. Sure they would have to hammer out the guaranteed money and that sort of thing but it basically meets the “taking care of” criteria. I would assume that once the Jets made him an offer that was better than the contract that he already has and he turned it down that he should finish out the contract that he has remaining and seek new employment. Let’s not go back through the same rehashed arguments though…I hope I clarified at least a little what I was getting at.
by Mac N Cheese on Sep 4, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I understand completely what you were saying. You’re just wrong on every level. Revis isn’t trying to enforce the promise. He’s relaliating against their failure to keep their word by holding out. Maybe i should have spelled out further so that you could understand it better. It would be like you getting a verbal commitment from your supervisor that you may get leave, then when you apply you get denied. Your supervisor seems to pull that shit with everybody. Since you’re the best soldier in your unit, and you’re about to go into battle, and the penalty is only a 0.10 per day fine, you decide to stand up for yourself and your teammates and “hold out.”
Again, with the “other portion” you’re wrong again. If the case went to court, the ssumption would be that the Jets are bringing the cause of action in order to force Revis to play. That, in itself, is unconstiutional. You cannot force involuntary servitude. The Jets could hire a new corner, and if the new corner costs more than Revis, then conceivably the Jets can seek damages from Revis for the difference. But they would have to realease him from their control in order to do so. Also, they have a duty to mitigate the damages, and must make every attempt to hire someone of equal or lesser value as his replacement.
Ha ha...I like this game...
I really don’t think you understood…you still went a different direction. The first part is don’t just take their word…make them write it down. And understand that your military analysis is off. My point in using the military example is even that has to be in writing. He can deny it but in writing there is no backing out or changing of stories. Trust pen and paper. When we don’t get leave or someone changes their word we still honor our contracts.
Again you missunderstand what I said on the second part…it wasn’t necessarilly the Jets taking Revis to court…it is Revis who feels that he is somehow being wronged in this situation so it is Revis that would be attempting to hold the Jets so some unkept promise. Which is what he is trying to do by holding out. At what point can Revis say the Jets have not attempted to reasonably uphold the promise to “take care of” him?
It’s hard for you to say I’m wrong if you never quite got my context…even if you continue to say I’m wrong your responses do not say you understood what I meant. I apologize if I am not 100% clear.
by Mac N Cheese on Sep 4, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Your supervisor seems to pull that shit with everybody.
Hehe, I don’t hear any other Jets complaining about management. Mangold and Brick seem pretty happy. In fact, the only people who would support your (usual) baseless claims is the agents of Chris Baker and Pete Kendall, who just happen to be the same guys who represent Revis. Riiiiiiight……
Yeah. Clemens is perfectly happy with his pay cut. Sure.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 4, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally I think all that talk about the Jets told him they'd take care of him was just a PR excuse
Had they not brought up the talk Revis still would have demanded to be the highest paid CB. The NFL is a business, there is no room for stuff like honor and loyalty. The only thing that matters is what the player can offer the team and vice versa. In this case Revis had an unbelievable season which established him as the best at his position. His coach said he was the best CB since Deion. Also the Jets were hyping themselves up as a Superbowl contender and making all this moves to improve their roster for this season. Those two events give tremendous leverage to Revis to demand what he wants. His agents definitely understands that. That talk about taking care of Revis and breaching of trust (bullshit) is just an PR excuse.
by secret defense on Sep 4, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree...thank you!
Thank you for posting a sane discussion on this.
I think Revis knows he has made a huge error.
That is why these silly threats of “He will never play for the Jets again”
statements are coming out…
oh really?….
are you and your agents going to start your own league too?
I would rather he sit out then have us screw up our pay scale.
I read him saying that he felt the Jets were “toying with him”
Please grow up
and remember this
the guy who actually WAS the named the best D player in the league last year
I think he is injured and out….
time in the sun is fleeting.
DR did it for ONE YEAR…we are not talking about a guy who was GREAT for 3 or 4 years
also I think there are other great CB’s in the league
They just don’t have a big mouth coach proclaiming they are all the greatest players who ever lived.
This is really all Rex’s fault.
but that said…DR was not the first…he will not be the last.
Trade him
by KZL on Sep 4, 2010 9:23 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
+1
though I wouldn’t trade him. Let him rot.
since as your baffled, let me clear it up
not to say he doesn’t work hard because he does….but so do alot of people. In fact there are tons of people who work hard have have skill and don’t make the cut for the NFL. Half of the WWE is littered with former players who didn’t make the cut. Like I said Warner was around for years before he was given a chance. Warren Moon had his most productive years in the CFL before eventually becoming a football Hall of Famer.
All I’m saying is talent gets overlooked often. Washington and Woodhead both good players who can make plays but 9 outta 10 times one of em will get cut because another team will not want to carry that many backs. Lots of talent slips through the cracks and not everyone is lucky enough to get a reprieve let alone hold out and demand millions more than their team is willing to pay while they are still under contract.
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Sep 5, 2010 2:03 AM EDT reply actions
So whats you're point?
That he’s lucky that he’s so talented and that he should bend over for the owner and work for less than his skill warrants so that the owner can pull a Clemens on a few more players?
What is this gift bullshit? To hell with Wshington and Woodhead. There’s a thousand Washingtons and Woodheads. You can replace either of them with a UFDA. How many others can do what Revis does? Maybe one (Nnamdi).
What are we anti-capitalism now? I thought the whole point of working harder, smarter, faster and better was so that you can make more. Not so that you can make more for some other player or to line someone else’s pockets.
What, so because Revis is so talented he should forgo what he’s rightfully worth for the financial gain of someone else’s family?
People try to say that Revis is out of touch because he talks about taking care of his family while there are families out there starving and in need of shelter and other unrelated BS. But would those families somehow benefited by Revis deciding to play less than he’s worth? Hell no. It would be some other millionaire player or the billionaire owner. Why should he forgo what he’s rightfully earned for some other overpaid millionaire? Why should they bear the fruits of his labor rather than his own family?
And lets stop with the fans are entitled to championship nonesense. That is not his responsibility. Its the teams responsibility to field a winner. His job is to play to the best of his ability and to be compensated fairly for his production. His responsibility is to the financial welfare of himself and his family. And he would be ill-advised to forgo tens of millions so that someone else’s family could harvest the crop that he’s busted his ass for years to cultivate.
People try to say that Revis is out of touch because he talks about taking care of his family while there are families out there starving and in need of shelter and other unrelated BS. But would those families somehow benefited by Revis deciding to play less than he’s worth? Hell no. It would be some other millionaire player or the billionaire owner. Why should he forgo what he’s rightfully earned for some other overpaid millionaire?
Completely agree. 100%.
And lets stop with the fans are entitled to championship nonsense. That is not his responsibility. Its the teams responsibility to field a winner.
I don’t entirely agree with this. While it is not a strong responsibility, part of Revis’s leverage comes from the way that fans have embraced his play, and raised him as a public figure. While he does not owe them a championship, it isn’t that he owes them nothing. In the end it is they who indirectly pay his salary. There is a reciprocal relationship between the fans and thus his fame or public standing, and thus his earning power.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Sep 5, 2010 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t disagree with what your saying, but I was speaking to the fact that people are asking him to forgo money he’s felt he’s earned so that other players can get paid. That isn’t Revis’ responsibility. Revis’ responsibility is to be the best player he can and to be fairly compensated for his productivity.
Revis you big steaming piece of cow DUNG…………….
I am a life long Jet fan and you can make a difference if we win or lose a chance at the
superbowl. Of course you should be paid but don’t be stupid. Who ever is advising you
is a greedy asshole. You have a contract in place and should honor it. You are in breech of contract you agreed on. What would you do if you went to work one day and the Jets said we are going to have to cut your salary……… You would call your blood sucking lawyer and sue them. Thats what they should do to you. You are hurting their product and their chance to earn more money from a business stand point.
You owe it to the Jets, your fellow players and the fans.
The Jets have NO obligation to give you more money but they offered it to be fair.
You have other options like playing out your contract and then get the fuck out.
This is all on you not the Jets. With people losing their jobs, homes and struggle to put
food on the table you should be ashaimed of yourself. You hit the lottery with your talent and hard work. Grow up and realize it jerk-off.

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