When Is It All Right to Overpay a Player?
by John B on Aug 31, 2010 6:00 AM EDT
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PrintIn the middle of this decade, the Yankees would not stop overpaying mediocre players. It frustrated me as a fan to no end. Year after year guys from Chris Hammond to Jaret Wright to Carl Pavano to Kyle Farnsworth to Kei Igawa got deals worth way more than they were. At some point, I started thinking about whether it was ever all right to overpay for a player.
I came up with two scenarios where I thought it made sense.
Scenario 1:
A player is...
A. Either the best or close to his best at his position
B. The majority of the contract will take place at an age where the player will either be in his prime or play close to it.
Scenario 2:
A player could be the final piece of a championship puzzle.
This doesn't just apply to monetary figures. Take the way the Vikings make all kinds of special rules for Brett Favre. I might mock it, but it's what they have to do. The odds of them winning a Super Bowl with Tavaris Jackson or Sage Rosenfels at quarterback is far less than it would be with Favre under center.
See how this applies to the Jets after the jump.
The Jets have a player meeting both criteria in Darrelle Revis. Revis is the best corner in the league. I'll go beyond that. He is the best defensive player in the league at this moment. He also might be the last piece of the puzzle. The Jets have Super Bowl talent up and down the roster. Antonio Cromartie and Kyle Wilson have great potential as starters. Add in the best corner in the league to knock them down a spot on the depth chart, and the defense could be something special.
The question is whether the Jets should top Nnamdi Asomugha's contract with the Raiders. I have explained why Revis is ridiculously valuable to this defense in previous posts. I won't go over old ground. Revis is that good. The question is whether Asomugha's contract really cripples the Raiders. Some say it does. I beg to differ.
Is Asomugha's contract probably too much money? I think it is. It's not the reason the Raiders are consistently terrible, though. What if they hadn't selected JaMarcus Russell? What if they took Aaron Rodgers instead two years earlier when they had a chance? What if they grabbed Calvin Johnson in 2007 instead of taking Darrius Hayward-Bey? What if they were better at developing talent like Michael Huff and Darren McFadden? What if they didn't take extremely raw talent like the first two guys and expect an unstable and subpar coaching staff to mold it? What if they didn't make terrible coaching hires like giving a college coordinator an NFL head coaching job? What if they didn't blow big money on free agents like Gibril Wilson, Tommy Kelly, and DeAngelo Hall? I could go on. It seems odd to blame the one guy pulling his weight for the most dysfunctional organization in football's malaise?
People make the terrible comparison of the way the Jets spend with the way the Redskins spend. It's dumb because the Redskins blow money on overrated guys like Brandon Lloyd and Antaawn-Randle-El, guys who only play hard when they feel like it such as Albert Haynesworth, or terrible fits for their system like Adam Archuletta. The Jets spend money on high caliber players with good years ahead of them like Bart Scott. Even though they gave big money to an aging player in Alan Faneca a few years ago, guards usually play at a high level for a long time. As much as Faneca declined as a pass blocker, he was still a major force in the run game.
Locking up premium young talent is not a wasted investment. It is not the sign of an unsuccessful team. It is just the opposite. People might worry about how giving Darrelle Revis a few extra million each year will handicap the team. I say the bigger risk is losing the best defensive player in the league, a guy around whose talents a very successful defense is built.
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Its not a question of what Revis is worth to me anyway
If they give Revis 16.5 million I don’t think we will see any consequences the next day but def in the near furture. For example lets say David Harris has an all pro season and is considered to be the top MLB in the league. He says “I am important to this team Revis got more then the next corner back, I should get a lot more then any other MLB”. Or next year Kyle Wilson (because Revis is shutting down the other side) gets all the balls at him and all the pass break ups and all the stats. He says “well I have out played my rookie contract, Revis is a better player then me but if he is worth 16.5 mil then I should get atleast 12 mil” Or Sanchez takes this team far in the playoffs and says “I can’t have a freaking corner back making this much more money then me this is my team and I should be the highest paid player on the team”.
I don’t dispute that Revis is worth more to this team then you could probaly put a price on, but its not his time to cash in yet. The Jets were nice by trying to give him money instead of saying “play for the contract you held out for”. Another thing is where do you go from here? If he gets 16.5 million right now for a 3 year band aid deal, in 3 years (say he plays better then last year) he wants more money say 19 million a year then what?
I realize these examples are out there and dramatic but in some way this will effect the team.
.
If I thought this contract was just as simple as pay Revis and walk away I would be on board with this so fast its not even funny. Why haven’t they paid him?, there must be a reason. My guess would be as I stated above effects on the team but it could be a lot of things. Maybe they don’t trust giving Revis all this up front money because he won’t be hungry anymore. 2 hold outs in 3 years would you blame them if that was a fear of the Jets?
.
I think we don’t have enough information to clearly say who is in the right/wrong but I wish Revis was on the field right now and it sucks he is not here. But if giving Revis what he wants hurts the team then I don’t want a deal done unless it works for BOTH sides.
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
Yeah well there is a guy in Oakland who gave Namdi Asoughma crazy money who started this in the first place. The same guy who gave a kicker 4million a year and a punter 3 million a year. I agree that this will just keep getting out of control and the Revis deal (if he gets what he is asking for) will be another stepping stone.
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
The answer to those guys would be:
Tough shit. You’re not Revis.
Thats hard part about business but its necessary. A tough but indisputable fact is that ALL of thos guys are much easier to replace than Revis is.
Thats my point then you have key players pissed and not ready to run through walls for Rex anymore.
Whats that saying about corner backs -(not word for word) the best he can do is take away half the field..not sure
Yeah they are replaceable for the most part but is that a can of worms you think it would be wise for the Jets to open?
Not all teams value cover corners (imo) the same as the Jets and would give up the farm for like a LT (Jake Long) QB (Aaron Rodgers) DE/OLB (Demarcus Ware) three players that are in similar situations as Revis at their positions . I don’t think you would find 3 teams that would be willing to meet the Revis demands (including giving up all they would have to in a trade)
The Jets need Revis but Revis is worth the most to the Jets. My point is they need to find some common ground like dvdvil brought up what T said besides one player he would make more money by far (champ bailey doesn’t count) then all other players.
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
Screw ’em if their pissed. Its business. Some players at certain positions make more than other players at other positions. These guys all know that. CBs make more than LBs as it is. Left tackles make more than centers. Running backs make more than full backs.
The idea that these guys would be upset in any way that Revis got paid for not only being a corner, but being a special corner is baseless.
If Harris puts up stats that blow Willis out of the water, then yeah, i have no problem with him requesting the team to pay him more than the highest paid ILB. Same for any other player at their respective position in the last year of their contract.
Not upset but they would want theirs also is what I am saying. I find it hard to believe that the Jets could give Revis all the money he wants then turn around to other players and ask then for a home team discount, this will never happen imo. I agree Revis is special but elite QB money? I just don’t think its going to happen which sucks for everyone but I can understand why its not happening.
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
wtf
are YOU talking about? He’s asking for more than Peyton Manning…THE ELITE QB in the league.
Manning’s contract was signed 7 years ago!!! Thats a world away from today. Lets see what his new deal looks like and then we’ll compare the two to see if Revis is even in the same ballpark. I’ve read speculation that Manning will around 25M per. If thats the case, Revis’ demands aren’t off base at all.
Well I guess I'd go 4 wide reciever set every down against the Jets
Revis can only cover one reciever and you can now not afford to pay another quality corner I’ll throw on you all day using my other 3 recievers. Pay him you’ll be one less franchise I need to worry abou in the Super Bowl long term. There will be reprecussions up and down your roster.
the jets are offering between 12/14 Mil and Revis wants 16 the difference is 2-4 mil. That is not the difference in an elite CB. That is the difference between a JT or LDT type player. Take a look at USATODAY.COM List of top ten NFL salaries and you’ll find all the top teams are represented. The colts had 3 players in the top 15 hayden, freeney and manning yet still managed to field a good team. We already have wilson, Signing revis doesn’t mean we can’t sign Cro. till take those 3 against any O in the league.
by george JETson on Aug 31, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Sooo JB
if YOU were in Tanny’s position this morning, would you call up Schwartz & Feinsod and cough up the dough?
you can only have 11 players on the field at a time...
…so a certain # of them have to be stars, even overpaid stars. two value guys can’t play the same spot at the same time.
Mike T on Hard Knocks
I don’t remember the exact words but basically he said:
1. Revis is under contract
2. He’ll be the best paid corner other than 1 player
and the home of the... JETS!!!
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Right, overpaying is overpaying, and doing so is a hallmark of losing organizations. When was the last time New England or Pittsburgh did something stupid like that? When players on these teams start shooting their mouths off about contracts and holdouts, they’re gone.
Please wrap your head around one significant detail: Mevis will not have another season like 2009. If that was in the realm of reality, his agents wouldn’t be demanding the windfall before he got on the field to prove it isn’t happening. Why no band-aid deal to show good faith by both sides? Because nobody rushes for 1,500 yds, throws 40 TD’s, or gets 17 sacks two years in a row.
And maybe you think Mevis is the best cover guy, defensive player, blah blah blah. IT DOESN’T MATTER. It’s almost like saying he’s the best fullback. Who cares?! Neither one is going to win you games by himself. Top value positions are QB, LT, and DE/OLB pass rusher. Mevis is none of these. And we’ve established that yap about “freeing up safeties” is nothing but bullshit; he gets help like every other corner. LOL, a 162 million dollar corner?! What a joke. You guys wanna spend Peyton Manning money? THEN GO GET PEYTON MANNING!
by nationalist88 on Aug 31, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Emmitt heldout and jerry coughed up. The giants made eli the highest paid Qb…he isn’t the best or in the top 5 so they overpaid and he delivered. Teams overpay and some times they win. The point is do you get the right talent for that $. Revis is talent+ work ethic +youth. If you are going to gamble on a big contract Revis IS the player to do it with. His attitude and off field personna are also very good. His only downside has been hiring douche bag agents.
by george JETson on Aug 31, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree I think his agents are lot of the problem here but at the end of the day
Revis is a man who makes the final call. Gamble is the right word 2 hold outs in 3 years. The gamble is when Revis feels he has out played his next contract whats to stop him from doing this again? Will it happen? I don’t know but based on his actions in his career so far if I am the Jets that has to come into the discussion when deciding what and how much and how soon I give Revis what. I am a huge Revis fan (not just player off the field also) but this is a concern to me.
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
Tanny and Rex have said they will renegotiate rookie contracts which the player has outperformed but will not do it for veterans. So if he does it again I would think he would be gone…but could that be one of the reasons he’s going for the gusto now?
by george JETson on Aug 31, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but thats kind of what I mean
one day if the Jets want Revis they will have to meet his terms but that is not for 3 years. Anything above his rookie contract is better then what he was suppost to make the first 6 years of his career. This is not peanuts even if its the Jets offer of 12 mil, (I think it will end up around 13-14) until he can be a free agent thats a whole hell of a lot more then he was suppost to earn this early in his career. Fine if he wants to be the highest paid guy then sign a 3 or 4 year deal and hit the market and get paid like every other elite player has done before him.
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
I only looked up two players Barry Sanders and LDT both had multiple seasons of 1500 YRDS back to back, barry 4 straight. Revis only gave up 2tds in his rookie year, to B Edwards and TO, just like last year. He’s in his 4th year and 2nd in this system. Why can’t he have another season like last year? Don’t say cuz they won’t throw at him because they knew about him last year yet he still got thrown at the most. It is Rex’s scheme that funnels throws there and revis’s talent that keeps the throws from succeeding. Tanny started this not Revis’s agents, he stated he wanted to lock Revis up, though not at Aso money. Rex has decided HIS JETS D will be built from the back forward, HE has said it will be a premium placed on CBs, HE has stated REVIS is the best defender in the league and you can see how we drafted that they mean it. After we got Cro everyone thought we would go pass rusher in the draft yet we didn’t do it at all. So for everyone else maybe DE/OLB are the value positions on D but not for THIS TEAM, CB IS and REVIS is the best. Those are the facts.
by george JETson on Aug 31, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah but if he can't get this asking price from any other team why should the Jets bid against
their own offer. Go look up the Lance Briggs contract dispute a few years back same kind of deal. The Bears made an offer, Lance felt he was worth way more then the offer. When he check around other teams didn’t value him like the Bears did. What happened he took the Bears offer and played and happy ending. No one will think of Revis at almost 17 million a year as a must have imo. But no matter the scheme who wouldn’t want a pass rusher who gets sacks?
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
Ok, 1500 for a RB isn’t the best example because it’s a great season, not an all-time one. 2k would be a better example, so would 20 sacks, as players only hit those kinds of numbers once in a career. Which brings me to the point about Revis. It may be possible for him to have another year like that, just as it’s possible Woodson will repeat as DPOY and the Saints as Superbowl champs. But is it probable? Of course not. Still, you want to give 162 million of our cap money to a guy who’s an afterthought to OC’s because he only can affect ONE offensive player?
And speaking facts, there’s a reason “everyone else” makes pass rushers such a high value position. They get teams to Superbowls. Corners on the other hand, do not.
by nationalist88 on Aug 31, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
As Rex said he knows how to get to a SB. You seem to disagree with him. It his recipe. Maybe the reason you go with pass rushers first is because there are more of them. If revis is as special as we all think, (I say if because he has to keep it up at this level for a longer period), he is up there with Deon and a few others. There hasn’t been but a few men who can affect a game from that position. You are absolutely BUGGING OUT If you think he is an after thought to OCs! Players like Ocho, Moss and AJ are targeted on 20-40 % of the pass plays, they are the 1rst option onmost pass plays. Knowing Revis is on your 1rst option effects how you game plan. Many things are debatable, Revis being an after thought to an OC because he neutralizes your #1 rec is not because that is laughable. _________ OC, “we didn’t even think about Revis this week be cause we don’t plan on throwing to our #1wr this week. Revis who?”
by george JETson on Aug 31, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
OC’s disregard Mevis as evidenced by the number of times he’s thrown at. A QB is going to his favorite target regardless. And what’s the difference really? A 100 catch receiver is averaging just over 6 touches per game, with a score about every other game. His highness reduces that to about 2 or 3 with probably no score. You think that’s worth 16 million a year? I’m glad you aren’t managing my money…
And for the record, Rex knows nothing about Superbowls until he wins one as a head coach, not a line coach in someone else’s defense. If he does it with great corners and no pass rushers, he will be the first coach in history to pull that off. I’m not buying it. Because man against man, with the game on the line, a great QB will beat a great corner. Every time.
by nationalist88 on Aug 31, 2010 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions
did you read my post just below where I say I DON't think he should get 16mil
but just because I don’t think he is worth 16 mil doesn’t make him an afterthought. A 100 catch WR catches 6+ a game but is thrown at more and is the 1rst option even more than that. And atleast one GM and coach thinks we can win a SB with great corners and no elite pass rushers, Tanny and Rex. Since the #1 D didn’t have an elite pass rusher but did have the best CB and secondary I am going to give them some leeway. Line coach or not he has one more ring then you. Plus he has the knowledge gained at his father’s side.
by george JETson on Aug 31, 2010 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point. I think 14 is a good comprimse. I never thought he should get 16 and not because the Jets can’t afford it, I think they could with a little sacrifice to depth not the Core, but like you said he wouldn’t get it anywhere else. Unless Al Davis has a twin who is bying a NFL team Revis aint getting 16 mil!
by george JETson on Aug 31, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah well I was at 12-13 but if 14 will get it done then I guess it will work?
but Revis will not come off 16.whatever a dollar more then NA gets. Kind of stinks for all of us unless we have not gotten the correct information on what is position is. Time will tell I guess.
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
I found contact information for those idiots.
http://www.sffootball.net/index.asp
Now we can bombard their office with calls and faxes. They deserve it. Assholes.
Also, when I googled those idiots, I got a
thread from over at theganggreen forums. They’re also having a pretty decent discussion about the whole thing
It's tough
How much do you give the guy and for how long do you make the contract? Would you pay him 17mil a year for 3 years, or 14mil a year for 10?
He’s not worth either.
Since he’s better than Samuel, pay him a deal that averages 10.5 mil per season, which is quite a raise considering the whiner is still under contract. Take it or leave it. Better yet, take it or leave. Kick rocks. Then two things will happen:
1. Mevis will become ordinary playing in a zone scheme, or any system that doesn’t blitz every down requiring him to stay on his man for a whole 3.5 seconds. Anyone who doubts this, please reference the Jets’ pass defense (ranked a pathetic 29th in the league) before Rex installed his system.
2. We can get an impact defensive player with a high draft pick. Or trade for one. Imagine a Woodson, Reed, Polamalu, Dumervil, Freeney or Ware type player in this defense. Passing wouldn’t be an option. And blitzing wouldn’t be mandatory to intimidate opposing QB’s.
by nationalist88 on Aug 31, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Though the Jets were 29 Revis was good, he went to the probowl that year. Ordinary doesn’t make the pro bowl. And what if he goes to a team that blitzes or gets good pressure. Or what if teams start to do what the Jets are doing, (Aso and the raiders will be playing less zone to take advantage of his cover skills, si.com story). We might have to imagine what type of passing d we might have with an elite rusher, but we know what type of passing d we have with Revis. #1 passing D even with mediocre CBs. Why trade for what ifs when we already have #1?
I’ll tell you why: we didn’t win a Championship. As a matter of fact, we haven’t even won a division title since Mevis was here. How does the best defender in the history of defense, as he’s annointed around here, not at least earn us a division title? As far as #1 defense, well that looks pretty on paper, doesn’t it? Nice stats, but we didn’t close out games like great units do. How about Henne’s last drive in Miami? Or Matt Ryan’s last drive in our own stadium? These aren’t even veteran QB’s and they’re engineering game-winning drives against us. No wonder we got decimated by Brady, embarrassed by Manning and would’ve been shredded by Brees if he wasn’t already beating us 21-0.
Ok, Mevis was better than ordinary in 2008, I’ll give you that. His majesty made the Pro Bowl. Good for him. Now tell me, what did that do for the team? What did the Jets win that year? What did we win in 2009, the best year Mevis will ever have?
And who cares if we traded him and other teams mimic our defensive strategy? They aren’t going anywhere either if their best player on defense is a corner! Especially a 162 million dollar one! Matter of fact, any team you DON’T want to see win a title, send Mevis with his contract demands and let THEM sign it.
by nationalist88 on Aug 31, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
dude the saints went up 17-0 in the sec Qrt on a field goal and Two defensive scores. We cut it to 17-10 with 7 mins left in the 3rd Qtr. Brees threw for 175 yrds in a game that was tighter than you suggest. Brady was horrible in game 1. And making it to the AFC title game in your first year with a rookie HC and QB is no small feat. I, like most jets fans and it can be argued that the HC and GM saw it this way as well, felt what we needed after the title game was better CBs. The best D with great pass rushes rarely get to Manning, Brady or brees…could that be why tanny and rex went after Cro and wilson and the only pass rusher we brought in or drafted was 36 yr old part time player JT. The game is changing, there have never been as many 4000 yrd passers as last year, maybe Rex is ahead of the curve.
by george JETson on Aug 31, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
We all know how good DR is, I don’t think that is the issue here. I’d love for him to sign, just not for what he’s asking. The bigger issue is we are talking about a guy that held out for his rookie contract, is holding out halfway through said rookie contract, and will undoubtedly hold out again in a few years when another stupid owner (i.e.-Dan Snyder) pays some hot new CB more than DR is making. That just doesn’t sit well with me when a guy puts his financial gains above the best interest of the team. No individual player is that important, and it sends a terrible message that a player can put himself above the team, and the FO will cave to his demands.
hey I can see that as a valid point. But acting like he’s not really that good or we can’t win with a CB as our best player is not. And like it or not it is Rex’s game plan and Tanny’s trading and drafting seem to back him up.
by george JETson on Aug 31, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
fact is
you don’t need the CB as your best player to win, but you need a pretty good QB to win. Revis is not worth Peyton Manning money. Manning showed us how you can get around Revis in the AFC championship.
and yet the ravens won with trent dilfer, a great D and running attack. Guess who was a coach on that team? Peyton is due a new contract, so he isn’t making what he is worth. Revis isn’t due peyton money. How were we going to get a pretty good QB? We aren’t so we have to develop Sanchez and make the team better around him. So we bring in Cro and Wilson. Revis+ those two should address what Peyton did to us. Don’t bring Revis back and it happens all over again.
What’s it gonna take for you guys to undertsand that corners are expendable? A solid pass rush will make any average corners look good. And our constant blitzing to manufacture a pass rush last year made a good corner look like he’s all-world.
Corners are so important, right? Name the starting corners for the Saints, who won last year’s Superbowl. How about the Colts, who are a threat to win it all EVERY year, who are their corners? You can’t win a title without great CB’s, right? How about the Vikings, who barely lost the NFC Championship, who are those critical pieces to the puzzle erasing WR’s in Minnesota? How about the 13-3 Chargers?
Better yet, name the game-changing corners from the most famous defenses of all time. The ’85 Bears with their 46 defense and Buddy Ryan. Of course you remember some studs from that team, but who were the corners? How about the 2000 Ravens? No, sorry, Ed Reed is a safety. The Orange Crush, Steel Curtain, Purple People Eaters? How about the New York Sack Exchange? Anybody have a corner that matters?? Oh yeah, the 2009 Raiders have a great one. Woo hoo.
Corners = waste of money
by nationalist88 on Sep 1, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
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