The Value of Preseason
by John B on Aug 28, 2010 9:30 AM EDT
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How much does preseason matter? Let's take a look at some numbers.
Quarterback A: 70% completion percentage, 2 touchdowns, 0 interceptions, 102.8 quarterback rating
Quarterback B: 67.7% completion percentage, 2 touchdowns, 2 interceptions, 90.4 quarterback rating
Quarterback C: 62.3% completion percentage, 0 touchdowns, 2 interceptions, 67.5 quarterback rating
Team A: 4-0 record, 80 points scored, 32 allowed
Team B: 0-4 record, 53 points scored, 100 points allowed
Identities revealed after the jump.
Quarterback A is Cleo Lemon during the 2006 preseason.
Quarterback B is J.P. Losman during the 2006 preseason.
Quarterback C is Drew Brees during the 2006 preseason. Brees went on to lead the Saints to the NFC Championship Game that year.
Team A is the 2008 Detroit Lions, the only team to go 0-16 during the regular season in league history.
Team B is the 2009 Arizona Cardinals, NFC West Champions and one of the last eight clubs standing.
There are obviously certain things we would like to see out of certain players in preseason games. Can it be frustrating when we don't see those things? Sure, but does it really matter? It really doesn't matter much. If you do not care for these examples, I have about a million others.
I saw people say after the Giants game that the way the first team played was proof this team is going far. They were wrong. I see people after the last two say the way the team has looked guarantees it will not be successful. They are just as wrong. It's preseason. We break down what happens on the field here. It might provide a bit of concern but only a small concern. Preseason doesn't mean much. That is unless you think Lemon and Losman are better than Brees.
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The numbers don’t matter but I’m not completely ruling out performances in particular Sanchez’s just because it’s pre-season. It’s worrying.
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I agree with David.
These are pressures that he could be facing during the regular season, and in the face of it, he’s crumbling worse than a 52 day old cookie crumbling in the sun. I’ve never seen a more panicked look on anything’s face. To say that it’s like a deer caught in the headlights is a severe understatement. It’s kind of like former President Bush’s face the second they told him the WTC was just attacked. And it happens everytime Sanchez has pressure in the face.
Maybe Sanchez should just sit his sorry self over on the sideline and read “My Pet Goat.”
Please don’t make 9/11 references like this. A lot people who read this site lost somebody on that day.
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by John B on Aug 28, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Please don't speak about tolerance.
If people had tolerance, there would have been something done when a hindu man is being mistaken for a muslim terrorist everyday for 4 years, suffering severe verbal, and sometimes physical abuse.
No disrespect JB
I apologize. I lost someone too.
It's not the event I'm emphasizing
It’s the inaction.
Yeah I am a little worried the season is right around the corner
but I am not writing Mark off as a bust because of 2 games
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
I'm with you man
but it’s worrying me. I lost a lot of sleep when his name was read on draft day.
I also wish he was playing better. I’m concerned about many of the same things, but I’d be concerned heading into the season about those things even if he was playing well.
Nothing is the same in the preseason as it is in the regular season. Teams experiment with personnel, packages, play calling, etc. in preseason. Sometimes intensity and focus are not the same. It’s difficult to take too much from these games.
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The thing is that I don’t worry that much about Veterans, like Woody has been terrible, but I expect him to pick it up once we hit the regular season. However I think it’s different for the younger players, because Sanchez is playing and making the same mistakes as he was during the season last year, so if it’s lack of focus or anything like that then he didn’t have it during the regular season either.
Definitely not writing him off, and you can only judge on regular season play, but for all the talk this off-season of play-offs and Superbowls…..so far he hasn’t shown us how he’s leading us there. I hope he picks it up when we go to the regular season, but I’m skeptical.
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by David_Wyatt on Aug 28, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m kind of the opposite. I worry about older guys because you never know when they’ve lost it. Maybe that’s why we’re such a good team lol. Good contrast in opinions.
The thing about Sanchez is that he’s shown he’s capable of playing smart, going through his progressions, protecting the football, etc. We’ve seen flashes, and he really came on at the end of last year. I feel like it’s going to click for him. I’m contrasting him with a guy like Gholston who has shown nothing over the past two years and we are really just kind of hoping will contribute with nothing to go on aside from preseason.
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I think we should use Ducasse at Right Tackle.
Upgrade over Woody.
well Vlad looks like he should be in the D league (if the NFL had one)
Dow the road I think that was why he was drafted but he is not ready to out erform Woody yet imo.
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
He needs a year with Bill, his tech isn’t perfected yet, not even close. You don’t really expect it to be coming out of UMASS.
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yup..but it seems like he has all the tools to be great down the road
like you said a lot of it has to do with the competition he faced at UMASS plus switching for T to G. But thats okay Slaus has looked like he can start at G (again it is just preseason) which so far makes me feel better about cutting Faneca
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
I’ve actually been really impressed by Slaus, with more reps he’ll only get better. He pulled last night and delivered a great block that sprang LDT for that 43 yard run.
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Very very happy with Slaus so far
Well I have to be honest the 2 moves I have questioned the most
were Faneca and L(21)T.
Not to say I didn’t like Slaus, I guess I didn’t know enough about him. He looks great just being put with the starting O line.
And what can you say about L(21)T he looks 26 years old the way he is running with burst.
Well happy to say I has wrong big time on both moves.
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
because of 2 games that don't even count.
Does anyone remember our record in last pre season? I don’t.
Again who’s talking record? it’s performance….it’s not world is ending type stuff, but it’s slightly worrying.
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by David_Wyatt on Aug 28, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree, slightly worrying,
that’s about it. I’m getting the vibe people think it is world ending though.
Maybe a few, but I think most are just a little worried about the “seemingly” lack of progress by Sanchez. Will wait to see how he does against Baltimore with the full offensive arsenal in place before getting really worried.
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Bart Scott has commented that they never game plan for the preseason, and I know Rex doesn’t like to “help” his defense during preseason just to see what they’re made of.
I don’t know about the offense though.
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If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
I always assumed they did some game planning to some extent. I do remember last week Sanchez saying that they game plan for Game 3.
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If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
the overall bad performance doesnt scare me
but in particular, the fact that sanchez continues to make terrible throws when he should just throw it away is worrying. I dont see how he has matured at all as a QB
Well I must say that pick Mark was trying to throw to Keller was prety bad
I didn’t see Keller open at any time during that route.
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
I’ve watched it over and over. The camera angle was terrible, but it looked like there was a something of a tight window, and Sanchez misfired. Look at how Keller was diving because the throw was off target.
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I said yesterday it was a terrible throw and it was, but I don’t want to not give any credit to Hall, he baited and jumped to perfection. They highlighted it on the coverage, he dropped back which made it look like Keller was in single coverage for a second, then jumped as soon as the ball was released. So will give him credit, but it’s those kinds of things that he needs to start reading if he wants to make the next step.
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by David_Wyatt on Aug 28, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Watched it again and froze it. Hall was even with Keller when the ball was picked. Bad throw.
As you mentioned, though, he stared Keller down.
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He was doing that all night, was getting very frustrated with it.
To his defence, the play-calling has been as vanilla as I can remember it in a pre-season. So hopefully Schotty is holding something back.
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by David_Wyatt on Aug 28, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
come on you guys, its pre season, you really cant judge the 1st team when there not giveing it there all. or look at it like this , do you really think greenbay would slaughter the colts the way they did the other night (59 – 24 ) in the regular season? i think not, so honestly we really cant judge them , or am i just looking for excuses
Excuses
Think about it… Sanchez hasn’t looked really good in any of these games has he? I know it’s preseason but he IS facing REAL pressure from opposing defenses. He’s not only projecting his reads, he’s basically mistaking corners for his receivers. He might as well hold up a sign every down saying “I’M GOING TO THROW IT THERE, OKAY? MAKE SURE YOU’RE OVER THERE, FREE PICKS!” and on the sideline it should read “WILLING TO INFLATE ANY STATS EXCEPT FOR MY OWN AND MY TEAM’S!”
Exactly.
At least Peyton and Brees and Brady and, I can’t believe I’m saying this, Bradford has taken command of his team and drove down the field. At least at some point they’ve done some real quarterbacking and some good throws and really pressured the defense.
Sanchez basically dinked and dunked through the whole pre-season. At no point could you take a series or a drive and nudge your buddy and say, “See… thats how its done. Thats how you QB in the big show.”
Lol
Bradford under thru Avery on a ball that Avery had to slow up on and eventually tore his knee up. If the same thing happened to holmes you would be blaming Sanchez, saying he thru the ball bad on purpose, planning on taking out Holmes’ knee, im some kind of Darrelle Revis support move/
Bradford went 15-22, 189 yds, 2 TDs, 0 INTs
Sanchez 13-21, 139, 1 TD, 1 INT
[however the final drive was against the Skins 2nd unit where he went 6-8 for 60 yards and a TD]
So basically against the real team, Sanchez was 7-13 for 79 yards with 0 TDs and 1 INT. Yeah that performance really makes you want to gas up the Superbowl bus.
John B. , you have it right!
THIS IS ONLY PRESEASON!
I am glad at least some of you Jets fans are putting things more into perspective.
Over at the Phinsider Matty and everyone else is going bonkers because the Dolphins lost to the Falcons. Try telling them that after going 7-9 on top of a 4-0 preseason last year and they really shouldn’t be saying the sky is falling, but they are.
So some Jets fans aren’t the idiots most Fins fans think you are. Good for you!
wow, nice backhanded compliment lol
Yeah I was over at the phinsider and you would think the four horsemen were visible in the sky. Throw in the Pats defensive showing on Thursday and so much for the AFC East being the toughest division huh.
But bottom line is (and it’s true for both fan bases), niether team is going to be as good as when everything clicks, and niether team is going to be as horrid as when things aren’t going to go our way. Thw answer is always somewhere in the middle. Both teams will be alright (of course witrh the Jets being on top lol). These are professionals we are talking about and when the regular season comes about there level of play will greatly increase. Not that that will directly translate into wins and losses, but these players will improve like they do every year.
The sky is not falling.
España 2010 Campenoes del Mundo!!!
Preseason doesn't translate to regular season
Since 2004, 10 teams have gone undefeated in the preseason. Their regular season records?
7-9
13-3
8-8
8-8
9-7
8-8
0-16
9-7
7-9
5-11
So the sky in fact is not falling, no matter what Chicken Little says. The Jets still have a lot of work to do, though.
I don’t think anyone cares about the W/L record, and speaking personally I’m concerned about certain performances, couldn’t care any less about whether we are winning or losing these games at the final whistle.
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by David_Wyatt on Aug 28, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
It’s more troubling about the play of the starters than the W/L record. Hope they can get if fixed in the next 2 weeks. Just pointing out the fact that preseason play doesn’t necessarily mean anything in the regular season.
Exactly
We heard all summer about how hard he studied the playbook, and how learned the line protections, and the chemistry he developed with his receivers and his little camp and all that. We heard about how he’s better able to read defenses and has real checkdown options.
I’ve seen absolutely no progress. None. Zero. His reads take an hour and he still stares down receivers and he still throws it where it has no business going. He just hasn’t shown any quarterbacking skills at all.
I keep hearing that accuracy is one of his strengths and thats such a crock of shit. HIs accuracy sucks. And his timing and anticipation sucks. And his pocket presence sucks. He’s got zero poise in the pocket. And he STILL dangles the ball out there with one hand begging for it to be stripped.
I don't agree.
He’s shown that he can stand in and take a shot if he has to. But he can’t slide within the pocket to avoid the rush and buy time for receivers down field. He’s taken sacks this pre-season that should be avoidable for someone with his kind of ability.
You see guys like Brady and Manning step up in the pocket and slide left/right to avoid the rush all the time. While im not expecting him to be as adept at that as they are, he should be able to step up and flush out while keeping his eyes down field. He just doesn’t seem to have any pocket awareness.
And while he did slide on one play, on another he took a d-lineman head on and came up one yard shy on a 3 & 2. That play in particular is one that I think he should have been able to extend and make a throw down field. Or at least flush out and scramble for a quick 2 yards. But instead he panicked and put his head down and ran into a d-lineman.
Lol. Yup. Went right over my head. Wasn’t the first and won’t be the last time i make myself look like a jackass.
There should be some kind of sarcasm symbol that can be added after a post…..I miss it all the time, so you’re not alone.
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by David_Wyatt on Aug 28, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Amazin’ Avenue tried a sarcasm tag at one point. But guys there are a bit more used to it. Omar, Jerry, and the Wilpons inspire darker comedy
Not sure they need one
Isn’t it just assumed that every post is sarcastic? :-)
Over at Amazin' Avenue,
we use gray font to indicate sarcasm. Like this
Is the sun going to come up tomorrow?
How do you do that?
I never understood what that was all about when I have seen it.
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
You aren't a jackass though
I have read here for a long time and always considered you one of the top readers/posters here. That’s why I find it so strange you are flying off the ledge because of a preseason game.
I appreciate that man.
And normally i don’t care about the pre-season. I look for indicators more than stats or wins and losses.
What we all wanted to see from Sanchez was a better completion percentage, more command, and a disappearance of absolute boneheadness.
I can forgive him trying to stick it into double-coverage sometimes, but i can’t forgive him locking onto receivers as often as he does still. I can’t forgive his utter lack of presence.
Like Shonn Greene. His stats have been basically unimpressive this pre-season. But if you watch him play and see how he reads and runs, you have confidence he’ll be ok in the reg season.
I wanted to see an indication of some QBing from Sanchez. I wanted to see him walk up to the line, see what the defense is in, know its weakness, know where he’s going with the ball, and stick it in there on time and on target. I saw it on one play last night: the first throw on the playaction slant to Edwards.
But all i’ve seen is the guy that we saw last regular season. The guy that can’t read a defense, the guy who just mechanically goes with his first read come hell or high water. The guy that squeezes the ball while waiting and waiting for something to open up while missing the open reads time and time again. The guy who ignores an open receiver in the flat and tries to stick it into double coverage after he’s stared his man down for an hour.
And dookie i know your a smart guy and that you know your football, but how can you gloss over his lack of development? I understand that we’re not game-planning yet, but neither are our opponents. Whats he gonna do when they start pressuring him and speeding up his reads and taking away the outside throws?
Im an amateur and i can tell you how to beat him. Flush him to his left by blitzing his right side. Speed him up and make him throw it into the middle of the field or to the left side where he’s uncomfortable. What do you think real pros are gonna do to this kid?
If the Jets offense looks this bad in like week 3 or 4, I will be genuinely concerned,
I just truly don’t take anything from preseason because I think our offense is just running basic stuff that is easy to cover. I mean, Santonio Holmes hasn’t even played with the first team offense yet outside a few snaps, and look what he did on a simple throw and catch the other day. Albeit, he coughed the rock up but he turned a 2 yarder into 20 yards. Ladainian can do that too, so can Edwards, even Cotch and Keller to an extent. I think we will show more during the season, and I don’t think Sanchez has to do much more then just hit the open man. I’m not saying the offense didn’t stink last night, but it’s just one preseason game, I can’t take anything from 2 series vs Carolina and they looked good against the Giants. I think between Mike T and Rex we are in good hands here and that we will find a way to win football games.
For now, we can agree to disagree, or just agree to agree on this....
Trade Gallo and Curry and first rounder for Melo! No waiting for free agency if you can get him now!!
Yeah it is kind of odd
Makes it pretty tough to fill out the end of the roster when your first stringers are playing into the 4th qtr.
And pretty useless for getting starters meaningful reps. They might as well be playing in practice situations rather than against other teams’ scrubs
I agree Sanchez has been looking shaky, but
the o-line has look worse with their pass blocking. Also, the d-line has not been getting no pressure.
On Sanchez...
I’ve been expecting/dreading that sophomore slump since last year ended. Although, I’m also need feeding myself from the hype machine around the Jets this year, so I’m not terribly likely to be disappointed either.
The kid is… well… still a kid and still short of experience. I think the hype on the team is gonna build WAY too much in the way of expectations for Sanchez this year. I figure he’ll be up and done. Now, if he’s still playing like this in the 2012 season… THEN I’ll be concerned.
I thought the sophomore slump (which I don't believe in anyway)
was something reserved for rookies who really excelled and made a big impact. The Matador didn’t have a good season when all was said and done last year, so I don’t think the sophomore slump would even apply to him.
Although preseason win loss is meaningless
In Green Bay they don’t play the starters more than 2 or 3 aeries in any pregame except the 3rd where they got to play a half. The preseason to us is strictly evaluating players. They are trying to see if the concepts and techniques are translating to a game type situation. We play totally vanilla schemes as I believe most teams do that are considered playoff contenders. I do like to see us winning for my own ego when our starters leave the game though.
Honestly…whatever. It’s preseason. I think Jets fans just react the way we do because Sanchez can be downright awful most of the time and playing this way during the preseason isn’t good to watch. We will do fine and he will do fine.
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devils and stuff...
by Josh Weinstein on Aug 29, 2010 12:07 AM EDT reply actions
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