Levels of Quarterback Confidence
by John B on Jul 16, 2010 7:00 AM EDT
63 comments
Quarterback is the most important position on the field. I thought it might be a fun idea to break the projected starting quarterbacks in the league into categories. The quarterbacks below are ranked in no particular order within their grouping.
Elite Franchise Quarterbacks
These guys are the cream of the crop. They will make any team competitive. Surround them with a decent supporting cast, and you are a Super Bowl contender. Down by 4 on the road with 4:00 left in a conference title game, you're extremely confident the quarterback is putting the ball in the end zone.
Franchise Quarterbacks
These are guys you can build a team around. They can carry a team to a Super Bowl. They just don't evoke as much confidence as the elite franchise guys. It might be due to a tendency to melt down in big games. It might be due to too much risk taking. It might be due to off field behavior taking these guys off the field and forcing questions about their leadership. You just don't feel quite as safe with them.
Potential Franchise Quarterbacks
These are young players with the potential to become franchise quarterbacks. They just have not shown enough for anybody to say whether or not they eventually will become one. Some are further along than others, but all have questions. When all is said and done, they could end up anywhere else on this list.
Matt Stafford, Lions
Matt Moore, Panthers
Matt Ryan, Falcons
Reputation Quarterbacks
These guys at one point had a franchise quarterback reputation, but their recent play does not justify it. These guys aren't carrying a team to a championship by themselves at this point in their careers.
Matt Hasselbeck, Seahawks
Game Manager Quarterbacks
You could do much worse than these guys, but you could also do much better. These guys won't necessarily lose many games on their own, but they cannot carry a team deep into the Playoffs consistently. You might be able to talk yourself into these guys. They might play over their heads for a year. They just are not franchise players, though. You need a complete team around them to have a chance at making a run. You're fine with them as a backup playing a game or two, but their warts show through over 16 games.
Matt Cassel, Chiefs
Alex Smith, 49ers
Bad Quarterbacks
If these guys are your starter, you're probably looking forward to the Draft before the season even starts. Things are going to get ugly.
These rankings indicate about one-third of the league has a franchise quarterback. It's no accident most of the consistently successful franchise have a guy up there. The rest of the league is searching.
What are your thoughts on the list? Is anybody misplaced? Are there any levels you would create?
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In general I am considered a kind person but......
whoever put this list together is an idiot…….or 12.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
hey
how about taking your own advice and being objective and respectful.
I do apologize, I am not a perfect person. Sometimes I fall short.
It just get very old listening to people who don’t really look closely and disrespect Carson Palmer. I am not trying to make a case that Carson is an elite QB. But lets just look at what he has done. He won the division in his second year and got his knee blown out ona questionable hit in the playoff game. His knee was damaged big time. He came back the next two years and threw for over 4000 yards with a horrible pieced together defense. The next year he get gets his throwing elbow torn up after 4 games and loses the rest of the year. He comes back the next year and gets his ankle rolled up on in the first series of the first PS game and doesn’t take another snap until the first regular season game in which he engineers his first of 7 last possession drives to win the game only to get beat with the “immaculate deflection” to Stokley. (no sour grapes here those things happen). He loses both of his starting TEs in TC, injures his left thumb which eliminates any play action, Coles is a bust, Chad is his only legit WR and is double and sometimes triple covered on every play. I think I could make a case that he did more with less than about any QB in the league. One bad full year of play and he goes from ProBowl MVP to a “reputatiom” QB. Healthy, he has never had less than a franchise year. He deserves more respect. 8 or 9 of the QBs rated above him should be below him. Ratings really don’t mean much but Carson deserves more respect than he is being given. To borrow a line from Lou Brown I think there is a real possibility the Carson is going to serve up a big shit burger for a lot of people to eat.
Again John B, I apologize, it just pisses me off when people rip Carson. He deserves more respect than he is getting.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
You don’t need to apologize. I can take it.
I don’t really see how you can state past accomplishments as your primary defense, though, and then bash me for saying he’s living off his reputation. I know he was great in the past. That’s why he has the reputation.
Last year the Bengals had as many yards per attempt as the Jets did. They were well behind teams like Washington and Baltimore with even more suspect receiving corps. Carson’s numbers were suspect. His team relied much more on running and defense. He played very poorly against the Jets in the Playoffs.
And he in no way did more with less than guys like Manning, Brees, and Rivers did last season. Given his running game and defense, he had a lot surrounding him.
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I apologized because it was the right thing to do - not because you couldn't
handle it. I retain my position that Carson when healthy has never had less than a franchise performance. H ad his knee blown out and came back the next year and didn’t miss a game and threw for over 4000 and did it again the next year. Since then he has had three injuries and played injured a;; year last year. If he stays healthy I predict another 4000 year and a probowl worthy performance. Just so I can prepare, do you want fries with that shitburger?
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
Carson maybe able to rise back to the top but I doubt it because of all the injuries you stated. Think about all the quarterbacks on the list one thing in common many seasons without missing games due to injuries. Just about every qb in the top 2 categories never had more than one injury that caused them to miss games in a season. Compare that to the 4 significant injuries Carson had.
leave it to a Bengals fan to be disrespectful in someone else's site
Healing from my new tattoos
Franco made that play because he never quit on the play. He kept running, he kept hustling. Good things happen to people who hustle."
Every fanbase has their good and bad.
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Bengals are just all bad..haha
jk
Healing from my new tattoos
Franco made that play because he never quit on the play. He kept running, he kept hustling. Good things happen to people who hustle."
I said I was wrong and I sincerely apologize for it. I am embarrassed by my response.
Has anyone here ever responded out of anger and frustration? If not, then you are a better man than I. Kudos to you. I am also man enough to admit it and not walk away and hide. I could, if I cared to, point out many posts by Ravens and yes Steeler fans as well as Jets fans and others who come on and troll our boards and I cannot remember ever seeing an apology. Do I think this is a mediocre at best rating attempt – yes. Do I think that there are many 12 year olds that could have done just as well – yes. And, I have a right to my opinion – but I do not have the right to to be disrespectful. I was sorry I posted it and I apologized because my conscious bothered me. He has a right to his opinion. I would like to think that in a similar situation I would be able to accept a sincere apology and move on. I cannot say for sure because nobody from the Steelers, Ravens or any other team has ever apologized.
My dad taught me that when you do something wrong you should apologize, do your best to make it right and do your best not to do it again. He was a smart man. I have done that.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
Im sorry for trolling
:(. but yeah I have responded out of anger. but usually by the time it takes to type in the anger issues they have gone by. This was a well thought out poast. everyon has their own opinions and are allowed to express it. I think Ben belongs with the top 3 and Brees just joined the top echelon. he needed that ring to get there. but Ben has 2. 2 Super Bowl wins and should have had the MVP last time. But he is still not considered in the top3 let alone the top 5 in most lists
Healing from my new tattoos
Franco made that play because he never quit on the play. He kept running, he kept hustling. Good things happen to people who hustle."
Pretty good list no major arguments. If Rivers gets Jackson and McNeil back he has a chance at joining the elite. Also I would fully expect Rogers to make the jump as good as he is now I fully expect him to better with all the time he spends in the offseason. Romo has a outside shot Eli never excited me, I had McNabb in fantasy but every highlight it seemed DeShawn Jackson blew by a reciever and was stopped waiting for the ball kinda like Moss Culpepper years ago, the reciever helped the QB look good. Farve had the greatest season of his career have to expect huge let down just based on history of aging quarterbacks no one beats father time. Big Ben I wouldn’t want on my team.
The rest, Schaub’s a guy I’d put in franchise group. Kevin Kolb looked awesome and I expect big things from him and I trust Andy Ried’s judgement but it seems everyone looks good until their on film and a defense analyzes how to attack so well see. Liked Stafford’s toughness looked decent couple times I saw him for a rookie but stat’s were real bad for season. Sanchez looked good in playoffs but looked horrible in regular season when run game was shut down. Not sure how you put Bradford there. Iwant to see more of Ryan, Flacco(he didn’t look great one time I saw him in person at Lambeau) but I think he has good upside. I like Henne. Palmer and Hasselbeck don’t seem to have it anymore.
Well a lot of this will be a lot clearer in about 6 months so it will be interesting to see opinions after the season. LET’S GET ON WITH THE SEASON.
It’s hard to have a good informed opinion not all teams get the same t.v. time. So good luck everyone unless your playing the PACK.
Matt Leinart will probably be a shock to you this season.
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I totally disagree with the first comment – this list is nearly flawless. The one major change I would make is to move Matt Schaub to “Franchise.” Even if he has yet to peak, I think by now he’s demonstrated he’s the real deal. I certainly wouldn’t rank him next to a totally unproven commodity like Sam Bradford.
Good call on the severely slumping Carson Palmer, by the way.
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Good list no arguments at all...
aside from Leinart, who I think the jury is still out on and could go either way.
I figured I’d get some dissenting voices on Leinart. It was another close call. My feeling was just that a top ten pick is supposed to have more than 17 starts and better than a 70 rating in four years. I know Warner was great, but again this was a top ten pick. He was supposed to be that good.
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Not sure what that first comment was about, pretty much agree all along here…but like Max said, I think I’d move Schaub up, and although Leinart has done nothing suggest he should be higher right now, I think if you do this next year….he will be in the next bracket up.
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I would put Rivers in he Elite group.
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Nah...
he has to win a superbowl first, he’s had enough talent around him to do that and hasn’t even gotten close yet.
Also while he puts up gaudy numbers (so does Schuab) he has shown that consistent ability to just take over a game and make his team win like the other three (and Favre in his prime).
If anything I think Rothlisberger's the closest to that level
but last year and his current off field problems kind of throw a kink in it.
off field problems are not played between the hash marks
Healing from my new tattoos
Franco made that play because he never quit on the play. He kept running, he kept hustling. Good things happen to people who hustle."
and last year was his best statistical season
Healing from my new tattoos
Franco made that play because he never quit on the play. He kept running, he kept hustling. Good things happen to people who hustle."
I disagree, they are played between the hash marks when the person in question can’t play between the hash marks. Like Big Ben, like Santonio Holmes and the Williams in Minny (if that’s upheld). Big effect between the hash marks. If you can’t rely on your players to be on the field….how can they be listed among the elite.
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Absolutely...
its why Pacman can’t get a job, and why Vick is a back -up QB. No one would touch Big Ben with a ten foot pole right now if they didn’t have to.
I don’t know, his coming into the game with the torn ACL and Legbrace on was pretty epic.
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then why isnt Roethlisberger in the elite list then
he did win 2 super bowls
Healing from my new tattoos
Franco made that play because he never quit on the play. He kept running, he kept hustling. Good things happen to people who hustle."
Well reason 1 would be his suspension, and character issues...
he is one bad night away from not being an NFL QB, let alone an Elite one.
But besides that I would say he just doesn’t have the stats yet, he hasn’t proven that when the offense is thrown on your shoulder you have the ability to win it all. Yes he has the Superbowls, but those were complete teams that could have probably done it with any franchise QB. While the other three were the main reasons their teams won it all, they did it putting up ridiculous numbers. While Big Ben put up his first truly great (not just good) offensive statistical year last year, the team didn’t even make the playoffs. He has only one year of 4000+ yards, only 2 with 20+ TDs.
yeah right?
he hasn’t proven that when the offense is thrown on your shoulder you have the ability to win it all
I dont think you have seen the 05 playoffs and 08 playoffs? end result 2 Super Bowls
Oh and the 05 playoffs games all were on the road vs the top teams of the AFC. Divsonal rival Bengals. Number 1 seed Colts in the noisy RCA and Number 2 seed in Mile High. I believe he threw 1 pick in all three games. Oh he also faced the top and league’s highest scoring team. He did have a bad game but it could have been worse
08 Super Bowl he did have the GW drive with a td pass to your new receiver Holmes.by the way great trade on your part
Healing from my new tattoos
Franco made that play because he never quit on the play. He kept running, he kept hustling. Good things happen to people who hustle."
sorry i should have made this clearer
Oh he also faced the top and league’s highest scoring team. He did have a bad game but it could have been worse
I was talking about the Seahawks
Healing from my new tattoos
Franco made that play because he never quit on the play. He kept running, he kept hustling. Good things happen to people who hustle."
Can't take the Superbowl from Eli, but
I have to stop short of calling him one of the Franchise Quarterbacks. I wouldn’t call the third tier Potential Franchise Quarterbacks. Young Guns is a better name for them, and Matt Leinart deserves to be with these young guns. He only lost his job to a future hall of famer. Not a bad list.
Good/interesting post, John!
Agree with most, except with Vince Young being a potential franchise QB. His best days are already behind him, he was a system QB in college, and a headcase to boot. It certainly doesn’t help that he has an extremely inaccurate arm, and in the NFL, consistency is key. Vince can’t provide that.
Also, I would maybe even though Jason Campbell in franchise QB’s. He is much better then he showed in Washington, remember he had to constantly learn new schemes with all the new coaches that came through, and he was under idiot Jim Zorn. I think OAK will be a great new start for him, and I think he is a very capable QB and we will see that. Accurate arm, doesn’t turn the ball over much, makes very good decisions.
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by Matt Birch on Jul 16, 2010 1:36 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
+1 on Campbell
Didn’t think about that, like the guy as a QB and he has a few things to work with in Oakland (a team that I think will finish with a respectable W/L this year)
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Totally agree on Young. Put aside the inconsistent play and lack of any accuracy. And let’s forget that he couldn’t outscore an 8 year old on an intelligence test. Nevermind the mental breakdowns, rumors of suicide and wanting to quit playing football. Has anything besides his overinflated draft status suggested he could lead a team anywhere? And Jason Campbell isn’t even a franchise backup. Maybe taking his ineffective play to Oakland will convince people of that. They were better off with Gradkowski.
BTW, IMO there should be another category for unknown commodities; guys like Bradford, Moore, and Kolb…
by nationalist88 on Jul 17, 2010 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Jason Campbell had had the worst luck, he gets a new OC every year lol. I think he he potential he just can’t start from scratch every off season.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Exactly, let’s be fair to the kid! New schemes/new playbooks every season! That’s a lot for a youngin, you have to COACH the kid.
Oh, Zorny!
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BTW
I think the Trio of QBs in Buffalo right now might be one of the worst sets of QBs since the 2000 Bengals duo of Scott Mitchell and Akili Smith. For people that don’t remember, those two managed 5 games of under 100 passing yards, including a 14 passing yard game against the Broncos. During that 14 yard game, they combined to go 2 for 14.
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Don't agree with every one, but....
it really is a fascinating way to “catalogue” NFL QBs. I agree with David and some others that Campbell is better than his past has shown, having to play within a different offensive every year starting in college. (BTW, I wonder which category “Zorny” would be placed).
But the comments are about as insightful as the post itself. Gotta rec.
Chad Pennington!!!
Forgot about Chad. He is still playing you know. He should fit right there in game manager, very few QBs are as good as him at managing, I mean with that arm and still being in the NFL. Very accurate, good leader and smart. He should be a very good front office guy soon.
Jets green since 1997
These kinds of lists will always create a thousand disputes, but McNabb as a franchise QB? Yikes.. Really? Not on my team. If he’s proven anything in his career, it’s that he CAN’T win big games. As in flat out refusal… Romo is also a stretch since he is a no-show in the postseason, but his gaudy regular season stats at least give him a reasonable argument.
as well as McNabb
he took his teams to 4 NFC championships and 1 Super Bowl. That is franchise QB. at least for the Eagles.
Healing from my new tattoos
Franco made that play because he never quit on the play. He kept running, he kept hustling. Good things happen to people who hustle."
+!
Thats crazy, as soon as he had a top flight reciever like the other franchise QBs on that list, he went to the super bowl the first year.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
he had 3rd rate WRs and still took them to the NFC championship game
He needed Owens that year. If they would have stayed together they probably would have gone back to the Super Bowl. w/e I hate the Eagles
Healing from my new tattoos
Franco made that play because he never quit on the play. He kept running, he kept hustling. Good things happen to people who hustle."
So, a QB who had a better Rookie year than Sanchez, Freeman, and Stafford is awful?
Leinart played well in his first year, and he didn’t have Fitzgerald for 3 1/2 games, along with an awful o-line and no running game. And the #3 receiver wasn’t as good as Breaston was, he had Bryant Johnson who dropped everything that was thrown at him.
Yeah, he wasn’t good in his second year, but he was learning a new offensive system, and he was in the QB tandem with Warner. You can use the new playbook excuse for Campbell and Smith, yet it doesn’t work for Leinart?
Besides, after being slammed to the ground and having his collarbone broken, Warner played out of his mind and most QBs in the NFL would lose their starting spot to him. And he hasn’t always looked good in spot duty, but in the one game he was a starter in since 2007 when he was injured he did look good, and he played well enough to win that game [if only the defense could have gotten a stop on one of those THREE 4TH DOWN PLAYS!!!]
I’m not saying that he should be put in with the Franchise QBs, I’m just saying that he hasn’t had enough time to prove himself, he has only been a starter in 17 games. I think he will be good enough to keep his starting job this year although he won’t be as good as Warner [I’m seeing something like 3500 yards, 23 Touchdowns and 14 Picks].
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I can't stand fair-weather/bandwagon fans, stick with your team, throughout the good and the bad. And don't switch to whichever team wins the Super Bowl each year.
Im always in the mood for a good debate :)
Down by 4 on the road with 4:00 left in a conference title game, you’re extremely confident the quarterback is putting the ball in the end zone.
good thing you didnt say Super Bowl.
God Peyton- INT with 3 min and 12 seconds in SB 44
Lord Brady- cant say much about him. as much as I hate him he is very good at 4th Q comeback wins, but still the K ultimately put the final points in 2 of their SB victories.
ESPN Favorite Brees- don’t know. he just scores a lot of points
Healing from my new tattoos
Franco made that play because he never quit on the play. He kept running, he kept hustling. Good things happen to people who hustle."
I am not really impressed by Brady’s last minute SB wins. The pressure just wasn’t there. His team wasn’t behind, the worst case scenario was overtime. To his credit, he did do what needed to be done.
Joe Montana, Kurt Warner, Eli Manning, and Ben are the only other QBs to win the SB in the final 2 minutes, and they did it from behind with TDs.
neither am I but
he still gets credited for those drives.
Where is everyone at this site?
Healing from my new tattoos
Franco made that play because he never quit on the play. He kept running, he kept hustling. Good things happen to people who hustle."
Nice post....
But Schaub is the Franchise QB in Houston.
He led the league in passing yds, attempts, and completions
He was the pro bowl MVP
He had the 6th all time most passing yards last year
He had a horrible game against the Jets lol
I do think over half the league would be happy to replace their QB with Schaub… I read somewhere the only reason you didnt put him in the franchise QB list was because he’s never taken the Texans to the Playoffs? I dont think that has anything to do with making somebody your franchise QB. You make them your franchise QB, then they take you to the playoffs once the team gets adjusted to him and vice versa. Many people have him ranked in the top 3-5 Qbs for fantasy football, but thats completely something different.
Other than that, it really was a great read.
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