Gang Green Nation Community Mock Draft Pick #29
by John B on Apr 8, 2010 7:53 AM EDT
Email
PrintEverybody stand up.
J
E
T
S
Jets! Jets! Jets!
Gang Green is on the clock so we're going to open this up to everybody. It wouldn't be fair to let one person decide so we'll leave a poll up. It has the name of potential picks at this slot. I'll also leave a write in option. The guy with the most votes by 4 PM Eastern is the pick.
74 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
This is not a case of whether you think someone will be there or not, in this instance, Odrick is there, and it would happen…..so if you wanted Odrick, you should of selected Odrick.
Writer/Assistant editor
Eternal optimist
New York Jets
Gang Green Nation
www.ganggreennation.com
Jets/Cubs/Marshall/ND
If these are the guys that are actually available at 29, that would be pretty friggin badass! I voted Odrick, but I’m surprised that there are only 2 votes as of right now for Hughes.
One thing I was thinking—if we pick up Jason Taylor, I’m thinking it means we’re gonna go offense with the first pick. If Tate was available here and we grabbed him I’d be happy with that too.
Odrick
We need a DE to not only fill the spot vacated by Douglas, but also to upgrade at that position. Having Odrick, Ellis, and Jenkins as our 3 down lineman will help stop the opponents running game and also tie up blockers to help free the linebackers. I may lean towards Hughes if it were not for the Jason Taylor courting. Odrick is going to be a force for many years to come and he will thrive under Rex Ryan.
^^^^Exactly
The only part I’d sort of disagree on is that even if we didn’t get Taylor, I’d probably still draft Odrick before Hughes.
yeah I agree because we can still get a starter at OLB in the 2nd round.
by chrebetsthebet on Apr 8, 2010 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Except its a reach to think Odrick can play end in the 3-4
Odricks ideal position is three tackle in a 4-3 not DE in a 3-4 (especially RR’s 3-4), many reports I’ve read on him say he’s not strong enough to hold blocks or to handle double teams, and that he has a weak lower body. His strength is as a pass rusher (ideally in the 4-3 where he’s not doubled) with his quickness and ability to penetrate from the three.
NO NOT TAYLOR MAYS FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
WHY HAVE SEVEN PEOPLE VOTED FOR HIM
I would draft him no sooner than the third round. The team that drafts him before that, is making a mistake.
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
Tate getting votes makes more sense than Mays getting votes.
Writer/Assistant editor
Eternal optimist
New York Jets
Gang Green Nation
www.ganggreennation.com
Jets/Cubs/Marshall/ND
I guess there is a feeling Mays may be able to be a pass rushing linebacker in our 3-4 scheme. I don’t see how. He would be a bigger project than Gholston. He has never played the position, isn’t a sound tackler, undersized, can’t shred blocks AND would still have to drop into coverage if he was a regular.
I honestly thought that Odrick would run around with 70%+ of the votes with a few scattered for Hughes and Tate….
Writer/Assistant editor
Eternal optimist
New York Jets
Gang Green Nation
www.ganggreennation.com
Jets/Cubs/Marshall/ND
WHY Odrick????
Look at the tape! Jerry Hughes is a Monster! He is everywhere and fast! the tape on Odrick is like YAwwNN. I think if both these guys are on the board still we should take Hughes over and over again.
by David Leininger on Apr 8, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
You do realize we play a 3-4, and that the DE’s are not supposed to be blowing up everybody. We are short, and old at that position. Don’t look at the tape, think about the last few years of what Odrick has done, he is loved for a reason, he works hard, he holds his ground, he can play all over the line. We need to get younger at the DE position. It makes perfect sense.
Writer/Assistant editor
Eternal optimist
New York Jets
Gang Green Nation
www.ganggreennation.com
Jets/Cubs/Marshall/ND
But to think that Odrick can play DE in the 3-4 is a stretch...
he’s a three tackle who has a weak lower body, he has just as much chance to be a total flop at end than he does to succeed, he needs to play the three to work angles and use his quickness.
I don’t see why everyones so in love with Odrick, its like you all just think hes a fit for what we need, but the truth is he may be a total flop and a complete risk.
He doesn’t have a lower body, seen you say that before, but he constantly took on double teams at Penn State and still managed penetration, you don’t do that with a weak lower body. He can work all along the defensive line because he has all the skills, he has nice pass rush moves, he has a solid hand placement, good shredding moves, and a good motor, as well as above average quickness, which will work well for a guy who will need to have some lateral agility to shield the edge. It’s no mistake that just about every 3-4 team has worked him out…….so if he is so terrible, maybe you should send your scouting report to those teams, because every 3-4 team loves him, and by a lot of indications, the Jets are one of them, and so are the Patriots…..two teams with guys who know a little summit summit about putting a nice D together.
Writer/Assistant editor
Eternal optimist
New York Jets
Gang Green Nation
www.ganggreennation.com
Jets/Cubs/Marshall/ND
Penetration is not what we need from a DE, and not what I’m referring to. He can not occupy the double team which would be more of his responsibility as an end in the 3-4, specifically out 3-4. Yes 3-4 teams are working him out (I think saying they love him is your words, not theirs), cause he may be able to move outside, and may have some success there, but its still a risk, and certainly not the perfect fit you think he is.
We’ll see, but as he occupied double teams pretty much all year last year, not sure where you are getting the fact that he can’t occupy double teams. I exaggerated the ‘love’ aspect, buy your just making stuff up. Like me saying I don’t like Taylor Mays because he is not very fast rolls eyes
Writer/Assistant editor
Eternal optimist
New York Jets
Gang Green Nation
www.ganggreennation.com
Jets/Cubs/Marshall/ND
From a Cleveland blog, and you can visit just about anywhere to read about him getting doubled and sometimes even triple teamed the last two years.
CLEVELAND — The new name to watch as a contender for the Browns’ first draft choice is Penn State defensive lineman Jared Odrick.
“He’s a guy who’s gained significant traction on NFL draft boards and the Browns are right on him,” said a league source.
The Browns have worked out Odrick privately and also plan to bring him to Berea before the draft.
Odrick is 6-5 and weighs 304 pounds and possesses long arms and big hands. He played inside in Penn State’s four-man line but is considered a perfect end in the Browns’ 3-4 defense.
“You’re talking a defensive lineman that does not have any fat on him,” said the source. “He’s all muscle. He’s a tailor-made Patriots type of player. Richard Seymour-type. He’s perfect for what the Browns do on their defensive line.”
Writer/Assistant editor
Eternal optimist
New York Jets
Gang Green Nation
www.ganggreennation.com
Jets/Cubs/Marshall/ND
not sure why anyone disagrees with you when it comes to scouting prospects. You have to do the most scouting out of any member of GGN.
by chrebetsthebet on Apr 8, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I can be as wrong as the next guy, and always willing to admit it, but saying that someone has a weak lower body and can’t take on double teams, when all he has done throughout his career is take on double teams and find success puzzles me. Just look at what Bowman had to say when he was playing with Odrick, about how good a job Odrick does occupying blockers to let linebackers do their damage. Here is just one thing:
“Jared Odrick is a great player and a good defensive lineman,” Bowman said of Odrick.
“He keeps the guards and tackles off me and I couldn’t ask for a better guy. He does his job, and that’s what I, the other linebackers and the coaching staff like about him as a player.”
Writer/Assistant editor
Eternal optimist
New York Jets
Gang Green Nation
www.ganggreennation.com
Jets/Cubs/Marshall/ND
See below...
Not saying its 100%, but it calls into question, enough so that I wouldn’t risk the 29 on him
I don’t get the whole “can’t take a double-team” argument. When you’re a stud interior lineman you can’t go to the bathroom without one guy taking you high and another chopping your knees.
If you wanna say that another guy will have more of an impact, or that maybe you can get similar talent in the 2nd (Ive argued that myself), then I could buy it.
But you’re going to have a hard time convincing people that Odrick isn’t that good. Thats just not going to fly. Especially with the way he dominated the Senior Bowl.
yeah i would like him to give an explanation of why he keeps saying that
by chrebetsthebet on Apr 8, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
DE in Mangeinus/NE 3-4 is very different than in Rex Ryans...
just look at Ellis’ role/performance under each. Rex isn’t looking for a pass rush end, he wants them to occupy blocks to free up the LBs, S, or hoverers he’s sending.
As per Football Weekly 2010 draft guide...
and I quote…“Downside: Struggles to hold the point against the double team and is not stout for a 300-pounder. Has a tendency to play tall and can be washed. Lacks lower-body power and base strength to anchor…”
“the way we see it: Odrick would fit best as a three-technique in a four man front where he is slanting and stunting and allowed to use his quickness to penetrate. is athletic enough to kick outside as a base end in a 40 front, but does not play with a lot of power and could draw less interests from odd fronts seeking fenceposts”
Now this to me raises major issues, it basically saying he would be an awful end in the rex ryan 3-4, as fencepost pretty much is the definition of what he wants. Could they be wrong, of course, but I wouldn’t risk the 29th pick on him.
Are Pro football weekly even partly respectable? I mean their mock draft had Suh dropping to the 5th player selected, had Tebow going to the Eagles in the first, but I guess they did get one thing right, as they had us taking Odrick, on the other hand let’s look at Mike Mayock:
What I like about him is that he’ll fit in both schemes," Mayock said. “Four-three teams will look at him as a defensive tackle and 3-4 teams might say he’ll be a nose [tackle] or a defensive end. All 32 NFL teams look at him and say he can fit somewhere on our defensive line.”
If anyone saw him on NFL network talking about the Defensive line position, you will know just how high Mayock ranks Odrick, and it seems that a lot of people here trust Mike.
CBS analyze that enjoys a good reputation:
Strength: Brute strength makes him a tough assignment in pass protection for college linemen. Stacks his man and rips off in either direction to fill a hole. Pushes the pocket as a pass rusher, even when double-teamed. Plays tall but controls the line on almost every snap when straight-up or doubled.
Pass rush: Has good height, strength, agility and length to be a consistent penetrator. Bowled over many college linemen with his bull rush and seems to be in motion with the snap of the ball. Has some shiftiness and is able to penetrate with a swim or an inside-out move when blocked one-on-one. Uses his hands to discard linemen. Disrupts passing lanes with his long arms and big hands, keeping his eyes in the backfield. Can accelerate to the quarterback after initial contact but does not have elite quickness or change-of-direction ability to come back and make the sack or chase down plays in the backfield.
Writer/Assistant editor
Eternal optimist
New York Jets
Gang Green Nation
www.ganggreennation.com
Jets/Cubs/Marshall/ND
by David_Wyatt on Apr 10, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I dont think anyones draft rankings are that good per say...
especially any of the magazines, I mean most are written before the superbowl, and take no account for FA or the combine. I do how ever take great stock in their player anaylasis, as its more based on how they actually performed during the season.
Still I’ll give you another, fanball.com writes “weaknesses: Odrick is easily taken out of the game with a double team, and once he’s engaged in a good block. he often struggles to get free. Despite his athleticism, he’s fairly stiff….”
I agree, I think PFW's player analysis is good.
But I can’t go with you on Odrick not being able to play 3-4 DE. I think he fits the bill perfectly. And I think he would be a great fit on the Jets specifically. But I think a lot of good 3-tech DTs can play DE in a 3-4. And I think there’s a lot of good ones in this draft.
See below, Crack I think I might be being misunderstood here he may be fine as a 3-4 DE...
just not our 3-4. I’m really only talking from the Jets perspective not every 3-4 as they are a bit different.
Also David, the strengths you write about don't really address my concerns
or the criticism you have here. DE in the Rex Ryan 3-4 is not a true pass rush position. Our DE responsibility are to occupy and hold blocks more than penetrate, the penetration is usually the role of the LB,S, cb, or whoever the odd man is, if Odrick is losing that battle its going to disrupt the scheme. His style may fit fine in other 3-4’s at DE like NE, but I see him really as the opposite of what Rex would wan’t. I’m not saying he won’t be a good player, just not the right fir for us.
Totally disagree with you on this one. Collapsing the pocket and pushing the pocket are essential in any 3-4. Odrick can both stand his man up and cover 2 gaps and split doubles and get into the backfield and create havoc. He’s a solid player. And if he’s getting doubled on a consistent basis thats a good thing. He won’t get blown off of scrimmage and Jenkins will be walking the center torwards the ball carrier and our LBs will be flying there as well. Odirck can play.
Not when he can't handle the double...
listen, I’m not saying its black or white here, just saying I’ve read a lot that has put plenty of doubt in my mind that this is not the right system for him, at least enough to say he is very much a risky pick for the Jets at 29.
I have address your concerns because I have posted player analyse from sites/people more respected than fanball and PFW, that say he can not only hold up against the double team (which is what you are arguing against), but he can also generate pass rush against a double team. So while it’s not the primary objective of a 3-4 DE, if you can get a 3-4 DE that will occupy blockers, all while pushing them back and generating pressure, while also occupying blocks, your not taking that?? Rex Ryan sure is, and don’t get how you can use PFW’s analyse to say he is not right for our system, while at the same time, they have the Jets taking him, so either they are contradicting themselves or they have something seriously wrong there.
I can only go by what I saw, and backed up by the most respected draft guy in Mayock, and a highly respectable draft prospect analyze site in CBS. Both of whom have a high opinion of him in a 3-4…..also his team mates commend him for taking on blocks (see the quote above, primary job of a 3-4 end), and main Penn State sites always commented on his ability to take on double and triple teams. Add all that together, and I did address your concerns, but I certainly don’t understand them.
Writer/Assistant editor
Eternal optimist
New York Jets
Gang Green Nation
www.ganggreennation.com
Jets/Cubs/Marshall/ND
Yes and what Mayock says is related to pass rush, not occupying blocks...
and how he will fit most 3-4 not our 3-4 in particular. Getting past a double team, and occupying one are two completely different things. It’s not like I think Oderick is with out merit, its just theres two sides to every player/opinion.
Personally I don’t take any one specific opinion as gospel, I take them all into account, I respect PFW, and many others. My point is merely there is a far bigger concern, and far more risk with Oderick than is being talked about here. Yes I’m maybe playing up the negative side a bit, but they are very real concerns over a player that your expecting to simply step in and do a job he’s never actually done, and while some think he may be perfect for, others have pointed out that there may be some concerns.
There are no more concerns with Odrick, than with any other late first round prospect, it’s the same with all of them, Hughes, Sapp, Cody, Thomas, Tate, everyone is risk, because everyone is being asked to do a job they haven’t done which is compete in the NFL. If you saw Penn State games last year, then you would see that Odrick has the ability to take on double teams, and beat them or just occupy and let his linebackers go to work. You may be thinking I’m not giving enough to his negative side, but I definitely think you are not giving him enough credit, especially for this system, one that he fits better than any other 3-4 in the NFL, with his versatility on the defensive front, for a team that uses several different looks. I don’t understand it, but everyone to their own, your obviously not going to change your mind, and I’m certainly not.
Writer/Assistant editor
Eternal optimist
New York Jets
Gang Green Nation
www.ganggreennation.com
Jets/Cubs/Marshall/ND
I disagree I think he will be much more effective in the...
Mangenius/Bellicheat 3-4, where his pass rushing skills will be a huge asset. Look at Ellis (yes age is a factor) but how much more effective statistically he was under Mangini. Ideally though his perfect fir is as a three tackle in a 4-3 like he played in college, where he can stunt, really take advantage of his speed off the line, and get doubled far less.
And yes I agree many first rounders have concerns, I’m personally hoping for Iupati to drop, who I think has the least (if any). Otherwise my next hope is that we trade down where the depth at DE and OLB means we can get a pick and a similar (in quality) player as who is being mentioned here in the second.
That’s exactly what I said when I saw the results! You have to take Odrick here. Hughes is a tempting prospect but you know what you’re getting with Jared.
by nationalist88 on Apr 8, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
draft
odrick is it, he has a good head on his shoulders as well..however a exlent reciever at the slot position will make the offence two dimentional…
The only time I’d draft a receiver in the first round is if they are a sure thing, and will be dominant. Calvin Johnson and Larry FItzgerald are two in recent memory. You can find wide receivers later in the draft. Shipley has been brought up on several occasions here. Decker is a good pick who is a much better value the end of round 2. Desmond Briscoe is a kid I like if he fell into the 4th.
Tough call. Down to Odrick/Hughes. Seriously considered writing in for Cody.
Had to go Hughes. I think the combo of Hughes and a DE selected later will be more impactful than Odrick and an OLB selected later.
Basically im saying that, IMO, the drop off from Hughes to the next OLB is steeper than that of Odrick to the next DE. And all else equal, Hughes will have more of an effect on games than Odrick just by virtue of the position.
Bringing Cody in is interesting...
I would assume you’d put him at NT and move Jenkins over to end, that would be an incredible front, although I would be so worried as to how it would hold up the whole season.
I agree but...
on the other side I think we have a much bigger need at DE over OLB, add Taylor and that grows exponentially.
Not another Big10 BUST!
Jared Odrick could be the next Vernon Gholston, Taylor Mays definitely is. Odrick has had one too many injuries and Mays write up sounds eerily close to Gholston’s draft profile. NFL.com: “Vernon Gholston is a remarkable talent, but he’s only just begun realizing his vast potential.”
I’m sorry but the the Big10, soon to be Little12, has had one too many busts in the past few years. Odrick could be good but I’d rather go with Golden Tate at this spot.
Personally I’d trade up to #10 and draft Rolando McClain.
Trading up to #10 would take a ton, and if I were moving up that far, it certainly wouldn’t be for a ILB.
Writer/Assistant editor
Eternal optimist
New York Jets
Gang Green Nation
www.ganggreennation.com
Jets/Cubs/Marshall/ND
I would only move up that far for Suh or Berry. And picking a FS that high may even be a risky move.
by chrebetsthebet on Apr 8, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but there is a difference between a normal free safety and eric berry. I’d take berry in a heart beat.
by jets47 on Apr 8, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
touche.
Eric Berry is the truth but I don’t see him being available at 10. Little known fact, McClain is extremely versatile. Before Hightower went down for the season Saben planned on disguising McClain at ILB, OLB and SS. That said Rex would have a field day with McClain. He could play OLB and be Scott’s protege. Pace, Harris, Scott and McClain would be a filthy LB core, arguably league best. Not to mention they’d sound like a reputable law firm.
Too slow to play OLB, and he’s never done it. And Scott has another 3-4 years where he’ll be at a high level. No way we move all the way up to 10 to take a guy to either play out of position or ride the pine for 3 years. Top 10 picks play now, unless theyre QBs.
I really don’t see moving up as an option for anybody. Unless its only a couple draft slots and we don’t have to give up much. But im not selling out this draft for anybody, not even Suh. I’d much rather have the picks and load up on talent. Especially in the first 2-3 roounds this year.
So Write In is not an actual person???
and the home of the... JETS!!!
www.ganggreennation.com
I've tried to email Revis, but it just shuts down my computer.
Jared the Jet Odrick
and the home of the... JETS!!!
www.ganggreennation.com
I've tried to email Revis, but it just shuts down my computer.
Odrick is a poor pick, he's a three tackle...
he does not have a strong lower body and can not occupy blocks, he has a very good chance to be a complete flop as a 3-4 end, your all drinking the same kool aid. He will wind up being nothing more than a situational player in our D.
Tate is not better (or much better) than anyone who will fall to us in the second round, so is a waste of a pick in the first.
Mays may wind up being the best player on this list, of course he is the biggest risk.
I think Hughes is the best pick of the selections here.
Although the best pick for the Jets at #29 and should be on this list would be Mike Iupati, He simply would be the most quality pick at this point, a potential pro-bowler at G to replace Faneca with the ability to immediately back up 4 positions, that are all weak in the depth department. It’s a no brainer if available Iupati, may not be the flashy pick, but simply the best player available and a perfect fit for the Jets.
While you are entitled to your opinion you are in the vast minority here. Odrick may never make a pro bowl but he will be very effective in Rex’s system
And thats an opinion, Odrick can also be a complete flop in Rex’s system considering he is a three tackle (a position we don’t really use) that would need to be converted to DE a position he has never really played, and might not have the tools for. Might it be a successful conversion, of course, but it still a risk, much more than people are acknowledging here. Iupati is the best pick for the Jets at 29 if available.
Odrick is a beast, and has been widely scouted as an ideal 3-4 end because of size, strength and skills. If we wind up with this guy he can not only get penetration and make plays on the line, but he can tie up blockers so our LB’s can wreck heads. I’ve seen legit mocks where this guy is off the board in the top 12.
by nationalist88 on Apr 9, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
why do you keep saying that? what are you basing your opinion on??
by chrebetsthebet on Apr 8, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
The Jets are so confident in our O-line right now that they let TJ go and stuck LT in. There’s no way they’re taking an OL in the first round.
and the home of the... JETS!!!
www.ganggreennation.com
I've tried to email Revis, but it just shuts down my computer.
Really they worked out Iupati, I happen to think its the biggest need short of DE...
the difference is DE is deep, and we can still get a nice player round 2. Iupati if available is the best fit for the Jets, and I say they will definitely take him over Odrick
Hughes vs. Odrick
Since in a few days I have to make the #29 pick on a mock draft, I’d be interested in knowing what you think of the pros and cons of these players, since I hope to take whichever one of them is available. (Brandon Graham is my first choice, but I suspect he’ll be gone in the early 20’s)
From what I can tell from scouting reports, Hughes’ only possible weakness is run defense but he’s a beastly pass rusher. Odrick has mostly played tackle in the 4-3 but teams are considering using him as an end in the 3-4. If moving Jenkins to end is being considered, why couldn’t Odrick do the same? Reports say he takes double teams and still penetrates. How is he on run defense?
Officially contributing to worldwide confusion since 1997
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
