Osi Revisited
by Crackback on Mar 18, 2010 5:28 PM EDT
25 comments
A while back a rumor started that the Giants and Jets might work out a trade involving Kerri Rhodes and Osi Umenyiora. That was the first time I entertained the possibility of Osi being a Jet. Kerri is long gone now, but Osi is still unhappy. With Osi's continued grumblings over in Giantland, and our need for a quality pass rusher to take our defense to the next level, I thought it might be a good idea to talk about the possibility again.
I have to say that I find the prospect of Osi in our defense to be very intriguing. He would definitely command alot of attention as a premier edge rusher. But I worry about him switching from DE to OLB in the 3-4 scheme. I think I would be open to trading for him if we could get him for a mid to late round pick or some kind of package involving next year's picks.
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not sure he would translate well..i dont see him being let go...
management understands he is popping off because he is frustrated, recovering from an injury that takes 2 years to be 100%.
The more i think about it, I think Osi would be a better fit as an edge rushing OLB rather than a DE. It would allow him to take better advantage of his fantastic jump and speed to the QB. It also would allow him to run freely to ball more against the run, rather than trying to deal with a tackle.
u may be rite.. just dont see it going down..
giants and i would hate seeing him go from 7 to13 sacks when healthy
Osi for Leon, straight up.
Giants get an explosive RB to add to the passing game, as well as a phenomenal returner; while removing a headache that seems to grow by the day. It also allow them to look for a DE in the draft like u know theyre dying to do.
Jets get an edge rusher and can look for another big back to compliment Greene.
Its a dream. But its also a start.
Its kind of even. Both have questions regarding their injuries. Both are explosive when healthy.
Giants have a cancer that needs to be dealt with, while still have two very rushers on the roster. They can still look to add another in the mid-late rounds in this deep draft without drawing the ire of the fanbase. They gain a high quality punt/kick returner who’s a HR threat from anywhere on the field. They have the personnel to ease Leon back with having Bradshaw on the roster, who can handle being the 3rd down guy. They can either look to add a big back to replace Jacobs in and around the 4th round and get quality or they can roll the dice for one more year with Jacobs but let Bradshaw get more carries.
Jets get a quality rusher on the edge who has the ability to take over games when he’s on; and in Rex’s system he could wreak havoc; and are now freed up to get me my big back (Gerhart, Matthews, Dixon, Blount) to go with Greene to complete my vision of having a two-headed-monster attack, while LD can take over on passing downs.
Good thing you arent our GM. No way we give Leon up for a situational 3rd down pass rusher.
or
No way we gave up our stud defensive end and sack master for a situational 3rd down running back coming off a broken leg.
See how both sides can play that game?
Why do you even comment here? All you ever do is look to nitpick at CB’s posts because he called out your mock draft, which was, by all accounts, awful. It is starting to border on obsessed, every post he makes you just say …..
“boy! I’m glad your not the gm! Durrrr!”
Get over it.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
I post on others and give my own insight.
I just tend to disagree with him more and he posts a lot more than anyone else. Believe it or not I hold back a lot of what I have to say to most of the time.
Why this trade doesnt make sense.
For the Jets: Giving up the only scat back option and best third down, change of pace back. Losing the receiving threat/screen threat, and an exceptional special teams returner. Risking production from the most important position on the offense, the running back. (We are a rushing team) Greene has durability concerns AND LDT is a shadow of what he used to be. We have limited draft choices to simply go out and draft a Leon replacement.
Osi would really have to learn the ins and outs of a new position. Certainly, I won’t object that he knows how to rush the passer, but he wouldnt be an upgrade over Pace or Thomas when it came to playing the run, or dropping back into coverage. Therefore he is a 3rd down player much like how Joey Porter and Jason Taylor were in Miami. Not to mention Rex still at least publicly has faith in molding Gholston into a similar role. I don’t necessarily agree with that, but it looks like they could give him a chance. Further if Hughes and Graham are available at 29 I think we are taking one. No way would Osi have more value in this scenario than Leon.
For the Giants:
Leon would be replacing Ahmad Bradshaw as the smaller change of pace back. Bradshaw has been the Giants most productive back and they are looking for a primary running back – may be not the same build as Jacobs as that is rare, but a bigger back capable of handling a lot of the load. Leon doesnt fit that mold at all.
The Giants then have no replacement at DE. You could argue they will draft one, but the Giants defense has so many holes, they won’t find a quality player because they’ve opened up a new hole without filling one.
It’s a trade that benefits neither side.
I don't think you realize how easy it would be
to replace Washington. We drafted him in the 4th round, and we could replace him just that easily.There’s probably a dozen good scatbacks who come out of college every year. Out of every kind of football player, there are more smallish running backs who are homerun threats and who are great in space then any other kind of player.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
Whats the success rate on those late scat backs, and are they pro bowl caliber returners too? Also rookies tend to fumble, something I dont think Leon has issues with. Its risky to try and fill that position late. That 4th round pick could be used on something like a safety, wide receiver, a position of need.
Also not to sound disrespectful, I made 4 paragraphs worth of points and you picked out one. Your comment was vague, didnt have any support or suggestions to it.
Because you said how stupid it would be
for us to make that trade, I told you why I think we would.
My comment was vague?
My comment, in a nutshell.
“You overvalue Leon, Leon is a scat back, scat backs are the easiest position to fill in the NFL, we can easily replace Leon.”
How is that vague?
Darren Sproles, Jamaal Charles, Steve Slaton, MJD, Ahmad Bradshaw, LeSean McCoy, Kevin Faulk, Tim Hightower, Ray Rice, Jerome Harrison, Justin Forsett, Pierre Thomas, Kevin Smith, those are just the guys in the NFL. None of those guys were a first round pick, a handful of seconds, almost all of them 3rd or later, a number undrafted, and those are just the guys in the NFL that we know about. There are a lot of explosive players who are hard to bring down in space.
Leon averages 3-4 fumbles a year, so he isn’t fumble proof. As for the return game, I’m not worried about it at all. The Jets have had a history of very good return men long before Leon got here. He is very good, but Osi is a double digit sack guy at his best, and Leon is a 3rd down running back at his best. They both have had leg injuries they need to recover from, Osi is a year removed from his, while Leon hasn’t played since his.
For the Giants:
Leon would be replacing Ahmad Bradshaw as the smaller change of pace back. Bradshaw has been the Giants most productive back and they are looking for a primary running back – may be not the same build as Jacobs as that is rare, but a bigger back capable of handling a lot of the load. Leon doesnt fit that mold at all.
What does this have to do with anything? First you said it would be stupid for the Jets to make this trade, why are you listing the negatives here for the Giants? Who cares? We aren’t arguing if they would do it or not, we are arguing the fact that you called the trade stupid from the Jets point of view.
The Giants then have no replacement at DE.
Kiwanuka, Tuck, Canty? Not to mention, the Giants are known for being able to find defensive lineman out of nowhere. You don’t have to make things up to prove your point, especially if you are going to spend your time telling me my posts are too vague and I don’t support them well enough.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
+1
Leon is a fan favorite, but he is also just a good change of pace back. As explosive as he is, he is still replaceable, because there are speedy little backs all over the country, in high school, college, Canada, wherever.
I love the little man, but there are a lot of other football players who can do what he can do. Remember when LaMont Jordan left, and Jet fans everywhere were up in arms about it? A year or two later, did anybody give a rats ass?
by al's brick foundation on Mar 19, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course you can name a bunch of scat backs. But not every scat back taken in the draft pans out. For every one that is successful you can name several that are not. Then you go to the Giants and see Ahmad Bradshaw and people on this tread truly believe that the Giants value him despite having a very comparable back. Leon isn’t what they need. Again that is directed toward others but the fact remains its a poor. Fit. Your comment you said we could pick one up in round 4. Well who? thats where I was going with the vagueness. I dont want Brad Smith returning kickoffs fulltime, and I dont want J Co or Revis returning punts. There is something else we’d have to address.
Justin Tuck is a very good starter. Kiwanuka is situational and neither he not Canty are as good as a healthy Osi(in my opinion). So they downgrade in exchange for Leon Washington? Doesn’t make any sense for them.
Doesn’t make any sense for us. And if you want to just blast me on this fine. We lose on Leons services. If we do get rid of him we should at least get a 2nd round pick equivalent. CB wants Jerry Hughes. There is a solid chance we get Hughes. So all of a sudden we are supporting the idea for 5 OLB on the roster? And god knows how much money. This is a horrible thought on all levels. Outside of the arguments I made above, Leon brings a backfield receiving threat. I dont think it is wise to assume a scat back taken late will have the ability to receive like Leon either. It was not well thought out. It’s like those supporting the idea are thinking this is Madden. Leon is rated in the 80s, Osi is in the 80s. Giants on paper have an abundance (I disagree) of DE, need a RB. Leon is a RB and match made in heaven. I strongly disagree.
Obviously
getting Osi, would change the draft gameplan. We don’t live in a vacuum. Fine, I was vague, does the fact that every year there are 3DRB’s drafted in the 3rd or later that become gamebreaker types like Leon change anything?
All scat backs can catch. That’s why they are scatbacks. Because they are explosive with the ball, and in open field, but they aren’t every down backs. Madden, really? You are using Madden rankings to make points now?
Truthfully, I’m pretty sure you just have a thing for crackback. Everything else is window dressing. You still haven’t gotten over him calling out your doodoo mock draft.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
You are so right my mock draft sucked. At the time McCourty was a horrible pick. No one has given me a valid argument over each pick and don’t go there. As far as personal grudges, sorry to disappoint you.
The reason I brought up Madden is everyone is here seems to be living in a Madden-esque world around here. I haven’t bought Madden since ‘05 and there is a reason for that. I’m assuming thats approximately what they are rated, I surely can’t tell you what they are. Its like name recognition and hype are the driving influences behind the rationale on this site and not team needs.
+1
I love the idea I mean look at what that line would be Ellis,Jenkins,Osi that would be one of the most feared defensive line in the league right now.
no way
Osi is cool but just not for the Jets he’s going into his 8th or 9th season so to trade a pick for him would be stupid on the Jets side,really don’t know how smart he is, so how fast can he p/u the position of a 34 OLB.Even if it took him let’s say 6-9 games to really start to bring it, so big deal they get him for what 3-6 game’s not for a draft pick or Leon.Then the Giants don’t have the dumbest front office you know they haven’t won 3 SB since 1985 for nothing if you know what I mean.They won’t let Osi just walk out the door for a song & a dance,they will try to get as much as they can for him.A straight up trade Leon for Osi just won’t happen, neither side will do it.
He’s still got at least 5 good years in the tank. Why is trading him for a mid to late rounder stupid? Those guys are a crap shoot anyway. Whats so hard about picking up the OLB position when he’ll be rushing he QB for the most part anyway? And when he’s not rushing they’ll be expecting him to, so he’s still a decoy and will be dropping off into coverage where he’s not expected. I don’t think the transition is all that difficult. Why won’t either side do the Osi/Leon trade? I actually proposed an Osi trade with the Jets on the Giants blog and the first suggestion was for Leon.
thers more to it
you answered one question he’ll drop into coverage can he cover? and I’d rather have a high to mid 2nd rounder for Leon than Osi and with the draft being so deep with talent especially in the DE/OLB,DT,OL and RB the Jets can do better than him it’s nothing personal to Osi Ithink he has great talent but not a 34 OLB he’s gotta be able to cover.We as fans that would be a good trade but the front office won’t
by JETSFAN IN SC on Mar 20, 2010 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Cover who? Most OLBs aren’t going to be able to run downfield with most backs. All he has to do is drop into an area. And he won’t be dropping off most of the time. Most passing downs his ears will be pinned back. If you grab Osi, you free up the first and the 2nd. So, in a way you’re getting a pick for Osi in that you won’t have to draft for a spot that you likely would have otherwise. If we get Osi, now we don’t have to go with an edge rusher in the 1st or 2nd, and can use those picks for DE/DT/RB/OL.
Honestly, the more I think about it, the Osi for Leon trade makes so much sense it isn’t funny. In our system, Osi is 10+ sacks easy. And the Giants are probably keeping Jacobs, who will probably split carries with Bradshaw, and so Leon as a third down specialist back makes sense for them; and Leon can return punts and kicks for them as well, which they need. They can cut ties with a cancer, draft Navaro Bowman in the 2nd and everybody is happy. We can draft Matthews in the first and Shipley in the 2nd, and focus on DT/OL/DB in round 4 and beyond. Everybody wins.
How does it make sense for the Giants?
Why wouldnt they simply trade Osi for a pick rather than have another smallish scat back?
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