The Safety Debate
by John B on Mar 12, 2010 9:00 AM EST
45 comments
Let's talk about the eventful week at the safety position. Are the Jets better than they were a week ago?
Yes:
We all know Kerry Rhodes' faults. He was an underachiever in Rex Ryan's defense even as several of his teammates had standout years. He's also got an attitude. The coaching staff was so underwhelmed that it benched him. He's also soft against the run. The Jets added a comparable cover guy in Brodney Pool for a fraction of the cost. Pool is much more physical and stronger against the run. In addition, the Jets added a fourth round pick in a very talented Draft class.
No:
Kerry may have had a disappointing year, but he had a strong finish. There were great games against Carolina, Atlanta, and Cincinnati. There's no way the Jets would have beaten San Diego in the Playoffs without him having a stellar game. At his best, he's a game changing defender. Pool may be more physical, but that comes at a price. His style of play has resulted in four concussions since 2005. That makes him an enormous risk. One more bad hit to the head could mean the end of his career.
The Verdict:
I know this probably won't be popular in these parts, but you'll have a tough time convincing me the Jets are better in the free safety position now than they were a week ago. When Kerry is playing his best ball, there aren't many safeties better. Kerry's also never missed a game due to injury. Pool is a huge risk.
I know Rhodes comes off as an egotistical jerk. What team has perfect harmony, though? I also really liked the Pool signing. It was a low cost move that could pay huge dividends. Still, asking him to navagate an entire season with his style of play seems like a lot. This team could probably use more insurance at the position.
What do you think?
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I’m usually not a big fan of signing players off struggling teams, but considering that his best games came against teams that were struggling all season (Carolina, Atlanta) a team that was insanely up and down (Cincinnati) it’s not quiet impressive.
I think the main thing is the hope that this isn’t another Vilma situation.
The Lemieux Curse lives on, will the Islanders reach 2013?
Kerry wasn’t playing inspired football here. Thats apparent from the fact that he couldn’t keep his starting job all season. I honeslty think he is a perennial probowl caliber saftey. But a Probowl talent shouldn’t get himself benched for two games either. He will play inspired football with his new team. Arizona is a desert it’s not NY. All the distractions he gave himself here will be gone (movies, modeling, ect) and he will at least play to prove the Jets as fools in this situation. And hopefully be focused from that point on.
Reguardless, I would still rather another saftey who plays the run hard and has shown that he is trying to improve his game rather then filling his life with silly distractions. Arizona can have Rhodes. I will take Pool and the other safties playing behind the best corner tandem in the NFL anyday. And Rhodes can sit in that dusty heat and stew as he watches Pool get fitted for a ring.
If it was just Pool vs. Rhodes
I’d take Rhodes every time.
But with that 4th round pick we got, and the contract we were able to get Pool for, I’m happy with where we’re at.
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
I’d rather have a Kerry Rhodes that put in time and made efforts to get better but that’s not what we had. I’m happy with the trade and would rather have Pool, a player who will put in the time and mold to the defense over Rhodes. Giving 80% in the NFL, making excuses, and not meeting with coaches or watching extra film just doesn’t cut it, rather have a hard worker than wasted talent.
I don’t think this is an answerable question at this point. There’s just too many “ifs” involved. Pool can have another concussion and Rhodes can go out there and re-dedicate himself to becoming a great football player. On the other hand, Pool might stay healthy and continue to improve, while Rhodes goes out to Arizona and continues to slide while also being a cancer in the locker room. They also can both have either the best case or worst case scenario. I think it comes down to whether you have faith in the decision makers of your team, and since I think the GM knows what he’s doing, I expect good things to happen with most moves that he makes. Even if the worst case scenario does develop here, you have to get the impression that Tannenbaum really thought that he had to get Rhodes off of this team for the sake of team chemistry.
Dumped Edgar Renteria and adopted Buster Posey. Biggest upgrade since George Jefferson moved up to a deluxe apartment on the east side!
There should be a F and U WebBard
Bonds... hit is high.... He hits it DEEEEEEEP..... OUTTA HERE BONDS STANDS ALONE- Duane Kuiper on 756
by Newcomb29(EDGE) on Mar 12, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
are we better at safety?
Maybe / maybe not. Are we better as a team, most likely. First of all and I do not have the stats in front of me yes he missed a handful of games last year but if i remember correctly he only missed one in the 2 previous years. I am sure the powers that be will swoop in here within a few minutes to give the actual numbers.
Secondly as much of a Rhodes fan as I was, at what cost do we have to motivate the guy. Yes he played well at the end of the year but after being benched. To me he lost his fire and that would always be a question with me. Could we not go through this again this upcoming year? With his parting shots, I would think there was another soap opera looming on the horizon.
Third, bringing in someone hungry in my opinion means a much more cohesive unit playing as one. As hokey as that may sound I for one think it is important.
And finally that pick, my God I am salivating at the thought of bringing in Rolle with that . So for me I vote yes we are (a better team)
I'd perfer to have Rhodes at safety
And I do… thanks guys.
Remember no matter where you go in life...there you are!
enjoy him. Just don’t watch any Jets game film from last year if you’re going to continue to be happy about having him. By the way, you’re going to stink next year.
Dumped Edgar Renteria and adopted Buster Posey. Biggest upgrade since George Jefferson moved up to a deluxe apartment on the east side!
Any chance you can come back 9 months from now
and tell us what you think then? should be interesting.
+100
I’d be interested to see how the season turns out for both teams.
I’m just not very high on Pool at all. I really wanted Atogwe. But I have to give the guy a chance if the staff picked him.
It just seems to me like the team isn’t really trying to build upon what we had last season. Everything I’ve seen so far looks like cost cutting.
Well we shall see
We can probably judge Pool’s 2010 season compared to Rhodes 2009 season for us. That is of course Pool doesn’t get hurt.
As far as Atogwe goes, we will never know I guess. I was leaning towards him as well, but I get the impression I am more ok with how things transpired than you are. Yes there is a measure of cost cutting but hopefully what TPTB see is that the difference in talent between Pool and Atogwe isn’t nearly as much as the difference in price.
I think every move Mike T has made so far
has been the right move. I don’t agree with Feely. That’s it. Cutting Jones, +1, Rhodes, +1, Cromartie, +1, I think every move has been the right move. Bringing in any league average safety would have been an upgrade over Rhodes. He didn’t want to be here, and he wasn’t trying. Not to mention Pool was statistically better then Rhodes was, so we don’t have to assume what I assume, that a worse safety would be better for us because he would actually play with his heart in the game. This guy is an upgrade over Rhodes. He played better for the Browns then Rhodes played for the best defense in the NFL.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
Most fans are willing to give him a go, I think that he will become a fan favourite here if he can stay healthy. He does and says all the right things, he plays the game like it is supposed to be played. He has athletic gifts, but has never struck me as the kind of guy that needs the spotlight to be on him. That’s why I think he will fit in here. Some moves I didn’t like at the time, but looking at the context now, I agree with nrmax88, they have all been in the best interests of the Jets.
As far as Kerry Rhodes goes, he’s just another player in the NFL for me now, if he does well that’s fine, I don’t really care, the only thing that matters is the success the Jets and Brodney Pool have.
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I think so
we got rid of one of the softest hitting safeties in the NLF plus a guy who is more focused on hollywood than playing football.Plus he got more picks because of Kerry and can always draft a safety in the draft
I Believe in 2010
by Jadden Hopkins on Mar 12, 2010 10:39 AM EST reply actions
At the end of this season good or bad I will be back and we can have a follow up chat.
Remember no matter where you go in life...there you are!
I think it was a great move by MT. Rhodes was not going to get any better in Rex’s system because for some reason he felt betrayed. I wont ever understand Rhodes, but its best he moves on and proves himself somewhere else. Pool is a solid player with health question marks. I suggested a few weeks ago trying to draft someeone who does have good range at the position and isnt afraid to be physical. Rex can have some time to develop him and give us an insurance policy. This is a one year deal, so like Cromartie, we could be out both of these guys for next season. I hope we don’t spend too many of our picks for next year this draft because we may have some holes.
I think you all know what I’m going to say. Kerry is a good player to say otherwise would be irresponsible, but he’s not a great player, and by the players that came out mid-season saying they were not happy with him, to his ego and lack of production. You will have a very hard time convincing me that with the risk of injuries and all, Brodney Pool and a 4th round pick is not as good. Brodney is comparable in coverage, and more physical against the run. If we draft right with that 4th round pick, then we are laughing all the way. Kerry was not a team guy, he can reach pro bowl after pro bowl in Arizona, but if they don’t win anything, it doesn’t matter. Getting him out of town, and bringing in a good team guy, a good guy in general, who’s more physical and plays the run. In my opinion we are much better off than a week ago, team harmony is an important factor.
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here's to hoping tannenbaum trades up
taylor mays, please
I don’t think that makes any sense in this years draft, you don’t trade up and lose picks in a draft as deep as this, if anything you move down and collect more. Deepest class since 83, Tannanbaum would be an idiot to trade up, especially for an enigma like Taylor Mays.
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Haha, I feel better now we have Brodney, so if Rex thinks he can coach him up and he is sitting there at 29, by all means go ahead and take him. However moving up for him?? that would be a terrible decision. Let’s stack as many picks as possible this year.
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I don’t have a man crush on Tate, I hardly ever talk about the little big man lol Shipley on the other hand….
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Hate to say it DW, but i was watching more film on Mays last nite and im convinced he could be a monster at SS, especially here. Seems like they played him 20 yards deep alot at USC. But I’d be up for moving up into the early 20s for him, provided it doesn’t cost too much. No way he makes it all the way to 29 though.
Sorry Crack, respect your opinion man, but watched absolutely tons on Mays, and still can’t convince me the guy can cover. Moving up is idiotic IMO.
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Again not opposed to taking him if he is there, but no way no how do you use picks to move up for such a an enigma. You just don’t do that this year, next year go ahead, this year..no thanks.
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I would give up 29 and maybe a pick from next year to move up to… say 22 if Rex thought he could make him a monster. He seems open to coaching, and we have some of the best in the biz as far as DB coaches go. I think our system would allow him to play to his strength and hide his weaknesses, and he would be a fantastic blitzer.
But i agree with you as far as pure coverage goes. He’s not great in space, and he seems stiff when trying to maneuver laterally. But he’s great in all other aspects. He seems real comfortable in and around the box. I think FS is the wrong position for him, especially so far off the ball the way he was at USC. Get him up near the box, limit his coverage area, and let him unleash his aggression and he can be something special.
If Rex takes him, then will support it, personally speaking as far as winning a Championship in 2010. I think moving up to get someone like Brandon Graham makes more sense as long as we use next years picks. If not I would rather Jerry Hughes, those two guys make us more dangerous next year than Taylor Mays in my opinion.
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Tannenbaum talked up newly-signed S Brodney Pool, claiming “it’s more significant a signing than people realize.” Asked about Pool’s concussion problems, he said they brought in a specialist to examine Pool and feel “comfortable with his medical situation.”
I realize the significance Mike ;-)
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I realize the significance
The Jets are trying to save money.
Good point
a high spending team who makes a big splash every year, and does everything it can to jam the salary cap to the brim every year is trying to save money in an uncapped year.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
Funny how some people
look for, almost hope for the negative, so they can cry and act all insulted, like the team let them down or something. I find it entertaining.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
You really don't have to be like that
Or maybe you do, I don’t know, or care. Try not projecting things onto other people for a change.
I’m not insulted or let down. If you bother to read any of my other comments I say I trust this staff. The Jets never went to a superbowl since I’ve been alive and the only thing I’ve ever genuinely incessantly complained about was drafting and retaining Vernon Gholston.
Mike T said it himself when he sent Rhodes off. He can sign three or four players in the stead of Rhodes. Like it or not that’s saving money, straight from the mouth of the boss. The Jets are saving money buy buying low in promising veteran talent like Pool and Cromartie. Smart, especially under a defensive guru like Rex. Get coachable guys that earn the salary they command. But it’s not always in line with their style.
It has nothing to do with the uncapped year. If anything we’ll never know what the Jets would do in an uncapped year because of the final 8 restrictions. Part of the reason the Jets are such an exciting team is because your first post, in spite of it’s mocking tone, was spot on. They WILL spend and move up, shell out big cash and occasionally take risks. I agree with you 100%, they are a big splash team.
But if I’m completely wrong, where are the big moves you’re referencing that we’ve come to expect? Was getting Cromartie and a 4th, and losing Rhodes and Jones it? No restrictions on released players. Nothing preventing them from paying TJ, or already getting a deal with Tony Richardson done. Or a free safety less injury prone that commanded a higher salary and was more known to deliver.
No matter what, I’ll enjoy this season. I always do. Even the 4-12 ones. I am a self admitted pessimist, that may be the reason I opted for Gang Green coming to the meadowlands as a youngster. But I’m not any of the things you imply. And I find you entertaining. And the bitter half-smart accusations you make while trolling sports discussion board comments too. It’s adorable.
That's different.
It was a well thought out response, that I agree with, on most counts. That’s different then just saying you don’t like the signing and it was only to save money. This guy was more productive then Rhodes was last year, in a horrible defense, so obviously it wasn’t just about money. Your post made it sound as if they are making the team worse in favor of saving money.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
Just the way you read it
Most people seem to think Pool is a slight downgrade. I’m not really one of those people. Granted, it’s no secret I really wanted Atogwe, but I’d rather have a promising free safety with a history of concussing than a mediocre safety that commands a 6 and a half million dollar salary. And I think we can agree that’s really what he had become in NY, a mediocre player.
I apologize for the cantankerous tone to my reply. But I expect respectful disagreements no matter what the environment, or what I said last week.
As long as that fourth rounder turns into
MyRon Rolle or Dexter McCluster
Bonds... hit is high.... He hits it DEEEEEEEP..... OUTTA HERE BONDS STANDS ALONE- Duane Kuiper on 756
by Newcomb29(EDGE) on Mar 12, 2010 6:14 PM EST reply actions
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