Kerry Rhodes: Stay or Go?
by John B on Feb 5, 2010 9:00 AM EST
32 comments
It was supposed to be a breakout year for Kerry Rhodes. More than one pundit talked about the potential for Kerry to play the role Ed Reed played for Baltimore under Rex Ryan. He was supposed to return to the Pro Bowl caliber form he showed in 2006 and 2007 and become one of the top five safeties in the game. It didn't happen. There were some outstanding performances near the end of the year. Kerry had terrific games against Carolina, Atlanta, Cincinnati, and San Diego. Even his most ardent supporter couldn't contest it was an uneven and disappointing year. Nobody could have predicted a midseason benching.
Rhodes was one of the most vocal Jets during the season. He often failed to back up his play. How many times did he shy away from contact when playing the run? He had no sacks in the regular season. He had 3 interceptions. A pair came against Carolina. That left him a single pick in the remaining 15 games. He didn't force any fumbles in the regular season. The safety position is a playmaking position in this defense. Rhodes didn't make too many. We've seen his capabilities. The only reason he didn't make the Pro Bowl in those 2006 and 2007 campaigns was John Lynch's name recognition. There was arguably no greater underachiever on the league's top defense than Rhodes.
Rex was clearly disappointed enough with Kerry to bench him. I remember Bob Papa and Matt Millen describing a conversation they had with Rex during the Thursday night game against the Bills in Toronto. When discussing the safety position, Ryan said he'd rather have a less talented overachiever than a more talented underachiever. That seemed to be a direct comparison of Eric Smith and Kerry.
This is probably going to be one of the most debated issues of the offseason. I struggle to see how the Jets can trade Rhodes. His value isn't terribly high at this point. We're probably talking about a midround pick at best. People tend to overvalue Draft picks. What are the odds the Jets find a player as good as Rhodes. Think back to the Jonathan Vilma trade. The Jets got a pick that turned into Dwight Lowery. Is Lowery a nice player? Sure. Would anybody seriously consider taking him over Vilma if given the choice? I don't think so. It's very difficult to find impact players late in the Draft. Trading a starting caliber player isn't worth it.
That brings us to the other problem. It would create a hole. The Jets would need to find a new starting safety. I wouldn't feel comfortable with Eric Smith starting for 16 games. Smith is an NFL caliber player. He found a niche working underneath and as a blitzer. I don't think he has the athleticism or the range to succeed in a starting role, though. The Jets are limited in what they can do this offseason. Why open up a hole?
I will make an exception. If the Jets can flip Rhodes and fill a hole with a proven player, I'm all for it. I mean make a trade to add a legitimate pass rusher or a top flight corner. I'm not sure how practical that kind of hope is, though.
There is no doubt Kerry's play improved after the benching, and he came a lot closer to becoming the impact player many expected. Unless they can add something to really improve the team in an area of weakness, it's worth riding this out and seeing whether he can return to the kind of form he showed during that 2006-2007 run.
I vote stay.
How do you vote?
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He stays
You don’t trade a star pass rusher or a solid cover corner for an underperforming safety, no team in the world is stupid enough to go for that, and there’s no other reason to let him go.
I didn't even read the story
And it’s not that I don’t respect you or like your writing style.
I just read the headline, and instantly felt apathy towards him either staying or going.
I don’t really care. I’m indifferent. Who’s out there that’s better? I feel like there’s a lot of options that aren’t Kerry Rhodes, but don’t give us anything better than Kerry Rhodes. But I guess there’s a lot of options that could be worse…..
So, I guess I say keep him.
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
We won’t find anyone better than Kerry to fill that roll for the value we will get for him. I think my opinion is quite simple, Kerry offers more value to the Jets than he does trading him. We don’t have the in house player, and drafting one would defeat the object, there are no safeties anyway, I would rather keep Rhodes who really came on after the benching, than trade him for a mid round selection and have to use our first or second round to draft one.
He is a young guy, maybe he found it harder to adapt to the system than many thought, give him 2010 to show us the real Kerry Rhodes.
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I think maybe Rex was kind of just like,
“Alright Kerry, now you go out there and be Ed Reed.” As far as I can tell Rex just let Ed Reed sit back there in center field and let his natural game take over. Kerry doesn’t have the kind of natural game that Ed Reed does and probably needs more structure and more of a defined role than “just go out there and KILLLLLLL! slaps butt hard”
Think about it, if you had to describe the way he was playing for the first 3/4ths of the season with a single word, would any of you disagree with “hesitant”? That shows me that he just wasn’t really prepared and/or sure of what he was supposed to be doing.
Keep Him
I believe he should have a breakout year from being in Ryan system for over a year. However, he was out of place quite a few times. The play when Peyton Manning threw to Austin Collie over the middle. I know K.R. was suppose to help Revis who was letting Reggie Wayne go deep, but he committed too much to help Wayne who was not getting the ball. If he did not over commit, he could have intercepted or broke up that pass. Am I asking too much? I think not look at that play. Then the play when Dallas Clark caught the touchdown. He was too deep in the end zone. Even though he is a real good tackler, I did see quite a few times when he shy away from contact.
Get rid of him
he’s a pretty boy only good against the run, not good at coverage, get rid of him!
by LostOnRevisIsland24 on Feb 5, 2010 10:15 AM EST reply actions
Pretty sure he's better in coverage
than in run support… hasn’t that been the word on him?
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
Dump him.
All he is now is a cover guy. He’s always late on arrival and he never makes an impact play. Even the one time he does make a play (San Diego) and causes a fumble, he was more concerned about thumping his chest than recovering the ball.
You can convert a corner to do what he does (cover and shy away from contact). Also, he’s a malcontent. After the season the the GM and head coach said they wanted him back and he balked at being here. He wants to be coddled and treated like a star, but he doesn’t want to be held accountable to play like a star. With a young team, just now galvinizing into what could be something special, we just don’t need a cancer in the lockerroom. Especially a cancer whose best buddy is Braylon Edwards, another potential malcontent/cancer. We don’t need the two of them reinforcing each other’s negativity and undermining the team’s development.
If the only reason to keep him around is potential, then I say trade him for a third rounder and draft Mays with the 29th pick. Mays has a more of an upside than Rhodes, and his downside is about equal.
Give Rhodes the boot.
by Crackback on Feb 5, 2010 11:45 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Sorry Crack but that last comment is horrendous, Mays has the same upside but his downside s not even close to Rhodes it’s an empire state building below and worse than that, his current ability is nowhere close to where Rhodes is. Even when Rhodes was at his worst this year, he was still a serviceable player, trading Kerry for a 3rd rounder and then replacing him with a player with ton of problems on the college level let alone the NFL one, who won’t contribute half as much off the bat with the first overall pick that we have, and one of only two in the first four rounds just doesn’t make sense.
Mays + a 3rd rounder or Rhodes + a 1st??
Come on that’s not even a proposal that is worth considering because it’s beyond the extreme of one sided. If we did that I would think that Mike Tannenbaum should be committed to the closest insane asylum.
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What I should probably add to that, is why create another problem, trading Rhodes just gives us another hole to fill on the D, I’d rather we concentrate on patching the other problems, than creating more.
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On paper you’re probably right. Rhodes plus a 1st looks better. But what happens if after three games Rhodes is still giving us more of the same? He plays about average, doesnt study film, and under-performs. Coaches are frustrated, teammates are frustrated, he’s setting a bad example for younger players. Rex will have to bench him again to try to wake him up. Then you know he’ll demand a trade and blow up the locker-room. And if his buddy Braylon isnt jiving with Sanchez they will both be playing off each other, creating a tornado of negativity in the lockerroom.
At least with Mays, his deficiencies will be masked somewhat by playing alongside Revis and Rex’s blitzing schemes. And maybe he can be used primarily as a blitzer (like Dig) until his coverage improves. He’d probably be a nasty blitzer (4.2 230 is tough to pick up and he loves to punish).
Theres just too much negativity out of Rhodes, not enough playmaking, and he doesn’t want to be here.
I wouldn’t say all that about Rhodes, this season was a rollercoaster, but it’s not like it happens every year, he wasn’t exactly causing problems during the 4-12 campaign. Can’t be too harsh on him, he was frustrated by his lack of production. A few bad comments during one emotional season shouldn’t be enough to get you traded in favour of a player like Mays, especially as reports came out that he was being extremely lazy at the Senior Bowl, is that a good attitude to have??? with just about every NFL scout there. Kerry had some problems last season for sure, but he wasn’t a bad player, at his worst he was average, at his best we know he can be very good. Can we not give him another year in this system? Worst case scenario, he starts talking out after not performing, we trade him and pick up a 2011 pick, let Smith finish the season as the starter (confident he will produce just as much as Mays would be able to in 2010) and then look to 2011…best case scenario, Rhodes continues with his late season form, makes plays from day one, and we live happily ever after, and we come away with a 2009 first rounder in a need of position who makes us just that much better…..
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See, I think,
that if you think we can survive with Eric Smith (the guy who hits hard, brings nothing else to a football team), but you think we can’t survive with Mays, that Taylor Mays must have killed your dog or something. Eric Smith can’t defend one on one. Eric Smith can’t real QB’s when he is in his deep zone. Eric Smith can’t run for shit. Eric Smith doesn’t have the size, or strength that Mays doesn’t but because of Rex’s defense, he did fine last year. Just as Mays would do. Under Mangina, Mays would probably suck, but not under Rex.
I also think we are getting a bit over the top with things like “I am eternally thankful that Mays will probably be off the board before 29”, and whatnot. I mean, I don’t care for Jared Odrick or Golden Tate, but to say I would be eternally thankful if we don’t pick them? A little ridiculous, and a tad bit dramatic.
If we can’t pick Mays because of his risk, then we can scratch off Ricky Sapp, we can say no to Brandon Graham, forget about Golden Tate, and screw Kyle Wilson. Because Sapp is a pass rushing OLB, there is no reason to believe he can cover, or stop the run. Graham, forget him, we can’t take him because he is a 4-3 DE and we will need to move him to 3-4 OLB, just like Gholston, and since Gholston busted, every player who makes the transition from DE to OLB will also bust. These are all ridiculous assumptions. The fact is, Taylor Mays is going to be a combine freak who also has started for 4 years at USC, the last 3 winning first team all american honors, despite all of his enormous flaws (like according to a lot of you, being the worst cover guy in the history of football, and the stupidest man in the universe). He is fast, he hits the fuck out of people, and his has massive upside. There is no doubt in my mind Rex Ryan will make him a stud.
It all depends on the situation Mays ends up in, but if he ends in a decent to good situation my guess is that he is unarguably the better player then Rhodes is about 18 months from now.
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I’m just going to take your first paragraph, swich a few things and add a key addition:
Taaylor Mays can’t defend one on one. Taylor Mays can’t real QB’s when he is in his deep zone. Taylor Mays can’t run for shit in the right direction. Eric Smith won’t cost us a first round I will give you the size and strength though
If I’m being over dramatic about Mays, you are being ridiculously over dramatic about Rhodes. Your creating problems where there is no problem, that’s the only ridiculous thing here. You want to create another hole, it’s absoltuely stupid. I can’t get too bothered about it though because Mike T is a clever guy, he’s not an idiot.
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That comes across a bit like I’m calling you an idiot, which I’m not. Just saying your logic makes 0%. Wanting to trade a player for a worse player which will also erase our first selection. That’s not logical.
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If people love Mays size/strength and speed so much, why are people not talking about Chad Jones from LSU?? he is 6’3 232, hits as hard as Mays, has better coverage skills than Mays, doesn’t have his straight line speed, but he takes much better angles to the ball, he wraps up tacklers better than Mays, and he plays the run as well as Mays.
I guarantee yo if you increase Jones 40 time by about 0.7-.0.9 seconds and put him with USC and Mays with LSU, there is no contest who is the better safety. A few websites run with that exact same idea.
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0.7-0.9 seconds is an eternity in 40 time. Chris Johnson runs a 4.2. Most linemen run around a 5.0. Deion ran a 4.2. Barry Sanders ran a 4.2.
I don’t know anything about Jones, but i’m guessing he doesn’t run anywhere near a 4.2. Mays supposedly runs a 4.2. Just can’t teach that kinda speed. Couple that with his size, and sprinkle in the fact that he loves to knock teeth out. My guess is Mays’ stock will rise after the combine after his 40 time is clocked officially. I hope he stays lazy, smokes pot and does what ever else he can do to slip down to 29 so we can take him.
They said Randy Moss ran bad routes, hated going across the middle, and was possibly a bad apple. And everybody passed. But you just can’t teach that size and speed.
I have seen Mays play a lot this year, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that 4.2 is a bit off, he doesn’t look like he has 4.2 speed on the field, he looks more at the 4.3 type mark. Chad Jones was clocked at 4.45, has the same size, similar strength, hits people as hard, and plays 100x better coverage, mainly thanks to the time he spent as a corner. You guys seem to be boarding the USC produced Mays hype train when there is a player like Jones probably better than Mays now slipping to the bottom of the second round because he runs the 40 time a little slower. It’s absurd. A player can go 20 odd places above another safety just because he can run quicker by a second in shorts.
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I also find it a little strange that people here are putting so much stock in combine ‘short’ numbers after berating Gholston and Jets management for falling in love with combine numbers…..that’s a head scratcher.
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I don’t know Dave. I think the Golden Dome might be skewing your otherwise good judgment when it comes to this guy. I read from you and others that Mays runs a 4.2. In the clips you posted he looks like he can fly. Put his physical attributes under the tutelidge of the best defensive mind in the game, mentored by Revis and Leonard, ridden by Scott and Harris, and you have to salivate at the possibilities.
I generally don’t care much about combine numbers. But any 40 time at/below 4.3 gets my attention. And he’s 230 lbs and he loves ti hit, and he can be playing for Rex!!! The havoc he could create… The fear he could instill…
Yes, I almost get a hard on thinking about having our very own Ronnie Lott patrolling the secondary along side the best cover corner thats ever played.
Ronnie Lott??? I’m not sure I’m going to be able to continue this conversation, because it’s going off the reservation, Lott was 500x more polished coming out of USC than Mays is, that’s like comparing Revis to Lowery.
4.2 is what he is rumoured to run, I have never seen him run it, and he doesn’t look that fast on the field. Why put his physical attributes and not Chad Jones identical ones with just a little less speed but a guy who knows where to run. You seen to be holding Mays to one standard and others to another. Why are you not hyping up Jones? give me a good reason, he is 6’3, 230, has better cover skills, plays like a linebacker at the line, tackles a lot better, has a better football IQ……
So you rave about Mays physical attributes in the Rex system, but neither of you have mentioned Jones in the any of the conversations we have, and he has nearly exactly the same physical attributes, he just doesn’t run as fast in shorts, although he actually knows where to run on the field. Neither of you have mentioned him in Rex’s system.
Don’t be ridiculous and bring the ND/USC thing into it, because USC is not even a flick on the radar in comparison to Michigan in terms of rivalry, and I think I have been quite complimentary to Warren and Graham lately. I’m not sure if Mays is dating your daughter/sister, but for as much as I may be being a little unfair on Mays, it needs to be said because you two are hyping him to the extreme…Ronnie Lott……shakes head
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Your points are strikingly similar to Gholston in 2008 and 2009….first it was the draft, you can’t teach those physical combinations of speed and strength for a linebacker the other football attributes can be taught…..then in 2009 it was, put him in Rex’s system and watch him work, Rex said it himself, if he can’t do it for me, he can’t do it for anyone. I was on that Gholston hype train, and I learnt my lesson as a result.
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This is starting to seem like I’m completely writing Mays off which I’m not, wish him the best of luck, just don’t think we are in the right position to be the team that trys to get him to reach his potential. I’m coming across as being so down on him to try and keep some perspective. I see where you are both coming from with the ‘potential’ and I hope you can see where I’m coming from with all the disadvantages and things he needs to improve on which were highlighted in the videos I posted, just comes back to that pesky thing…logic. It’s not logical for the Jets to draft him.
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I’m not sure how formatting will look if I reply to one of the posts above, but I’d definitely be interested in Chad Jones. Every time I watched LSU play, he was in the middle of big plays. I also think his speed is sold a bit short. He ran down Darren McFadden from behind in a college game.
I’d definitely take him over Mays. Mays is like the DHB of defensive backs to me. He’s got great straight line speed but no grasp of the technical aspects of the game or instincts. He’s fine as a developmental pick, but do you really want to use your first round pick on a project?
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Just did a little research on Jones. Me likes him a lot too. I want a hitter. An intimidator. Someone that will make WRs pull up short or take their eye off the ball.
Chad Jones is one hell of a player. He definitely has some game speed, as an LSU baseball fan myself, I saw him play on the diamond more than I did the football field, but what I did see from him left me impressed every single time. He hits, he covers, he makes plays.
I was just talking to a Jets fan who presented the simplest of ideas that I have idiotically ignored, are we in a good position to move down in the draft? There are a ton of players that fit our needs who are early 2nd round selections (likely) people like Chad Jones, Perrish Cox, maybe Kyle Wilson. Would that be a good way to get our guy and pick up selections?
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Interesting idea for sure.
If you can trade down and have a couple of 2nd/3rd round picks you could probably try and go after a Kyle Wilson and a Demaryus Thomas, who I keep getting higher on the more I read about him. Extreme deep threat, good size, coming from a primarily running bases attack at GT. Dude can fly, dude can jump, and supposedly is a great blocker. I think he can be used like Nate Washington and Mike Wallace were used for Pittsburgh early in their careers, as a straight deep threat until he develops more. Sounds like he has great work ethic and desire to be great also.
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I agree with you on Thomas, he is going to be so under rated coming out of that run first, run second, pass third type offence at GT. In my opinion he could have as much talent as Dez Bryant, just needs to get in a pro style and work on his routes. He has to be a good blocker coming from GT as a wide receiver. Very exciting guy, and a 2nd rounder at that. If we came out of this draft with either Perrish Cox/Kyle Wilson and Thomas, I would be delighted, and pat Mike T on the back for a job well done.
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