#5 : Your "Needs" and "Situations" Debate.
by Max Strauss on Feb 28, 2010 11:28 AM EST
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Disclaimer: You might want to skip this paragraph since is a long article that invested much of my time in the article below. I hope it's valued and debated. I hope you read it all. If you don't please tell me, and I'll keep them shorter. So, I'm happy I'm it's a new week, and so I cranked this out. I definitely regret not making an account on GGN sooner. If you are debating whether or not to make an account, go ahead and do it already. I'm sure the GGN staff love receiving feedback. As a mini-blogger, I love logging on and seeing new comments on the threads, it makes me feel I brought up good points in your debates.
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And now, a way to introduce you to the situation. Around this time of year, every team evaluates their weaknesses and tries to get rid of them and turn them into the future strengths during free agency, the draft, trades, and other ways. Many Jets fans feel they know what the biggest needs are for the Jets and knows how they should precisely handle the situation this offseason. It's one of the biggest debates I've had--with others and myself. I don't know how I would handle the situation.
I am going to put these in no particular order, so I am not stuck changing the order after I read your responses.
"Past, Present, Future Looks"
QB == The Jets starting quarterback is Mark Sanchez. The Jets also have Kellen Clemens, Erik Ainge, and Kevin O'Connell. Some experts and fans have argued that the Jets need a mentor quarterback. Fans want someone with years of experience under his belt who can help teach Sanchez how to make smarter decisions on the field. This could help expedite fate and help Sanchez become a better Quarterback. [A Major Random Note on Expediting Fate - Macbeth or Oedipus Rex : Any Thoughts?]
HB == The Jets current starter is Thomas Jones. Others are Shonn Greene, Leon Washington, and Chauncey Washington. Fans say imploded on the scene and became the star the Jets wanted to see after losing Leon Washington to a disappointing injury. The Jets could try to get a running back such as LT or Westbrook if they lose Leon (to a tender offer sheet) or TJ (to release or trade). Some say TJ should leave, so is Chauncey who you want third on the depth chart or do you draft another? Getting another running back in this year's draft or free agency could secure the halfback position for years to come.
FB == The Jets current starter is Tony Richardson. I saw that most people love T-Rich. He's one of best fullbacks in the league right now (If not the best). The Jets also have a developing Jason Davis. Jason Davis is an active tweeter and has been signed to a future/reserve contract. I don't know the current status, but I don't think Jason Davis is headed to the depth chart next year, I think he's remaining on the practice squad unless something were to happen to T-Rich. However, I don't know that Jason Davis is the young future and full back the Jets need in their run-dependant offense. Another fullback pickup would enable the Jets to prepare for not being with T-Rich next year.
WR == The Jets starting Wide Receivers are currently Jerricho Cotchery and Braylon Edwards. The Jets also have Brad Smith, David Clowney, Wallace Wright, Marcus Henry, and Danny Woodhead ("official WR"). One could argue the Jets wide receiver position is unsettled. "NFL Experts" would argue the Jets need a special slot receiver (such as Wes Welker and the Patriots) to open up the offense more and give Sanchez another security target on third down and other short yardage situations. Do you draft a WR? Develop Woodhead? Trade for a WR?
TE == The Jets starting Tight End is Dustin Keller. Other Tight Ends on the Jets roster are Ben Hartsock and Matthew Mulligan. People argue that the Jets TE Dustin Keller is a WR playmaker with a TE body and doesn't support the run game which ends up putting a Tackle or Guard in, as if, to tell the defense the Jets are going to run right now, since a major passing threat is not for this play. A balanced TE could allow the run game to open up and give Sanchez another passing threat as well. Do you draft a TE? Trade for a TE? Do you even acknowledge this as a problem?
OT == The Jets current starters are D'Brickashaw Ferguson (LT) and Damien Woody (RT). The one backup listed on the depth chart is Wayne Hunter. Some Jets fans are worried about the depth. Damien is 32 and Wayne is 28. I don't know if Wayne is just waiting for his time to take over Woody's place in the years, if so, that Jets definitely need to upgrade depth at the Offensive Tackle postion. The Jets have had an offensive line that has started all the games together the past two seasons, I see a third is going to be great for this unit. There could be some pick-ups late in this years draft or un-drafted talent. But how do you want to add depth?
OG == The Jets current starters are Alan Faneca and Brandon Moore. Others on the depth chart include Robert Turner and Matt Slauson. Alan Faneca is 33 years old and he is still a stud and pro-bowler. However, Brandon Moore does his job very well also, but not to the level of Faneca's execution. Slauson looks like he will help replace Brandon Moore in the near future, if he needs it. Slauson was coached by Callahan back in the day, so I see this was as a wise pick up by the Jets and definitely had Callahan's name all over it. I don't think I have seen Slauson get too much playing time. I have seen Robert Turner occasionally going in during games to support the run, and implying "Hey, We're running." But It would be nice to see some more depth here also. How do you think the Jets should handle the guards situation?
C == The Jets current starter is Nick Mangold. His backup is listed as Robert Turner. When the Jets selected him 29th overall in the first round, it became the first time in a while I predicted the two first round picks of the Jets correctly. I don't know anything bad to say about Mangold. I did make him a background a while ago. (Link's here : http://twitpic.com/xr5hn). I think Mangold was scheduled to only make 725k this year, however he ended up making 3.3 million because of incentives reached. It's true. I believe the Jets don't have to requestion if they should extend his contract. Do you? Is there some needed depth on the o-line though?
DT == The Jets current starter is Kris Jenkins, however we can argue the actual starter is Sione Pouha. Another member on the depth chart is Howard Green. So, one of the biggest, if not the biggest strength in this year's draft class has to be the numerous availability of defensive tackles. It's impressive to look at names and think about that these could be second round players in last year's draft, however, they are projected to the third round because the talent is in the DTs. After all, most mocks have the best defensive tackles, Ndamukong Suh and Gerald McCoy going number 1 and 2 respectively. So, do you find a young talent to match up with Pouha in the future years? Do we go for an edge rusher?
DE == The Jets current starters are Shaun Ellis and Marques Douglas. Others listed on the depth chart are Mike Devito and Ropati Pitoitua. Another defensive end signed to a future/reserve contract is Matt Kroul. Many people argue this is one of the major needs that the Jets need to address this offseason. Ellis and Douglas are both 32 years old. This hasn't slowed down production of either player. They still make an impact when they are on the field. Douglas is a major run supporter and Ellis went to the pro bowl with a broken hand. Ellis is someone I would hate to see replace, since I've seen him in a jersey for long time and he continues to produce. I believe Ryan loved seeing Ellis play with a broken hand (shows heart and pride). Some people believe the Jets should chase Travis LaBoy. Devito did shock us with playing pretty well throughout the year. Do you chase LaBoy and draft a defensive end in the early rounds of the draft? Do you look for a trade? How do you handle this situation for the Jets?
ILB == The Jets starters are Bart Scott and David Harris. Other Inside linebackers on the Jets depth chart include Ryan Fowler and Kenwin Cummings and Larry Izzo. David "Hitman" Harris and Bart "Madbacker" Scott look solid and Ryan believes they are the best inside linebacker tandem in the league. I would have to agree. Kenwin Cummings and Ryan Fowler look like solid replacements if needed. I could see the Fowler have more impact Special Teams Ace Larry Izzo had impact on special teams until his knee injury. Rex Ryan also mention Larry Izzo because he was ''on winning teams, so hopefully he continues the trend.'' He did. But right now, it looks like he won't be a Jet next year. If the Jets lose Izzo to free agency, how do you think the Jets can replace the tremendous impact he had on special teams this year? Is Fowler the answer or is the draft?
OLB == The Jets current starters are Calvin Pace and Bryan Thomas. The Jets also have Vernon Gholston, Marques Murrell, and Jamaal Westerman. Calvin Pace is one of the best pass rushers but without having another pass rusher on the other side, it makes it hard to challenge the quarterback. Bryan Thomas is solid in coverage and run support, but getting to that quarterback has been a challenge for him. Vernon Gholston looks like he is staying but I think if he makes impact this year, he's like a great pick up and maybe the Jets can find a way to get him to have impact. Ryan pictures Gholston having a bigger role this year and more impact. Westerman looks like another solid backup. The Jets have solid backups in this, but they need to find that pass rushing phenom who can drop back in coverage occasionally to help Coach Ryan. How do you address this need? How high is your priority level on it?
CB == The Jets current starters are [Numerous Rounds of Applaud... Darrelle Revis (Mr. Manhattan)], and Lito Sheppard and one can argue Dwight Lowery and Donald Strickland play so much, they basically start. The others on the depth chart are Drew Coleman and Marquice Cole. The cornerback to play opposite Revis raises numerous questions in the Jets currrent depth chart. Lito played 39% of the defensive snaps during the regular season and was not the starter for the AFC championship game. The Jets owe Sheppard a ten million dollar roster bonus shortly, is that happening? The Jets backups Dwight Lowery and Donald Strickland look like solid backups. Are they solid and in the Jets future? I think Lowery is pretty good covering the third or fourth receiver on any team. Strickland was a great pick up in the offseason and I see him having a more impact role next year and blitzing more, he goes for the ball often and ends up getting close. Who do you think the best corner to match up with Revis is? Do you bring Nnamdi in for the next four or five years, and pay him crazy amounts of money in an uncapped year and force teams to really run? Do you take risks and try and pull two corners in the first couple rounds hoping one will make an impact? How do you handle the situation? The safest way to be get Nnamdi (a proven superstar) but the value, is it worth all that money? Is it worth the draft picks and players? How do you handle this situation? Do you trade up in the draft? Trade down and understand two corners can ensure a solid competition and ensure more depth? Just get one? What do you do?
FS == The Jets current starter is Kerry Rhodes. The other free safety on the depth chart is Eric Smith. Kerry Rhodes was benched during the regular season and currently has to deal with trade rumors. While Rhodes was benched for not being physical enough, Eric Smith took his place. I don't know if Eric Smith is a starter next year in Rex's system, definitely a solid rotation in the safeties, and an impact player on special teams. After Rhodes' benching, he became more of the player we'd like to see, but the wake up call definitely makes you ask: Do you give Rhodes the boot or trade him to another team? How do you handle the situation? Is it worth causing another need to address with the draft? Is James Ihedigbo the starter next year?
SS == The Jets current starter is Jim Leonhard. The other strong safety on the Jets depth chart is James Ihedigbo. Jim Leonhard was brought to New York and actually took less money last year to stay with Rex Ryan. He was offered a higher paying deal by the Denver Broncos and definitely looks to be stick with Ryan for a while. As an un-drafted free agent, he exceeds most expectations. The backup James Ihedigbo (King Ugly - voted in this year's past training camp) is an active tweeter, enjoys connection with Jets fans, and definitely has impact on special teams. He could take Rhodes' place next year. I got to be honest I don't know if I should even question this position. Do you think we're set? It definitely can't hurt to find some depth in un-drafted free agents.
K == The Jets current starter is Jay Feely. The other kicker on the roster is Nick Folk. Jay Feely was successful in the postseason, unlike his opponents, up until the colts game, 1/3. Jay also missed a field goal against the Bills, a game that went into overtime and lost by a field goal. He did make up next Bills game going 4/4. Jay Feely also holds a record for consecutive field goals in Jets history. He is clutch. The recent signing of Nick Folk has many Jets fans and Jay scratching their heads. Nick Folk did have a horrible streak of misses before he got the boot from the Cowboys. Most fans like Jay Feely, he is an active tweeter. Signing Nick Folk was an early decision in the front office. It does secure the spot for next year, if you like Folk, if not, what do you do if Feely won't re-sign.
P == The Jets current starter is Steve Weatherford. No other punters on the depth chart and no other need to have two punters on the depth chart. Last year, the Jets went through a carousel of punters before arriving with Weatherford and it seems he sort of won by default. He missed a playoff game against the Bengals and Feely did take his place. During the season, he was average at best. The two fake punts he ran for, were both successful and something of an enjoyment. However, how do the Jets handle this situation? Do you go on the merry-go-round trying to find another new punter this year, again?
This is interesting how I suppose this can be a condensed version of what's going through Tannenbaum's mind. I don't know how he sleeps. And..he definitely knows more about each situation and I respect that he keeps to himself through negotiations and debates.
Please send me emails (straussm60@gmail.com) about suggestions for your debates.
Again, you're in charge of the Jets, Here are my two questions for you:
1) What are the Jets biggest needs? Please list in order and specify what the order is. You can skip.
2) How do you address the needs? Please list after the need.
Past debates:
#5 : http://www.ganggreennation.com/2010/2/28/1330216/5-your-needs-and-situations-debate
#4 : http://www.ganggreennation.com/2010/2/27/1329167/4-your-tj-workhorse-debate
#3 : http://www.ganggreennation.com/2010/2/26/1328528/3-your-rhodes-situation-debate
#2 : http://www.ganggreennation.com/2010/2/24/1324927/my-trading-up-debate
#1 : http://www.ganggreennation.com/2010/2/23/1323775/my-brandon-marshall-debate
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Watching the combine, would love to have Chad back he would be the mentor Sanchez needs, could even become a coach.
Rex and Mike T where looking real hard at the RB group, so it may be they are thinking about drafting. LT or BW would be bad additions for the Jets.
Dont think there really is need for a WR but is always good to have them, the Colts seem to follow that philosophy and it works for them. Shipley not looking good in combine, he is a six year senior too. (Did not know that)
Need, need, need a blocking TE, using an extra tackle gives away the play and it can confuse the player.
The O-line is not getting younger in the right side but it can hold for at least two more years.
The D-line will always be a revolving door with Rex’s defense. Douglas is serviceable, Pouha might get better. I have personal reasons for not liking Ellis but he is 1- Aging, 2-Expensive, 3-Numbers-wise unproductive (I know numbers dont really mean much) Whatever you say I have my reasons for not liking him and yes is a grudge. Does NOT affect the team since I dont make decisions but remember that sometimes coaches get rid of a guy they dont personally like too.
The linebacker corps is great, could use another killer but Rex says he could turn Gholston into one and I see no reason to doubt him in anything right now.
The secondary is practically depleted, aging, injuries and just plain mediocrity held it back. Besides Revis and Leonhard the players were up and down all year, need consistency specially at safety cannot expect the linebackers to both blitz and hold back the pass.
Kicking remains a crapshoot for the Jets, they need a player they keep for more than two years. Maybe stop penny pinching when it comes to kickers. Steal the Raider’s scouts or something.
Special teams is a strong area with one of the best coaches. Not worried about that part, and apparenty neither is anyone since no one mentions it.
Jets green since 1997
Thank you for reading it all. I’m very happy you added your view :D!
Is TE more important than WR?
I rarely see grudges against Ellis. He did injure Jenkins accidentally and he did start the Tom Brady era, so I don’t know.
He does have impact, hence why he was in the Pro Bowl. I hope Ellis can be one of the few Jets to remain throughout his tenure though.
Secondary is becoming depleted.
Who do you like at Running back? name some rookies? A lot like Gerhart as a pickup. I know the Jets scouts will pull through with very accurate ratings like they did last year. They also pleaded Shonn Greene because he was graded as a mid first round back, and the Jets were considering if there was no trade down option. To fall to the third round, I have confidence the RB scouts will perform solid this year as well.
-Check out the Debates-
Interesting later round RB prospects are Joique Bell, Pat parshal, and Lonyae Miller
Ryan Mathews and Montario Hardesty could fall to mid second early third.
The blocking TE is a real need right now, can not keep using unexperienced tackles playing that position, last year Hunter and Slauson (think he was a rookie) looked lost, sometimes causing snap issues and formation penalties.
Sadly Gerhart is first round talent, he almost got the Heisman, some say he deserved it. Looking real good in combine. So is Hardesty.
Dennis Pitta is very good blocking TE, second round talent thought.
Jets green since 1997
Interesting how there is so much talk about finding that slot receiver, but I think more people want a balanced Tight End.
What about the OLB and CB situation?
-Check out the Debates-
Just as a note, Gerhart aint going in the first round, it’s even questionable if he goes in the 2nd round.
Writer/Assistant editor
Eternal optimist
New York Jets
Gang Green Nation
www.ganggreennation.com
by David_Wyatt on Feb 28, 2010 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
I know, too much talent up there, any other year he would go to to a team like the Saints or San Francisco.
Jets green since 1997
If we could grab him, I would be delighted with it, I’m just not sure if only have two picks in the first 4 rounds warrant us to spend one of them on a RB. Would be a nice addition, but can’t see it. I think he goes middle 2nd, someone will get nervous and just make sure they get him.
Writer/Assistant editor
Eternal optimist
New York Jets
Gang Green Nation
www.ganggreennation.com
I would say our top needs are:
*Cornerback who can play press/man coverage. I like McCourty.
*DL depth. Ellis, Jenkins, and Douglas are all in their 30s and we lack any type of depth outside of Pouha who a backup. I hope for Odrick.
*OLB. Gholston is still a huge question mark but I hope Rex can fit him into his 3rd down blitz packages. Thomas and Pace are also not more than above average and getting old. I’d like a 5th or 6th round pick project for Rex.
*Slot Receiver. Not a huge need because we dont run many 3 WR sets but I wouldn’t mind getting a late pick or UDFA.
*Nickel or Dime back. Someone who could cover Austin Collie perhaps. Again UDFA or late pick or veteran if there is any.
*Jay Feely
*OL. I think that Faneca may have one or two years left and Woody is also nothing more than average.
*Safety. Perhaps someone who can cover a TE.
*3rd Running back. Insurace policy.
Thanks,
I am happy so far with the lengthy responses. I put so much time into this article, I hope some major debates come out of this.
Wouldn’t you rate 3rd running back higher? Especially since TJ won’t be here, and unless something is seen in Chauncey Washington?
Devin and Darrelle sounds good to me.
I think it would be wise if the Jets can trade down in the second round to pick up McCourty and give away next year’s third round pick and pick up a 4th and 5th this year also. There is so much depth this year, I like most of it.
Have you heard of Cam Thomas or Alualu? for other late defensive linemen. Look them up :)
I would prefer McCourty and then Alualu or Thomas later in the draft (Ryan’s project.)
I’m confident Gholston will have an impact this year.
-Check out the Debates-
I don’t think a 3rd string running back is a pressing need. I think anyone that has fresh legs and doesnt fumble can be effective behind our OL to be honest. You look at how much Greene touched the ball before the Oakland game… that’s why I dont see it as a big need. Even woodhead could probably do the job.
I like Woodhead to become the slot receiver.
What about a 2nd string running back if we let Leon go also?
== The Jets get a 2nd round pick ==
Who would you use?
-Check out the Debates-
Oh and I’m all for signing Pennington. Would be perfect mentor. Then hope someone will give us a 2011 conditional 7th rounder if Clemens makes the roster.
Hmm.
Pennington would be too expensive.
People think Bulger might be released enabling the Jets to be able to pick him up.
I see Sproles getting 4 to 6 million dollars also, impossible to pick up.
I like Clemens enough to think he’ll stay since he has a second round tender. I would like it if he were to stay, but I don’t think he will. I think he knows what to do if Sanchez comes out, and can easily maintain the win. I don’t think he can get the win, but if we’re winning he can manage the situation and come out with the win.
I know there is so much depth.
I would love to see Alualu or Cam Thomas land with the Jets in the late rounds of the draft.
How would your draft go?
-Check out the Debates-
Ideally signing Antrel Rolle.
1- Odrick
2+ Rhodes – McCourty
5 – OLB prospect.
6 – Safety Prospect, strong or free.
7 – Running back prospect. I have no issue with the recommended Marshall here.
I dont have suggestions for late round picks. Just dont follow it closely enough to have an insightful answers.
I would not be disappointed picking up another corner, OL, TE or FB.
Interesting. I think it would be hard to sign rolle and have that.
That would be successful.
So you’re assuming you re-sign everyone on tender sheets?
-Check out the Debates-
I’m not sure who will get an offer. If its Leon, it’ll depend on the offer. If its a large offer, I’d probably look to trade that 2nd down and pick up a 3rd 4th and 6th or so and address the other needs, including a RB.
Depends how well McCourty runs at the combine lol. Ideally I’d like him in the second. I’d trade Brad Smith with our 2nd too if thats what it takes. If his stock jumps then I take him first and look at a 3-4 DE 2nd pick.
this
I don’t think a 3rd string running back is a pressing need. I think anyone that has fresh legs and doesnt fumble can be effective behind our OL to be honest.
+1
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
That is true.
So, is Chauncey the answer to the three headed monster?
Or do you go after someone else?
-Check out the Debates-
It depends, I think Chauncey could be serviceable as a
3 man team of running backs, getting the least touches of the three, but I also would be interested in running backs available in the late round when we pick, and depending on who is there, I would possibly look running back.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
First time I heard of Jason Davis or Marcus Henry
In my view, the team’s needs are:
1) CB, 2) OLB, 3) RB depth now that Jones is gone, 4) DL, 5) WR depth, 7) OL depth for the future.
It bothers me that we have no 3rd or 4th round pick – that’s what happens when you follow an aggressive trading-up policy.
I don’t follow the NCAA enough to suggest players for each position. I think WR depth could be improved by signing Torry Holt and cutting Clowney. Nate Burleson would also be a good alternative choice at WR3. I don’t want Sproles because anything he can do, Leon can (assuming he’s in good condition) do better. At linebacker, Adalius Thomas is a signing I would consider if the price is right, Joey Porter isn’t.
On the defensive line, someone suggested moving Jenkins to end and having an Ellis – Pouha – Jenkins line. I think that depends on how Kris looks in training camp, but it’s worth considering.
At CB, the UFA class isn’t very deep, I’m not sure whether I would prefer to take a vet (Bodden?) or draft a CB in the first round, but I lean towards the latter.
Jason Davis #43. I feel he is the future fullback of the Jets.
Who do you want in this year’s draft class to be a Jet?
-Check out the Debates-
I'll go with the first 2 rounds.
Kyle Wilson, Devin McCourty, Perrish Cox, Jerry Hughes, Brandon Graham, Sergio Kindle, Wes Welker Brandon Shipley :). Any 2 of those and I will be thrilled.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
*Jordan Shipley
...you're a jet all the way.
by OnceYoureAJet on Mar 1, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Good call.
I like McCourty, I don’t know, maybe him saying he wants to be like Revis makes us like him more?
But, we need to find a young lockdown man even if he can only cover the third stringers while lockdown. Just someone who won’t need help.
This new Ryan defense revolves around the secondary and not the linemen and linebackers.
-Check out the Debates-
I do that all the time.
I don’t know why call him Brandon so much. I guess some part of my prain is thinking Stokley. I am usually very good with names, but I do that to Shipley A LOT. Sorry about that.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
brain*
dah!
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
It's strange.
As much as I love Leon, it seems like there are more and more Leon’s coming into the league every year. There’s a lot of speedy little guys who can return and be receiving threats from the backfield. This year it’s Jahvid Best and Trindon Holliday leading the pack, the more I think about it, the more I wonder if we take a 2nd round pick for him, and try to replace him in the late rounds, or you can sign Sproles since TJ and Feely left and let Leon go and net a 2nd rounder.
In that scenario, you have Greene and Sproles, and the RB situation becomes more firm, without Leon’s leg in question. You also have a first and 2 seconds, we could perhaps get the combo many dream for in Wilson/Cox, Hughes/Graham, and Shipley. Imagine that? The best thing about these discussions to me is that, with the Rangers, Mets, and Knicks (up util DW came to town), you could talk about this stuff, knowing full well that the GM would never think of anything like this, but with Mike T it’s different. Maybe that was part of his plan in letting TJ and Feely go.
Can that work? Let Leon walk for a second, sign Sproles, come out of the draft with Shipley, Hughes and Wilson? I think I would love this.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
Shipley looked really bad at the combine. Like he was overwhelmed. He is a six year senior. Not saying he wont be any good, just that he is going to be rated to go in the third day.
Jets green since 1997
Even better for us
I love how a football player is dropping in stock because he didn’t do so well in a track meet. It’s ridiculous, but it all plays into our favor.
I guess he isn't that good
…at track and field. But from all the evidence I’ve seen he’s a heck of a football player.
It’s debatable. I mean…you can say the combine means nothing…
But..who is better Adrian Peterson or Chris Johnson?
Both had completely different combine results. Both had completely different seasons.
Rookie impact was much greater by Adrian Peterson but.. sophomore year Chris Johnson had much more impact, with the new QB changes. (Vince Young vs. Brett Favre). However, the Vikings played nine man fronts, Chris Johnson saw defenders back off so they could take him down after gaining yards.
Shipley is a good player, but is he the slot the Jets need or should the Jets go after some late round receivers who just need to be built up but have the height.
Or do you go after a blocking TE so the defense doesn’t know you’re running when you run, or the pass there is a passing play when Shipley is on the field.
There is way too much depth to analyze this year… or else I would make a mock draft for all 7 rounds.
-Check out the Debates-
The AD/CJ comparison is not a particularly good one
Both had monster combines and and it doesn’t really matter which one you think is the best because there’s not much debate that they’re the 1 and 2 backs in the league.
But my point is look at guys who dominated in college and had mediocre/bad combine performances, i.e. Shonn flippin’ Greene, and see how they do in the pros. How about Jerry Rice, that slow ass mofo only ran a 4.71 40! I’m pretty sure that Gholston ran a faster 40 than that. I guarantee you that guys who did great in college and had poor combines on average do WAY better in the NFL than workout warriors who had nondescript college careers.
Did Shipley have a bad combine? I didn’t think so, his 40 times was where many expected it to be, his talent lies in his intelligence, the ability to find holes in the zone, his good hands and the ability to make people miss in the open field. None of which are really tested at the combine. Ship is going to be a stud. The only player in this draft I have more confidence in is Suh, that’s the truth, that’s how much faith I have in Shipley. He might get 400 yards this year or something around there, but sooner or later he will be a 800-1000 yard guy from the slot. I wouldn’t worry about Shipley’s combine numbers, his talents are not tested, but his strength came out with his bench press, he was one of the top performers in that category. Having the strength to get off blocks at the line.
Writer/Assistant editor
Eternal optimist
New York Jets
Gang Green Nation
www.ganggreennation.com
Exactly Dave.
For a slot WR you aren’t really concerned about speed. The things I want are toughness, because you have to work the middle of the field where the safeties and linebackers lurk, intelligence/route running, because the whole idea of being a slot guy is to find the soft spots in the middle of the field, in a way you have to outsmart the guys trying to cover you, and hands, you gota catch the rock. I’m pretty sure Shipley has all of the above. I doubt Wes Welker would impress anybody if he went through the combine right now (healthy).
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
^^^THESE
Heard Welker ran a 4.6 btw. So did Jerry Rice. I think those guys turned out ok. Watch the video Dave put up with his analysis. Watch the way he runs routes. Watch his hands, his quickness. Watch his tenacity. If he plays with a good QB he’s a pro bowler. He can be better than Welker i think. He’s just as quick but he’s bigger and stronger. You can bank on him being productive. Bank it.
It’s not speed that wins in NFL receivers…
look at Brandon Marshall
how about Braylon Edwards.
and Anquan Boldin.
It’s physicality and the break off the ball.
speed does help, i.e. Calvin Johnson.
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Even Calvin isn't that fast.
His speed is okay, but like you said, I think his size, athleticism and physicality are what makes him a beast.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
I don't know, maybe. I honestly don't really follow the combine,
but watching him play, and I watch the Lions a lot (only because of Calvin, fantasy football), I never was wowed by his speed. Not to say he isn’t fast, maybe his size just masked it. I was always much more impressed by his leaping ability, his awareness, body control and strength. I never would think of Calvin Johnson as fast, even though he may well be able to burn. It may be not fair, but I don’t mean it as an indictment, I mean it as a compliment. When I think of speed receiver, I think DeSean Jackson, Santana Moss in his Jets days, Percy Harvin, Steve Smith, those kind of guys.
I remember one play DeSean Jackson made (well, probably more then one, but one play specifically that stands out to me), where he caught a punt against the Giants, backpedaled a little bit to give himself some forward momentum, and just exploded down the sideline. It was crazy. DeSean Jackson is just stupid good at punt returning. Here was the play.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH0bh75JMxY
A couple more gems while we’re at it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPXSzia2Zfg
really?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQDjc-X4MYw&feature=related
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
Just random, but I
was looking through random youtube football highlights and came across some of David Boston. I felt strange, because I had forgotten all about him, it’s just weird because there was a couple of years when he was just flat out dominant. He came into the league with some hype, had a few huge years, then ended up out of the NFL before he turned 28.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
Boston was a freak. He went off the deep end. He couldve had such a good career.
Jacksons a freak in a good way. Guy is just sick.
What about that bust….WR Charles Rogers (Michigan State) Drafted by: Lions, first round, No. 2 overall in 2003.
Rogers put up monster numbers at Michigan State and was supposed to solve Detroit’s issues at wide receiver.
Didn’t solve receiver problems for Detroit.
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You can’t expect a WR to just go onto a team with awful QBs and expect him to actually be any good, not to mention he probably had some awful coaching to go along with it. The same goes for pretty much every other position, given the same circumstances.
Yeah, still a bust.
To have potential, you can be poorly coached and do well.
Calvin had 78 1331 yds 12TD and they went 0-16
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Hey, don’t get me wrong I agree with you that he was a bust, but my point is that maybe he wouldn’t have been a bust in a better situation. Comparing him to a guy like Calvin Johnson is unfair because he’s a god damned beast, a once-in-a-generation specimen/talent.
Calvin ran a 4.35 if I remember correctly.
but those size, and athleticism, and physicality makes receivers win against corners these days and in the past.
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Yeah he doesn't look like a 4-3 guy on the field,
but he does look like a WR in a TE’s body who just can’t be covered.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
By the way, rec'd.
Nice job, appreciate you putting what obviously was a fair amount of time into this.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
Great job, Max. Great job with the comments as well, guys.
and the home of the... JETS!!!
www.ganggreennation.com
Here here +1
...you're a jet all the way.
by OnceYoureAJet on Mar 1, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
I think a really underrated need for us is OL depth
We’ve been RIDICULOUSLY lucky that we’ve had what is it now 35 consecutive starts including the playoffs for the 5 of them together. That NEVER EVER happens, and sooner rather than later everything regresses to the mean. We’re going to see at least one and I’d bet 2 or even 3 major injuries in the OL this year, and that really scares me.
The more and more I think about it, the more I am concerned with upgrading the offense moreso than I am concerned about upgrading the defense. We led the league in passing defense with Revis and a revolving door of CB2s and a spotty pass rush… IN THEIR FIRST YEAR IN THE SYSTEM. They’re going to get better. Sure we can use pieces, but it’s ridiculous that everyone considers it such an enormous priority. Meanwhile we’ve got like 8 total offensive linemen in the active roster, we’ve lost our top RB. If we shore up those and manage to get a stud WR, we can get into that upper echelon of offenses. Remember guys, THE DEFENSE WAS THE BEST IN THE LEAGUE LAST YEAR, GUYS
Yes.
However, there is so much depth in this year’s class, there can be solid OL in the fourth and fifth rounds.
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Is OL depth more important than a blocking TE?
Versatile TEs can’t be found late in the draft.
Linemen can be un-drafted free agents.
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We have one of the most versatile TEs in the NFL. I think going best available is the way to go in the late rounds. Just try to load up as much talent as possible.
I would love to. Any of them… All of them. This, it seems by all accounts, is one of the best draft classes ever. So yeah, if by some miracle we could use all of next year’s picks this year, I would do it.
Interesting.
But not all next year’s picks for one player?
Who’s your favorites of this draft class?
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No way all for one player.
I’ll limit my favorites to 5 (no particular order):
1) Jerry Hughes, DE/OLB, TCU
2) Toby Gerhart, RB, Stanford
3) Jordan Shipley, WR, Texas
4) Eric Berry, S, Tennessee
5) Kong Suh, DT, Nebraska
I think these 5 will all be in the Pro Bowl at some point in their careers.
Did you see that article Crack, that said that this draft has the potential to be as good as or better than the 1983 class. 1983 had 6 hall of famers in the first round, that’s how much potential this draft has. Can’t remember where the article was, SI or ESPN I think.
Writer/Assistant editor
Eternal optimist
New York Jets
Gang Green Nation
www.ganggreennation.com
I can’t judge corner. In my own mind I can get a feel for other positions, I think, lol. But corner i have to see it in the NFL before i believe it.
Hard to say right now as far as draft goes. 3 guys i realy want are Hughes, Shipley and Gerhart.
So i would have a quasi-best available approach.
If Hughes is there take him first. Then Gerhart if he’s there late in the second. If either/both are unavailable then Shipley moves up accordingly, whether thats up to the 2nd or 1st pick.
Then I go best edge rusher (if not filled).
Then best available CB/RB (if not filled).
Then rounds 5-7 is strictly best available.
What about you?
I’m still debating….of course..
I definitely will have a mock draft come out, or start a “people’s mock draft”.
I definitely feel corner is one of the major needs.
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I like Gerhart a lot. I think most people do.
However,
I feel that if the scouting report isn’t good, don’t take him.
Last year, Shonn Greene had a report of 6.25, and that means a mid first round pick.
For him to slide to the third, is incredible and a fantastic pick up for the Jets.
If there is a back that isn’t projected first round and he has ratings of that round potential, I don’t know if I like that back. If Gerhart is projected first and graded first, but lasts until the third, I’ll be shocked and more than willing to take him.
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I think it could happen with Gerhart. He’s a good fit for our system, but not for many other teams. Seems like everyone else is playing copycat and trying to find the next Chris Johnson. Thats why Spiller and Best are rated so high (both will bust IMO). Plus the philosophy of being able to find good backs late seems to be in vogue. So i think they will be a run on other positions (DTs, DBs, OLs, LBs) before teams start going for backs. I think a lot of really good backs are going to drop into the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds. But since we don’t have a 3rd and 4th, I think its better if we just jump out and target the guy we really like.
IMO and personal order of preference: Gerhart, maybe Ryan Matthews, Anthony Dixon, maybe Jonathan Dwyer.
If you don’t mean RB, but best available player, then Im hoping for Hughes.
But its hard its to pick a first at 29 who also isnt projected heavily in the 2nd round.
Hughes will be there
Hes projected a 2nd rounder, maybe sneak into the 1st as in my draft. Hes mostly a situational pass rusher, sort of a liability in coverage.
Didn't he play 4-3 DE?
Those guys are always tough to know because that position generally doesn’t do any covering. It’s usually hard to tell before they turn pro. Is he projected to be a liability in coverage? Because I can’t imagine a pass rushing defensive end being considered a liability in the pass rush before they leave college, when they don’t even cover anybody.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
Thought he was a DE in college as well. IDK about his coverage at all. Don’t really care cause i want him to climb on QBs.
But watch him explode off the ball. Can’t teach that. He’s like Freeney in that sense. I watched him run his forty just to see how he came off the line. The guy just explodes like he’s shot out of a gun. He’s a can’t miss.
Thought about doing a mock, but I can’t assess any other team’s needs and how certain guys would fit into certain systems and all that. Mine would come out with the Jets somehow getting the perfect player at every pick. ; )
HAHA. :D
I do. It took me four days to do this one article. Thanks though.
I’m happy you like it. I think that’s what you meant, because I have friends who say that..
especially like, after Shaun White nailed the Double Mc, it’s like, “Go do something else with your life Shaun White”
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On a damn victory lap.
That was nuts. Carrot top is bad ass.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
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