#3 : Your Rhodes' Situation Debate.
by Max Strauss on Feb 26, 2010 8:42 PM EST
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PrintTo introduce you to the situation, the Jets needs are highly debated this year. I don't think it's right to trade away Rhodes and develop another need to address come draft day. As much as I love this year's talent, I don't know if we should totally give up on Rhodes. After his benching, the Jets played the Panthers where Rhodes ended up with two interceptions. With Jake Delhomme throwing, Revis did also. He played his heart out and was definitely more physical like we all wanted. However, he did have quarrel with secondary coach Dennis Thurman.
Who remembers the hit he had on Chad "Johnson", and how good it felt?
There is a way to address this situation, it's possible to trade Rhodes because he still has some value before free agency and probably less after free agency begins.
Kerry Rhodes was a fourth round pick (123 overall) out of Louisville. Kerry Rhodes burst onto the scene his first years in the NFL. Since then though, he has dropped off the mark, and hasn't built back to his old ways.
Statistics:
2005 = / Total Tackles - 105 / Sacks - 1 / PD - 5 / Int - 1 / FF - 1
2006 = / Total Tackles - 98 / Sacks - 5 / PD - 9 / Int - 4 / FF - 3
2007 = / Total Tackles - 67 / Sacks - 2 / PD - 10 / Int - 5 / FF - 2
2008 = / Total Tackles - 84 / Sacks - 1 / PD - 5 / Int - 2 / FF - 0
2009 = / Total Tackles - 63 / Sacks - 1* / PD - 13 / Int - 3 / FF - 1*
* His sack in the postseason was on Philip Rivers and he forced the fumble, he did boast immediately, and the Jets didn't recover the ball.
If Ryan wants the Jets to score on defense, Kerry Rhodes has never scored on defense.
However, the Jets were first overall in yards allowed agains the pass in large part due to Revis, Leonhard, and Rhodes.
He is an active twitter-er, an active facebook-er, connects to the fans, and signs footballs if you wear his jersey on gameday and sit close enough so he can see you.
He does good for the fans of his, if they are still out there. Speak up!
Please send me emails (straussm60@gmail.com) about suggestions for your debates or comment below.
If you are in charge of the Jets, here are my questions:
1) What do you do with Rhodes?
2) What can the Jets get in-exchange for Rhodes? Is it worth it?
3) Why is he worth adding another need to the Jets defense and open up another hole in the secondary?
Past debates:
#5 : http://www.ganggreennation.com/2010/2/28/1330216/5-your-needs-and-situations-debate
#4 : http://www.ganggreennation.com/2010/2/27/1329167/4-your-tj-workhorse-debate
#3 : http://www.ganggreennation.com/2010/2/26/1328528/3-your-rhodes-situation-debate
#2 : http://www.ganggreennation.com/2010/2/24/1324927/my-trading-up-debate
#1 : http://www.ganggreennation.com/2010/2/23/1323775/my-brandon-marshall-debate
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1) I stick by him and give him another year, set it out for him that this is an important year for his career and make sure he buys into the team aspect of doing something special. He is not the main attraction on this team, he is not even the main attraction in the secondary. I think he has a ton of potential, he is still young, and he finished the season off strong. If he stopped addressing all the hateful things sent to him with snide comments that isolate even more of the fan base, and just concentrates on playing football and making a difference, he will soon regain the fans that he may of lost last season. He showed he can play in this D towards the end of the season, and I’m interested to see if he can put a full season together.
2) I don’t think we are getting much back from Rhodes, under achiever with quite a nice contract, a 4th rounder possibly a 3rd. He could be part of another trade but that would just give us another hole to fill. I think it would be stupid to trade away a guy who obviously has talent, give him a year, what we get back won’t be as valuable as what we lose in my opinion.
3) It’s not worth adding another hole.
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AGREE
Not worth adding another hole.
This secondary was numbero uno against the pass this year.
However, a deal that brings Ed Reed for Rhodes, I would openly accept.
There were rumors a while ago about Rhodes heading to Baltimore
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by Max Strauss on Feb 26, 2010 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
Rhodes for Cromartie straight up seems fair...
But I don’t SD would do that.
Maybe Rhodes for Ed Reed could work. Reed might like to reunite with Rex, and could force the issue by threatening to retire. Ravens get a fairly young, solid FS in return.
I would love that situation. On my rigged madden rosters, we all do them…I think, lol, or at least teenagers, I always combine Reed, Leonhard, Asomugha, and Revis on the Jets.
Anyways….
I don’t know, Ed Reed is an extreme value to their franchise and can be solid for six or seven years, he just can’t slow down like Dawkins did not, but I don’t know. He’s coming off a serious neck injury, but Revis and Reed and Leonhard and Ryan would make me extremely happy.
I don’t know though if that’s a possible case. I would love straight that trade straight up. Unfortunately that would mean that he might have to change his number, unless the TJ case gets solved soon. Hopefully, he is re-signed.
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by Max Strauss on Feb 26, 2010 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
Agree
The only way to let him go is if we get a good cover corner AND sign or draft a replacement safety, otherwise we should never let it happen.
It would be a huge oversight to get rid of a player that can keep big plays in check.
Jets green since 1997
Right. No reason to make a whole.
We might lose Eric Smith (his backup) after all. I don’t see it happening, he’s very valuable on special teams and rotations on defense.
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by Max Strauss on Feb 26, 2010 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
Ihedigbo is more suited to a strong safety position, he doesn’t have the speed or awareness to play the FS in my opinion.
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by David_Wyatt on Feb 27, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Hmm.
Leonhard is solid there.
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by Max Strauss on Feb 27, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think it’s worth putting it up for another need come draft day. If some tenders bring picks, like Smith, maybe the Jets go for an FS.
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by Max Strauss on Feb 27, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
I’m quite happy with Rhodes, he had a down season, and his hitting left a lot to be desired, but 13 pass defences, 3 INT, a forced fumble, it’s not like he was hurting the team. He was infuriating sure, but we have to be intelligent here, he is young, he has good range, and has shown that he can cover the best TE’s in the game. I don’t want to give up on a player like that and hope that we can find someone to fill his shoes. I think we should be looking to add to what we have, not create more holes to fill.
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by David_Wyatt on Feb 27, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Ding
Ding ! Ding ! Ding ! I think we have a winning argument.
What do the haters have to say about this?
in a kinda happy / joking mood
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Whats frustrating is that he leaves too many plays on the field, lacks effort, is a malcontent, and he doesn’t want to be here.
We need a Hawk/Hitter in centerfield. Not a guy who is almost there to make a play most of the time.
How many times has been a step too late? How many times has he pulled up on a hit? 2 of his 3 INTs were arm-punts from Jake Delhomme. He strip sacks Rivers and thumps his chest rather than going for the recovery.
Antrel Rolle is still out there. Or maybe we could trade Rhodes for a second rounder. Berry and Earl Thomas will probably be gone, but we can still get Chad Jones, LSU (maybe, he’s a stud and would be a great fit), Reshad Jones, GA, Myron Rolle, FSU (will probably be available later on).
I say dump him at the first opportunity, but agree his replacement has to be readily available. His best days are behind him, and his bad attitude can be cancerous. Especially if he and his buddy Braylon are reinforcing each other’s negativity.
so you want a packaged deal to get Braylon and Kerry out?
Why cause the holes
Braylon and Kerry
for Jackson and Cromartie
If only that were possible?
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I’m not saying that we should not consider trading him under any circumstances, or that he is untouchable. Rather I wouldn’t be actively shopping him, looking to move him. I thought he finished the season off real strong, and he was starting to look like the Kerry of old. Of course that doesn’t absolve him from his sloppy earlier play, but it does make you hesitate shipping out a 27 year old guy who we know can play with the best of them.
He did leave plays out there on the field, he did shy away sometimes and sometimes it looked like his effort wasn’t there. However there was a noticeable improvement towards the end, even with the Sand Diego fumble, chest beat. It looks like we are going in another direction for the #2 cornerback situation. What I don’t want is a rookie CB and a rookie FS making up 1/2 of our secondary. I find it hard to imagine how that could benefit us in reaching our goal of a Superbowl.
Chad Jones could possibly do a job, but he has weaknesses and I wouldn’t trust him to start from day one, and that’s the same with all of those guys. If we got offered a starting FS in return and some draft value which is unlikely then possibly we can consider it, but actively shipping him is probably not a good idea. Best pass defence, don’t want to be having a 50% changeover in the starting line-up.
Listen to offers, but don’t actively ship him, that’s my opinion.
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Too much is being made about life without Lito. We held up fine without him. Didnt need him against Tennessee. He didnt play in the Saints game, we didnt miss him. He missed both Miami games, not missed. He wasnt there for the 2nd Patriots game, Welker went off but no one else did. Not sure he would have been matched up on Welker anyway. And the coach benched him for the Colts game. Grab another vet to fill in for Lito, he wasn’t much of much importance.
And find a safety that can make plays and wants to be here. Kerry did a decent job in spots. And wasnt really a liability. But when a guy is not giving his best effort and is a malcontent, its not good for team continuity. I wouldn’t actively try to ship him, but his name would get thrown into the mix. And honestly, if we’re going draft another Safety this may well be the year to do it if we can get picks somehow.
Why cause 50% of the best secondary in the league to not return?
Stick with 25% not returning.
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Sure he was a little distraction, but he wasn’t a complete malcontent. He has already said he has talked with Pettine this off-season and it went well. I think he wants to be here, just because he didn’t do something last season, doesn’t mean he won’t do something this season. I don’t think we will trade him, which I’m happy about.
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I don’t think he wants to be here at all. I think he doesn’t want to be perceived as a malcontent. Look at his Tweet about Vilma winning it all with another team.
I don’t mind keeping him if we can’t replace him. And i hope he’s a productive team player if he does stay. But I won’t miss him for a single second if he gets shipped. Not a single nano-second.
It completely depends what we get back, can’t say I’m his biggest fan personality wise, but I just don’t want to see us taking a step back, and unless we have someone = to or greater than Kerry Rhodes, I don’t want to see us trade him. If he left for another team, and we could replace him, I wouldn’t miss the guy at all, but replacing him is the hardest part. This off-season I just don’t think we can afford to replace that talent.
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Eh.
I don’t think Kerry has great range, we disagree there, I think he is really slow. Yeah, 3 picks, 2 of them were in the Carolina game, and were just horrendous passes that were thrown way over w receivers head right into Rhodes hands. I used to love Kerry, I really don’t like him at all anymore. He is too slow, he doesn’t make very good reads on the ball, and he is afraid to stick his helmet in and make a play. A lot of safeties get to the receiver at the same time the ball does, put a big it, and separate the ball, Rhodes doesn’t. I either want an athletic freak like Cromartie who can make plays on the ball, or a head hunter who is going to come in here and put the fear of god into guys coming across the middle, Kerry doesn’t really come close to either of those.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
I definitely don't agree
with the Jets having the best secondary either. Without Revis, they are bad at best. Pass defense is partly secondary, but not completely. The pass rush had a lot to do with the pass defense, and so did Revis. I’m honestly not sure Lito or Rhodes had all the much do to with it. I also am not I agree that Rhodes didn’t hurt us this year. For games at a time, Rhodes was a straight liability to our defense.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
I just honestly think that while rhodes was great for us in past year,
he just doesn’t want to be here, he doesn’t want to hit anybody, he already got paid, and he isn’t down with Rex Ryans defense. That’s how I feel. I think that there are safeties around the NFL who are perceived as worse players then Rhodes, and quite possibly are worse players then Rhodes, that would fare much better and have a bigger impact in this specific defense then Kerry,
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
Well...
He did leave plays out there on the field, he did shy away sometimes and sometimes it looked like his effort wasn’t there. However there was a noticeable improvement towards the end, even with the Sand Diego fumble, chest beat.
That because (to me) he had to show other teams out there he could still play. He was auditioning on a national stage. He dogged it for most of the season then played mediocre enough to get another job with somebody else. I don’t think he wants to be here at all.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
What a debate! I love this.
I don’t think anyone has the right to say someone is not motivated or doesn’t want to be here.
Anyways,
Keep Kerry Rhodes. He is still young and has years on his contract, let’s hope he becomes the ’’centerfielder’’ most fans want.
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Rex said he wasnt motivated; hence the benching.
Rhodes said on SNY that team wanted him back but he wasnt sure and wanted to talk to Rex some more. Seems like he doesnt want to be here to me.
that doesn’t mean he still is not motivated.
who knows what the conversation was about?
Did he beg Rex to stay?
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by Max Strauss on Feb 27, 2010 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
At one point both Rex and Mike T stated publicly that they wanted Rhodes back, while Kerri hemmed and hawed and said further discussion was needed.
Okay.
I don’t know.
Where’d you hear this?
Link of article please.
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by Max Strauss on Feb 27, 2010 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
It was on SNY and in the papers. We all talked about it way back when the season ended. Shouldnt be hard to find.
looking forward to a link.
but it’s all good
I hope he remains.
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by Max Strauss on Feb 27, 2010 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
Come on Max.
It seems like your solution to every position is to keep whatever guy we have and hope he becomes more then a mediocre to slightly above average player. Rhodes was definitely noncommittal on the wheelhouse about coming back. Usually even if guys hate it somewhere they give the cliche answer about how they want to spent their career in (insert city here). Rhodes didn’t. He danced around the question and never said he wanted to be back. I don’t think he was a bad safety, but certainly nothing close to good, perhaps in the middle of the pack, and I just don’t think he is a fit with Rex. He isn’t athletic and he doesn’t like to hit.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
yeah I guess the link was ridiculous.
If the Jets could pick up a free safety or corner and a draft pick, I would be all for it.
But to add another hole to this defense…I am going to fight not to have it happen.
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by Max Strauss on Feb 28, 2010 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
1) Keep him exactly where he is
2) It would depend on the offer, but if it didn’t close up another hole, no reason to do it.
3) Correct, it’s not. No way does a trade with TJ for Cromartie work, I’m not even sure that doesn’t add depth rather than closes one hole plus opens another.
If I were running the Jets (and I’m sure the majority of folks here would agree that wouldn’t be a good thing), there’s no reason for addition by subtraction. Washington will be back, Jenkins will be back, Sanchez will have a full year under his belt. Draft for the biggest needs and keep everybody else.
Go Jets
Go Devils
Rhodes
While I agree with most of your points guys, I don’t think we should do anything that adds holes. At the same time, having Rhodes as the starter is a hole in itself in most cases. As far as I am concerned yes it is a past-first league now, but still u need great safety play as far as the run and run after the catch. I watched all of at least 14 or 15 Jets games this year, and too many times, I saw Rhodes make a “business decision” instead of sticking his nose in there and at least making a tackle, if not a potential big play. Do we really want a player like that on our team, look at the teams in the superbowl this year. They had great safety play in both the run and pass. We are in the AFC, meaning we have to face at least 2 or 3 great QB’s to get through the playoffs every year. Regardless of how great our D is, there will be completed passes against us. Do we want a guy at FS that will hit, cover, and not dog plays, or do we want a guy in there with good range, and will play the run, as well as run after the catch, with as much heart as he tries to defend the pass. Or do we want a guy like Rhodes who is too concerned about hurting his “pretty boy” face and doesn’t want to risk his looks, therefore, instead of putting his all into tackling a ball-carrier, will pull up and make a “business decision.” I’m not saying we should just cut him, or trade him for nothing, but if he isn’t going to put his all into this team and game, then we need to get the highest value we can for him and part ways. E. Smith may not be a starter, but at least he will try to make every tackle he can, unlike Rhodes……
by Revis24 on Feb 28, 2010 10:29 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
So..what do you do with Rhodes?
If we sign Rolle, trade him…but…what if we can’t. Is it worth giving up a pick for him? What value?
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by Max Strauss on Feb 28, 2010 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly, I think we should try to get Betha from the Colts.(I believe he’s a free agent, or maybe Rolle) But, here is what I would try, maybe trade Gholston and Rhodes to the Raiders for Asomuagha and a pick maybe? Or work out something with the browns, maybe Mangina will be able to convince holmgren to take him for a 2nd or 3rd, honestly with how deep this draft is a pick would be better than just a player, in my opinion, unless we can get a pass rusher or a solid #2 corner. maybe loop Rhodes in with a trade for a pick so we can get earl thomas or sergio Kindle, I honestly like McCourty out of Rutgers, I think he’ll be there in the 2nd round for us, but I’d try to trade Rhodes for a pick or to trade our 1st and rhodes to trade up and get Sergio McKindle out of Texas.
I dont think anybody is going to take Gholston unfortunately. He has a big contract and produces nothing. And i think the depth of the draft actually works against us. Why part with the pick when you can get good talent relatively cheaply?
Might be able to separate a 3rd for Rhodes; he’s probably more valuable (and obviously proven) than any 3rd rounder. But thats even kind of wishful.
Another Note
I think that if we were to try to get Kindle or a pass rusher/OLB like him or Graham. Worst case situation we get a good pass rusher or OLB, Best case situation we get a good OLB, and in doing so, it lites a fire in Gholston, and he finally lives up to expectations. Can u imagine everyone, if Gholston, lives up to his expectations (finally) and we had someone like Kindle or Graham out of Michigan on the other side, we would have a crazy pass rush. I mean honestly, look at the Giants in Superbowl 42, the Pats had the greatest passing game in the league that year or most years, and even with the middle of the pack secondary of the giants that year, the Giants still dominated the pats. I agree with not creating any long-term holes, but if we had a good or great pass rush without having to send more than 4 or 5 guys at the QB we wouldnt miss Rhodes, or be sorry about not having a great #2 corner
Plus to add to what I said before, I think that having a safety that doesn’t want to hit, or that dogs a lot of plays with a lot of talent, is worse than having a safety that doesn’t have as much talent, but puts everything he has into every play. I m5ear it was though, but he had a chance to hit a ball-carrier and take him down, and instead he pulled up, didn’t hit the guy, and the guy went for another 5-10 yards down the field. Do we really want a player like that on our team? Even with the fact that he does have great talent? I know I don’t, if u dont give it ur all every play, then as far as I’m concerned, it doesn’t matter how much talent u have, also consider the fact that his “hollywood” or diva attitude is eventually going to hurt the locker room. I mean look at the Favre situtation with Favre and TJ
yeah I agree Crackback, I was just having wishful thinking about trading Gholston, but maybe Al Davis would be dumb enough to take him. Or we keep Gholston, draft another OLB, and then the new OLB’s presence puts a fire under Gholston’s ass, he realizes this is his last chance and again best case scenario Gholston becomes great (like he should’ve been) and we get 2 great OLB’s/pass rushers.
I would try to trade Rhodes, before we sign Rolle though. again having a safety that won’t hit out there, we might as well have a rookie, or no one out there, just 10 defenders….lolz
Cant agree there. I think you lock up Rolle first. If worst comes to worst and we can’t unload Rhodes in a trade, we can try Rolle at corner (where we was a top 10 draft pick), or make Rhodes a backup which would give us incredible depth, or just cut Rhodes if we have to.
@crackback
yeah sorry I wrote that wrong, I meant sign Rolle first (was exhausted last night). I think Rolle would be a great replacement, he seems very aware, rangy, a good cover guy, and a great hitter, from the games I’ve seen. Honestly if it was Rhodes circa 2007, I wouldn’t even consider getting rid of him, but I think those days are over. He got caught up in Hollywood, but really the thing I worry about most isn’t even that he is scared to hit people now, and doesn’t focus. What really scares me about him now is him potentially and very likely becoming a locker-room cancer, and we really don’t need that with the young core we have. I think we should lose him either way, E smith can hold us for a year, try to sign rolle, if not then draft Chad Jones, or Myron Rolle, I think that the smarter a safety is the better, and Rolle is a Rhodes scholar so his potential depending on how fast and rangy he is would be amazing correct me if Im wrong
don’t get me wrong I don’t want to have E smith as the starter, if we can avoid it, but at least he isn’t scared to stick his nose in there and hit people.
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