#2 : Your Trading Up Debate.
by Max Strauss on Feb 24, 2010 3:47 PM EST
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PrintTo introduce you to the situation, this draft has loads of depth because of the rookie imposed salary cap that's planning to hit the NFL in the next years. Players from Ndamukong Suh (a household name hopefully) to Tyson Alualu or Cam Thomas. This draft is going to be exciting. Is there anyone who really knows the depths these teams can grab in the seventh round with underclassmen.
I'd like to start with a quote by none other than Rex Ryan said in a pre-game press conference, something along the lines of == Talents like Mario Williams only arrive in the NFL once every twenty years, and I would have taken Williams over Bush too.
I love seeing pre-draft day trades and trades on the draft day, making me more entertained. I personally feel when teams don't trade up or down, they're hurting themselves. To see teams wait for players, I figure what's the point? After all the draft is to build, and you build by getting the players you believe will fit your system. When teams trade up, it's saying we know he'll have impact and it should help the team's future (more or less) immediately.
Some facts to throw out: The last time the Jets traded up for a first round pick was to get in the top 5 and secure Sanchez. The time before was to trade up and grab Mr. Manhattan (aka Darrelle Revis). I do realize that the trading up to get Dewayne Robertson turned out not to be as beneficial as we wanted. One of the biggest busts in recent history was when we didn't trade up or down, we took what we thought would be given to us, Vernon Gholston.
To get the franchise QB, Sanchez at the fifth overall pick, the Jets gave up 1st round pick, 2nd round pick, Abraham Elam, Brett Ratliff, and Kenyon Coleman.
Is it worth getting a franchise pass defensive linemen this year or even Joe Haden?
So here's the debate I'm having, most mocks have the top 5 appearing with some of these names.
[In no particular order]
/ Ndamukong Suh /
/ Gerald McCoy /
/ Eric Berry /
/ Russell Okung /
/ Jimmy Clausen /
/ Jason Pierre-Paul /
/ Trent Williams /
/ Sam Bradford /
/ Joe Haden /
[Again, in no particular order]
Of these listed, it has been such a long time to see 2 QBs, 2 OLs, 3DLs, and 2 Secondary.
I realize it is more than 5 picks but I gathered what I thought could have top 5 potential.
Defensive Line seems to be a strength in depth in this draft. I love the talent that the D-linemen showcase so far. One of the Jets biggest needs is an edge pass rusher. One like Cameron Wake.
I saw that teams want to trade down, actually all top 4 teams want to trade down. Each have pretty valuable reasons, I highly doubt though that four teams can really trade down to the top four picks. It's an impressive draft class, not that impressive, and if it was, they wouldn't be trading down, would they?
Here's the situation: You call all of the shots in trading draft picks with New York Jets front office, I have three questions for you.
1) Do you want the New York Jets trading up to a top 5 pick?
2) Who would you pick?
3) What talent would you trade away? (please be realistic)
Past debates:
#5 : http://www.ganggreennation.com/2010/2/28/1330216/5-your-needs-and-situations-debate
#4 : http://www.ganggreennation.com/2010/2/27/1329167/4-your-tj-workhorse-debate
#3 : http://www.ganggreennation.com/2010/2/26/1328528/3-your-rhodes-situation-debate
#2 : http://www.ganggreennation.com/2010/2/24/1324927/my-trading-up-debate
#1 : http://www.ganggreennation.com/2010/2/23/1323775/my-brandon-marshall-debate
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theres no chance of us trading into the top 5 unless we give away an indispensable player like revis, harris, etc and we are obviously not going to do that. we dont have the quality or quantity of picks in this draft to work out another blockbuster trade on draft day. i would like it if we traded up to top 15 because as you said this draft class is deep and we could get talent at that point in the draft that would be top 10 or top 5 talent in other drafts. i see a big drop off after the 20th pick or so and i would like to see us trade up and nab a big time impact player that we can add to our core.
and i think joe haden is exactly the type of player worth trading up for. he had a sensational college career and every analyst has him as the clear top corner in the draft. i would easily give up our first 2 picks to draft him early.
+1
Everything Ive read has Haden as the sure-shot corner, and the next what seems like ten CBs are very close in over-all talent.
I think Haden is a top 5 guy.
I would love him in a Jets uniform…not going to lie.
But what would it take to land him?
Plus to trade up, I think he’d have to give up one great interview and combine to the Jets exclusively. lol.
That’s why I ask, is anyone worth trading up?
What do you think would have to be given up to get him?
Imagine him in Oakland with 7,
Hmm…Asomugha and Haden.
Thanks.
As a Florida fan, I love the GATORS.
However, I don’t know about risks on Gators, haha…Leaf…Grossman…
I would not want to see Haden in a Bills uniform, but then again, I don’t know where I want to see him. I don’t know if you can say he was in the class with Darrelle Revis and Leon Hall.
It’s tough.
so, what do you think we'd have to give up?
If you want to give up anything for any talent. (i.e. If you think Haden)
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i would not go that high . trade up if at all #13 or 14 grab earl thomas . i think this guy can play corner or SS.
the guy has sick ball skills . and you wouldnt have 2 give up the farm.
so you’re impressed enough with anyone to trade up?
I don’t see this name in first round mocks, I’ve heard the name before.
I know he’s a talent, he could be available at 29..
I don’t think staying put would be best interests anymore, but I don’t know.
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i promise u there is no way in hell this guy dont go in the top 20. hes flying up most boards.
the difference between him and eric berry is not much.
People have him going in the teens.
Possibly to the Seahawks to reunite with Carroll.
I don’t know where Earl Thomas will go..
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Yes.
It will be interesting to see where he lands, especially since he was supposed to be the up there with Berry and now Berry is over him and Thomas may become.
So you would trade up and get Thomas?
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I would give up our 29th plus Rhodes for Berry.
I admit much of it has to do with the fact that im a Rhodes-hater.
Interesting, Your call.
What pick do you see the Jets landing Berry at then?
Is it realistic that it’s the only pick and player?
He’s definitley going top 10 to state the obvious, but I ahve no idea where. Most mocks ive seen have him going to Tampa.
Admittedly its a stretch, but Rhodes is a good young player and he IS coupled with another first round pick. Maybe throw in next year’s 3rd or something to sweeten the pot.
Okay,
I don’t know , yes it’s a need, so, if that trade happened, you would prefer Berry over Haden.
I don’t know, it’s like trading a decent FS for another potentially great FS, but then you still have gaps at the other CB and the pass rush.
My thinking is if he IS the next Ed Reed, Im willing to let those holes remain unfilled for now. Whereas Tampa might want to get better right now instead of waiting for Berry’s greatness to materialize.
Okay, sounds interesting.
Why not just trade for Ed Reed? He is 30 and coming off an injury.
But, maybe less valued if Rhodes was involved.
-Max Strauss-
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Could he be worth it?
After all, he is the comparison you’re talking about.
And, maybe he stays in more of situational role with Eric Smith coming in on plays and Ed Reed taking plays off.
So, trading for Berry..hmm, not addressing needs and just upgrading a position, yes it’s an upgrade, but if Berry was talked about becoming a corner..that could be interesting, but I haven’t heard that yet.
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I actually HAVE heard some things about that
However I don’t know if it’s just speculation from random people on the internet or if actual experts have made such comments. But it is something to keep in mind.
You know what, I never even thought of that
…but if he doesn’t retire I seriously doubt that the Ravens would trade him for anything or if they would trade him it would be for too steep a price.
Yeah, I know what you mean.
Let’s see,
I definitely see some big impact this offseason, like all the Jets offseasons, and whether it be something we boo about or cheer about, something Big is bound to happen again, and I would like it to happen again.
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by Max Strauss on Feb 25, 2010 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
I would absolutely not trade up for a top 5 pick. It cost way too much and the Jets lack depth. So I oppose having only 2 or 3 draft day selections.
I’d really like to have Odrick at 29. If that doesn’t happen I’d like to trade down 10 picks or so and try to get a late second or third round pick too and take McCourty or Cox. If we choose Odrick then I’d look to try and trade up and secure McCourty or Cox.
Players I’d look to trade. Brad Smith. TJ. Any depth/backup OL/WR/TE. Gholston if Al Davis wants him lol. Bryan Thomas perhaps.
Like above if Ed Reed loves Rex and would play another 2-3 years I could see a Rhodes and a little more for Ed Reed. Baltimore probably doesnt want to lose him for nothing.
To secure McCourty/Cox
I understand.
I don’t know if I would trade up or not.
But I like that plan, but, what would you have to give up to secure McCourty and Cox.
I mean it’s the second round, so, talking about switching 2nd, and then giving them a 4th, 5th, and 6th?
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I dont know. I would hope someone would give us a 3rd or 4th round equivalent for Brad Smith. He has value as a returner, slot receiver, and wild card runner. Its hard to speculate what it would cost because the combine hasnt arrived yet, and it depends when the plethora of corners starts. If its late first versus early to mid 2nd round the cost will be different.
I’d say a 2nd plus at least Brad Smith and probably a 4th or 5th.
if this was to happen it would be a dangerous trend.
jets lack depth. you cant keep giving away your draft. your 1 injury away from having a guy on the field that has no business being there.if not 4 the depth at the RB position. there is no playoff run in 09. TRADE BACK
so..
no draft pick trades this year?
Look at how beneficial Sanchez and Revis have been (two major draft trades)
And Vernon Gholston we did not trade up or down…hm
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there is no wrong in trading up or down. but! if you trade up every year how do you have back ups that are worthy?
we all no every year there is a injury at a key spot .this year lucky 4 the jets those came at spots were the jets had a good back up.
so…what do you do in this draft
1st
2nd
4th
6th
7th
lot of depth in talent this year with possible UDFAs,
It’s possible an earlier 2nd round could get a better player on the field to make impact.
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im just saying for the reasons you stated it might be a good year to trade back
or stand pat . because of it being a deep draft the smart teams a stocking up. i.e. the pats. and others will try 2 do the same .
Berry Can Play Corner, too
Kind of like what Namdi did.
But I think to draft up in this draft would be a terrible idea. The Jets need to build behind their roster this year, and this is the best possible year to do it. No free agents, really deep draft. I would like to just pick in our slot to be honest. I don’t want to trade down too much but trading up I think is out of the question.
So,
Okay interesting.
So, keep the current picks.
And see what happens,
I don’t see Rex Ryan allowing that, (maybe in the late rounds)
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define: +1 in this situation.
Would you give up the first round for a 3rd, 4th, and 7th. I would. This draft is so deep.
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by Max Strauss on Feb 25, 2010 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
Would you trade up?
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by Max Strauss on Feb 25, 2010 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
Depends on what we’re giving and what we’re getting. I’d trade down but it would have to involve us gettinga 2nd plus a player/pick. Or might trade a first for an elite player (Nnamdi).
1st round picks you expect returns. 4ths and 7ths youre hoping to catch lightning in a bottle. Good value in the 3rd this year though.
Nnamdi won’t be just for a 1st. I would give up a fifth for early-mid 2nd, 4th, 5th.
He’s not coming off a major injury, in fact it’s back to back pro bowl seasons and phenomenal ones too.
This year there is deep value until the fourth round and fifth round player potentials.
Some WRs and DTs look like impact players in the fourth and fifth.
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Look, we took 3 players home last year. You continue to do that, you end up filling the back end of your roster with undrafted FA’s and you begin to lack depth. All of a sudden, you lose a player to FA, Injury, returement, whatever, and theres nothing left. Trading up is a huge “football” risk as well as a financial risk.
You trade up for a Joe Hayden, or a Suh, or a McCoy, and they bust, or get hurt, or holdout, or whatever, you set your whole team back. Because not only are you missing on that player’s production, you have to consider the opportunity cost of the situation (ECON major terminology lol). You lost the picks that could ahve also turned into productive players.
Now consider the financial risks. If you want a top 10 pick every year, you have to PAY him like top 10 pick every year. Noone knows tha salary cap situation, but NO franchise can pay that much money every year. its impossible, youll ruin your franchise. Plain and simple.
Its not like Rex Ryan is going to recklessly just trade up like some crazy person. I could easily see him trading down. It depends on the situation and what Mike T wants to do.
You are probably thinking to yourself “But Eric Berry and Suh and McCoy are can’t misses!! Joe Hayden is going to be a great player, no doubt!” So was Reggie Bush. So was Akili Smith. So was Robert Gallery. So was Glen Dorsey, or Vernon Gohlston. And of course, so was the infamous Ryan Leaf, who some people actually thought was BETTER than Peyton Manning.
Every year, someone just gets unlucky with a bust. Thats probably the best way to explain it, since noone can really figure out exactly why Vernon sucks, or Ryan Leaf blew it. Some guys just don’t work out.
So, this being one of the deepest drafts in a long time, mostly because of the inevatable rookie wage scale coming soon, this is the single BEST opportunity to build depth in long time. No Free agents, got the QB, RB, WRs, Defensive parts, etc. Do we want the Jets to be one and done? Or does a decade-long dynasty sound nice?
so, I see you're highly against trading up.
It seems you would like to gain more picks.
How would we do that?
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by Max Strauss on Feb 24, 2010 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
not necessairly gain more picks
just dont trade up and lose em. id dont really like trading down, and in most cases, i all for being agressive. But the Jets are in the kind of situation where depth is the key right now, and this draft presents a great opportunity to do that. I say unless theres a steal out there we can go after, I kinda feel like coming home with at least 5-6 players.
by Ryan Alfieri on Feb 24, 2010 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
so, maintain the picks
trade any players for draft choices? Hmm…
A combination of anything?
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by Max Strauss on Feb 24, 2010 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty much agree with you
Although I remember from an earlier post that a surprisingly high percentage of our starters were UDFA’s. That’s a market that shouldn’t be ignored.
i dont think we should trade anyone. i honestly havent gottent that in depth to the draft THAT uch just yet lol
okay.
I’ll post a similar story in the future after the combine and such.
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by Max Strauss on Feb 24, 2010 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
trading up and down
If this draft is so deep, we try and trade up from 6th and 7th picks and down from 1st and 2nd to get more 2nd,3rd and 4th round picks. Then there’s more of a chance of getting starter and star caliber players and we can address our lack of depth.
So, no trade downs to get more picks.
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by Max Strauss on Feb 27, 2010 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
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