Scouting The Draft: Taylor Mays, S, USC
by David_Wyatt on Feb 1, 2010 5:28 AM EST
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I wasn't planning on looking at Taylor Mays today yet, but after reading some comments in the Graham report it got me thinking about Mays, and so I started looking at some film on him early, and my opinion on him hasn't really wavered. He has a few good attributes with a lot more questions. I agree that they can be ironed out, I just don't think we need to be the ones who do it. We will look at whether we think Kerry Rhodes will be here next year, and obviously the position of the team dramatically shifts if he is not here, but at the same time, I still don't think that selecting Mays will be the intelligent choice for a team two years removed from a draft bust. One that had great physical attributes but less than impressive football instincts. He came with warning signs and was very much a risk/reward type selection, and that's exactly how I see Mays.
Coming into this week I was very open to Mays, I wasn't impressed with him when I watched USC games, but everyone seemed to be high on him, and I thought that there must be something to him. Perhaps the step back the USC defence took this year giving over 200 yards a game through the air took something away from the individual play of Mays. However watching individual drills, he just didn't look like a first round talent, the only thing that really separated him from 3rd/4th round safeties was his size and speed, but those are useless when you don't use them.
Sports Illustrated reported on Taylor Mays week of practise at the Senior Bowl:
Most Disappointing Player in Mobile
Taylor Mays/S/USC: For Mays the week turned into a potpourri of skills he's likely to struggle with in the NFL; he'll struggle handling man-to-man coverage assignments and struggle making plays sideline-to-sideline as a true NFL centerfielder. Mays is still a legitimate prospect for the next level but the limitations he displayed this week will reduce the number of teams wanting to acquire him in April.
Career State
2006- 13 games, 62 tackles, 3 PBU, 3 INT, 0 Sacks, 0 Forced Fumbles
2007- 13 games, 65 tackles, 6 PBU, 1 INT, 0 Sacks, 1 Forced Fumble
2008- 13 games, 53 tackles, 9 PBU, 0 INT, 0 Sacks, 0 Forced Fumble
2009- 12 games, 96 tackles, 3 PBU, 1 INT, 0 Sacks, 0 Forced Fumble
Career Achievements & Awards
- 3× First-team All-American (2007, 2008, 2009)
- 1× Second-team All-American (2006)
- 2× First-Team All-Pac-10 (2008, 2009)
More after the Jump
What does Taylor Mays do well?
With Taylor Mays, it's all about the size and the speed, rumoured to be able to run the 40 in close to 4.2 flat he displays lightning speed. He has Adrian Wilson type size, standing at 6'3, 230lb's he is a man mountain roaming the field. He can play up at the line and stuff the runner, very physical player who will put his head into you and put you on your back. He has excellent leaping ability, and will showcase this on jump balls in the end zone. Has played against very tough competition in college, has an excellent initial burst, and can run with anyone in coverage. Has fluid hips, and changes directions on a pin-point.
What does Taylor Mays need to improve on?
He hits hard but he sometimes leads with the shoulder where he should be wrapping up the tackler and bringing him down, can give up some extra yards after the catch. His coverage skills are very suspect and his angles to the ball are sometimes described as absolutely terrible. His recognition is suspect, and he is not a play maker. His work on the ball should be more for a guy with his range. He has the lightning speed but when his angles are as bad to the ball, he will struggle to utilise it as well as he should be able to. His man coverage is below par for a first round talent. He preoccupies himself with the big hit, can over pursue and often plays too quickly. has very average hands, and will require a lot of coaching if he wants to make an Adrian Wilson type impact. Not a big game player, has 11 tackles and not much else in four bowl games with USC.
Highlights
Check the routes to the ball he takes, especially on the 2nd BC touchdown. Number 2 will often come into screen squared on space instead of the ball carrier. Also can see moments where he tries to use his shoulder and should just wrap the tackler up.
He can be coached, and I will be happy to admit I was wrong, I just think he needs too much coaching for a guy coming out of a pro college like USC with 4 years experience. One of the few players I would truly be devastated with if we decided to take him. Kerry Rhodes is much better and in my personal opinion, always will be better.
Again check the routes to the ball he takes and some of the hits he goes for that gives up 3-4 extra yards when receivers spin from the shoulders
Gang Green Nation, Other Scouting Reports
Scouting The Draft: Brandon Graham, DE, Michigan
Scouting The Draft: Damian Williams, WR, USC
Scouting The Draft: Jared Odrick, DE, Penn State
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DO NOT WANT.
DANGER, MIKE TANNENBAUM, DANGER.
Unless we move him to OLB, or find a HELLUVA free safety opposite him so his coverage skills won’t be as much of a concern, sitting over the top of Revis.
But his complete and utter lack of coverage skills and his propensity for going for highlight-reel hits (often helmet-first, as well… that’s GOING to get called in the NFL) scares me, A LOT.
Besides, the whole drafting an athletic freak in hopes coaching up his actual player-skills sounds vaguely familiar, like it’s in a part of my mind that I’d like to forget from the not-too-distant past…..
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
I completely agree with you, he could come with a ‘Danger’ sign tagged around his neck.
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Kenny Loggins should be playing in the background whenever he steps onto the field.
For multiple reasons.
Will he blow a coverage? Will he miss a tackle? Will he destroy a receiver so thoroughly that their future children come out with learning disabilities?
NOBODY KNOWS!!!!
HIIIIGGGHHHWAYYYY TOOOOO THE DANGER ZONE!!!!!
We are gonna shock them with 5,000 mega watts of raw ROO POWER.
Penn State huh? Graduated 2009?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIFzcK9dqj8
Maybe this game is why you don’t like Taylor.
The funny thing is he got flagged for that play. Why? Because the guy saw him coming, when into a fetal position and got hit in the head?
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
Unless we lose Rhodes, I don’t think we need to focus on a S during the draft. We need a pass-rushing DE and CB. We need to get rid of Clemens move Ainge up or find a veteran back-up. The other needs can be handled by players cut from other teams or the FA market taking into account the stupid new rule.
I don't know.
Gholston lacks passion and/or intelligence; he almost refuses to make plays. Mays looks like a player. He can be coached up. If positioned properly, and under the right tutelage, he can be a great player. He flies to the ball and destroys it. You can’t teach 230 pds and 4.3 dash. He might have been coached to be hyper-aggressive at USC, knowing that they have a good team that can make up for mistakes, but would rather have him intimidating the hell out of everyone that crosses his path.
In our system we can hide him some. We lock Revis up on number one receivers, let Leonard read and react while playing deep, and let Mays destroy whatever comes near him. I see a potential Polamalu. Can we really pass that up if its available?
The only year he was taught to be aggressive was 2009, they actually used him conservatively and ‘hid’ him for the best part of three years. If you get frustrated with Rhodes (which you do) you will get absolutely infuriated with Mays, misses tackles, runs past the point of the tackle, will give you one big hit every game, and NFL players are not intimidated like these college kids.
Not only can we pass it up, we must pass it up.
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Oh and just as a point of note, I see around 5% Polamalu in this kid, not seen any of the scouts put that connection together at all. Polamalu has natural instincts for the ball, I just can’t see that in Mays.
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I trust ur judgment on this Dave. U know plenty more about him than I do. But his talent jumps off the screen. I can’t say i’d be disappointed if we grabbed him if he was available.
Exactly.
Stick him with Rex Ryan and I think we have a stud. If Mays would have left school after last season, we wouldn’t even be having the discussion of possibly grabbing him at 29. I don’t think it is a coincidence this guy has been tied to the Ravens.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
There are not many players that I genuinely am terrified of us picking, but he is one of them. Hopefully the Kerry Rhodes situation settles down and it’s not even an option.
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Let's look at Kerry though. This guy consistently got beaten in man coverage.
I don’t know about Rhodes angles to the ball, but whatever the case, he was late getting over more times then I want to remember. We act like Kerry is good playing the pass. How many times did Rhodes get to a WR too late, only going through the motions of putting a big hit on him. How many times does Rhodes come up and help with the run? Mays has more power, speed, size, and athleticism then Rhodes. He also is a willing hitter, which Rhodes isn’t. I mean, Rhodes really got beaten like a rented mule in pass coverage, up until about week 14. It’s not as if Kerry was a stud this year. How many times did Rhodes get burned by a TE or 3rd WR in a big spot. And I don’t once remember Kerry sticking his helmet in there and playing the run. Just because we missed on a high upside guy (that we reached for, a LOT), doesn’t mean we shouldn’t ever take a chance again. If Rhodes is gone, this makes perfect sense. I’d still prefer Kyle Wilson though.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
Kerry might be a little late getting there, but how many times have we seen Mays get there with there being the wrong place, and while Kerry getting there a little later may result in a 2-3 yard more yards than you would like, over shooting the player results in 20-40 yards more, look at that BC game, he completely blew it up and he went an extra 35 yards. Does nobody remember Kerry shutting Tony Gonzalez down, have you seen Mays try to play man coverage?? it gives me nightmares. Mays is not the second coming of Wilson, he is a big guy who makes a ton of mistakes. Let’s not have a knee jerk reaction here to Kerry not putting his head into players. Mays does that sometimes, it’s not like he is laying them out everytime (a lot of the time he is too far away to touch them). Kerry showed that he is one hell of a player, he had a down year this year, but when he had a fire lit under him he started to look like the player of old, let’s give that a chance before blowing a pick who has a 50-50 chance of being a good NFL player.
I don’t see how this pick makes any logical sense with Kerry still here, and if he is gone, then it would make more sense but IMO it would still be far too risky.
If you think Rhodes was bad in coverage, then you have to think that Mays is beyond terrible because that is one of his main weaknesses coming in, he has blistering speed but he is not a true centre fielder because his awareness and angles are so bad. He’s more suited to a linebacker playing the run than a safety IMO.
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Mays looks like he would be a great blitzer as well. I don’t know though. You both make great points. But i will say that I’d much rather a guy who plays over-aggressively and misses while occasionally making a big play than a guy who plays with a lack of aggression and misses.
If he was coming in as a linebacker, I would be more open to him, but a safety has to be able to cover, and his coverage skills are abysmal.
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Can we agree however that with Rhodes on the roster this would just not be a valuable pick for us.
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i agree with this. i’d prefer to keep rhodes and focus our attention to our other needs. i still think he’s an above average safety and it’s not worth using a draft pick trying to get a guy who may or may not be what kerry already is when we have other needs.
with that being said, if we do get rid of rhodes, then picking mays would become more than just a consideration
But can’t u put Leonard deep and put Mays in a SS position? Do you really think he can’t be coached up? If we can simplify his keys and either take him off the field in 3rd and long or blitz him most of the time, he might develop into a great player. If he slips, I don’t think we can pass on potential greatness.
Not saying he can’t be coached up, just saying that after being in a pro friendly system for 4 years at USC, and seeing him make the same mistakes he was his freshman year, maybe you can’t coach awareness. If he has potential greatness, then so do 25-30 players in this draft, he is a name with physical attributes, you get some of these guys, they come from a big school with a reputation in one department. Let’s see how he does on his pro day, he has already been shown up in individual drills this week and labelled as one of the biggest disappointments (not sure if you caught any of the action on NFL network but he was getting beat by 4-5th round receivers) Doing that takes Leonard out his comfort zone and weakens us at the other position, would have a rookie who is dodgy in coverage and a safety out of position in Leonard, not to mention having to fill the other corner spot, that would be disastrous to our secondary this coming season.
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Good discussion going here.
For me, I just can’t get over that upside that late in the first round. If we had other positions of need or were picking sooner, it would be different, but the upside in Mays is simply fantastic. Even if they picked him and missed completely, it wouldn’t be a crippling miss. The only way this kills us is if we pass Wilson, pick Mays, and he busts while Wilson becomes a productive player. Again, I understand your hesitance, but if Wilson/Robinson are gone, and Mays is there at 29, this becomes a gamble I am very willing to take, adding Mays in to an already top notch defense, with a coach who is pretty much sure to get the most possible production from Mays.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
Unless Rhodes is traded this would be terrible, we need someone who is going to help us now, Mays is 2-3 years away from being a starting safety IMO. If Rhodes goes then maybe the risk is worth taking, but 5-10 players at positions of need for us are going to have to be gone before you sell me on Mays
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I think Roy Williams is the comparison more than Polamalu at this point.
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Started looking at Golden Tate videos and first one I thought I would check is the 2009 USC one in South Bend, and on the Tate TD, Mays is not only late getting over, but he goes for the hit on Tate instead of making a play on the ball, result equalled a TD and hit getting a little shot at him moving into the endzone. With his height and his vertical, he should be going up and taking that ball or at the least knocking it away. On his second TD it was a nice move inside, but again Mays doesn’t wrap, goes for the big hit, Tate takes it and stumbles backwards a few yards for the score.
To Quote Remember The Titans
“You can’t run over everybody in this league”, he is going to need to learn that.
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No. Roy Williams is slower then hell.
Mays would immediately be one of the fastest safeties in the NFL. Mays has the physical tools to cover guys one on one, just not the actual experience doing it. Williams could be the smartest guy in the NFL and he can’t cover any WR because he is too slow. I see the late Sean Taylor when I look at Taylor Mays. Awareness is developed over time, speed isn’t. This guy can run, hit, jump, all that stuff. He is just raw. I won’t argue that. The idea of putting him in our mega aggressive defense with Coach Ryan to mold him makes me salivate.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
+1
What kills me about Rhodes is that he’s had an entire season to demonstrate his ability and at his best he’s been very solid, but he hasn’t been an impact guy. Mays looks like he has the upside to be a great great player if surrounded by quality veteran leadership (Revis, Harris, Scott), good coaching and a system that can maximize his talent. I agree that he can be a Sean Taylor type, or dare I say… Ronnie Lott if he gets near his full potential.
you could have said the same for Vernon Gholston
by secret defense on Feb 2, 2010 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
So you dont draft a Sanchez, Greene, Mangold, Ferguson or anybody bc Gholston might be a bust? Theres risk with everybody. But some guys have special talent. A 230 pd safety that runs a 4.3 and loves to hit comes along once in a generation. I think you gamble on the guy and hope he’s driven and coachable. Make him copy Revis for year one. Wake up when Revis wakes up. Eat what Revis eats. Go with Revis to film study. Carry Revis’ notebook. Do what that guy does and you’ll at least be pointed in the right direction. And then have guys like Leonard there to answer questions, and have guys like Harris and Scott and Jenkins to watch during practice. Its hard to slack when you see guys like that putting in the work.
Guys like Gholston have to try to fail. You can’t have that kind of talent, while playing in this system, while watching all-pro guys go after it every day and just mail it in unless you just don’t care.
If you like football and want to be good, and you have talent, theres no way you can fail playing in Rex Ryan’s system.
+1
I understand where the skepticism comes, but this guy is a freak. Sure, are there plays when he goes for a big hit instead of making a play on the ball, yeah. Are there times he misses tackles because he doesn’t wrap up? Yup. This can all be fixed though, especially by Rex, and the important thing to me is that he has a nose for the ball. The way he plays fits so perfectly with the way the Jets play defense.
Man, I can just picture it now, Randy Moss runs a skinny post, Brady threads it in and Mays takes his fucking head off. That also brings a whole intimidation factor with it. There were a couple times in the playoffs where guys dropped passes over the middle because Bart Scott was on his way to clean somebodies clock. Rhodes doesn’t bring that fear factor that is so important to our defense. Mays can cover sideline to sideline, even if right now he doesn’t have the experience to do so effectively, he has the speed to do it. He has the size to cover tight ends. He has the speed to close on the ball. He loves getting his helmet in there.
Like Crackback said, this is the 29th pick here. There isn’t going to be a sure thing. There may be safer picks, but I don’t think there are any with bigger upside here. Odrick is safe, but how much will he impact playing the 3-4 DE? Williams may be a safe number 3, but is he worth it there? How much better can he get? Golden Tate is intriguing, but he is a 5’11 guy who will probably end up playing the slot. There is risk anywhere we go. We could take Graham, another 4-3 DE and try to move him to OLB, but how did that work out last time?
Again, I still like Kyle Wilson. If he is there at 29, I want him, but if he isn’t, I want me some Taylor Mays.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
Of course there's risk with everyone
but the guys you mention all were very productive in college. Heck even Gholston put up big numbers there. I’m just saying that there’s much more to a football player at the NFL level than his measurables. To go back to my Al Davis point, Darrius Heyward Bey had blazing speed and great size but wasn’t very productive in college and is so far a bust. Likewise, there are a lot of holes in Mays’ game and for a 4 year starter it shows that his deficiencies are more than due to a lack of coaching.
by secret defense on Feb 2, 2010 1:04 AM EST up reply actions
So Mays wasn't productive in college?
The fact that he was a 4 year starter at USC, the last 3 years winning first team all American honors seems to say otherwise. Darrius Heyward-Bey isn’t productive because the Raiders are simply horrendous, with one of the worst O-Lines and probably the worst QB in the league. Really though, the whole point of your post is wrong, because Mays was extremely productive at USC.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
I agree with nrmax88. Heywod-Bey can't be called a bust.
The Raiders had a bad o-line and a terrible QB. What receiver is going to perform i nthat situation. Moss was terrible while he was there, then had the best year of his career when he went to NE.
All i know is that when you see a back turn the corner on what looks like is going to be a 10+ yard gain, and then a blur streaks by and the RB is tackled for little or no gain, you have to widen the eye-lids a bit. Very few players in this game are capable of making the plays this kid can make. And very few can have the impact that this kid could have. I understand that there will be the Vernon Gholstons and Blair Thomases, but there are also Ed Reeds ans Troy Palamalus and Ronnie Lotts. Im not saying this kid is that good. But he can be. Most guys don’t have that type of ability. You have to grab the freaks when they present themselves.
Anyone can run in shorts, Mays is fast but don’t expect to see 4.2 speed on the field, he plays a lot slower than he times, and like I have said before, speed is useless when you are constantly over running the plays. I’m not willing to over look what I have seen on the field over the past 4 years, for what he does in shorts with a stop watch. That’s how you end with a athlete and not a football player. People are talking like these things are going to be ironed out in one off-season, what I’m saying is that they have been trying to iron out these problems at USC for the best part of 3 years, and like I showed in the highlights above, he refuses to learn, Rex is a great guy and a great coach, but it has to be a two way road, and if Mays is not willing to learn he doesn’t have a future as a safety in the NFL. I think people are getting a little bit too caught up on his intangibles and now his football:
He has good height- He needs to use it, he looks for the hit and doesn’t play the ball, should of had 5-6 more interceptions last year, but he prefers to hit people even if that means them putting 7 points on the board, now call me stupid if you like, but I would rather a safety wrap him up at the 10 than hit him at the 5 and the receiver backs into the end zone for the score, ala Golden Tate.
He has good speed- He plays slower than he times and when he does use his speed he over pursues, his speed+ bad angles to the ball mean that he takes himself completely out of the play, he can’t cover man to man, everyone saw it at USC, and in one-on-one drills this week he was pretty terrible, and that was why he was named biggest disappointment.
He hits hard Very true, when he actually gets to the football. However he cares more about making himself look good laying someone out than doing what is best for the team. These hard hits come once or twice a game, and if you don’t wrap up in the NFL the backs are not going down. You think his shoulder challenges would put Greene on his back? not a chance, he would plough through him stay on his feet and take it to the house.
We are talking about teaching this kid, fundamentals of playing the safety position, and the argument for him is he was a 4 year starter at USC, that also counts against him, he was a 4 year starter and he is little very raw at his position.
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come over to stampedeblue and continue to talk some trash plz
by suns_all_the_way on Feb 2, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
Who's talking trash?
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perhaps productive wasn't the right word
DW echoed my sentiments perfectly in that I think he is the type of athlete like Gholston and Heyward-Bey who has a ton of physical tools but lack the instincts and football skills to succeed at the NFL level. In college you can get by with physical tools but the lack of fundamental football skills and instincts will be exposed in the NFL. As for Heyward-Bey yes their offense was terrible due to Russell but even when Gradkowski was starting he still didn’t do anything, whereas their other rookie receiver Murphy was much more productive.
by secret defense on Feb 2, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Everyone has a bust potential, but the difference there is they are came in with the football skills for their position, Sanchez was good at reading coverages, he saw the field well, he could throw on the run, he had a decent arm, he could make every throw in the book. Greene was a strong back who kept the ball away from contact, who noticed the holes and had a great initial burst, he had the power in the legs to keep driving. Mangold held the point of attack, recognised blitzes, had good feet, and got a great push off the ball, pretty much the same for Ferguson. These were all fundamentally sound football players coming in. Gholston was an athlete with great physical attributes who had questions over his football skills, Mays is exactly the same, physical attributes with questions about his football skills. People said that you could teach Gholston to use his hands to get off blocks, you could teach that desire, you could teach him to recognise coverages etc etc etc
There is risk’s with every single player that comes into the league, but you can be clever on what you base your selection on, a football player or an athlete. That’s where I see the massive difference between players like Sanchez/Greene/Mangold/Ferguson/Revis and players like Ghiolston and Mays.
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We took Gholston in the top 10 though.
This is 29. Again, it it is Kyle Wilson or Patrick Robinson, that is who I want. But I am not interested in taking a first round player like Tate, Williams, Odrick who even if they are what we hope, the first 2 are probably slot WR’s and Odrick is probably a 3-4 DE who has a minimal impact on the game anyway. The upside is too huge for me to ignore. And even if he is a total and complete bust, it’s only a safety that busted at the 29th pick. Not anything crippling. I still think he is a stud.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
It also means we have to spend next years pick on an actual area of need. Safety is not an area of need, it’s throwing money down a rat hole, it makes no logical sense unless Kerry Rhodes is moved.
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Also I don’t think you can use the he will be #29 as an excuse…with the new free agent regulations, and with us looking to be contenders every season, drafting well becomes even more important than it has been in the past. In a draft where we have just two picks in the first four rounds, it just isn’t logical. There are some players in this draft I don’t want to see us take like Robinson, but can see the logic behind the selection, I just don’t see it here.
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Well, yeah, I am going under the assumption that Rhodes
is out if we are picking Mays. Doesn’t make sense otherwise. If Rhodes isn’t here, it is totally logical. Of course it would be silly to draft Mays and also retain Rhodes. As much as we have discussed this, I think it is moot, because I would be surprised if Mays is even still there at 29, I think some other defensive coach will see the raw talent and grab him before he gets to 29, for better or for worse. I only mentioned top 10 because when you pick top 10 you have much more pressure to hit because A) you are picking higher, expectations for a stud are higher, and because B) you are paying a lot more for the number 6 pick then the number 29. It is far more crippling financially to miss with the 6 pick. I just think at 29, there is a lot of risk wherever you go. Teams have first round missed all the time, it is part of the draft process, and I like the risk reward situation here.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
I think there are players in this draft who have as much reward if not more than Mays with a lot less risk. That makes sense to me. When senile Al Davis takes Mays off the board in the top 10, you will hear a huge sigh of relief coming from me. I don’t think he reaches #‘29 either, and for that I’m eternally thankful.
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I'd rather trade our pick to Al Davis for more picks
he probably loves players with this kind of measurables.
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