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Ask the Pulpit!

The Patriots get to try for revenge on Monday at the Razor. The Patriots have the league's best offense, but also feature one of the league's worst defenses.

This game should decide who has the inside lane as the season reaches its close. The Patriots need to win this game to win the division. The Jets need to win this to put away the Patriots' hope of winning the division.

Should be a great game. Any questions? Fire away!

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I was thinking of adding it here, because we seem to be getting along with the fans here.

Let the questions begin!

I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP

These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick

I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!

by patriotguy2 on Dec 1, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Do you think the Pats offense will be able to score 30+ points on the Jets defense?

What’s the key to the Pats O being succesful against the Jets D (running game, TE involvement, etc)?

What do you think is the key for the Pats D to stifling the Jets O?

by Crackback on Dec 1, 2010 1:45 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Personally, I do believe it's possible but not likely that we put up more than 31 points.

The keys will be keeping Brady clean, and the receivers have to get that initial separation. I believe that you guys will at one point play the blitz with press coverage. We have to be able to get separation and make the tough catches. This will most likely come down to the tight ends. It will be interesting to see how the jets try to attack both gronk and herndo. I compare them to jason witten and dallas clark in their styles and size. Gronk can outrun linebackers (except harris) and is bigger than anyone except your d-line (6-6).

For defense, stop the run first, make sanchez beat us. If you run, we get caught in the PA, and it’s over. Then up the middle of the defense. You guys have a very good o-line, but the guards seem to be the weakness. Big vince and the DE need to pressure on the inside and force sanchez outside where he’s more prone to mistakes (he’s taking more risks, some work, some don’t, (personally, that cotchery catch in the browns game might be the best play this year) We (sorta) shut down manning for at least the first half, and we did it by holding them to 1YPC in the first half. Finally, mccourty has to continue to be strong. We have been watching him, and he looks amazing for a rookie. He shut down CJ just as well as revis did, and if he can open up the safeties to shift to arrington/butlers side of the field, we have a chance a shutting down your offense to an extent.

Dick Butkus, Former Chicago Bears Linebacker
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was important -- like a league game."

by Cameron O on Dec 1, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Probably a stupid question

Did McCourty not play against Calvin Johnson for a half? I ask because Johnson seems to have done quite well in the game against the Patriots

TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems

by OldProspects on Dec 1, 2010 7:51 PM EST up reply actions  

The Pats had McCourty on Johnson for the first quarter...

but then they went back to their norm, which is playing left- and right- CB. Johnson had his TD catch and most of his yardage against the #2 CB, Arrington, who was a special teamer until this season.

In saying that, Johnson’s TD catch was a low back-shoulder comeback route that no CB in the league could’ve stopped. No particular shame for Arrington to give that play up.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 1, 2010 7:54 PM EST up reply actions  

If he was that effective

then why did they move him after the quarter?

TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems

by OldProspects on Dec 1, 2010 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

to try it out maybe.

I think maybe its actually because Calvin would play against a different type of corner, thus he’ll get used to playing that corner, then they put mccourty back on him.

I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP

These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick

I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!

by patriotguy2 on Dec 1, 2010 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Because both the corners are young and getting confused on occasion

They’d been playing LCB and RCB up until that game and they were missing a couple of assignments in run-support – they’d break the wrong way because it was instinctive. Unsurprisingly, the Lions ran it best in the first quarter – got 20-something yards off the first two rushes.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 1, 2010 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

At least, that was my read of it.

And Arrington struggled enough that they took him off against Johnson and put on the previous starter, Butler. They put Arrington back on as a pass-rushing DE (5’10", 190lber playing DE? Yep) and had the SS Chung play as nickel-CB in sub-packages.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 1, 2010 8:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I've never seen McCourty

so I don’t have any comments of whether he has as much upside as Patriots’ fans seem to think, but from what you’re saying, he seems to still be a fair way away from that upside, and therefore not (yet?) as good as Revis

TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems

by OldProspects on Dec 1, 2010 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

He's got 5 interceptions in two-thirds of a season, which is stunning for a rook.

He’s also a particularly good tackler for a CB in that Ty Law mould, which I’m not sure even Revis can claim.

He’s not near Revis’s 2009 performances yet, but then, neither was Revis as a rookie. If you want a quick look at McCourty, just check the highlights of last week’s Lions game – one of his picks he just flat-out smothered Calvin Johnson on a deep route and outjumped Johnson for the interception. Very, very impressive play on a stud WR.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 1, 2010 9:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll believe you that it's very impressive

But for the purposes of this week’s game, the issue isn’t if he will be Revis or Law in his prime. The issue is that he is currently not. Obviously one can be rather good without being Revis or Law in his prime, but that suggests he is still beatable, despite his fantastic INT totals

TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems

by OldProspects on Dec 2, 2010 12:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Pro Football Focus analysts put him on the same development track as Revis and Brandon Flowers

So of course the hope is that he does continue to shine. There’s no real reason why he shouldn’t – Belichick was Ty Law’s position coach in 1996 when Parcells was the Pats coach, so he’s taken a particular interest in McCourty, and it seems McCourty’s responding particularly well to it.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 2, 2010 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Again

Saying that somebody will be Darrell Revis is saying, by definition, that he is not now. Whether he will or will not be is not the subject for discussion right now; What is is that he is not a superstar CB for this week. If you disagree, then citing a source saying that he might become Revis or Law in three years is probably not the wisest decision

TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems

by OldProspects on Dec 2, 2010 1:29 AM EST up reply actions  

He's coming off a two-interception game, and has 3 picks in the last two games

So maybe?

I guess I’m just saying he’s about as good as Revis was his rookie season. I’m averse to attaching ‘superstar’ to pretty much anyone, but he’s very good and getting better.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 2, 2010 3:08 AM EST up reply actions  

That's terrific

But assuming that he can handle a #1 WR by himself this week is a risk. He may excel - or he may not

TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems

by OldProspects on Dec 2, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

he handled very good wrs by himself already.

Ochocinco, Boldin, Brandon Marshall, Calvin Johnson, and I THINK Mike Wallace(who is having a pro bowl year I believe).

You are right, he is not Ty Law, or 2009 revis, but that doesn’t discount the fact that he’s playing at a high level this year.

I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP

These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick

I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!

by patriotguy2 on Dec 2, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

But I thought the person above explained that CJ

played against him for only a quarter. And then they pulled him off him, suggesting it wasn’t as fantastic a situation as people seem to be assuming. I’m especially confused by these accounts, because the final play of the 1st Qtr, when supposedly McCourty was playing CJ, was a TD pass to him. That NE pulled him off CJ then suggests that they thought he wasn’t able to defend him.

Did he play the other WRs the whole game? Ochocinco dismantled the Patriots, so I’m not sure how he’s an example of McCourty shutting him down. The other receivers you mentioned – including CJ – didn’t have bad games overall against NE either.

TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems

by OldProspects on Dec 3, 2010 12:20 AM EST up reply actions  

It seems like he played CJ the next drive too

in which CJ got another reception. It’s no crime to not be able to defend CJ, but it certainly doesn’t seem like he was particularly effective in playing him, giving up 2 receptions for a TD in just over 1 qtr and 3 targets

TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems

by OldProspects on Dec 3, 2010 12:23 AM EST up reply actions  

That was Arrington.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 3, 2010 4:43 AM EST up reply actions  

No...

In the first quarter they had McCourty following CJ around, irrespective of where he lined up. From the second quarter on, Arrington and McCourty (and then Butler and McCourty) played LCB and RCB. So McCourty was occasionally covering CJ in the second quarter onwards, but it depended entirely on where Calvin Johnson lined up and not where McCourty did.

Ochocinco picked on Darius Butler, the bulk of which came in consecutive drives. Butler was again picked on by Braylon Edwards in the Jets game, and Butler was benched. Arrington took over and did fairly well.

The Pats CBs don’t man-up as a general rule, they play LCB and RCB. If Ocho or Braylon or whoever lines up on the left, they’re going to see a different CB than if they lined up to the right.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 3, 2010 4:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, that's just incorrect...

…Arrington was covering Calvin Johnson on the touchdown and for most of the yardage. McCourty let two completions on 5 attempts for 14 yards and an interception. No TDs.

by Richard Hill on Dec 3, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

There’s a pretty decent article about McCourty here. Puts him into comparison with Ty Law and Asante Samuel as rookies.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 1, 2010 10:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Of particular note from the article:
Monson [of analytical website Pro Football Focus], who has McCourty ranked as the 10th best corner in the AFC by PFF’s grading system, believes that when it comes to contemporaries, he’s ahead of where the two most dominant corners in the league were in their rookie seasons — Kansas City’s Brandon Flowers and New York’s Darrelle Revis.

"[Flowers’] career follows the same path of Darrelle Revis before him — a three-year growth from struggling, to very good, to excellent, All-Pro type numbers," Monson said. "If McCourty continues as he has been so far, he starts his career already well ahead of that pace, and just needs to continue his growth to become an extremely good player at the position."

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 1, 2010 11:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope he does, but I am always iffy on the ifs.

I can say things don’t always follow the paths of stats. In time, the league will get used to mccourty, as it has gotten more used to revis.

I think he’ll progress, but we’ll have to see how he’ll improve, and adapt more in the nfl.

As of now, McCourty is performing at a pro bowl level imo(maybe it’s slightly high praise, but it’s nothing to discount).

I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP

These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick

I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!

by patriotguy2 on Dec 2, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

i think the pats offense could put up 30+ they did last year in the 31-14 game against a jets defense that was ranked higher then this years. i dont think its going to be easy or likely but yes possible. the key for the offense is going to be keeping it simple run the ball throw it around high percentage passes. pats defense needs to get off the field on 3rd down stop the run amd make plays.

by brady12mvp3 on Dec 1, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

You gotta admit that sanchez had a lot to do with that last year. He gave you guys a bunch of short fields and threw a pick 6 (I think). Wasn’t exactly that your offense ran us over. Welker had a big day but it seems he’s not quite yet back to form and moss isn’t there to stretch out the top. I don’t think either of last years games will give any indication about how this game will go.

by Crackback on Dec 1, 2010 2:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Agreed

I think the best you could do to get an idea of what the Pats will do is examine the Steelers game.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 1, 2010 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Neither will the first game this year.

It could very well be night and day. Similar to last years 1st and 2nd games.

Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!

by PatNation85 on Dec 1, 2010 8:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Not so sure about that...

The Jets are just in much better shape than they were in the last game both offensively and defensively. I do think the pats are a bit better too, but with no Moss they just don’t match up well against us, I just don’t see how they do it with Welker shut down (which he basically will be with Revis not having to occupy Moss the whole time), Cro. having free range, and the all-practice squad backfield doesn’t scare anyone.

by Judgegavel on Dec 1, 2010 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Because there are two Welkers - Branch and Welker himself

And they’ve got two very talented TEs to throw at, too… and the Jets have been weak against TEs this year.

Not saying they’d automatically win or anything like that, but I suspect the Pats as they are without Moss (and with Branch and more confidence in the rookie TEs) are a harder team to match up against than the first time they played.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 1, 2010 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea but to really take advantage of that you need a deep threat which you don't have...

I agree the Jets have been weak against the TE, but its because a DB was always taken down field away from the play (that player usually being Revis), with no Moss (or real deep threat) to occupy Revis far away from the play, dumping it off and using TE’s becomes a lot more limited and slow (Revis will be close to make the tackle, Cro. is now free to do what he does best). I understand they may be executing better, but they are a much easier team to match up against without Moss, and thats even further compounded by having a healthy Revis for this game.

 Meanwhile Sanchez tore your secondary apart last meeting, and that was before we had our best receiver.

I just don’t see the dink and dunk keeping up, with very limited big play options. Also don’t insult Welker like that, Branch isn’t half the receiver he is.

by Judgegavel on Dec 1, 2010 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Really?

Pats scorched the Steelers without a recognised deep threat. Troy Polamalu and the Steelers LBs barely got in the game.

And if you ignore the ability of Tate to go deep (67 yarder for a TD vs. Vikings) or Branch (79 yarder for a TD vs. the Lions) or even the TEs Gronkowski (a bunch of 25-30 yard receptions on TE post-routes) or Hernandez (a bunch of 40+ yard receptions with huge YAC when in the slot), you’ll be in trouble.

The fact that those 4 guys can all be on the field at once is why the Jets will potentially be in trouble. Revis and Cromartie can only cover two of them.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 1, 2010 11:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Steelers dont have close to our secondary...

you weren’t able to scorch us (the team you are actually playing) with our best corner not close to 100% and out for the second half of the game, with Moss. Branch, and Tate do not scare anyone, they are depth guys. I agree the TE match ups will be tough, but Brady is going to be knocked down a lot if your using them in the pass that much.

Man you really love to bring up that Steelers game, wear that badge with honer, you do realize they are not that good.

by Judgegavel on Dec 2, 2010 12:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Couldn’t do it because of Moss. Which is why Moss is no longer a Patriot, in part.

You also fail to note how Hernandez, in only his second meaningful game as a professional sportsman, got 100 receiving yards against the Jets, and most of that came in the first half before Brady went all Moss-magnet.

I only talk about the Steelers game because they’re a blitz-happy 3-4, much like the Jets. I could bring up the Ravens, who are also a blitz-happy 3-4 like the Jets, if you’d prefer. Or the Chargers? Pats beat them, too…

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 2, 2010 1:02 AM EST up reply actions  

You keep blaming that last Jet win on Brady going to much to Moss

What, you are not saying or don’t want to admit is the Jet D, force Brady to go to Moss by taking away the underneath stuff after half time. The Pats have some impressive wins, but have you notice the two teams that dare you to go deep on them (Jets, Browns) have shut this offense down.

by BIG OH!!!!! on Dec 2, 2010 7:41 AM EST up reply actions  

When I watched the game, other receivers were more open.

At 4 yards, Cromartie was basically raping Moss (legally within 5 yards). Hard to say there wasn’t a better option.

Brady locked onto Moss to make some sort of a statement.

The statement he ended up making was that locking onto Moss is a bad idea. No Moss, no more.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 2, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

There were definitely times that other WRs were uncovered, but Brady threw to Moss anyway

And it was clear that the whole inability to hit Moss thing was getting to Brady. He was clearly frustrated and trying to jam it in there when he shouldn’t.

I made a mention during the game-thread that perhaps the Pats should’ve thought about taking Moss off the field completely at that point, if only to force Brady to look elsewhere. Him locking in on Moss at the expense of everyone was probably the beginning of the end of Moss’s NE stay – it was getting counterproductive having him at WR.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 2, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

So how do you blame that on Moss and Not Brady?

… oh, I forgot. Because Tom Terrific is infallible.

Moss made Brady fumble the ball at the end of the game too.

by James Calvin on Dec 2, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Boy, I love how you have to put words in my mouth to disagree with me.

No, I simply said having Moss at WR was counterproductive. Moss was frustrated at not being able to catch it, and Brady was frustrated at not being able to get it to him.

Cf. Lions game last week, or Colts game week before, or Steelers game before that. No Moss, no problems. He threw to guys that were open, and he didn’t try to jam it in to his All Pro WR.

Also consider what Carson Palmer did against the Jets. He tried to pick out a triple-covered TO near the end-zone and was unsurprisingly picked off. Why’d he do it? Because TO is TO.

Having an All Pro WR makes QBs take risks. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn’t. Brady’s always been better when he’s not taking undue risks (except in 2007), and it’s no coincidence that he racked up a perfect game last week by spreading it around to TEs, RBs, WRs in equal measure.

In saying that, Tom can be awful sometimes – Browns game, for instance. There he kept spraying it at the ankles of the WRs for reasons unknown. The difference being that spraying it at a 5’7" WR’s ankles is almost impossible to pick off, but misfiring when throwing at a 6’4" WR in double-coverage is going to cough up an interception. It’s no coincidence that Brady hasn’t thrown an interception in over 200 snaps in 6 games (and counting), all since Moss left.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 2, 2010 5:33 PM EST up reply actions  

The QB decides to throw it to.

Not the wide receiver.

Brady, has been great this year. When he’s not playing against a D coached by someone named Ryan.

by James Calvin on Dec 2, 2010 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

The QB decides to throw it to.
Not the wide receiver.

Tell that to the 2005 Eagles. Or any other team Terrell Owens has played for.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 2, 2010 6:11 PM EST up reply actions  

TO at 49ers. TO at Eagles. TO at Cowboys.

Randy Moss at the Raiders. Randy Moss at the Vikings (round 2). Michael Irvin at the Cowboys.

You really think a prima donna WR doesn’t get a say in how often they’re targeted?

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 3, 2010 12:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes,

If the coach is running the team.

by James Calvin on Dec 3, 2010 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

We're not Colts/Manning fans

Tom Brady is not infallible and Pats fans aren’t hesitant in calling him out when he has a bad game. He’s earned the benefit of the doubt in some cases, but above all it’s a team sport and New Englanders are beyond lucky to have a future Hall of Fame QB leading it.

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Dec 2, 2010 7:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

I have difficulty believing that the Jets will be able to stop the Patriots’ offense. That being said, I also have difficulty believing that the Patriots defense will be able to stop the Jets. In other words, this looks like a high scoring game to me

TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems

by OldProspects on Dec 2, 2010 12:08 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree.

I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP

These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick

I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!

by patriotguy2 on Dec 2, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

you forgot edelman. :(

I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP

These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick

I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!

by patriotguy2 on Dec 2, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Great questions.

I don’t think the offense can score 30+ points on the Jets defense. The only way the Patriots score over 30 is if there’s a defensive TD or a special teams score.

The key to the Patriots offense: This is the offensive cycle:
Patriots pass underneath to the sidelines, to open up the middle of the field.
Patriots run the ball to force defenses to play close to the LOS to stop the run and the underneath pass.
Patriots pass to tight ends deep up the middle to take advantage of the press defense.

If the Patriots can get going, they won’t be stopped. It’s an offense that thrives on momentum and forcing defenses to adjust. If they can’t initially get anything going, then they’ll struggle for the rest of the half.

The Patriots defense needs to take advantage of all offensive mistakes by the Jets. No dropped interceptions. No stupid penalties. They also need to prevent big gains on the ground. No passes to the tight ends. No missed tackles. This defense can slow offenses when they’re on fire. They’ve held the Chargers and Steelers to 3 points through 3 quarters and the Colts to 14, with one touchdown coming on one really terrible 2 minute drive at the end of the half. It’s when opposing teams start playing hurry up, the young defense still isn’t fully capable of adjusting on the fly.

If this defense can string together a full game, the Patriots offense might surprise everyone. Of course, that’s not certain in the least.

by Richard Hill on Dec 1, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Your defense has surrendered a ton of points, particularly lately. Do you guys think the Jets are likely to hang 25-30 on you?

How much of a concern is keller, and how do you think you guys will approach handling him (1-on-1 or bracketed)?

Who do think McCourty will be locked up on on the outside, and do you worry about giving up big plays to our passing game?

by Crackback on Dec 1, 2010 2:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

I see the Jets posting 20-25 points...

…and Keller will be bracketed, with the underneath coverage playing tight.

We don’t really worry about giving up big plays, since that’s what our defense focuses against, but the Jets can get big yards on hitch routes- which are usually an easy completion. McCourty will most likely be on an island against whoever your #2 is (difficult since both Edwards and Holmes are #1s), and Arrington will play with safety help on the #1.

by Richard Hill on Dec 1, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

How much do you think the dink and dunk offense will be utilized?

I haven’t watched too many (one) games this year, mostly highlights that show Brady throwing the ball the length of the field and celebrating. I keep reading about the YAC and Brady’s short throws, though. Which does he use more and which do you think will be more effective against the Jets?

by Gideon Jay on Dec 1, 2010 2:47 PM EST reply actions  

That is the offense haha...

…you’ll definitely see dink and dunk. We prefer to call it “death by papercuts.” The quick passes gets yardage, moves the chains, runs the clock, gets the receivers and Brrady on the same page and keeps defenses on their toes. He uses the quick passes to set up the big plays that are on the highlights, but you’ll see the quick passes first until the offense is in a rhythm.

by Richard Hill on Dec 1, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

How are the safeties in coverage? Are they something that you guys hope aren’t attacked and exploited? Or do you find that they’re an asset to the pass defense?

And if you don’t mind, what are the strengths and weaknesses of each?

by Crackback on Dec 1, 2010 3:17 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Our two main safeties Pat Chung and Meriweather are opposites

Chung is Rodney Harrison 2.0. He’s great against the run, good against tight ends but will get beat by wide receivers. He’ll be playing the eight man in the box. Meriweather is a fast guy, who tries to be polamalu, but isn’t as good. Lately though his job has simply been to cover the opponents number 1 over the top, and except for one perfect manning to wayne pass, he hasn’t been beat badly. We also sometimes bring out a three safety set with sanders, and he is a mix between meriweather and chung, does everything pretty well, but doesn’t astound in any way.

Dick Butkus, Former Chicago Bears Linebacker
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was important -- like a league game."

by Cameron O on Dec 1, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Meriweather is in the mold of ed reed. he reminds me of him.

just needs to build more awareness, and discipline.

I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP

These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick

I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!

by patriotguy2 on Dec 1, 2010 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

pats rbs

do you think woodhead and green-ellis will be able to have any effect here? the jets front 7 has been terrific this yr aginst the run (except for some scrambles by qb’s but brady isnt a threat) and honestly woodhead and green-ellis dont scare me much. if the rb’s dont get going and if jets take care of welker (if say, revis takes him) can the pats score enough. even if the te’s torch the jets will they be able to put up enough pts to cover for the awful d?

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Dec 1, 2010 4:52 PM EST reply actions  

Our RBs did very well against the #1 rushing defense in Pitt, who hadn't let rushing yardage go over 75 yards(we gained over 100).

IF you cover welker well, and the RBs don’t get going, you’ll have about 3-4 other people to deal with. Both TEs, woodhead in the passing game, and branch, and edelman if he plays.

I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP

These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick

I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!

by patriotguy2 on Dec 1, 2010 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Some teams run to establish the pass.

We tend to pass to establish the run, which then establishes the play action which helps the pass.

The difference is many teams will be run heavy in there first few series. The Pats will likely be balanced leaning toward pass heavy. They are trying to get the receivers and TE’s into the game quickly. Then when you back away from the line, run it at you.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 1, 2010 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

also how will the pats attack the jets defensively? i’ve heard mccourty is playing real well. would he match up better against holmes or edwards? can the pats get any pass rush-it seems they get even less pressure than the jets?

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Dec 1, 2010 4:53 PM EST reply actions  

The pats may use their sub packages that they used the last 3-4 games. Last time they faced the jets, they used a base package.

McCourty has done very well, and will likely cover Holmes, because he has quickness along with his speed. Arrignton, with a safety on top, will likely go to Edwards.

I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP

These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick

I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!

by patriotguy2 on Dec 1, 2010 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I actually think it would better for u guys if u put mccourty on braylon than holmes. Holmes is impossible to cover 1-on-1. He’s what welker would be if welker had break away speed. Mcourty actually matches up pretty well with braylon. I think he would get torched by the quickness and precision routes of holmes.

Even still, assuming keller is bracketed, seems like LD will be solo on a LB which could lead to big plays. And if we figure out which receiver u want to double, we could mess with that by putting Keller on the same side.

God it kills me that our OC doesn’t get more production out of our offense. It baffles me that we don’t score a lot more than we do. It seems like we have big plays to be had on every down.

by Crackback on Dec 1, 2010 6:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Welker has supremely better routes than holmes

Holmes is a one cut beat you with speed guy, I haven’t seen him in the slot. That doesn’t make him any less dangerous, and i agree that arrington should go on holmes. Arrington is pretty fast, and with meriweather over the top, we can contain holmes (he’ll probably still have a game like wayne did though) Mccourty is gonna have to live up to the billing we have given him, and if he does, we have a good chance at limiting the jets scoring opportunities.

Dick Butkus, Former Chicago Bears Linebacker
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was important -- like a league game."

by Cameron O on Dec 1, 2010 6:18 PM EST up reply actions  

McCourty will likely be on Holmes out of necessity

Arrington, the other CB, is a quick guy who was a stud on special teams last year, but it still new to the whole WR-covering thing. He was fantastic in the Vikings game against a vertical WR in Moss – he (with a S over the top) held Moss to 1 reception and 8 yards (although he gave up a pass interference penalty).

He’s struggled against smaller, sharper guys, though – Davone Bess carved him up at times, and he struggled when matched up with Harvin and guys of that ilk. He’s great at shadowing and shading inside big burners (he even did a fairly decent job against Calvin Johnson), but he’s not suited to Santonio Holmes at all. Matching him up with Braylon Edwards plays to his strengths.

Thus, McCourty draws Santonio Holmes by process of elimination.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 1, 2010 6:28 PM EST up reply actions  

one thing we aren't going to do...put Butler on Edwards ever again....yuck

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 1, 2010 9:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Is Butler playing nickel now?

cause if you think him covering Edwards is bad, wait to you see him against Holmes.

by Judgegavel on Dec 1, 2010 11:19 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

they’ll def put McC on holmes w. a safety on him….Kyle A on Edwards and prob Butler on Crotchery (sorry if i butchered his name)

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 1, 2010 11:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I actually think matching it up the other way is better

Holmes is a real savey WR, who will exploit the best, and really do a job on a rookie, while Edwards is all skill. I would put McC on Edwards to try to shut him down, and then double Holmes

by Judgegavel on Dec 2, 2010 12:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Edwards will run down the field.

Arrington and Meriwether can cover this, while McCourty is better suited to covering the route-running Holmes. While McC will probably have help as well (most likely Sanders, as I can see the Pats using their 3-safety, big D-line package), he would be better at sticking with Holmes through his cuts than Arrington.

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 2, 2010 12:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Then who covers keller? A backer? I can’t see both safeties helping on both receivers mostly. Keller would set a record.

by Crackback on Dec 2, 2010 9:10 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I think the Pats will leave McCourty in single coverage

more than Arrington, esp if he is on Edwards at the time. with a 4-2-5 package, Guyton spies LT, Holmes is doubled by a corner (Arrington) and a safety (Meriwether), Cotchery is 1-on-1, and Keller is bracketed by a ’backer (Mayo) and a safety.

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 2, 2010 9:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps Gary Guyton - he's a 6'4" with 4.49 speed (similar to Urlacher's physicals)

Otherwise, Jarrad Page might be an option in a 3 S set – two deep, Page as a S but lining up at LB to cover Keller. He’s only now coming back to health, however. The other option is to put Pat Chung into the box to cover Keller instead of a LB and stack two ‘pure’ S back – probably Meriweather and James Sanders.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 2, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Whose your

third corner and can he cover Cotchery

Which linebackers and safeties will be on keller

JETS

by michael28102 on Dec 1, 2010 6:34 PM EST reply actions  

Unknown, it's changed a few times lately

They’ve lined up Patrick Chung (usually Strong Safety) in the slot CB role a few times lately. They’ve also run Jonathan Wilhite as nickel CB, and he’s nothing special, although he’s usually in the area when a WR is catching it. The third CB might be Darius Butler, who’s athletically gifted but has been in the coach’s dog-box for most of the season after starting off as a starter. Or they might give the starting-CB role back to Butler and put Arrington in at nickel-CB, and he’s a strong tackler and very quick but a bit prone to mis-reading passing plays (he was a special teamer last year, not a ‘real’ CB).

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 1, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions  

sanchez not brady key to this game

 
we all know brady can have a good game against us but doesn’t mean a pats win but if sanchez has a poor game were screwed .

our d seem to have gotten a bit better at getting pressure on qb’s and sanchez has got better at moving away from pressure .
but the one weapon i think the pats will struggle with is one shoe smith .
my questions are as follows
(1) do you guys think you can stop the jets wildcat when miami ( better d) couldn’t ?
( 2) i still like woodhead but he would be still a jet if he could run the ball well against our d do you think his value for this game is more about his knowledge of us rather than his ability ?
( 3) holmes looks unplayable especially were teams get tired . can you cover him in the 4th quarter with any of your cb’s ?
( 4 ) how much will this game come down to the kickers and who’s is better ?
i ask this final question aout both teams kickers as both teams have reality new ones

by tinley24 on Dec 1, 2010 9:22 PM EST reply actions  

1) I imagine Belichick will gameplan for the Jets version of the Wildcat; I know they said they had a gameplan to stop Josh Cribbs when they played the Browns, and they’d treat Brad Smith as Cribbs’ equal.
2) No, definitely ability. The Pats still use the shotgun a lot, (30-40%) and he’s the primary shotgun back. He’s great at running off draws, he can split out wide, he can catch out of the backfield, and he can pass-protect in the pocket (he even blew Ray Lewis up one-on-one). He’s key, even if he’s not on the stat sheet, because he keeps Brady clean in the shotgun.
3) I imagine Devin McCourty will be on Holmes. Smaller shifty WRs have occasionally given the Pats trouble (Percy Harvin, Davone Bess), so Holmes will be a threat. However, I imagine that Belichick will realise this and gameplan accordingly.
4) I’m not sure either team will want it to come down to a kick. In fact, if it was a choice of a 35+ yard game-winning kick and letting Brady take a shot at the End Zone, I wouldn’t be surprised if Belichick and O’Brien opt for letting Brady throw it.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 1, 2010 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree 100%

only way Jets lose is if Sanchez has one of his bad days.

by Judgegavel on Dec 1, 2010 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Really? The only way?

You make it sound like the Jets are unstoppable even if Sanchez only has a so-so game. Roethlisberger had a pretty good day against the Pats but the Steelers still lost.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 1, 2010 11:44 PM EST up reply actions  

The Jets are not the Steelers...

We have a more dynamic passing game, and a superior running game. I would say they have a slightly better defense as a whole, although its close.

That being said the only games we lost this year, were when Sanchez was not getting the job done (although Shotty gets some of the blame there too), and that was against two of the best defenses in the league. The majority (all aside from two) of last years losses were because of bad games from Sanchez. I don’t think the Jets are unstoppable if Sanchez has a so-so game, however I certainly think they are if he has a good game. Sanchez doesn’t really have so-so games they are either good or he’s off (although very few have been off this year), when he’s off they have to limit his passing situations that may give him so-so stats, but they will not easily win thats for sure, and it depends on the defense and running game.

by Judgegavel on Dec 2, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions  

True, Jets aren't the Steelers, but you can compare somewhat. If not; choose the Ravens. Or Chargers. Colts. Maybe even the Bengals.
That being said the only games we lost this year, were when Sanchez was not getting the job done (although Shotty gets some of the blame there too), and that was against two of the best defenses in the league.

Sub out ‘Sanchez’ for ‘Brady’, and you’re describing the Patriot’s losses, too.

Granted, Browns aren’t the Ravens, but then, the Pats beat the Ravens. And the Browns were a hell of a trap game – they had the bye week to prepare, Mangini knows the Patriots backwards, forwards and sideways, it was at Cleveland, the Browns were coming off a win against the defending Superbowl Champs, and the Pats were coming off physical matchups with the Vikings and Chargers beaten up. PatsPulpit thought it was a trap coming coming into the week, and it proved to be one.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 2, 2010 1:08 AM EST up reply actions  

I disagree.

Brady MUST play well in order for the pats to even compete.

But the Jets can survive a bad game by sanchez (100 or so yards, 2+ turnovers). We have a defense that can be stifling and a running game that can be dominant. We also have be Brad Smith that can always bust loose for 2 TDs at any time from any where. Plus we have big play potential all over in our passing game. Which means that even if sanchez isn’t playing good all he has to do is connect on just a few and Braylon, Holmes and Keller all have the ability to make a guy miss and go.

Brady has to be near perfect. He doesn’t have much big play potential, doesn’t have running game that can be the focal point of their offense, and he doesn’t have a defense that can keep points off the board.

by Crackback on Dec 1, 2010 11:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

If you had to take one player off the Jets, who would you take?

Darrelle Revis once won a game of Connect Four in three moves.

by bm01bath on Dec 1, 2010 9:27 PM EST reply actions  

Mangold without a second thought

Ok that’s not true, I thought about Shaun Ellis because of our DE deficiency, but it came down to Mangold being 26 and Ellis 33.

Center has been a weak link on our O-line and Koppen is long in the tooth, would LOVE to have a stud like Mangold giving Brady protection

by Csigs on Dec 1, 2010 9:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow, didn't expect either of those choices.

Darrelle Revis once won a game of Connect Four in three moves.

by bm01bath on Dec 1, 2010 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I forget how nice of a commodity Mangold is.

Darrelle Revis once won a game of Connect Four in three moves.

by bm01bath on Dec 1, 2010 9:58 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed

its easy for us to forget how fortunate we are to have the nfls best player at a position. we know about it w/ revis b/c the guy cant shut up about how great he s. mangold just goes about his business. not sure why someone would want ellis that bad. you would think they would want revis or cro w/ their cb situation

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Dec 2, 2010 12:58 AM EST up reply actions  

I suppose if it's a rental for the rest of the year

I’d go with Revis or Cro…but I was saying long term, in which Revis would be a nice luxary for us but not as much of an improvement as Mangold over Koppen. I’m perfectly happy going into next year with Bodden and McCourty as our corners. I’d consider Koppen a liability though.

by Csigs on Dec 2, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

The Pats O-line is getting old, and Koppen at C has been getting mauled on occasion this year

Mangold would be a great addition, although he’s not as visible a player as some. D’Brickashaw would be useful, too – especially with a young LT/RT combo in Brick and Vollmer.

Keller would be nice, but the Pats have already got two young stud pass-catching TEs, so they wouldn’t need him. He’d just be a good TE to have (and a good TE to deprive the Jets of, ha).

David Harris would be fun to pair with Mayo, although they’re pretty similar. Bart Scott would add something, but I don’t think he’s right for the team attitude-wise.

Revis and McCourty in a young 1-2 would be fantastic.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 1, 2010 10:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I think all that attitude stuff with Bart Scott is overrated, but he definitely wouldn’t last there with all his unsportsmanlike penalties.

and the HOLMES of the... JETS!!!
www.ganggreennation.com
If you can touch it, you can catch it.

by dvdvil on Dec 1, 2010 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm also suspicious of ex-Ravens LBs after Adalius Thomas.

And he was just a giant attitude problem.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 1, 2010 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I expected people to take Revis.

Considering the Pats pass defense this year. How well would he fit in their system?

Darrelle Revis once won a game of Connect Four in three moves.

by bm01bath on Dec 1, 2010 10:39 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

He's actually perfect for the system...

…but there are players on the Jets that would have greater improvement over a Patriots player than Revis would have over who he replaced.

by Richard Hill on Dec 2, 2010 12:14 AM EST up reply actions  

this

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 1, 2010 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Man, I still can't believe you guys have such little respect for quality RB's

I guess you’ve been winning without them so much, you don’t realize how much better you could be with someone who can actually run.

Sorry but Green-Ellis and Woodhead, are scrub practice squad players who would (and did) have trouble playing for most teams in the NFL let alone starting. Greene is the player that might help you guys the most (after Revis and Mangold of course).

by Judgegavel on Dec 2, 2010 12:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Green-Ellis has only played for the Pats,

And Woodhead did pretty well for the Jets (who signed him as a UFA in 08) in limited preseason time. So much for struggling to play for most NFL teams.
As Green-Ellis is averaging 4.3 ypc to Greene’s 4.1, and Woodhead is averaging 5.4 ypc to LT’s 4.5, I’d say that the “scrub practice squad players” are outperforming your two studs at running the ball.

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 2, 2010 1:10 AM EST up reply actions  

And...

BJGE has 9 rushing TDs
Woodhead has 3 rushing TD, 1 receiving TD

Shonn Greene has 1 rushing TD
LaDanian Tomlinson has 5 rushing TD

13 TD > 6 TD. It’s not like the Pats RBs are getting soft yardage, they’re getting plenty of Red Zone touches.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 2, 2010 1:18 AM EST up reply actions  

the jets have been dreadful in the redzone this yr. taht could explain the td numbers

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Dec 2, 2010 1:20 AM EST up reply actions  

regardless

Your RBs have less rushing TDs, because they don’t get in the endzone as much as Law Firm(Green- Ellis) and Woody.

I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP

These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick

I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!

by patriotguy2 on Dec 2, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Enough to get 9 TDs? Ha

Less carries overall – BJGE is about 100, maybe 150 yards behind LT in total production. But also factor in the fact BJGE wasn’t the #1 RB for the first three games – Maroney, Fred Taylor and Kevin Faulk were playing those three games, and Benny was behind those guys on the depth chart.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 2, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Not quite

BJGE has 627 yards rushing and 57 receiving, for 684 total yards. LT has 741 yards rushing alone, and then another 329 receiving, for 1060 total yards. This isn’t to take anything away from Green-Ellis who is quite good.

I’m not sure why, though, you say that BJGE wasn’t the #1 RB for the first three games. In the 3rd game, he had 16 rushes, which is about as many as he has ever had in a single game, and 98 yards, which is his second most. Even in the 2nd game, he ran 10 times; one of the reasons he stopped, though, was because he was stopped in those runs, getting a total of 19 yards. In general, his stats seems to suggest a lot of inconsistency; he’s had some terrific games against the Bills, Vikings, Steelers, Colts and Lions. But he was utterly shut down by the Browns, Chargers, Ravens and, well, Jets. What’s interesting about that record is he’s had really good games against two of the top-5 rushing defenses, and 3 of the worst rushing defenses. The teams that have stopped him have included 2 in the top-5 (including the Jets), and two teams that have been relatively ordinary against the run (Browns and, surprisingly, the Ravens). I’m not sure if this means anything, but it could mean that his inconsistency is a function of his ability on a given day, rather than because of which team he faces

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by OldProspects on Dec 2, 2010 8:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep, sorry, I meant rushing production, not total.

Benny’s had 125 yards less than LT on the ground, and rarely gets used on third-downs as a pass-catcher.

It was odd how they used him the first 3 games. He didn’t get the ‘start’ per se in any of the games, but he ended up getting the bulk of reps in all three.

In game 1 Fred Taylor was #1 RB and rushed for 71 yards off 14 carries @ 5.1ypc; Maroney was #2 but got nicked up (and subsequently traded to Denver, where he didn’t play for 4 games because he was hurt), so Benny took reps when he was expecting to be #3 or #4 behind Faulk (or maybe even #5 behind Morris).

In week 2 against the Jets, Fred Taylor came in as the #1, but seemingly got hurt and only ran for 11 yards off 5 carries. Faulk was badly hurt and put on IR after this game, so BJGE had gone from #4 or #5 RB to #1 all of a sudden. I couldn’t tell you what kind of hell that does to the guy’s game-preparation.

Taylor was back at RB #1 for week 3, but only to the tune of 6 carries for 16 yards before he got turf toe (he hasn’t played since). Again, BJGE carried the load when he probably wasn’t expecting it, and didn’t do so well.

Since then, Benny’s been the clear #1 RB before each game and has grown into the role. They also added Woodhead, who has a complementary skillset. Benny won’t be running shotgun draws or anything he’s not unsuited for, so his rushing has improved and he’s taking less hits because he’s sharing the load.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 2, 2010 11:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Woodhead did well?

It was preseason, you can make a case that CWash did even better and where is he? BJGE and Woodhead are having success because of the scheme not their ability, if you had a back like Greene he would be having much better success.

by Judgegavel on Dec 2, 2010 8:04 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I seem to remember Woodhead

having 150 yards and a couple of TDs in one preseason game (‘09?). Maybe I’m wrong.

Comparing abilities, yeah, Green-Ellis is pretty much maxed out as he is. But the way Greene is playing this season as opposed to down the stretch last year, his surplus of ability doesn’t seem to be doing anything extra for him over the Law Firm this year.

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 2, 2010 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

against the eagles....he is the eagle killer

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 2, 2010 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

So, not like it was against the Raiders 4th stringers

Andy Reid (do I mention walrus?) does a pretty good job at creating depth. Second only to one man. Three guesses who.

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 2, 2010 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Paul McCartney?

Hugh Hefner?

Gah! I hate tests!!!!!!!

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 2, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

one more...

don’t blow it…

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 2, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

and it's not Dan Snyder...

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 2, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't stand the pressure!

I’m gonna go get a snack.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 2, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

it had better be a goshdarn snack :)

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Dec 2, 2010 6:16 PM EST up reply actions  

well it probably isn't Pol-eye-an

at least according to BBS

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 2, 2010 7:26 PM EST up reply actions  

but the iggles 4th stringers are better

than the colts 4th stringers, or the raiders 4th stringers.

anyway, 150 yards is pretty darn good, regardless of the strength oof the opposition

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 3, 2010 2:50 AM EST up reply actions  

*of

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 3, 2010 2:50 AM EST up reply actions  

The offensive line can make any running back look good.

Case in point: LT.

Chargers had an awful O-Line. LT was awful.
Jets have a great O-Line. LT is great.

Patriots have a great O-Line. Laurence Maroney looks serviceable.
Broncos have a terrible O-Line. Maroney averages 2 yards/carry.

Yes, all-world running backs can make their own destiny. There are very few of those in the NFL (Peterson, Rice, MJD, SJax and CJ). Greene isn’t one of them and LT is no longer one of them. The Patriots would rather invest in an O-Line member that can not only help the running game, but also the passing game, than in a running back who would struggle behind a weak offensive line.

by Richard Hill on Dec 2, 2010 1:57 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

bryan thomas??????

i honestly hope the jets cut him after the yr. he’s making a lot of dough and other than one gm has done jack this yr. my older bro is a huge giant fan but has watched all jet gms this yr and when i brought up thomas last wk he didnt even realize he was still on the team. he cant rush the passer at all. solid against the run though

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Dec 2, 2010 1:02 AM EST up reply actions  

also

w/ yuor young stud te’s why would you want keller so bad?

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Dec 2, 2010 1:02 AM EST up reply actions  

sorry

your

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Dec 2, 2010 1:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Can't have too many of a good thing.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 2, 2010 1:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Imagine an offense...

…Welker, Woodhead, Keller, Hernandez and Gronkowski.

You can’t stop that. Two tight ends who can block, but who also possess big WR skills and speed? Welker and Woodhead underneath? Gronkowski as a mis-match every time?

That would be an awesome offense.

by Richard Hill on Dec 2, 2010 1:59 AM EST up reply actions  

although he's done well ont the pats

i’m still very skepticle of woodhead. he would be the 3rd rb on the jets. maybe. there’s a reason he was cut

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Dec 2, 2010 2:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Welker was once 6th WR at the Chargers and was cut, too

One man’s trash, etc…

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 2, 2010 3:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh, and that Brady guy was once 4th QB and was *this* close to being cut...

The 2000 Pats made the unusual decision to keep 4 QBs on the roster. The fourth guy? Tom Brady.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 2, 2010 3:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Really 3 TE's

I compare even a two TE set to the wildcat, your going to have some success but in the long run your limiting your offense and it’s going to be stopped. It’s not reinventing the wheel, a 3 TE set and a scat back would cause some matchup problems, but you’d also be extremely limiting your offense.

by Judgegavel on Dec 2, 2010 8:00 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

It depends on the two TEs...

…the Patriots have had the most effective offense with two tight ends on the field. It confuses defenses (run or pass?) and it also gives the quarterback some big targets and extra protection.

With Aaron Hernandez, there’s a versatile player. He’s not big enough to be an in-line blocker, but he can play the fullback slot, he can be a off-line, step back blocker and he can catch the ball. He’s one inch taller and 20 pounds heaver than Dez Bryant- and he has the same 40 times. That adds something to the offense.

With Gronkowski, you have a 6-6 in-line blocker who can take 4-3 defensive ends one on one. You also have a player that cannot be defended down the field. He’s just too tall. He’s the generic tight end that helps out.

The three TE set would most likely dominate during a no huddle offense, since it provides the team with two players who can step as wide receivers on some players, help as a fullback on another play and be a blocker on the next. It’s a lot of versatility.

It may be excessive, but the two TE set with the generic TE and the TE/WR hybrid is extremely effective.

by Richard Hill on Dec 2, 2010 9:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Although Hernandez is really a WR in a TE's body

He plays a lot like Dallas Clark, as a big slot-WR who just happens to be 250lbs. Having him on the field means you could still run WR-like routes from what is still a 3TE set.

Also factor in that Woodhead is a RB/WR – in fact, it was the Jets who first listed him as a WR instead of running back. It’s a matchup issue nightmare, especially if you start off in what looks like a goal-line formation and then move Woodhead and Hernandez into WR positions. If the opposition is heavy on LBs, you’ve got a matchup issue. If they’ve got CBs on the field, you move back into a run formation.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 2, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Can we get Woodhead back on the cheap?

You had to sign him to an extension. It was definitely a dumb move to cut him. If Shotty was creative he could use his skillset as a different multi-tool piece like Brad Smith. Too bad, I hope he doesn’t get hurt again, as I think most people here have alot of respect for the guy.

by Timmaht on Dec 2, 2010 1:43 PM EST reply actions  

Some clarification.

If we cut him last year, I wouldn’t have been as suprised as we were a power running team. But now that we value the pass and finesse running more, it just seems like a complete oversight.

by Timmaht on Dec 2, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree. I don’t really see much finess runs. We’re still more of a power running team. We don’t really do the draws and the sweeps and quick tosses.

Even still, I much prefer Tomlinson in that roll.

by Crackback on Dec 2, 2010 2:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I think the finesse...

…is looking towards LT in the passing game, which still isn’t very finesse. Woody would still provide you guys a solid 3rd down player, but he still wouldn’t really fit on your roster.

by Richard Hill on Dec 2, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

It's not that he wouldn't fit

I just think we have much better suited players available right now.

I’ll never complain about a surplus of talent. But it was regrettable to see him leave. Still, I’m glad he’s making it in the big time.

GGN Moderator, House pessimist, veteran arm chair coach.
www.GangGreenNation.com

by Bro Namath on Dec 2, 2010 5:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Can you guys cut Brad Smith, too? Please?

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 2, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

truthfully

although most guys here on ggn and jet fans in general love smith i dont particularly care for him. he’s not a very good wr at all (i believe he has something like 39 yds total this yr) and i’m not a huge fan of the tiger formation (although we def run it better than the fins do). i also think tate is a better return man and wr than him. he’s a free agent after the yr so who knows?

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Dec 2, 2010 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I think his role as an asset is greatly overstated

and while he doesn’t always seem to do much if it weren’t for the couple of home runs he drove on the Bengals we’d be a game behind right now.

I’ll take it.

GGN Moderator, House pessimist, veteran arm chair coach.
www.GangGreenNation.com

by Bro Namath on Dec 2, 2010 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

all true, but

while i’m thrilled he won the gm for us i wouldnt go crazy to resign him next yr. we’ve got plenty of other guys who should have priority over him. if we can keep him and resign everybody else that’d be cool but chances are that wont happen i nwhich case i think we should let him walk. it wouldnt exactly kill our offense to lose the tiger, turner could prob take hs spot at wr and returners are a dime a dozen (although apparently the giants havent figured that one out yet)

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Dec 2, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions  

True, but you can never have enough useful roster-filler guys

And Tate hasn’t really been used to return punts thus far, that’s mainly been Welker and Edelman. They also seem to be hoping Tate can be groomed into a starting WR, so they will likely to want to limit his kick return snaps to reduce the number of times he’s hit – which is where Smith could step in.

I also bear in mind the fact that the Jets couldn’t find Woodhead many things to do… but the Pats certainly could. Having Brad Smith to tinker with couldn’t hurt at all.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 2, 2010 6:24 PM EST up reply actions  

woodhead only didnt do that amt of stuff b/c the jets didnt have need. if the jets rb situation was as porous as the pats than woodhead would be doing those same things here. rex clearly had a soft spot for the kid. brad smith isnt jets punt guy either thats been mix of kyle wilson and leonhard (i actually think leonhard is similar to smith, sure handed, not particularly quick, good at reading blocks on returns).

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Dec 2, 2010 6:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Everybody Pats and Jets fans alike give me your prediction for Monday night

GGN Moderator, House pessimist, veteran arm chair coach.
www.GangGreenNation.com

by Bro Namath on Dec 2, 2010 6:10 PM EST reply actions  

jets 23-17

jets go up 10-0 early w/ scoring pts off at least 1 turnover. pats take lead back 14-13. jets answ and score next 10 pts before holding off furious pats rally at end. brady gets picked inside jet 30 w/ under 2 min to go

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Dec 2, 2010 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

The same guy that hasn't been picked off since?? When again? Oh yeah, a hail mary

pass at the end of regulation. He won’t be forcing it to Moss anymore bro. Not to mention, between our QB’s, yours is the one that will most likely make the mistakes. Not ours. WHo do you think you’re facing Monday Night? Peyton Manning?

Don't cut your locks Tom Terrific!

by PatNation85 on Dec 4, 2010 12:39 AM EST up reply actions  

So I guess he will never be picked off again?

Darrelle Revis once won a game of Connect Four in three moves.

by bm01bath on Dec 4, 2010 9:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I think he is saying it's A LOT less likely for him to get picked off

than it is with Mark Sanchez.

I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP

These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick

I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!

by patriotguy2 on Dec 4, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

True.

I believe he went about it the wrong way in the subject line though. I would expect Sanchez to be picked off before Brady as well. If Brady is going to picked off, this is the defense to expect it against.

Darrelle Revis once won a game of Connect Four in three moves.

by bm01bath on Dec 4, 2010 6:11 PM EST up reply actions  

No, I didn't misunderstand.

You said he hasn’t been picked off since forever, and he won’t be forcing it to Moss anymore, implying that he won’t be picked off in this game. I may have exaggerated your point quite a bit, and for that I apologize. Saying that Sanchez was more likely to be picked off was a secondary thought though.

Darrelle Revis once won a game of Connect Four in three moves.

by bm01bath on Dec 5, 2010 9:47 AM EST up reply actions  

34-28 Jets

It’s gonna be a fun ride and not a headache.hopefully.

by Timmaht on Dec 3, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Only as much as the lure of hotdogs

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 2, 2010 6:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Not that it really matters...

but do you really think the hot dog thing is much of a rip, if anything it was just funny and I give some props to Mark for it. The ugg boot thing is embarrassing but not as much as the Bieber cut, or the purse wearing Yankee hat photo.

Photobucket

by Judgegavel on Dec 2, 2010 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Shrug.

If I win 3 Superbowls and marry a supermodel I’d be comfortable enough in my masculinity to wear something as overwhelmingly effeminate as a purse and Yankees cap, too.

Bud oom tss.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 2, 2010 11:43 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

You may be right, I may be crazy

So, just out of curiousity, when Pats fans don’t know what to comeback with, do they just bring up the three SB…while it is clearly impressive and undoubtedly true, it gets old fast…at some point you can just agree or say something else…or hopefully we’ll win one sometime soon

Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose

by dhrodgers52 on Dec 3, 2010 1:33 AM EST up reply actions  

You mean the ultimate prize in the NFL happens to also be the ultimate trump card? I'd never have guessed.

Colts fans would prefer to talk about league MVPs… but I’d bet Manning would trade in 4 MVPs for 3 more Superbowl Rings.

And to be honest, I’m somewhat serious about Brady. The guy’s earned the right to do whatever he likes. By the same token, I’d say the same about guys like Jason Taylor on Dancing with the Stars; he’s earned his man-points for a lifetime. Hah.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 3, 2010 4:46 AM EST up reply actions  

nah, Manning wouldn't.

He’s always been about himself, that’s why he is in so many ads and demands such an exorbitant contract.
 he might be concerned that his “special” brother has the same amount of rings though, and didn’t throw a pick-6 to lose another one.

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 3, 2010 6:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Now see dancing with the stars, thats embarrassing, not eating hot dogs.

by Judgegavel on Dec 3, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought they Played in Six Super Bowls.

And lost 3? I think they lost their last one to a NY team about 5 years ago, not sure.

But as they point out so often, this is a whole brand new team, so the past (including week 2 this year) means nothing.

by James Calvin on Dec 3, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

No, really?

I just heard that for the first time this morning … coming out of the lobotomy clinic.
I was shocked

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 3, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Not really cause the whole story has never come out, its like the JFK assassination.

especially when his proteges are still getting caught cheating, and the best player in the game is fearful of locker room taping.

by Judgegavel on Dec 3, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

He should be fearful.

Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean everyone isn’t out to get you.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 3, 2010 5:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it's more like

“How many licks does it take to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop.”

The world may never know, but then again, only people that suck would really care.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 3, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

John Travoltas married too.

by Judgegavel on Dec 3, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Brady knocked up Bridget Moynahan and then Gisele Bundchen...

pretty sure he’s straight. Pretty sure…

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.

by Comedic.Sans on Dec 4, 2010 3:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Travolta’s got a whole list too.

by Judgegavel on Dec 4, 2010 8:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Brady isn't a scientologist.

Yet.

Paul the Octopus - gone but not forgotten

by insertscreenname on Dec 4, 2010 10:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Yet, lol...

If you heard a teaser on the news, “famous sports figure is converting to scientology”, you know Brady would be the #1 most likely.

by Judgegavel on Dec 4, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

no comment

Non Sibi Sed Patriae &I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

Toy Story wears no. 39 100x better than D.D.R

Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."

by NinjaZX6R on Dec 4, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

outstanding

I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.

by Troy O on Dec 4, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions  

You're asking us? Weird..

I think it’s going to play a factor because Leonhard was likely more familiar with Ryan’s schemes and desires when he calls plays. That familiarity gone, might lead to a bit of confusion in coverages and schemes or lead to more defensive time outs called. A small advantage really in that regard.

On the other hand, Leonhard was a pretty solid safety who was familiar with the Pats and Brady, a pretty solid hitter and had pretty good instincts that he likely garnered while near Ed Reed. Losing that edge, might lead to more YAC numbers than the Jets really want.

I think the Pats will likely do a lot more to hide plays and Brady will do his usual tricks to confuse new safeties. Beyond that, I don’t think it changes the gameplan going in of attacking the middle of the field.

by satsunada on Dec 4, 2010 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Good health to both teams tonight.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Dec 6, 2010 1:11 PM EST reply actions  

+ 1 million

here’s to a close fought rivalry and NO INJURIES tonight.

GGN Moderator, House pessimist, veteran arm chair coach.
www.GangGreenNation.com

by Bro Namath on Dec 6, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, a good game with no injuries!

Darrelle Revis once won a game of Connect Four in three moves.

by bm01bath on Dec 6, 2010 7:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Well.. that happened

I hope David Harris is ok, same with that weird named safety. See you again come playoff time I’m sure. :)

by satsunada on Dec 7, 2010 1:54 AM EST reply actions  

Hopefully it’ll be more of a game next time.

Cheers to all the classy Pats fans visiting this week.

GGN Moderator, House pessimist, veteran arm chair coach.
www.GangGreenNation.com

by Bro Namath on Dec 7, 2010 3:24 AM EST up reply actions  

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