Jets Might Be Wise to Move Sione Pouha to End at Times
by John B on Oct 13, 2010 7:56 PM EDT
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The Denver Broncos have not been able to run the ball effectively this season. The numbers do not lie. They rank last in the league with 51.8 yards on the ground per game. They average 2.3 yards per carry. Football Outsiders rates their line as the worst run blocking unit in the game.
The only place FO says the Broncos run the ball even at the league average is to the right end. They rank 27th or worse going everywhere else. It might be a good idea to stick Sione Pouha at end to counter this and stick Mike Devito in the middle.
This is not unheard of. Rex Ryan did it with Haloti Ngata in Baltimore. The Patriots frequently do it with Vince Wilfork against Miami to create a more favorable matchup. Given the way Devito is playing, he should be able to win matchups against J.D. Walton and the rest of Denver's interior line. It would make sense to stick the strongest run defender to counter against the only place the Broncos can effectively run it.
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John, what do you think of this play I thought of?
After watching the Jets/Vikings game, I was in utter shock when Sanchez hiked the ball with 8 seconds left on the play clock. This got me thinking about what play I would have called in that situation. the situation is 2nd and 9, 2:04 will be left on the clock if you let it go down all the way. My understanding of the rules might be a little iffy, so someone please tell me if this is legal or not. I would have Braylon go out for a pass, and purposefully knock the defender down, to make sure he has a wide open catch for the 1st down. Now the 2 min warning has happened, and if they don’t accept we have a 1st down. If they do, wouldn’t we have 2nd and 19 on the other side of the 2 min warning? That means we would be able to take the clock down to 40 seconds with an extra play. Hell, on 3rd down, we can do it again. I feel like this would be a loophole in the system, to keep the ball. Maybe someone else has thought of this already, and there is already a rule in place to counter it.
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by GangGreenMag on Oct 13, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
While this is interesting...
It’s nothing I woud want to see tried in a close game. Maybe up 3 possesions lets try it…lol. But I wonder if this is legal??
The JETS/NETS are coming!
Or maybe put Big Green at NT.
That would be a nice beefy front line, with our two best run-stopping DLs collapsing things from the edges.
Would also keep Ellis and Pryce fresher for pass rushing duties.
Don’t think we need to go big. Denver can’t run anywhere else. Add a pass rusher instead..
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True, but you could use these guys on first downs to tie up blockers and blitz their flank. Maybe it will save a few reps for the pass rushers in the thin mile high air.
They rank 27th or worse going everywhere else. It might be a good idea to stick Sione Pouha at end to counter this and stick Mike Devito in the middle.
I would say that this would be a complete over-reaction. To distort the defense from its best formulation for RE runs which account for the smallest amount of runs that Denver has run (14%) is silly. Denver HARDLY runs. Its not like they are going to start pounding it running right (where they are barely average).
It would be making a mountain out of a mole hill.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
It’s not necessarily the best formation against this particular opponent.
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Why?
You are afraid that the worst running team in the league is suddenly going to start running RE sweeps???
That would be a joke. They don’t even try to run the ball, and they run off right end less than any other direction. THEY don’t even think it is an advantage, let alone an advantage against the Jets who have the best run defense in the league.
Further, I would count the formation that the team is MOST used to running, the most effective one, especially against a unspectacular, in fact horrible run offense.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Oct 13, 2010 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
It is the only place they run the football even average.
Pouha is the best run stopper the Jets have.
The Jets therefore put their best run stopper in the only place Denver runs reasonably well.
That is my answer. Feel free to disagree.
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by John B on Oct 13, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Jets therefore put their best run stopper in the only place Denver runs reasonably well.
He is the best INSIDE run stopper. But these are rarely run runs at RIGHT END. Not even Right Tackle. Right end. Why would he be better than Ellis at this?
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Oct 13, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
The Broncos have only run right 14 times the entire season (avg 3 times a game), and there seems no evidence at all that Puaha would even be better than Ellis at defending the outside run.
It just makes no sense to me.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Oct 13, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Further, the Jets are already 5th in the league
in defending the middle run, and Denver runs middle runs 33% of the time. Why would you take AWAY from your defense where most of the runs go, to defend the edge with a player you don’t even know if he is better than the guy you have already there, for runs that seldom happen?
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Oct 13, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
My feelings on this matter have already been laid out above.
If you want to disagree, that’s your right, but we’re going in circles here.
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I am disagreeing by presenting facts you either have not considered
or are simply suppressing.
You are simply saying: “That’s what I think.” regardless of facts.
Why not answer the question why you think Puuha would be better against outside runs than Ellis? I mean the guy is an INSIDE run stopper.
Or, why we should take away a strength from the place where Denver runs 33% of the time?
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Oct 13, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Cut the condescending crap first of all. You can disagree without coming off like an ass.
Pouha plays with better leverage than Ellis against the run.
Denver may run in a place 33% of the time, but they don’t do it well. Devito can handle Walton.
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Cut the condescending crap first of all. You can disagree without coming off like an ass.
If you think it is condescending to bring facts to a discussion, I consider it condescending to willfully ignore facts brought to an argument.
Pouha plays with better leverage than Ellis against the run.
NOT as an outside run defender. Where do you get the idea that getting leverage is key to defending runs at the edge? Isn’t key not being sealed off???
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Oct 13, 2010 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I see you have answered civilly below. You can ignore my above comments and questions.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Oct 13, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry to jump in on this little spat, but I think its essence is a good convo. I hope you guys don’t mind if i add to it (the convo, not the spat).
I think JB has a point in that Pouha could get penetration and blow it all up.
But DeVito seems much better at slipping blocks, but he’s also good at holding the point.
And I could be wrong, but doesn’t Devito mostly play LDE, which would cover runs to the offense’s right side?
There's no spat here
I’ve seen him play on both sides.
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Plus the Jets are ALREADY
11th in the league defending RE runs.
And opponents have run only 5% of their runs at RE, its not like this is some Achilles heel of the Jet defense that is going to change the game.
Also, why would Puaha be a better end technique guy than Ellis is? Do you honestly feel that Puaha will be better at defending himself from being sealed off, when Ellis defends against it all the time.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Oct 13, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Nobody ever said it was an Achilles heel that would change the game.
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The implication was that it was a Jet weakness that need to be addressed. If we don’t make this change there is going to be problem of some kind.
It actually looks like it could produce more problems than it would ever solve, especially given there is nothing that tells us that SP would even be better at outside runs than SE, and that opponents almost never outside run right against the Jets, and when they do we are pretty good against it.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Oct 13, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Well that was not the intended implication. The intended implication was this is a minor tweak that could make a small positive difference.
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okay.
In that case to me it would be taking away a place of dominance (inside runs) where most of Denver runs go, in order to make an experiment where runs seldom go. I still don’t understand why he would be better than Ellis on outside runs. It seems actually less the case. The guy is a beast, Ellis is fast and dexterous.
I see where you thinking was coming from, but I guess I disagree. I like the defense doing what it does best, with guys playing next to guys they have the most time with, in the positions they are most familiar with.
If there was some sort of crazy dominance, sure, maybe, but we are talking about 3 average runs a game.
"Sometimes it's the people. Any player can play defense, but not every player will play defense. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance." - A. Johnson
by kv on Oct 13, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
At the very least...
..you provoked a lively convo. I like the thought, if only because it creates the potential for mismatches at times. I think it might be better to do on obvious passing downs, to create chaos and blocking mismatches.
Tough crowd....
Come on guys, let’s at least be respectful.
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